Cardinal Gerhard Müller, the Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF), has just made comments that seem to be critical of the Four Cardinals and their published Dubia. The pope’s close friend, the journalist Andrea Tornielli, immediately picked up on these words and has now published a report on them in the Italian La Stampa publication, Vatican Insider.
In an 8 January interview given on television to an Italian TV station, TGCOM24, Cardinal Müller even said that he was surprised that the Letter of the Four Cardinals to the pope – containing the dubia concerning Amoris Laetitia – had been published. “I do not like that,” he added. In Müller’s eyes, it is not at all appropriate “almost to force the pope to answer with ‘yes’ or ‘no’” with regard to the dubia, especially because “there is not any danger to the Faith” which would then fittingly call for such a fraternal correction. Thus, such a correction of the pope “seems to me far away,” according to the Prefect of the Congregation for Doctrine. He also considers it unfortunate that these matters are now being discussed “publicly.”
In the German cardinal’s eyes “Amoris Laetitia is very clear in its doctrine and [in it] we can interpret [sic] the whole doctrine of Jesus concerning marriage, the whole doctrine of the Church of 2000 years history.” Moreover, for Pope Francis, it is all about “discerning the situation of those people who live in irregular [sic] unions” and thus about helping them to “find a new integration into the Church according to the conditions of the Sacraments and according to the Christian message on marriage.” Cardinal Müller adds that he does “not see any contradiction: on the one side we have the clear doctrine on marriage, on the other the obligation of the Church to help those persons in difficulties.”
This new interview could easily be interpreted as a rebuke of the Four Cardinals and of their arguably courageous act of publishing their own serious objections about certain aspects of Amoris Laetitia. Additionally, Cardinal Müller denies here that the teaching of the Church on marriage has been altered in any way by the pope’s recent post-synodal exhortation. He thus puts himself in opposition to many well-respected cardinals and bishops who have indeed seen serious problems in Amoris Laetitia. Müller’s own position also seems to bypass the fact that Amoris Laetitia has now already encouraged several episcopal statements that are marked by a certain permissiveness and more open-ended moral laxity – such as in Rome, in Argentine, and in Germany.
On 16 December 2016, and in a similarly optimistic way, Cardinal Müller recently gave yet another interview to the German regional newspaper Passauer Neue Presse in which he had said that Amoris Laetitia merely dealt with the very particular problem of those “remarried” couples who are convinced – but cannot prove it in Ecclesial courts – that a previously vowed or contracted marriage had been invalid from its very inception. Here is the crucial question posed in that interview, and then Müller’s own response:
Q. Pope Francis has made it clear that the question of Holy Communion for remarried divorcees has to be decided case by case. What is valid here: the meaning of the Pope’s word or the contrary tradition of his predecessors?
Cardinal Müller: There is no exception to the indissolubility of a sacramental marriage. The individual case referred to here relates to the question whether or not all natural conditions (especially the desire to marry) and the right understanding of marriage were given in Faith at the moment of contracting the marriage. In the normal case, an orderly church procedure (marriage process) clarifies whether or not a marriage is valid. In this context, the Pope refers to the “individual cases” in situations in which no clarity can be achieved by the Church, but where a single person, in his conscience, and after careful consultation with his confessor, honestly comes to the conviction of the invalidity of his first marriage. The confessor needs a profound spiritual discernment on the basis of ecclesiastical teaching on marriage. He can not simply suspend the indissolubility of a marriage at his own discretion and judgment and thus ignore the word of God. According to this situation, therefore, general guidelines would be here a contradiction in itself. This is also written in the papal document [Amoris Laetitia]. There is no door opened to a kind of “Catholic divorce,” which is secretly conceived and embarrassedly cloaked with pious words. [my emphasis]
This very interview has caused much discussion among attentive and earnest Catholics, mainly because of Cardinal Müller’s unexpected reference to the “Forum Internum” which had and has been much contested during and after the two Family Synods.
Close research into this matter has further shown to us the following aspects. First of all, there is a doctrinal text published in 1994 by the Vatican (notably promulgated by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith itself) which explicitly rejects this idea and application of a Forum Internum. Here are some important and pertinent quotes in this context:
In recent years, in various regions, different pastoral solutions in this area have been suggested according to which, to be sure, a general admission of divorced and remarried to Eucharistic communion would not be possible, but the divorced and remarried members of the faithful could approach Holy Communion in specific cases when they consider themselves authorized according to a judgment of conscience to do so. This would be the case, for example, when they had been abandoned completely unjustly, although they sincerely tried to save the previous marriage, or when they are convinced of the nullity of their previous marriage, although unable to demonstrate it in the external forum or when they have gone through a long period of reflection and penance, or also when for morally valid reasons they cannot satisfy the obligation to separate. In some places, it has also been proposed that in order objectively to examine their actual situation, the divorced and remarried would have to consult a prudent and expert priest. This priest, however, would have to respect their possible decision to approach Holy Communion, without this implying an official authorization. In these and similar cases it would be a matter of a tolerant and benevolent pastoral solution in order to do justice to the different situations of the divorced and remarried. Even if analogous pastoral solutions have been proposed by a few Fathers of the Church and in some measure were practiced, nevertheless these never attained the consensus of the Fathers and in no way came to constitute the common doctrine of the Church nor to determine her discipline. [….] In fidelity to the words of Jesus Christ, the Church affirms that a new union cannot be recognized as valid if the preceding marriage was valid. If the divorced are remarried civilly, they find themselves in a situation that objectively contravenes God’s law. Consequently, they cannot receive Holy Communion as long as this situation persists” (Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Letter to the Bishops of the Catholic Church concerning the Reception of Holy Communion by the Divorced and Remarried Members of the Faithful, Sept. 14, 1994, nn. 3-4). [my emphasis]
The mistaken conviction of a divorced and remarried person that he may receive Holy Communion normally presupposes that personal conscience is considered in the final analysis to be able, on the basis of one’s own convictions (cf. Encyclical Veritatis splendor, 55), to come to a decision about the existence or absence of a previous marriage and the value of the new union. However, such a position is inadmissible (cf.Code of Canon Law, can. 1085 § 2). Marriage, in fact, because it is both the image of the spousal relationship between Christ and his Church as well as the fundamental core and an important factor in the life of civil society, is essentially a public reality.… Thus the judgment of conscience of one’s own marital situation does not regard only the immediate relationship between man and God, as if one could prescind from the Church’s mediation, that also includes canonical laws binding in conscience. Not to recognize this essential aspect would mean in fact to deny that marriage is a reality of the Church, that is to say, a sacrament. (Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Letter to the Bishops of the Catholic Church concerning the Reception of Holy Communion by the Divorced and Remarried Members of the Faithful, Sept. 14, 1994, nn. 7-8). [my emphasis]
The Canon lawyer Edward Peters himself has written on this matter and also shows the limits of such resorts to a Forum Internum:
“A few examples of the exercise of power [in the internal forum are]: dispensation of certain occult impediments to marriage in special circumstances; [canonically] secret marriage; remission of reserved censures in certain cases.” Hill, in CLSA Comm (1985) 93-94; see likewise Viana, in Exeg. Comm (2004) I: 825. None of these classic examples of internal forum concerns looks to the reception of holy Communion by those remaining in irregular marriages; moreover, all require documentable intervention by ecclesiastical authority for their effectiveness; personal action on the part of the individuals concerned does not suffice.
