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Forte: Pope Did Not Want to Speak “Plainly” Of Communion for Remarried

Archbishop Bruno Forte. Image courtesy of
Archbishop Bruno Forte. Image courtesy of

At a meeting to discuss the apostolic exhoration Amoris Laetitia, Archbishop Bruno Forte revealed new insights into the mind of Pope Francis on one of the most controversial issues facing the Church: communion for the divorced and “remarried.” Forte was the man personally chosen by Pope Francis as the Special Secretary for the synods on marriage and family, and he is widely believed responsible for the insertion of the explosive language pertaining to homosexuals in the 2014 Synod’s mid-term relatio.

During his presentation, the details of which were published on 3 May on the Italian news website,, Forte recalled certain discussions that were had during the Synod. The following is our (excerpted) translation with emphasis added:

“Not a new doctrine, but the merciful application of that ‘old wine’ that, as is known, is always the best.” Thus Monsignor Bruno Forte, archbishop of the diocese of Chieti-Vasto, during the encounter at the Teatro Rossetti on Pope Francis’ Apostolic Exhortation Amoris Laetitia, which has marked a fundamental passage with regard to the family, “between crisis and desire.” A crisis, on account of the facts related by the same Monsignor Forte, which see marriages diminishing and cohabitation increasing, but also the desire to see the family as the “womb and the school of humanity”…

In the reflection of Monsignor Forte: the causes of the “crisis of the family,” from lack of work to housing problems, the phenomenon of migration, to the difficulties attached to “material and human misery.” In this context, the sense of the apostolic exhortation of Pope Francis [is]: “Don’t judge, but reach out to all with the gaze of mercy, but without renouncing the Truth of God. It is easy to say, ‘that family has failed’; more difficult to help it not to fail. No one ought to feel themselves excluded from the Church.”

An approach that naturally has “practical” repercussions in the area of direct indications for pastors and the ecclesial community. Archbishop Forte has in fact revealed a “behind the scenes” [moment]  from the Synod: “If we speak explicitly about communion for the divorced and remarried,” said Archbishop Forte, reporting a joke of Pope Francis, “you do not know what a terrible mess we will make. So we won’t speak plainly, do it in a way that the premises are there, then I will draw out the conclusions.

“Typical of a Jesuit,” Abp Forte joked, attributing to that suggestion a wisdom that has allowed the maturation necessary to conclude that Amoris Laetitia, as Abp. Bruno Forte explained, does not represent a new doctrine, but the “merciful application” of that [the doctrine] of all time.

What is most important to note is the fact that Forte, by Francis’ personal choice and appointment Special Secretary to the Synod, is stating — publicly, and without apparent concern for consequence — that the Pope intentionally manipulated the synodal process — against the will of the Bishops –to get an outcome that he knew would not be otherwise acceptable.


(English translation provided by Roberto Tommaso. The original Italian of our excerpted translation follows):

“Non una nuova dottrina, ma l’applicazione misericordiosa di quel ‘vino vecchio’ che, come si sa, è sempre il più buono”. Così monsignor Bruno Forte, arcivescovo della diocesi Chieti-Vasto, durante l’incontro presso il Teatro Rossetti sull’Esortazione Apostolica di Papa Francesco “Amoris laetitia”, che ha segnato un passaggio fondamentale per quanto riguarda la famiglia, “tra crisi e desiderio”. Crisi, per quel dato rilevato dallo stesso monsignor Forte, per cui diminuiscono i matrimoni e aumentano le convivenze, ma anche desiderio di quella famiglia “grembo e scuola di umanità”…

Nella riflessione di monsignor Forte, le cause della “crisi della famiglia”, dalla mancanza di lavoro ai problemi abitativi, i fenomeni migratori, fino alle difficoltà legate alla “miseria materiale e umana”. In questo contesto, il senso dell’Esortazione Apostolica di Papa Francesco: “Non giudicare, ma raggiungere tutti con lo sguardo della misericordia, ma senza rinunciare alla Verità di Dio. È facile dire ‘quella famiglia è fallita’, più difficile aiutarla a non fallire. Nessuno deve sentirsi escluso dalla Chiesa”.

Un’impostazione che naturalmente ha anche ricadute “pratiche” nell’ambito delle indicazioni dirette ai pastori e alla comunità ecclesiale. Monsignor Forte ha infatti rivelato un particolare “retroscena” del Sinodo: “Se parliamo esplicitamente di comunione ai divorziati e risposati – ha riferito monsignor Forte riportando una battuta di Papa Francesco – questi non sai che casino che ci combinano. Allora non ne parliamo in modo diretto, fai in modo che ci siano le premesse, poi le conclusioni le trarrò io”.

“Tipico di un gesuita” ha scherzato monsignor Forte, attribuendo a quella indicazione una saggezza che ha permesso la maturazione necessaria per giungere alla “Amoris laetitia” che, come precisato da monsignor Bruno Forte, non rappresenta una nuova dottrina, ma “l’applicazione misericordiosa” di quella di sempre.

*Our translator, who provides Italian-to-English translations for the Church in Italy, offers us his work under this pseudonym.

134 thoughts on “Forte: Pope Did Not Want to Speak “Plainly” Of Communion for Remarried”

  1. He is just reiterating what we knew all along. This Papacy is a sham and if PF is going against his Cardinals & Bishops there is only one way forward, i.e. they must call an immediate Council rejecting AL, requesting it to be rescinded & asking for PF’s resignation forthwith.

    • Dear Ana – They must but they won’t. Their courage has gone, their fire has been extinguished. They have turned into chickens! And everyone knows that chickens cannot mind sheep!

      • They are duplicitous. They speak as if nothing has been altered, treating us like numbskulls, while at the same time upholding not only this document but the constant heresies being foisted upon us followed by inane explanations as to what PF REALLY meant to say. Would any President or company CEO keep their jobs if they couldn’t coherently express themselves and were unable to uphold & promote the integrity of the product & the company itself? Obviously no, but when that product is Jesus Christ Himself & promotion means evangelisation of ALL nations, apparently such a task is beyond them, so why are they still in situ?