For this current article, I have also consulted with many knowledgeable and well-formed persons: theologians, canon lawyers, prelates and priests. Several sources – whom I respect very much – were troubled by Cardinal Müller’s statement and have indicated that this Forum Internum idea is in itself problematic (one source said: “There is an old legal maxim: Nemo iudex in causa sui (“Nobody can be the judge in his own case”). The Church has never permitted individual Catholics – or a priest who hears only that one Catholic’s side of the story in the confessional – to decide that his/her own marriage was [from its inception] null and void.”)
However, several other very respected sources have said that Cardinal Müller himself did not commit an error in his interview with the German newspaper, inasmuch as he himself did not deny the indissolubility of marriage, did not explicitly mention Holy Communion for the “remarried” (even though the question itself indicated it); and also since the Church herself has already practiced a kind of Forum Internum for those very few exceptions where there was, indeed, for example, fraud involved; and thus the person himself cannot prove in an ecclesial court that the first marriage was a deception and thus invalid. (I myself, however, still wonder how this will transpire practically, in the face of the fact that most priests today tend toward a more lenient and laxer approach toward the multiple cases of “irregular” marriages; thus this promotion of such applied ideas about the especially protected Internal Forum might further confuse us all, rather than help us!)
However, what especially troubles many thoughtful observers in this matter is the following: Why is Cardinal Müller speaking here about such abstract and rare cases – and he even claims implicitly that that is, after all, what Pope Francis was really thinking of in Amoris Laetitia – when, indeed, the whole Catholic world is now in deep and demoralizing confusion; and when the first episcopal statements are now more permissively and openly allowing Communion for the “remarried”?
Is Cardinal Müller sufficiently helping us here in our trenchant distress, and is he likewise helping us to clarify and resist the permeating confusion? Or do we now also need a new set of clarifications from Cardinal Müller himself, as well as from the pope?
Update, 9 January in the evening: An excellent article written by Rome Correspondent Edward Pentin is to be found here: http://www.ncregister.com/blog/edward-pentin/cardinal-muellers-tv-interview-causes-bewilderment
It adds some important information about Cardinal Müller’s situation.
Update, 1 February: The above-quoted text by Dr. Peters mentions Canon 130 with regard to the Forum Internum. In it, the case mentioned by Cardinal Mueller is indeed quoted. However, since marriage always is known to others and thus pertains to the external forum, Dr. Peters doubts that even in these rare cases a Forum Internum is advisable. He says: “Re ‘conflict marriage’ situations (very rare, where objective evidence makes the nullity of the first marriage certain, but there is no possibility of proving that nullity in a tribunal): There is a theoretical (“decidedly hypothetical”) possibility that an internal forum solution might make possible a valid ‘second’ marriage here, but “it cannot be recognized in the external forum, just as is laid down by Canon 130.” Peters concludes: “[…] proponents of the “internal forum solution” for reception of holy Communion by divorced-and-remarried Catholics need, at a minimum, to account for […] (4) how even persons in rare ‘conflict marriages’ situations can be encouraged to invoke an internal forum solution when their situation is likely to be known in the community.
Is this a legit interview or fake?
It is a true interview and it has been widely already reported on in Europe. There is no doubt, unfortunately. I heard it with my own ears.
Fr. Z. is reporting this as well.
Very distressing report. I am in a bit of “shell shock”.
There is a scene I am reminded of in Godfather ll movie, where a mobster was about to testify against ” the Don”.( his boss).
At the last minute his testimony changed.
Not suggesting Cardinal Mueller is a mobster, but it seems clear that the pressure mounts and he is either weak, being held hostage to something or the other, or perhaps he is just weak.
Go FORWARD Cardinal Burke!
That is exactly what I said above in a comment. His position or sympathy would not change so abruptly unless he was being threatened, or others were thereatened or he is being blackmailed – or all of the above.
Regardless, he will be held accountable.
There are no excuses.
Held Accountable at the particular judgment. In this world he’ll be hailed as a courageous supporter of the Pope.
That’s what happens when your boss sacks three of your best subordinates for no reason and makes it explicitly clear that there is nothing that you can about it
He could have made a statement, resigned, signed the Dubia & presented the formal correction along with the four Cardinals & their supporters.
I wonder if the Vatican mafia is threatening not the Cardinal, per se, but something even more catastrophic, which would deeply trouble a faithful Cardinal. For example, how plausible would it be that the entire CDF would be eliminated if Cdl. Muller does not tow the line, and the Cardinal would have to carry that weight on his conscience. Choose between the sheep, or the Congregation that defends Church teaching. This is no longer a preposterous idea, coming from a pope who claims “I am the Magisterium”.
In fact, I have read that this is in the pipeline, but I can’t remember where. Even more reason to get the answers to the Dubia because of the moral hazard it provokes.
I’m defending what he did, just explaining it
Poor dude woke up and realized he was spooning with a horse head?
Typical schizophrenic Vatican II prelate. One minute they sound Catholic, next a heretic. I actually like honest heretics like Kasper better than duplicitous heretics like Muller.
Absolutely. That is why I can no longer get all aggro about Frank. He’s played his hand and doesn’t even fake it anymore.
He does us a favor actually, as he flushes out the gamers and the hucksters and the fakes and phonies and back-room Quislings that have been duping the masses for these many years.
I seriously wonder if any of these guys at some point are going to wake up to what they have done and flat-out lynch themselves like Judas when the facts and truth finally come out.
I strongly recommend that you get The Keys of This Blood by Malachi Martin. The Judas Complex, a chapter of the book, is alone worth buying the book.
My personal opinion (for what it’s worth) is that chapter is the Third Secret in veiled form.
Shortly after his election in 1958, John XXIII read the Third Secret. He reportedly re-folded it and placed it in its envelope with the dismissive observation: “This does not concern my pontificate.” If this is accurate, then it would seem that the Third Secret concerns a (at that time) future pontificate that would be “problematic” to say the least. Possibly a pope who, according to the deathbed prophecy of St. Francis of Assisi, would not be canonically elected and “who, by his cunning, will endeavour to draw many into error and death.” He would be, as per that same prophecy, “not a true pastor, but a destroyer.” If this does indeed form at least a part of the Third Secret, then we can easily understand why it has never been revealed.
Denial is not just a river in Egypt.
Sure it is. De Nile. It runs right into De Tiber. You just don’t know your geography. (Wink and Smile).
Sadly, we have Da Niles all over the world. That’s the value of the internet. It’s an aid to we peasant Catholics to find the truth. The morally compromised clergy have fewer places to hide.
Priest against priest, bishop against bishop, cardinal against cardinal ….. each person to be convinced in his or her own mind as to what is right. Has the Catholic Church now become Protestant?
I suspect there will be no official answer to the dubia. None. Nada. Zip. That interview was THE answer. Put on your seat belt and make sure your luggage is stowed securely under your seat.
Sounds like the end of the book of Judges in the Old Testament. “Everyone did what was right according to his own eyes.”
“The work of the devil will infiltrate even into the Church in such a way that one will see cardinals opposing cardinals, bishops against bishops. The priests who venerate me will be scorned and opposed by their confreres…churches and altars sacked; the Church will be full of those who accept compromises and the demon will press many priests and consecrated souls to leave the service of the Lord.” The Apparitions of the Blessed Virgin Mary in Akita, Japan, to Sr. Agnes Sasagawa
https://www.ewtn.com/library/mary/akita.htm
A new wave of nausea and depression overcame me in reading of Cardinal Mueller’s utterances in this interview. Two parellel realities cannot be. His faith is not my faith. AL smashes the entire Catholic moral edifice that comes to us from Our Lord. I feel battered, abused by the pope and his henchmen. The unity of the Church has taken a major blow with this shocking interview.
Are we not the Church Militant? Say the Rosary and offer up sacrifices for the pope and the Church.
Thanks Pablo. Rosary–check. Offer up sacrifices for pope–on my to-do list.
And what if a confessor disagrees with the penitent about the invalidity of his first marriage? Is the penitent allowed to take advice from a second or a third priest until he there is one who agrees with him and absolves for having remarried ?
And one may already foresee a lot of complaints to the bishops about not enough lax priests in that respect.
The Devils hides in the details… The demolishing of the Church is on its way with the blessings of the Prefect for the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith.
…”Bishops against biqhops, cardinals against cardinals”…
These prelates seem to think we are not worthy of a Yes or No to valid questions concerning a Papal Exhortation that actually sets out to change the God-given Ten Commandments. They support grave sin by their wilful disobedience to God’s Word which they are bound to uphold as successors of the First Apostles. It would appear that holding on to their Offices is much more important that the moral conduct of Christ’s flock.
Please Cardinal Burke make that formal correction NOW & make it publicly.
I admit, that I feel a bit of a “sucker punch” here. I truly did not see this coming from Mueller in such an open fashion. But, then, what do I know? I hoped. What is another ” let down”? Just add it to the list.
How can this prelate truly believe that AL does not change a great many doctrines to the faith?
I fear Cardinal Burke will be alone. There will be no Cardinal Sarah coming forth, as I hoped and prayed.
However, I do believe Cardinal Burke is not afraid of being alone.
And we should not either!
God be with His Church. It seems as though our Lord is holding back His graces upon the Church and the world. There are not many more opportunities left.
You shouldn’t feel let down by Mueller. He is not a Catholic. If I said the things he said, you’d denounce me and avoid me.
How about this pearl of wisdom on how to deny the Resurrection – straight from the Vatican’s “Defender of Orthodoxy”, Cardinal Mueller:
“A running camera would not have been able to make an audio-visual recording of either the Easter manifestations of Jesus in front of his disciples, nor of the Resurrection event, which, at its core, is the consummation of the personal relation of the Father to the incarnate Son in the Holy Ghost. In contrast to human reason, animals and technical devices are not capable of a transcendental experience and thus also lack the ability to be addressed by the Word of God through perceptible phenomena and signs. Only human reason in its inner unity of categoricality [sic] and transcendentality [sic] is determinable by the Spirit of God to enable it to perceive in the sensory cognitive image (triggered by the manifestation event) the person-reality of Jesus as the cause of this sensory-mental cognitive image.”
(Gerhard L. Müller, Katholische Dogmatik, 8th ed. [Freiburg: Herder, 2010], p. 300
He was appointed by the German Shepherd himself, Benedict XVI. Now he decides what is Catholic doctrine and what isn’t.
Mueller on the Blessed Sacrament:
“In reality, body and blood of Christ does not signify the physical parts of the man Jesus during his life or in his glorified body. Body and blood here signifies specifically the presence of Christ in the symbolism of bread and wine.”
… … …
“We now have communion with Jesus Christ, through the eating and drinking of the bread and wine.”
… … …
“The nature of these gifts can be clarified only in their relation to man. The essence of the bread and the wine, therefore, must be defined in an anthropological way. The natural character of these offerings [bread and wine] as a fruit of the earth and the work of human hands, as units of natural and cultural products, is to strengthen and nourish man and the human community in the character of a common meal. … This natural essence of the bread and wine is transformed by God in the sense that this nature of bread and wine now shows and achieves salvific communion with God.”
– G. L. Müller, Die Messe, Quelle Christlichen Lebens. Augsburg: Sankt Ulrich Verlag, 2002, pp. 139-140
So…Cardinal Mueller, that heart muscle and type AB blood in the miracles of Lanciano, Argentina and Poland….I guess that did not make your heart burn with devotion? .Oh poor Jesus. We must console you, we must console you.
So, this puts an end to the hopes anyone might have in Mueller being the Vatican’s “watchdog of orthodoxy”. The man’s a disgraceful heretic.
Our Lord Jesus Christ shed his Precious Blood to purchase the Church (Acts 20:28), and the Church teaches us Divine truths that impostors like Mueller publicly deny.
So, Mueller spurns the Precious Blood. He’s not a Catholic and therefore cannot hold any office in the Church. Be outraged!