        False obedience to a Papacy that has gone completely off the rails is not what is required here. Those members of the priesthood still loyal to Christ & His Magisterium MUST come forward and work with the laity who have had more than enough of this Modernist experiment and call for a return to Tradition. SSPX & Traditional Orders please move yourselves!

      • We always think that only liberals betray the Church but the conservative bishops harm the Church too. Conservative bishops are crippeled by cowardice and they rather let the entire Catholic Church crumble than restisting the Pope .Forget all conservative Bishops the battle was lost in the synode were the conservative Bishops were too coward, too submissive and too comfortable to stop the Pope and his assault on Catholicism when they had the chance. The conservative Cardinals sold the Catholic teaching for a mess of pottage, for a fake and worthless unity instead to stand up and to defend and to protect the teaching against Francis and his liberal heretics. The problem of all conservative Cardinals is cowardice and the obsession with not criticize the Pope and the fear of losing their rank. Conservative Bishops are big on talking, whining, expressing their concerns but not on acting and doing what is right. They refuse to defend the teachings against Pope Francis that wants to destroy them. In the synode they made common cause with heretics. The conservative bishops and cardinals certainly can’t wash their hands in innocence that the worst imaginable scenario has occurred.

  2. This morning I was thinking of writings of some good popes who wrote about such things as the social Kingship of Christ, Against Modernism, the Mother of God, St. Joseph, on Suffering, the Splendor of Truth, the Sanctity of Life, on Holy Matrimony and other holy topics. I thought of the writings of our present pontiff on climate change and against matrimony. There is no comparison.

  3. So, to recap:

    Four weeks after AL‘s release,

    * Burke is saying it’s not magisterial, but rather simply Francis’s 256-page “opinion”, while virtually everyone else is claiming the document is magisterial to one degree or another;

    * Schneider stands virtually alone in calling attention to the serious flaws in AL, and has almost certainly guaranteed himself a one-way ticket to the most remote posting Francis can find (Antarctica?);

    * Kasper’s running around like a child on Christmas morning claiming that everything has changed;

    * Forte’s laughing his a** off about how Francis is just being a “typical Jesuit” and sneaking in the result he wanted all along but could only obtain by manipulating the synodal process and using the vaguest, most ambiguous language known to man;

    * And now even some of the most stalwart defenders of the post-Conciliar Church are beginning to wake up and realize that something has gone terribly, terribly wrong when this much confusion, misdirection, and angst is allowed to fester day after day without a word of clarity from the Pontiff himself, leading some to acknowledge that maybe, just maybe, this entire atmosphere was intended all along.

    How anyone at this point can claim that AL is a good thing, or even contains elements of good is laughable. Recall all copies, burn them down to ash, and then scatter them to the four corners of the earth; then, and only then, will we have a chance of undoing the damage caused by this whole fiasco.

    • Good grief! Schneider is already an Aux Bishop of a small diocese (and Bishop of a dead one) in Kazakhstan. I’m not sure he could be made further remote.



    • Recall the copies? More and more the only solution to the slide down the gurgler is to recall the writer.

      • Arroyo, for starters, to the extent that he as at least acknowledged that AL isn’t all roses and smiling kittens; I thought his show on the matter was well presented, especially with Fr. Gerald Murray flat-out admitting that, as a canon lawyer, he could not square AL with previous pontifical writings.

        I was also pleasantly surprised to see Crisis publish Schneider’s analysis, as well. Is it enough to make way against the monolith that is the neo-Catholic establishment? Probably not, but at least individual voices are beginning to voice their concerns, whereas previously everything Francis said was automatically treated as if it was de facto infallible.

        • I saw that EWTN show. I was surprised that the remarks were made in such a clear manner. Isn’t it just unbelievable that a person’s reaction is surprise??

          I almost don’t know what to say anymore. I’ve never been too comfortable when some people are so upset and angry that they just lash out with over-the-top invective. I understand how one can do it, though.

          I’ve never thought of myself as a person who runs away from bad things. I’ve stood right in the face of a crazy, strong young man who could have crushed me with one blow. I’ve dealt with awful, horrible problems with my kids and physical health. But in this case, what’s happening in our Church, I sometimes just do want to run away from it all. I have to take it in small doses because to me the big picture is devastating.

          Every day I pray…every single day. Yesterday I saw this quote, supposedly from a Father Frederick William Faber (1800’s):
          “There will be hardly any Mass offered and the majority of Christians will apostatize in the last age of the Church.”

    • “Recall all copies, burn them down to ash, and then scatter them to the four corners of the earth”

      Indeed. Along with sixteen other intentionally vague documents from about 50 years ago. Such tactics have already been used to undermine everything else in the Church. Sexual morality is just the last in a long line of dominoes.

    • You would have to ask to Monsignor Bernard Fellay why he praised some aspects of “Amoris Laetitia”. “It is very long and contains many things that are right, that they are beautiful, and after building a beautiful building, a beautiful boat, the Supreme Pontiff has made a hole in the keel of the boat, along the waterline.” I understand why he says that.

    • Even better – disinter the Popes who presided over this abortion of the Church, cancel whatever in their teaching was false, burn their remains, and scatter the ashes to the winds of heaven. To criticise Francis while praising Paul VI and JP2 is relativism run mad. Those two did far more to devastate the Church than Francis has.

      The ambiguities in V2 far outdo anything in AL – so where are the calls for those Popes to be criticised ? Where are the calls for V2 to be withdrawn ? Or is consistency not important these days ?

  4. Always thanks for your thoroughness, as in providing the Italian text. Such makes 1P5 a record of note, let alone a full and accurate archive of our sad and torturous journey down this Franciscan road twisting & turning in all sorts of Jesuitical ways.

    [When funds permit will donate. Live in California’s Mother Lode in a trailer house with a leaky roof in this El Nino season of ours. Need to replace substructure and tiles.]

  5. A modernist glories in his underhanded modernist tactics – publicly – and admits the pope was the instigator in this cabal. Openly. Cheerfully. Proudly. Is not now the dark work sufficiently unmasked? Will our bishops continue to equivocate and make excuses for evil? Are they not just complacent and timid but rather sharers of this guilt? It is outrageous that the laity take the lead in defending orthodoxy while our prelates cower behind the robes of the jolly tyrant Collegiality while fearing the very real universal ordinary jurisdiction of a Roman Pontiff who wields his power – while deprecating it (!) in word and action – in order to destroy the papacy and the doctrinal edifice of the Church. He pretends humility but radiates hubris, revelling in destruction. How long must this go on before the Lord Himself take the matter in hand? If that day come, woe to us all in the measure we have failed to defend Him and His Church.

    • “It is outrageous that the laity take the lead”………..this is exactly what Bishop Sheen prophesied many moons ago. That the LAITY were the ones to, in essence ‘save the Church’. It will be up to US!

    • Yes, I also think this is form of domination by Forte. He wants people to know that his side is beating us and there is nothing you can do about it.

      • Of course his side is beating us. God did allow the devil free reign. But the game is not over yet and Christ has triumphed.

    • He exhibits great contempt for those who hold to the true Faith, as we have seen again and again. He is the Great Manipulator who is getting bolder and bolder in what he says an does because his underlings (bishops and priests) are too frightened to stand up to him. To do so would mean a veritable martyrdom, and most are not prepared to enter into that–as of yet. Let us pray hard for bishops and priests, because eventually , like the rest of us, they are going to have to make a choice, and, on a human level. they have the most to lose.

  6. “So we won’t speak plainly, do it in a way that the premises are there, then I will draw out the conclusions.”
    ‘Do it.’ Well, there it is. Hearsay, yes, but plain enough for me.

  7. “If we speak explicitly about communion for the divorced and remarried,” said Archbishop Forte, reporting a joke of Pope Francis, “you do not know what a terrible mess we will make. So we won’t speak plainly, do it in a way that the premises are there, then I will draw out the conclusions.”

    I thought that the Holy Father wanted a mess to be made? Wasn’t that the big push at World Youth Day in South America?

    Of course, by speaking ambiguously about the Eternal Truth he is making far more of a mess than if he had spoken clearly. Ambiguity surrounding the Sacraments of Marriage, The Blessed Sacrament, Penance and regarding the 6th commandment are not a sign of Mercy or of the Love of God or the Love of Neighbor, they are the sign of deception…

      • Pray, do penance, grow in Faith, Hope and Love. Study the Faith. Proclaim the Gospel in sincerity and truth, continue to petition the Parish, the Bishop and the Pope to proclaim the Gospel without compromise. And beseech the Lord to save His people day in and day out. Never give up, never tire of doing the Good and never despair of the Lord’s fidelity.

        • Tell that to the hirelings, wolves, apostates, liberals, cowards, liars, heretics, indifferentists and other devils in the clergy. They are the criminals – we laity are the victims. They are “false teachers, clouds without water, whose end is destruction”.

      • Pray very hard for your priests. They will be doing battle on the front lines, more than we can imagine. We need them so! So pray for them, and let them know you are with them!

    • The first paragraph of your comment, wherein you quote from this article, is, and has been from the beginning of his pontificate, the modus operandi of Bergoglio. He sows discord through his crafty ability to weave non –truths into Truth, and to deceive through ambiguous phraseology. The comments of Forte quoted above show that this evil prelate at the top knows what he is doing….’so we won’t speak plainly, do it in a way that the premises are there, then I will draw out the conclusions.’ This same deceptive modus operandi will be obvious again and again until Bergoglio has succeeded in destroying the true Church and Her Sacraments and Mass. She will be forced underground while this prancing devil will run the new world order church. This Is already plain to see. How we waste our time brooding over ‘what the Holy Father is really trying to say.’ We are being betrayed and manipulated. Let us draw very close to Jesus and Mary and pray very hard for souls who are being deceived and misled.

    • Well we all know that he’s doing very well with the mess making. And intends to keep making it so why not advise people to keep making messes as well.

      As for not speaking plainly, is that the trade mark of the serpent?

  8. Can’t speak for the Pope, or even Bruno Forte, when it comes to speaking out, but I am quite happy to speak clearly on the question of Holy Communion for those in objective mortal sin, of any kind .

    Such people are fully part of the Church and can be on the parish council and the church cleaning committee, if they wish.

    However, they may not receive Ho;y Communion unless they have confessed mentioning each
    mortal sin since their last Confession, with a true resolve not to commit such sins again, and have said their penance.

    And remember that applies to all objective mortal sins, including adultery for those who are already married in a valid marriage,which comes within Lust, and not just Gluttony and Wrath and so on!

    • Sorry, but if they are living in an objective state of sin they are not to be on the Parish Council either, members of the parish council are to live and exemplary Christian Life. This is why public sinners cannot be Godparents or Sponsors, or Lectors or Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion. Its called scandal.

      • Why not? I guess about 50% of those who troop up to Holy Communion, week after week, and that includes casual Mass attenders, contraceptors, the Wrathfull, the Proud, readers, lay distributors, and so on. Some are certainly on the cleaning committee and /or parish council.

        Now I’m not disagreeing with you but perhaps you should have a word with our parish priest first. On second thoughts, don’t. You will just embarrass even more.

        By the way we do have heretics on the parish council, but Protestant so therefore Objective Heretics. I suppose that’s OK?

          • Partly. I would rather call it tongue in cheek.

            Now facts.

            Attendance at Mass – varies from 120 (Christmas) to 80 (average) to 60 Attendanceat Holy Communion – 99.90%
            Attendance at Confession – well we don’t have any
            Average reproduction – rate circa 1.7 (that is my estimate )
            young single males at Mass – 2
            young single females at Mass – 2
            Females in choir and other functions – 90%
            Protestants Parish Council – I ( that I know of)
            Any hint of doctrine in sermons – 0
            Future of parish – ?

            However, we must keep smiling must we not?

            Now Father, how does that compare with your parish?