We are outraged, but we cannot prevent him or any other Modernist within PF’s entourage from holding office. Whoever appointed them is to blame & in this case PF himself. What more can we expect?
No, we can’t prevent him. Divine Law takes care of that! All we need to do is know the Divine Law on the matter.
Typical theological and ecclesiastical legalese to say the very least. On a more humorous note, I would love an English professor to diagram this quote!
Yes, to say the least.
To speak in moderation however, Mueller denies publicly what has been formally defined as dogma by the Church, and that makes him a heretic and no Catholic. The office that he claims to hold is actually vacant by Divine Law.
The longer people recognise him as some sort of legitimate authority, the more they risk drifting into heresy and out of the Church themselves. I am not in the least bit surprised that he has sided with Francis on the Dubia.
“The longer people recognise him as some sort of legitimate authority…”
Yes, indeed. And see my post above about his longstanding interest in liberation theology and his regular trips to guru Gutierrez…
Thanks, Mike, for providing this translation. I am not in the least surprised. This interpretation of the resurrection (as a “transcendental experience” and not an objective historical event) has been the norm in German theology, both Protestant and Catholic, for several decades now. It has become a litmus test for academic credibility, widely assumed.
No problem Kevin. I got it from Novus Ordo Watch. It’s just a fact that one has to go to many sources to get the whole truth of the way things are, and the guy who runs that blog is multilingual. He has translations from Kasper and Benedict saying similar things about core dogmas of the Faith. You won’t find this on EWTN or Catholic Answers! Even though the calendar says it’s 2017, it’s permanently 1984 in the Novus Ordo church. Ignorance is Strength.
Definitely not….along with the rest of Masonic, Modernist Rome.
We few, we real Catholics, will get our day.
“In the German cardinal’s eyes “Amoris Laetitia is very clear in its doctrine and [in it] we can interpret [sic] the whole doctrine of Jesus concerning marriage, the whole doctrine of the Church of 2000 years history.” Moreover, for Pope Francis, it is all about “discerning the situation of those people who live in irregular [sic] unions” and thus about helping them to “find a new integration into the Church according to the conditions of the Sacraments and according to the Christian message on marriage.” ”
If that is so, then why are Polish Bishops refusing to grant communion for the divorced and remarried while certain Italian, Argentine, and American Bishops are allowing it? Why is Bishop Poprocki not allowing communion for those in “irregular unions”, while Cupich and McElroy are allowing it? Or, is the expectation such that those not “toeing the line” will be replaced by those that do?
BTW, the dubia was addressed to Pope Francis and not the CDF.
Actually, it was addressed to both Pope Francis and Cardinal Muller as prefect of the CDF. He has already stated he will not answer them, though, so this must be taken as his personal interpretation of the matter…
What is the “Christian message on marriage” that Mueller refers to? Is it old, expressed as “What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder”, or is it new, expressed as “but the divorced and remarried members of the faithful could approach Holy Communion in specific cases when they consider themselves authorized according to a judgment of conscience to do so. This would be the case, for example, when they had been abandoned completely unjustly, although they sincerely tried to save the previous marriage, or when they are convinced of the nullity of their previous marriage, although unable to demonstrate it in the external forum or when they have gone through a long period of reflection and penance, or also when for morally valid reasons they cannot satisfy the obligation to separate”?
The Ten Commandments cannot be redefined for the very few ‘difficult’ cases that can continue to be adequately dealt with in the confessional as heretofore. This is a wilful attempt to contradict Catholic Doctrine & nothing else. More will follow if AL succeeds.
Cardinal Muller apparently is not interested in clearing anything up for us. Frankly I’m really surprised by his reaction of the Dubia.. I shouldn’t be I suppose. Sad to say.
Quisling.
Dissimulation is the mark of the progressive liberal marxist brain diseased pseudo-Catholic change agents rotting the sinews of the Church, hey look at me I’m a Bishop- so what. The Rolling Stones is the perfect example of this generation, out there banging their heads on stage with canes and colostomy bags like anybody still gives a damn- die already generation jackass. The world existed long before you were born to hubris, the Church is the only path to salvation and the schizophrenic spirit of the V2 rocket that exploded into the world in 1965 has run it’s course- die so the rebuilding can begin. Just like the American press you’ve completely exposed yourselves, you’ve got your vote of no confidence from real Catholics, not the Catholics in name only crowd. Honoring Luther has sealed it for me, this ridiculous caricature of holiness has got to go.
Yes, they have to go. We are taken for fools but woe betide them continuing in their immoral deviance. I am confident God is with the four Cardinals & will bless their efforts. This is the centenary year of Fatima. They have now exposed themselves – let’s leave the rest to Divine intervention to empower those who really are worthy to wear red.
What is odd to me as an educated Catholic ( 8 years Dominican nuns/ 8 years Jesuits…followed by five years of reading all scripture, the whole Summa T., and most of Augustine…huuuge…) is that Francis wants clergy intimately involved in this one case of the internal dissenting conscience whereas such intimacy is not mentioned as to the large percentage of Catholic couples using birth control ( USCCB estimated 96% c. five years ago) or of over a hundred USA Catholic politicians who vote pro choice. Why is this intimate clergy involvement urged on one issue only of dissenting conscience…when it posits an idea that is applicable all over the place wherever there is a dissenting conscience? Is this the only area because divorced and remarried Catholics in Germany resign from the Catholic head count in Germany and save themselves from paying the ten percent tithe that normally goes to the government and from there to the Bishops? A Catholic teen reads a psychology book that says masturbation is healthy and he believes it. Does he get intense involvement from a priest…accompaniement…as to whether he can still receive Christ in Communion because he is sincere or do all clergy including Francis pass that one in silence as they seem to do on birth control. We look odd calling for total involvement of priests in one area and not in others. We big city Catholics can miss Mass from sickness for weeks and our really wonderful pastor will not call by phone to ask if we’ve been sick or kidnapped by ISIS….and sincerely, he is wonderful. So this accompaniement trending thing is new to me in general. But the oddity is that it is only in an area that in one country has money implications…Germany.
Follow the money.
As a Protestant who nonetheless admires the RCC and desires to see her strong in faith, I have often wondered if this whole controversy is simply the logical outcome of the lax approach, de facto normative, toward artificial contraceptives for two generations now.
Too difficult for that bunch of crooks to answer “yes” or “no” to precise, simple questions. Didn’t the Lord teach that we should speak clearly: yes, yes, no, no? (The rest comes from the devil…)
Delendo Bergoglio.