          • I presume that you attend Mass at a rural parish? I am pastor at a Rural parish as well. We have about 120 families at one parish and about 38 at the other, which equals to about 180 in attendance at the one and about 65 in attendance at the other on the average Sunday (Christmas and Easter are more but that is mostly to people coming home to visit family.)

            I have confession 7 times a week and probably average hearing between 10 and 15 confessions per week.

            Holy communion is about 80% of attendees.

            Most families have about 3 children per family some more ( a couple a lot more) some less.

            Young single males at mass about over the age of 18, 4 or 5 (about 15 away at college) roughly the same for females.

            About 25 high age and about 40 grade school age.

            Females mostly for the choir, one male organist. All male servers, all male Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion, though mostly not used as they are not needed. About 80% Male lectors.

            Zero protestants on the council.

            Doctrine is the norm in the homily (this Sunday I preached on why it’s ridiculous for the Ascension to be moved to Sunday and how this demeans our Lord, the Church and the people.)

            Future of the Parish=?

            And no, we need not smile when our parish is dying and the priest is injecting her with morphine to ease the pain.

          • Father,
            I attend Mass most Sundays at a city centre artisanal/middle class parish in UK. Also, Confession regularly but under another arrangement. Holy Communion frequently but not always, that is not out of “routine or vain glory, or human respect but for the purpose of pleasing God” (Quam Singulari, Pius X).
            As a retired scientist and life long amateur ornithologist I cannot help but observe and count. My estimate of the reproduction rate amongst the quite numerous middle aged stressed pre/menopausal mums who bring their children up to about the age of sixteen (1.7 ) is reasonably accurate . On that basis alone the parish will die out, but these children simply do not come above the age of say sixteen!
            Occasionally I get to a Gregorian Mass. Congregation 50 and holding. The ” Oldies” declining steadily. Therefore “Youngies” increasing. Children circa 8. Young Male/young female ratio about 3/2, that is roughly young males 20, young females 12 . There is a future here!

            My conclusion Father is that the future of the Church lies in the liturgy and in a return to the Gregorian Mass.
            God bless!

          • If I may Fr. RP; don’t worry about numbers in your parish, ( which I know is not your main concern).
            You just be a priest for Christ first, and let Him do the rest.
            Your faithful flock will truly need you more than ever.

  9. No big revelation. I think the pope is very transparent. Although, at this point, I hate to say it, I don’t think he would see much resistance from the “neo-Catholics” even if he explicitly, unequivocally contradicted Church doctrine. They would make up some other excuse or spin.

    • This is true. But………think of the ‘false catechesis’ that has been ongoing in the Church these people have been brought up in for the last 50 years. They have been ingrained with falsities. I compare it with protestants, a fair number who have no idea what Catholicism is all about. Their entire world is ‘protestant’.

    • That is what they have done in the past. They did not rebuke or correct JP2. Why would they rebuke or correct Francis ? Too many Catholics seem to think that anything, no matter how anti-Catholic, must be true if the Pope says it. They make Popes into little gods, outside whom there is no standard of truth whatever. Who needs God, when some Catholics make an idol of the Popes ? That’s not Catholicism – that is idol-worship.

  10. “La justice sans la miséricorde c’est de la cruauté mais la miséricorde sans la justice aboutit à la dissolution”-Saint Thomas d’A’quin a déjà répondu il y a sept siècles!

    • St. Thomas d’Aquin a déjà répondu à beaucoup plus de questions que celui-ci. À un certain moment — sur l’échéancier divin, mais j’espère bientôt — l’Église va se débarrasser de ces absurdités moderniste et revenir à la philosophie de St. Thomas.

  11. This makes me ill. Forte and Kasper are so blindly arrogant that they have no qualms about telling us these things that should make them blush with embarrassment. I tried to think of a scenario in my own life of conscience. If I premeditatedly planned to deceive a great number of people about a gravely serious situation that could alter the way the faithful behaved that would cause sacrilege and I knew that it would cause a scandal to the faithful, I would be committing a mortal sin and a sacrilege and would be in the confessional lineup stat!
    That Forte speaks about their purposeful premeditated deception in such a casual and humorous tone speaks to their darkened consciences . They are saying “We think this is good for the church and we don’t care what you fundamentalists say…we are right. No docility, no humility, no continuity, no authentic collegiality only arrogant self will run riot. What a disgrace Forte’s words are. And Francis? My heart aches. Now we know. They are like prison inmates who crave to tell anybody about their evil plots.

    • There is no need to feel ill. God is at the helm. He does allow the devil free reign but we must remember that it is still a permission by God.
      We just must speak the truth where needed and explain to those who know what we write here.
      I sometimes feel like we are preaching to the converted here but it is good to see each other’s take and I must say there is much brilliant commentaries from folks on this blog.
      But at the end of the day, what we read here we must share with those who don’t read orthodox commentaries.
      It really does fall on us to evangelize – and sadly that will include having to evangelize clergy ourselves.

    • It is similar to the 28 pages of the 9/11 “report”.
      It has been known for a while, to all those, who didn’t prefer to remain untouched by what they knew would wake them up, that we have been lied to about what really happened on 9/11.
      Some congressmen who read the 28 pages have been claiming for years, that it changed completely the beliefs they previously held about the world we live in. Of course, the pages reveal very little, and of course, they are being talked about at this particular moment by no accident.

      Yet there is no revolution!!! The 28 pages that reveal almost nothing are still kept from the public, while Saudi Arabia threatens repercussions, should they be revealed.
      It is an obvious psychological operation on us.

      I think that Forte’s revelation was pre-planned.
      “They” know, that as with the 28 pages, we will do nothing with the revelations about Bergoglio’s machinations. We knew about them even from M. Voris’ reporting (and then promptly apologizing for honest reporting) from the Synod.

      I mean – WE KNEW. And yet, when AL came, many acted surprised. We knew it was by Bergoglio’s order that the rejected statements of the Synod Fathers were included in the final report. We knew what it meant. We knew Bergogio was already allowing Communion for the divorced and remarried in Argentina.

      We know he hires eugenicists and strong pro-abortionists to advise him. We know he respects China with a respect that starts with a capital R, while Catholic priests in China are persecuted (would any one of us like it, if our friend/father got all friendly with those who persecute us?). We know he laughs and jokes with the likes of Obama and Merkel, while he bashes faithful Catholics.

      This all means something.

      We have been successfully conditioned to accept evil, to act as though it is the norm. We get all obsessed with small details, when the horrible reality all around us doesn’t stir us to action.

      The little footnote in AL was insignificant in comparison to all the things Bergoglio said and did from the beginning of his pontificate and before. His Jesuit shrewdness, a complete lack of honesty and respect for the sheep (whose smell he so enjoys) is tolerated every day, by sheep, cardinals and theologians alike. The man Bergoglio is a manipulator and a traitor. And we all accepted it is a norm, and keep acting as though what he says and does is worthy of our respectful consideration. – It is worthy of a garbage bin.

      What I am saying is this: People, we are part of the problem.WE HAVE BEEN CONDITIONED TO ACCEPT THE UNACCEPTABLE. There is nothing noble about tolerating evil. Evil doesn’t play by our rules. We are the servants of Jesus first, and only as His servants first we serve men.

      One more thing:
      The way to enslave is, according to Critical Theory, through changing the language.
      We should NOT accept the garbage written in Orwellian for consideration. Our Lord Jesus said: Say yes for yes, no for no. Why are we disobeying God!? Why are we agreeing to this game played by psychopaths by their sick rules?

      The horrible injustice against Truth, against the Church and against humanity is being tolerated, because psychopaths are calling it mercy. A “language event” indeed.

      • An addition regarding “plain talk”.
        Plain talk is rejected not only by progressives, but also by so called Trads, as though it is embarrassing, a sign of backwardness, lack of… education. In the world where LOGOS is rejected as oppressive, where reason and logic are replaced by feelings and outlawed as “hate speech”, there is no place for Truth. Truth is expressed by plain talk best.
        I assure you, my plain talk doesn’t embarrass me. If it does in your eyes, it means that you have adopted the enemy’s language, the very means of oppression against Truth, Church and humanity.

  12. Steve, I am re-reading the lines of Forte. Are they all his words or is he repeating Francis’ words?

    • He is telling us what he remembers Francis saying to him.

      Our report is mostly just a translation of what was reported by those present at his talk in Italy. I don’t know more.

      • Is anyone really doubting that Bergoglio said what Forte is relaying? Remember, Forte is an ally of Francis. Stupidly, Forte thinks this is admirable behavior and wants to share it. He does not see that he is exposing the evil of PF. I am not the least bit surprised that PF would speak in this way. It is what he has done all along. He is dumb like a fox–or a devil.

  13. This is another indication that we are in the self-destructive end-phase of the Papacy and Roman Catholicism. The present Vatican, including the Pope, is nothing but a bunch of liars, misleaders, destroyers, evil clowns and faggots completely unworthy of their office and only good to be thrown into the Tiber.

    • Pope Francis doesn’t talk about Christianity but about the Human family and God as their father. He also said to Muslims that Christians and Muslims are brothers with the same father in heaven, that Muslims are beloved children of God and that Islam and Christianity have more common ground than differences. So according to the Pope rejecting Christ as the Son of God, rejecting the trinity, the death and resurrection of Christ like Muslims do is not a big deal. Christ is betrayed by the Pope and the Church yet many conservative Catholics fanatically condemn everybody that dares to question and criticize Francis. It seems that Francis is taking a big step toward the one-world religion.

  14. These men are blind drunk on narcissism and fraudulent notions wrapped in bad poetics. It is revolting to watch grown men engage the gross realities of life with the snake oil of pink cotton candy. They regard us as stupid, mindless groundlings.

  15. Mr. Skojec:

    Thank you for the article. There is a possibility that the good Archbishop Forte either a) heard but misunderstood Holy Father Francis; b) misheard the Holy Father or c) is lying.

    In any case Christ’s teachings regarding the marriage bond are, I think, more than clear.

    God bless

    Richard W Comerford

    • Richard, none of those scenarios are plausible, and you know it.

      But if he has gotten this wrong, it’s in the press now; the Holy Father has an obligation to correct it. If he does not, we may safely assume he agrees with the facts as presented.

      • Mr. Skojec:

        Thank you for your reply. You posted in part: “Richard, none of those scenarios are plausible, and you know it.”

        No. Sorry. I do not know it. And I have, sir, several more decades of experience in these matters than you do.

        You call me a liar. Accuse me of breaking the Commandment. And you do so in a public forum. Your forum. You could have e-mailed me in private. How are you going to win souls for Christ with an attitude like that?

        You may not have noticed but I have spent a fair amount of time over the last two weeks defending your work on other Catholic blogs. I was happy to do it. I am glad I had the opportunity. But I cannot defend your casual, dismissive arrogance. And said arrogance pops up, with increasing frequency, from time to time. Kindly reflect upon the great and terrible responsibility you have taken upon yourself by starting and maintaining this blog.

        I leave. Not to return. I will make a pilgrimage for your intentions.

        God bless

        Richard W Comerford

          • Didn’t Our Lord say something like: ‘by your love for one another they will know you?” Mr. Comerford has expressed his opinion, and Steve has responded. Why do you have to be so unkind? There might be something in the opinion of those in Novus Ordo land – that trads are not very nice people.

        • Richard,

          “Decades of experience” do not, unfortunately, equate to rightness. If that were so, Cardinal Kasper would be trustworthy.

          I’m not calling you a liar, so let’s not be overly dramatic. I’m saying that you’re trying to look for an answer that exonerates the pope against overwhelming evidence to the contrary. The one scenario you seem unwilling to entertain is the very one presented by this friend and trusted colleague of the pope as his true opinion.

          Perhaps, if you were to allow yourself some self reflection rather than indignance, you might see why this appears to me a delusion on your part?

          Arrogance is always a risk when one is right about unpopular things and often attacked for it. I admit a temptation at times to push back too hard. I appreciate your defenses of me, and your prayers that I remain humble before the work which God has entrusted to me.

        • Richard, I don’t think Steve was calling you a liar nor is he being arrogant.