No Bergoglio no imbroglio.
They are a bunch of crooks! They have been robbing one generation after the next of the faith, the Truth of Christ, His Church, His Sacraments!!
We shall all have to pay for this, you know. Another generation will not go by where our Lord will watch as more of His children are corrupted without ANY Church on earth left to guide them, to defend the faith.
THIS is gravely serious!!!
Cardinal Burke must go forward with the correction. Let is be shown who stands for Christ and who does not. Let the Lord see our faith in witness, sacrifice. Forgo your red caps, your titles, your power…….
You cannot take it with you when you meet our Lord dear prelates.
So many priests, prelates in great peril. Too much that was given them has been squandered and so neglected.
We must beg our Lord for His mercy, have great reparation for our sin and the sins of our brothers and sisters.
Stand for Christ in all things! Do not despair……but just stand.
No danger to the faith? Is Mueller so unplugged from ecclesial realities that he believes that? Is a looming schism not a danger to the faith? Is the scandal of revising 2000 years of teaching and practice not a danger to the faith?
Do the wildly divergent interpretations of AL by Bishops not plainly show that there is serious confusion afoot? This man is fatally, abysmally obtuse. How many more times must we hear “There is no problem, AL is perfectly clear”? As if simply wanting it to be clear was the same thing as actually being clear.
Mueller and others who assert that AL is perfectly clear are indulging that vice that marks modernists and liberals everywhere: believing that reality accommodates itself to our wills.
This is more 2 + 2 = 5
Muller has stated repeatedly since AL was released that no Church document can be interpreted contrary to Scripture and Tradition, ergo AL does not permit the divorced and “remarried” to receive Holy Communion.
The problem for Muller, however, is that the author of said document has stated in writing that there is no other interpretation of said document beyond permitting, in some cases, the divorced and “remarried” to receive Holy Communion.
“One says: You are wrong!!!! So wrong!! 2 + 2 doesn’t equal 5!!! It equals 7!
Another says: You are both wrong, it equals 4.8!
And another says: How far you have all slipped…It really equals 6 2/3!!”
Let’s face it, except among very, very few among the prelates, it appears this is just about what our doctrinal and theological discussion has become…
You’re all wrong. It’s actually 39.689645
There’s a bigger problem even Pope Francis rebuked any heretical interpretation of AL.
If magisterial documents which can easily interpreted as being heretical are allowed to stand, the deposit of faith of the Church mas been made murky. One such document can easily be dismissed as an anomoly but dozens of such documents tend to support each other in error and lead to the situation in Mark 7:1–13 where Jesus rebuked the Pharisees for placing man made traditions above the Tradition of God, thereby nullifying the deposit of faith (in this case, one of the 10 commandments).
There is saying that privately and then there’s public. It reminds one how Paul VI refused to put his name on any explicit formal suppression of the old Missal, despite being begged to by Abp. Bugnini which was vetoed by the Cardinal Secretary of State in 1974. If the Holy Father really wanted that, it would have happened.
Similarly, Francis obviously believes the interpretation as told to the Argentine bishops, yet it’s doubtful he’ll ever publicly proclaim it formally.
No danger to the Deposit of Faith, perhaps. Damned dangerous for those who would be faithful, however.
Sold out.
Yep. No doubts there.
What do you do if one goes to one priest and the priest says your new marriage is the real one and first one was invalid, and later on you go to another church a new priest says your first marriage was valid and this one your living in adultery and need to repent before receiving communion
The Catholic Church makes universal laws. The Novus Ordo church doesn’t. They are two different things.
Can you imagine if someone ran through a stop sign and told the cop that they don’t believe in stop signs? They’d go to the trial and then to the funny farm.
I agree with Elijah fan that the church contribution in Germany may play a role here in explaining Muller’s statement but it has been a part of German political life for a long time. Muller was previously more sympathetic towards the Dubia. I can’t help but sense the heavy breath of blackmail and threats against his person. That would be consistent with Masonic control of the Papacy.
Just more affirmation that the modernists in Rome do not hold the True Faith. Novusordoism is not Catholicism. Only a schism will clarify that once and for all. Please, all pray that the church of darkness will leave Rome. Our Lady of Fatima, ora pro nobis!
It seems to me that the devil is trying to twist the doctrines on original sin and free will. Taken to its logical end, everyone can claim that they are not fully culpable for their sin because of, you know, concupiscence. People will say: “Yes, I know what I did was wrong, but I had these urges, so I’m not completely responsible. After all, it’s not my fault Adam and Eve ate the apple. It can’t be said that I have complete free will if I’m constantly pushed and pulled by concupiscence. In my conscience I know I’m not completely responsible, so I can take communion.”
Our society, where there’s always an excuse for wrongdoing, seems completely primed for this kind of thinking.
Cases that cannot be clarified by the Church?! I’m truly not understanding. The Church has marriage tribunals, all the way to the Roman Rota. Why isn’t clarity being given about whether their first marriage is valid or not.
What if you go to 20 priest in 20 different Catholic churches and 10 say your first marriage is valid and 10 say it’s invalid, who do we believe?
Whichever your conscience agrees with. Because your conscience is inviolable!
*sigh*
Jafin, Bergoglio and his minions are doing their utmost best in trying to transform the Catholic Church into the Protestant church.
I am WELL aware.
Above, Cardinal Müller opines:
This is the same Cardinal who, in December 2014 with regard to precisely the same matter, said:
It bears repeating: a subtle christological heresy.
No danger to the faith?
NOT so subtle!
Pray for this man. Just as in the passion of our Lord, he is denying and running away instead of insisting on the Truth.
We have a Pope that does not believe the Catholic faith has the Universal Truth. That’s what it boils down to and most of the other leaders of the Church are following him down this rabbit hole of eventual Apostasy. You deny the Church Has the Truth and every “law” means nothing and no one needs to convert. Heck even atheists can go to Heaven. No need to think supernaturally this is our paradise (so recycle please!).
By denying there is a Universal Truth and the Catholic Church is the keeper of it, they deny Christ who is Truth. They are abandoning the Church to be scourged, humiliated and seem to be killed. All in not lost but it seems God is withholding grace from us because of our sins. Do not despair, we know She has already crushed “the devil’s head.
Who are these people’s king?
When Christ was born most of the Jews said Herod was their King.
And chillingly at His passion, they proclaimed they have no King but Cesar.
Now his own Church is proclaiming man, and his conscience, to be king. We have no king but our own thoughts and pleasures are what their actions speak.
It’s quite clear that these men in Rome would have abandoned our Lord at Calvary but the biggest question is who will repent like Peter or become a son of perdition like Judas.
God will not be mocked.
Pray and do penance for these men that hold these positions as Shepherds.
It doesn’t matter who their king is – Christ is Our King.
It’s quite clear that these men in Rome
wouldhave abandoned our Lord‘s Body the Church, just as the disciples abandoned Our Lord at Calvary …*
The Church is undergoing her passion following her head and LORD and treading the path he has trodden.
So, at long last, Cardinal Mueller lets everyone know where he stands. Well, for me, it is quite obvious that he stands with heresy and with Francis.
Full steam ahead for the Four Cardinals! Please rid us of the heretics in our midst.
If this were analagous to a boxing match, I would say that Muhammad’s manager, Müller, is playing a bit of ‘pope-a-dope’.
Dear Al, Exactly.
Something is really fishy here…i’d bet you a dime to a dollar that someone told him to change his tone or lose his position as head of the CDF.
Yes, but I think he’s on his way anyhow. Schönborn has already been cited to replace him either at the CDF or a transformation of it under another title.
Well, if he thinks he’s on the way out, then he should stand with the four Cardinals and Bishop Schneider.
Of course he should have. Human nature being what it is he buckled. Don’t forget most of these prelates are effeminates.
Dear Margaret,
How about lose his eternal soul into eternal perdition. So much for human respect, eh’? In caritas.
Good point, but I wonder if any of them are thinking about eternity.
Hello again,
Whether they are “thinking about eternity” in reality has no relevance as to the direction which their free will ascents are moving their eternal dispositions. My point was simply that we are following our Blessed Dominus Deus’ command to love our neighbor as He loves us, when we are focused on their eternal dispositions in spite of themselves, focused in prayer, fasting, and sacrifice offered for them, rather than wondering about their desire for human respect and satisfaction in the flesh, while we all remain in exile in this wretched world. In caritas.
BENEDICTUS Dominus Deus
I am convinced the likes of King Francis and his lackeys do not believe in God. How could they given what they are doing? Eternity is the last thing on their minds.
I could not agree more. Especially since he was ORDERED to dump three of his priests. (See the 1P5 article to this effect)
And when Cardinal Mueller asked him why he was ordered to dismiss them (“They are three of my best people.”) the Pope humiliated him by telling him “I am the Pope. I don’t have to give you a reason for my decisions” and showed him the door. So much for Pope Humble.
He gave the response of a tyrant, not a Pope of the Catholic Church.
But who really should care what position they hold, if they cooperate to undermine the teachings of our Lord?
What would happen to him?
All these Congregations over there in the Vatican are really of little use to the soul.
They are only there to make little men look like little chiefs and used to hide a great deal of mischief.
Cardinal Müller wants to stay in Office. He is under pressure and therefore he hasn’t the Courage to do the right thing. Keep in mind that Pope Francis reign like a despot and intimitade all Kind of faithful Catholics. The mercy of Francis is cold as ice. This Pope knows that the perfect hideout for haughtiness is paraded humility. That’s why Francis makes so much noise about being humble and modest. He is neither humble nor mercyful but just a liberal Hardliner who wants to alter and change the Church according his own taste and ideas.
You are being kind to His Humbleness. He is a dictator who edges closer to being a tyrant every day. I will continue to pray for him.
Of course. That’s the Bergoglio method. It’s the reason very few bishops have so little public support. They are hiding.
Lord come to our aid; without You we can do nothing.
Amen. O God, come to my assistance; O Lord, make haste to help me. Psalm 70.
I agree with you, someone told him to change his tone…let them dismiss Amoris L. and reprint with corrections in line with the scriptures….with a new order “NO ANNULMENTS” Can someone direct this to Pope Francis and Cardinal Mueller please as I am not sure how to do this.
I agree, Al, but how are those four Cardinals to do what you suggest by themselves? There are many bishops who support them, but they have been so effectively intimidated, i.e., silenced, that the four Cardinals are like a twig in a raging river. If two or three hundred bishops don’t actively join them, they are toast.
NUMBERS DO NOT MATTER! In the end, Winslow, the heretics will become the apostates- not us. We must choose- Christ or Bergolio’s heresies.
You and Winslow both have good points. You’re right that numbers don’t matter, but in the eyes of the world numbers DO matter. I think that was his main point.
I think St Jerome once lamented that the world went to bed Catholic one day and groaned to find itself Arian the next day. (Sorry, I’m going by memory here.)
St. Athanasius, St. Basil the Great, St. Gregory of Nyssa and the Saints who upheld the Catholic Faith are known even by secular historians today; whereas only theology students know the names of Arius and Pope Liberius. N.B. He’s the only Pope of that name. When Angelo Cardinal Roncalli took the name of John XXIII, the Catholic world was aghast that he took the name because John XXII denied that the souls of the just who go straight to heaven immediately see God. In his opinion, they would not see body until judgement day. (See Robert Siscoe’s article on this.) He recanted on his deathbed, but for centuries no Pope would ever take the name John.
My point, Margaret is much more practical than what the world has to say, which is irrelevant. Without the support of hundreds of bishops, the efforts of the four Cardinals will come to nothing. The ”strength in numbers’ axiom operates here. If Bergoglio doesn’t see a powerful lobby of bishops lined up against him, he won’t budge an inch.
I agree with you, but remember during the Arian crisis only a few bishops stood up for the Catholic Faith.
However – and this is the main difference between then and now – the monks and laity supported St. Athanasius and his confreres in upholding the Catholic Faith. Whereas today, the monasteries, convents and seminaries are anywhere from orthodox (yes, there’s a few) to outright Modernist.
Given the fact that this is infinitely worse than the Arian crisis, I doubt that many bishops would support them. But in the end, as Al said, numbers do not matter. Each of us must answer to God one day. I pray that I will be faithful to God, Our Lady and the Catholic Faith.
Mother of Perpetual Help, pray for us!