          Is it not arrogance on your part as well to claim to know better because you have been around longer, without even proposing any support for your claims?

          If you take a microscope to all the happenings since this Papacy and since the last two synods, you will realize that the options you gave are more wishful thinking than a reflection of reality.

          Forte is a close ally of the Pope. He is in the same group as Kasper and

          Daneels and Schonborn. From day dot they have been all rather chummy with the Pope praising the work of Kasper to high heavens and saying that Schonborn pretty much sums up what he wanted to say.

          The problem is: the pronouncements of these men are contrary to what the Church teaches.
          And if you claim as you do that you have been around longer and have studied these things, then how can you be oblivious to these facts? to this reality?

        • So, you maintain that Forte concocted the entire conversation, lyingly put in Francis’s mouth words he never said, and that he did so publicly and openly without fear of contradiction by Francis, who simply accepts in silence this egregious falsehood about what he said to Forte?

          I think that qualifies as self-delusion.

      • If you keep twiddling your thumbs while you wait for the clarification you will develop arthritis and horrific thumb sores.

    • Let’s get real and stop making nice when the truth is already apparent. Forte did not ‘misunderstand’ the pope. He did not ‘mishear’ him. He would not ‘lie’ about his ally’s intentions. Forte’s words explain as clearly as anything could, what went on with the creation of AL. By the fruit the tree is known. There is not, nor will there be, a retraction of AL by Bergoglio, nor an orthodox interpretation from Rome of this horrific document. It is intended to do just what Forte says the pope wants it to do. Indeed. let us not keep stalling when the truth of what is happening is so very clear.

      • Mr. 3221:

        Thank you for your reply. ” Forte did not ‘misunderstand’ the pope. He did not ‘mishear’ him. He would not ‘lie’ about his ally’s intentions.”

        And you know this how?

        and in part: “Forte’s words explain as clearly as anything could, what went on with the creation of AL”

        You mean his words, a verbal presentation, which may or may not have been recorded, which were then reported in Italian; and then may or may not have been properly translated into English? You mean those words?

        and in part: ” By the fruit the tree is known”

        And some Saints labored all there lives and never lived to see the fruits of their labors.

        and in part: “There is not, nor will there be, a retraction of AL by Bergoglio, nor an
        orthodox interpretation from Rome of this horrific document”

        You know the future? You are a prophet?.

        “It is intended to do just what Forte says the pope wants it to do.”

        I am not quiet sure what Holy Father wants. Nor am I confident that Archbishop Forte knows what the Pope to wants.

        and in part: “let us not keep stalling when the truth of what is happening is so very clear.”

        Stalling? We have somewhere to go? Christ has spoken. There is no reason for debate. There is no place to go. Stand firm in Christ.

        • Your last paragraph indicates why you are so resistant to facing the reality of what is happening in the Church. The Church is only where the fullness of the Faith is held. Most likely the Church will go underground and the Roman institution will be a false new world church. It is your inability to comprehend this reality, which is surely coming, and which has been predicted again and again, that has caused your resistance to what is happening right before your eyes.
          What Forte stated is exactly what is happening in the Church. I do not need ‘to prove it’ as it is already occurring. There is no need to keep musing uselessly whether or not the translation of what Forte said is faulty because it is plain to see that what Forte stated Bergoglio said is already occurring. You are stymied by thinking that the Church needs the institutional structure of Rome in order to be the Church. That is why you say, ‘We have somewhere to go?’ As Deitrich von Hildebrand stated, ‘If two old women are in a cave holding to the true Faith in its fullness, there is the Church.’ That is where we maybe will need to go. We follow the fullness of the Faith, and that may mean going underground. It may mean separating form a corrupt structure (I mean Rome). Please don’t write me back and tell me ‘That will never happen.’ It is already beginning and there is no need to ‘wait and see’ if Forte’s words are accurate. It is already happening. Wake up.
          Bergoglio is not going to correct AL nor interpret it for us in an orthodox way. He is not going to do that because what is occurring in the Church is exactly what he intends: the confusion, the ambiguity, the separation of doctrine from practice, etc. If you cannot see that all this is already happening you are deep in denial of the reality of the crisis through which we are all living. Not only that, Bergoglio and his minions are just getting started. He will trash the Holy Eucharist and the Mass. He will twist and corrupt every doctrine of the Catholic treasury of grace and replace it with a false humanistic ‘big tent ‘ of falsehoods devoid of supernatural content. Are you going to ask me to prove it? Can you not see the trajectory that is already in operation? Wake up.

        • There have been a few ‘statements’ from those closest to Pope Francis that indicate dissent, can we forget Cdl. Kasper? If the Pope wanted true orthodoxy, he wouldn’t come forth and proclaim these men had it all wrong? We have heard nothing but crickets chirping. Is he blind deaf and dumb to what those closest around him are saying to the press? Or maybe he should denounce the press for spinning and falsifying their statements? We hear nothing yet. Every Pope until now has somehow been able to publicly correct ‘misinformation’ or ‘misinterpretation’ of his intentions. So far, anyway, the silence is deafening.

        • We traditionalists are trying to stand firm against all the odds. Statements made by those closest to the Pope and not denied by him must be accepted as being true, and the fact that they are contrary to what the CC has taught as Truth for nigh 2,000 years makes it necessary for vigilant Catholics to draw attention to them in the hope they will be dealt with appropriately.

          Don’t forget that Cardinal Kasper’s denials of remarks he made against African Bishops were proven to be false. Also, his denial that he said PF was in favour of Holy Communion for the divorced & remarried was also outed in a recorded interview by prominent Catholic reporter Edward Pentin.

        • I don’t know you Mr. Comerfold, and the pattern of your comments, but isn’t it obvious that the whole production of the two synods on the family, the church wide questionnaire, the papal homilies, audiences, and new media interviews and press conferences, the apostolic exhortation, and the jubilee year of mercy have all been orchestrated to a pre-determined end to sell what the Pope always wanted to sell to the church and the world? The Forte revelation fits in perfectly. You guys lay out the premises and I will draw the conclusions. The whole process has been methodical manipulation from start to finish, a public relations campaign of slick marketing. And just wait for the Jubilee Year of Mercy World Youth Day in July. It’s all underhanded but well done.

          • Mike, we have been going through this for some time and I always enjoy reading your comments. Don’t you think that faithful Catholics are a bit like those with post traumatic stress disorder? We , of course did not want to believe what we were seeing and hearing. We were all in shock, then (disbelief) denial, then anger, then depression, then bargaining with God and then acceptance and jumping in and out of all these stages over and over again. Yes we have all been traumatized. There is an excellent piece on Rorate Caeli by the Italian historian Mattei. It is long but very worth the read. God bless!

          • Thanks for your comments. I did read the Mattei piece. I love it when a historian has the real facts and puts everything into perspective. I don’t mind admitting I have been traumatized and stressed by the Bergoglio papacy and his colleagues. We are now all saying what was once censored on some sites, that the Pope is a Modernist heretic. That might be an easy term to throw around but if you study the Modernist heresy back to the days of Alfred Loisy and others and how Pope Pius X tried to stop it you see the same theological principles from the Modernists as in Pope Francis’s speeches and writings, now even official Catholic Church writings. It is a very hard thing to lose respect for the leaders of your church. I don’t mean diminished respect for the leadership, but completely lose respect. The College of Cardinals and the Bishops don’t seem to know what to do about the phenomenon of a Pope who is a Modernist heretic and are doing and saying nothing for the most part. Maybe they are just waiting for the chance to replace him.

          • I still believe that we are called to pray, as the Blessed Mother tells us to, in docility and humility and offer up sacrifices for Francis and remain assured that the Lord is with us. The Mattei piece actually made me feel heartened. It has been a long hard slog this 2000 years but when one sees the picture in hindsight over those years one can actually see the finger of God at work in spite of all those that tore at the Mystical Body. Those that oppose God will have to answer for their opposition. that is indeed a frightening thing.

        • Dear Richard. ALL of this has been well-documented by Steve and others and they have linked to the official documents and yet you cavil in willing blindness.

          The Pope says on a Monday, ONE
          The Pope says on a Tuesday, ONE
          The Pope says on a Wednesday ONE
          Cardinal Kasper says on Thursday the Pope said ONE
          Archbishop Forte on Friday says the Pope said, ONE
          Civilita Cattolica on Saturday says the Pope said ONE
          Sunday, on an airplane, the Pope said, ONE

          and you appear to tell the world that it all adds up to 0

          Willful blindness and the denial of reality are not gifts of the Holy Ghost.

        • Dear Richard. You cavil in willing blindness.

          ALL of what Steve and others have been saying is not only accurate, all of his, and their, posts are linked.

          Franciscus on Monday says, ONE
          Franciscus on Tuesday says, ONE
          Kasper on Wednesday says Franciscus said, ONE
          Archbishop Forte on Thursday says Franciscus said, ONE
          Civilita Cattolica on Friday says Franciscus said, ONE
          Bishop Schneider takes Franciscus to task on Saturday for saying, ONE
          In his Sunday sermon, Franciscus says, ONE

          And you arrive here to tell the world it all adds up to 0

          Willful blindness and the denial of reality are not gifts of the Holy Ghost.

        • Since 3 years always the same boring lame excuse and knee- jerk
          reaction of Catholics that are in denial about Francis.
          This Pope is very consistent in causing confusion, division and chaos.
          Francis is also very clear and consistent when it comes to attack and
          blast faithful Catholics that uphold the teachings by calling them
          rigid, hostile inflexible stone throwing pharisees. He is a Jesuit that hides
          behind cloudy, vague and ambiguous language for not showing his true
          colours. He is too smart to openly dismiss the Catholic teachings.
          However all his handpicked, promoted and elavated liberal herectical bishops
          reflect and represent what he really thinks. Francis allows liberal
          bishops to seduce and deceive the believers and says and does things
          that undermine the Catholic faith. It’s time to face reality.

        • Forte was elevated and handpicked by the Pope that is well informed about all cardinals and their views and ideas . Francis promoted and supported Cardinal Kasper. He surrounded himself with liberal heretical bishops because he agrees with them, this is not rocket science. Stop trying to fool others by pretending to be stupid, blind and deaf.

    • Surely Pope Francis will clarify Archbishop’s “misunderstanding” and I’ve got a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn.
      Its painful but we have to take off the blinders. There are a bunch of guys up to no-good, enjoying every minute of it and they regard us as fools.

  16. These men will have to answer to the King soon… They have much to answer for… Mr. Bergoglio is a true Modernist…

    You know who loves messes, disorder and disorientation… Satan!

  17. I like it that Archbishop Forte is supplying evidence for the condemnation of AL. At the same time one can muster some sympathy for Pope Francis’ desire to keep folks with “innovative” family arrangements in the Church. Perhaps a good start would for the Church to remind folks of some basic truths like sin and salvation and heaven and hell. But this is precisely the problem as many in the hierarchy no longer believe in the basic teaching of Christ or for that matter in who Christ is.

    • Michael – I think it is not a question of “belief” – the sad fact is that many in the
      hierarchy do not “know” Christ nor His basic teaching. They are ignorant and
      are therefore the blind leading the blind and we know their final destination –
      the ditch!

  18. It is easy to say, ‘that family has failed’

    What absolute rubbish. The family did not fail. The husband or wife or both sinned!
    What wolves we have for shepherds!
    This kind of cunning is worthy only of the father of lies.

    • Equally egregious is their “merciful” expression, “when love fails…”

      It’s positively revolting. How that which calls a man and a woman to sacrifice themselves for the sake of their spouse’s happiness (i.e. love) could be said to cause a marriage “to fail”; and how this “failure” could then be said to constitute grounds (i.e. diminished culpability) sufficient to exonerate a couple, both of their civil divorce and subsequent adulterous relationships, is the worst sort of hubris imaginable.

      Love doesn’t fail. Men and women fail. And when they do there are consequences that cannot just be waived away under the pretense of “mercy”.