I think that the proper way to understand the cardinal’s statements is the following one : no matter what we say or like or would prefer, pope Francis is the pope and Amoris Laetitia has been published. Sooner or later, God willing, there will be another pope who will lead us back to orthodoxy and then we will have to make sense of AL in a catholic fashion. The cardinal is giving us this interpretation now, he is looking forward. The other solution would be to pretend that there will be a future popoe who will simply cancel AL and declare that there was a time when the Chruch did not have a pope. Not very catholic, eh? So we have to interpret AL in a way that is consistent with orthodoxy. As Francis himself would say, “there is no other interpretation” (but he would disagree with that one!). Actually, if we look at these things with clear eyes, we can see that up until now, probably because he did not see any other way to achieve his goals while avoiding open and immediate conflict, Francis has always retorted to footnotes, indirect references to what Kasper or Schonbron said, and private letters conveniently leaked out; but no direct affirmative heretic pronouncements. He thinks he is clever, but I believe the Holy Ghost is more astute than him. I think that the cardinal sees that.
Is not PF skirting the Ten Commandments in such a way as to render them null & void? If he is allowed to do this then another pope will surely be allowed to cancel AL & bring us back to Tradition. Cardinal Müller knows full well that PF does not hold to the One Holy Catholic & Apostolic Church’s teaching so why is he supporting him. The only sensible reasoning is that Cardinal Müller & most of the Cardinals & Bishops also do not hold to the True Faith & are perfectly wiling to undermine its teaching.
The problem with this “logical” reasoning is that cardinal Muller has made numerous statements since the publication of AL to recall that the rule forbidding “remarried divorced” couples from communion has not changed. If there is a problem with his newest statement now, it is not that he has changed his mind, it is that he interprets AL in such a restrictive way that it simply does not seem consistent with the “free for all” approach of other bishops, and presumably of the pope himself. As I said above, the most probable reason for this seemingly unrealistic interpretation is to give an insight of what would happen with AL when the confusion is gone (with another pope). There is no way someone can make it so that AL was not issued, so it will have to be dealt with in the uture. FAithful Catholics could take this view right now.
AL needs to be dealt with in the present, I am afraid.
If you are correct, and Cardinal Mueller’s unrealistic interpretation is base upon a future pope, etc., then he is dangerously playing with ” fire”.
Too much of the Church has given into this type of reasoning to allow cowardice and clericalism on their part.
I think it is better to live in the Truth at the present, and not strategize away something as gravely dangerous as AL.
The cardinal’s approach is also strategy for the present, I would say. The Church is not a political party that may go away for the lack of wisdom of its leaders; the Lord promised the gates of hell will not prevail against her. That being said, I do not know if the other four cardinals will go forward nonetheless with the correction, and I would not mind if they did. I will not lament if they do, for sure. Everyone must do what they can in their own place.
Card. Burke said a formal correction would be issued after Christmas. If he is a faithful & worthy successor of the First Apostles he must do so & immediately, in view of the crisis we are going through.
He will follow through. Please don’t confuse yourself with the Holy Spirit as to be the one to decide that it has to be immediate. Let’s trust Burke and the others to handle this according to their own wisdom.
We cannot afford to wait another four months for PF’s non-response. He has let it be known that he doesn’t intend to answer the Dubia & we know why. Waiting interminably in the hope he ‘converts’ is not going to remove the dangerous elements of AL & will only allow it to become normal practice within the CC worldwide. I can’t see that outcome being of the Holy Spirit so in order to avoid that happening & to assure the Cardinals of our total support, the momentum must be kept up. Our support for the four Cardinals needs to be brought to the attention of these deviants every day. They must be made realise we are not going away!
Yes, the Lord did say the gates of hell will not prevail against the Church.
Let’s not abuse that statement now to excuse cowardice and clericalism among prelates.
Last time I heard, Francis was good with 9 out of the 10 Commandments. Gee whiz, in athletics, 90% is considered pro! I guess that puts Francis right alongside of Bill Clinton.
But is he OK with the First Commandment from which every other commandment flows?
Ah, okay. Had not thought about that one…so his average is down to 8 out of 10:-)
If the truth were openly known I think it would be zilch. I don’t believe any Modernist believes in God & if no Deity then there is no Hell, Purgatory, sin, judgement etc. All is allowed provided we recycle & accept Muslim immigrants who want to take us over.
I mean, technically he’s right. There is nothing in AL that actually changes doctrine. Supporters of AL and Pope Francis loyalists will wave that flag until their arms fall off, as I found out this weekend when I foolishly engaged a few of them in an online debate.
But that’s not the point, as we know. I think Cardinal Mueller gets that as well, but the recent show of force directed his Congregation by the Pope himself has sufficiently chastened him. He thinks he can mitigate the bad effects of AL without condemning it.
To quote Lord Elrond of Rivendell, “Our list of allies grows thin.”
Lord Elrond at Rivendell also said to be comforted because there were many other powers and realms they knew not, which were hidden from these Nine, but will be fighting on their side.
Good point
There is nothing in AL that actually changes doctrine. Negative, especially after pope has come out and written how he would like AL to be interpreted. And why then would the Brave 4 Bishops who are Cardinals issue dubia?
*
For starters, the LORD commissioned his disciples to make disciples … and to teach those discples [cf. Mat 28:16-20]. Why would his vicar say in AL, 3
*
Cf. Changes in doctrine e.g. here: Pope Francis & The Synod on the Family 2015 STAND CONDEMNED! [point 8. ought to be very easy to see] – http://wp.me/p2Na5H-vK and here: Pro Domine et Ecclesia
et Pontificecontra #AmorisLaetitia; Petitions: To the Pope; To all Catholic Cardinals; To all Catholic Bishops – http://wp.me/p2Na5H-HOThere are always hard cases. But this should be what annulment is for.
What most people still do not get is that hard cases are used to open the floodgates. And not only in this one area.
In the U.K., prior to the Abortion Act, it was said that there were 2,000 abortions a year. That the Act wouldn’t make abortions more numerous, but would just make those 2,000 cases where there was really no possible alternative much safer (though obviously not for the intended victim).
Now there are 180,000 abortions a year.
But the situation here too is not only about divorce. Does anyone seriously believe that the man who honoured the Italian abortion monster will not next decide that there are hard cases in abortion too? This is the way of the liberal. Of the progressive. It can be seen everywhere.
But only by those who open their eyes.
The hardest part for me to admit to myself since we first heard rumblings that the eventuality that is AL was stirring in the works during Synod 2014 is that all of this is merely a formalizing of “pastoral practice” that has been going on for decades in the post-Conciliar Church.
Does anyone who has no choice but to attend a NO parish not know of at least one couple among the parishioners whom everyone knows (in some cases, even Father himself) is in an invalid second (or third) marriage, yet proceeds to tromp up to receive the Blessed Sacrament anyway? Or how about the couple who have publicly—for God only knows what reason; perhaps to try to assuage what is left of their conscience—mentioned to other parishioners about the husband who has received a vasectomy, or the wife who has had a tubal ligation, yet still is damn sure to make sure everybody sees them “actively participating” by receiving Holy Communion while objectively in mortal sin?