  19. Archbishop Forte is a Heretic. His little fifteen minutes of fame as Secretary of the Synod on the Family and his desires for the Divorced and Remarried to receive the Eucharist. It’s obvious this Archbishop does not believe in the absolute Truths of the Catholic Church. Like so many other Priests and Bishops of his anti-Catholic breed he is what St. Paul describes as a Reprobate. Archbishop Forte in his wickedness rejects the known Truth about Adultery. It obvious that Archbishop Forte rejects the fact that Christ is present in Body and Blood of the Holy Eucharist. If this Archbishop believed he would be defending the Eucharist from Sacrilege not encouraging Sacrilegious acts against the Church. St. Paul in his letter to St. Timothy said, ” Having an outward appearance of Holiness but disowning it’s power so these men resist the Truth for their corrupted minds are Reprobate as regards to the Faith.” Unquote. St. Paul inspired by the Holy Ghost.

  20. The confusion over what the Vatican is saying and Pope francis is saying is creating a dense fog. Now is there any confusion contained in pre-Vatican II encyclicals? Their meaning is quite plain. It appears to me, sad to say, that this confusion is an deliberate attempt at deceit, and goes beyond merely muddled writing.

    Yes and the pictures of high ranking Catholic prelates who lived before Vatican II often reflected serious concerns whereas today’s high ranking prelates’ exhibit the beaming faces that politicians are wont to officially circulate. I would say today anyone recognizing the state the Church is in today would reflect serious concern.

  21. Pope Francis’ love for those on the margins and beyond is great. He sees many who are (in the world’s eyes) ugly and desperately poor. I really believe he is moved to great sadness by these encounters. At the same time this heightens his intolerance and anger towards those he regards as the modern pharisees (over legalistic traditional type). He wishes to teach such people a lesson, so he embraces the ideas of Cardinal Kasper which seems to (a) express his love for those he views as sidelined and (b) challenges the patience of traditionalists and exposes the hypocrisy of the naysayers (as he views it). However, it’s gone too far now, hence Cardinals Muller and Burke, and Bishop Schnieder have all offered Pope Francis a way back. Yes, carry on with the wonderful pastoral work, but don’t stray outside of our Lord’s teachings, because then it stops being pastoral. This is an angry pope, and in some cases rightly so, but this anger needs to be tempered.

    • For some time I’ve been of the opinion that Pope Francis holds his perspective with undue affect rather than an emotionally balanced, intellectually grounded assent to the Magisterium of the Church.
      It appears that he and other men and women of his generation who knew pre-Vatican II pastoral practice as young adults, embraced uncritically the wave of notions that swelled up in the wake of the hijacked Council. Born in the thirties and early forties, they entered religious life during the boom of the fifties, were
      likely afflicted by scrupulousness – a spiritual malady not so familiar to those born after the Council. Their painful obsessive compulsive preoccupation with personal sin found its terminus in the “spirit” of Vatican II. That same “spirit” has become their new obsession because it represents their “release” from the neurotic cycle which subsumed their emotional and spiritual lives. The “James Dean” generation who are now really “rebels without a cause” because the Council was a tragic failure. They can’t bring themselves to recognize that reality in all its horror and accept their share of responsibility for its endurance. To do so would rob them of their personal safe-space, their comfort zone, where responsibility for personal sin is consigned safely to the dustbin.
      Could this not account for what might be regarded as a whining endless obsession with mercy? Be assured, this writer could not put one foot before another without a mindfulness of God’s mercy for me, but it does not constitute a substitution for reverence for Divine Justice and indeed all the Divine Attributes. In my theological studies years ago a theologian once described heresy as a truth taken out its context to fuel another agenda. The theologian in question, a “peritus” at the Vatican Council, was a very enthusiastic proponent of liturgical “reform” and indeed of all the “spirit” of the Council.
      Pope John Paul, the Pope of Divine Mercy, had no problem recognizing the Mercy of Almighty God as a jewel in a setting of all the Divine Attributes and all the truths of the Faith. This is certainly not apparent during the current pontificate and is a four alarm clarion call for the greatest vigilance.

    • There is arrogance in this pope. He decides who is on the margins and who is not.
      OH please, ” At the same time this heightens his intolerance and anger towards those he regards as the modern pharisees (over legalistic traditional type). He wishes to teach such people a lesson, so he…” Who is this man to judge any of us a pharisees?
      Please, no more talk of this. It is uncharitable on Francis’s part.

      I do not see Pope Francis as pastoral. He reminds me of an activist with an agenda.

  22. A million telegrams bearing the message “Pope Francis, do you fear God?” should be sent to the Vatican.

  23. Fortunately their hubris has unmasked them, only our wishful thinking provides them cover. It is somewhat comical to watch a man of Forte’s age and experience display his familiarity with the pope, yaking about his intimate knowledge of how things went down to fluff up his own importance, oblivious to how other adults view such imprudent speech. I delight in the unmasking, while I recoil in horror at the reality revealed. It is unbearably difficult. Those members of the hierarchy, clergy, religious and laity that hide behind the respect their positions provide them are now stand unashamedly exposed.
    One hopes that those members of the hierarchy who are faithful to Jesus Christ are busy at work to undermine the construct of pastoral malfeasance reigning over us. It is the task of these bishops to bring this nightmare to correction. For us laity – shed the shades. They only make for a far more dangerous journey during this dark night.

  24. Bruno Forte is the one who inserted the text pertaining to homosexuals in the 2014 Synod’s mid-term relation? And we are going to believe what he says? While there are serious problems with Pope Francis – If what Archbishop Forte says is true, he should have kept his mouth shut for the sake of the Church. What a scandal! And, if you’ve ever read the text of a Bishops conference you’ll understand that… for the most part they don’t understand each other. Either the majority has dementia, or the devil is in the middle of their conversations. JPII chose Ratzinger to keep him in line with Church doctrine – and he did have some close calls. Thank St. Joseph that we have Cardinal Müller to caution the Curia and instruct the laity. May we have the peace to walk with JMJ in fulfilling our daily duty, as we quickly approach our own judgment.


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