All that is happening here is an attempt—a coup de grace, if you will—by the Modernists who clearly overwhelmingly control the Vatican to simply make decades of illicit practice now just “no big deal”. And the truly sad part from my perspective is that the majority of those who call themselves Catholic either don’t know, choose not to believe, encourage the revolution, or simply don’t care. So waiting for the hierarchy to do anything about this almost seems like an exercise in futility at this point. All we can realistically do is pray constantly, trust in Our Lord and Our Lady, and do the best we can to raise our own families to be faithful Catholics.
I feel that the majority of those Catholics don’t know as there has been no catechesis since VII unless your parents were wealthy & could afford to send you to fully staffed Catholic schools run by religious orders not aligned to the NWO. If they didn’t believe or didn’t care it would hardly be likely they would attend Holy Mass in the first instance. This is the fallout from the ‘spirit’ of VII & the devils that took it over.
This is depressing.
It is soul destroying.
Dear Ana, They can’t stop the faithful, no matter how hard they try the truth is on our hearts.
Exactly! Think of the Irish keeping the Faith during penal times, or Ukrainians under soviet regime.
It’s going to get a lot worse. Cf. Why the Catholic Church is true: the Books of Maccabees – http://wp.me/p2Na5H-9r and The father of Lies – http://wp.me/p2Na5H-9B
I had hope that Cardinal Muller was quietly supporting the four brave Cardinals. This hurts. A lot.
Dear Terra, You and I both, however they can’t stop our reverence.
It’s great to hear from you and I hope that all is good with you! (praying for you)
Mass, Confession, Prayer and Adoration. We aren’t having a great time in France but we trust that God’s grace will protect us and you and everyone that knows the truth.
Kind regards,
Christopher.
Dearest Christopher,
Thank you for the encouragement and wise counsel. You inspired me to read John 16:33 and I was comforted.
You are in my prayers, as are all here at One Peter Five. I thank Our Lord for this site.
Your friend in Christ,
Terra
Dearest Terra, It’s a pleasure to know you and as you said 1Peter5 has filled a void that few catholic websites manage to deliver.
In Christ.
Christopher.
CCC 675.
The religious deception appears to be Pope Francis’ “Attraction Theology”, AKA “Comfort Theology”, AKA Protestantism; sell out the Lord and His teaching in order to make the faith “palatable”. That is, say you teach the truth until the truth becomes unpalatable and then cave and brazenly and shamelessly keep on saying you are teaching the truth and that no change has occurred even as wide and sweeping change has occurred.
Since Vatican 2 we have seen it with teaching on:
Hell
EENS
Real Presence
Other Religions/Religious indifferentism, etc
And now we are seeing it with:
Marriage/Divorce/Remarriage
Contraception
Now…as for why Müller would do this?
No idea but I must wonder if these our prelates are being blackmailed. How many are active or were active sodomites and/or have been involved in sodomite or pederast cover-ups in the past that they succeeded in hiding from the public?
I am not accusing any specific person, but I can only wonder as we see this massive collapse of apostasy within the prelature. There are REASONS for flipflops and for dodging the truth and for those who simply deny Catholic teaching. They don’t do it because they forgot the truth. They do it to advance an agenda or for base personal reasons.
Of course, there is always the possibility of 30 pieces of silver Euros…
Threats also play a role from those who are determined to destroy the Catholic faith – freemasonry and their acolytes.
So, he’s taking the “there is nothing to see here, move on, nothing to see here.” approach…and that’s not going to work. Hmmm, I wonder why there are Cardinal’s and Bishops promoting the opposite of what Cardinal Müller is saying? I wonder why whole Diocese are being told that it is now possible to receive Holy Communion while in an active state of adultery?
I’m certain that the vast majority of ‘remarried’ Catholics are convinced that they are justified in their actions and can easily find priests to agree with them and tell them to go forward.
Now Cardinal Müller needs to be corrected as well. It is not possible to read Amoris Laetitia in light of Settled Doctrine and not see it for what it is: a rupture.
Frank has tossed a firebrand into the brushpile.
All the snakes and vermin are squirting out the sides, visible now for all to see.
A painfully vivid metaphor.
Dear Father RP, It may be interesting if the Cardinal could be approached with the same original questions (DUBIA). In Christ. Christopher.
That already happed, the four Cardinal’s sent the dubia to Pope Francis and the CDF: Pope Francis has instructed Cardinal Müller to not answer them. So, new and different dubia would need to be submitted to him.
Wow. I had no idea of the Mafioso style.
Chaos reigns! Who can the faithful trust?
Christ can be trusted; mankind cannot. Jesus I trust in You!
“Praise the Lord, O my soul, in my life I will praise the Lord: I will sing to my God as long as I shall be. Put not your trust in princes:in the children of men, in whom there is no salvation.” (Ps 146)
Dear Fr RP,
The double entendre’ that Mueller lives has presented itself, it would seem, at least as long as he has befriended Gutierrez and co-authored a book with him, about Liberation Theology, if my memory remains at my service. At some level, there is a cognitive dissonance which flows from the knowledge of such relationships as that, when in spite of this, Pope Ratzinger placed a man like Mueller into the quintessential position which he occupies, as guardian of the doctrine of the Faith. This rests again, res ipsa loquitur as to precisely whom the wolves really are. Perhaps one is he who called for our prayers of protection, from those very same wolves at the nascent genesis of his pontificate, and as such the cry for prayers of protection from himself. Oh’ how bitter the irony. The masquerade that has been proffered over that past 60+ years is, to use a term of Ratzinger, unutterably stunning. In caritas.
I feel there is a connection between C. Mueller’s present position and the re-structuring of the CDF – Watch EWTN (towards the end of the video)
World Over – 2017-01-05 – Latest on Amoris Laetitia and
Vatican News with Raymond Arroyo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUvcqiIEvko
Report: Pope Francis ordered Cardinal Müller to dismiss three priests from doctrinal office
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/francis-boots-three-priests-out-of-cdf.-why-i-am-the-pope-i-do-not-need-to
Btw, we clearly see Arroyo on EWTN backing Card. Burke. This is great news and will be a wonderful support for these four cardinals in the long run. You can bet Mother Angelica is interceding right now..
Many Catholics are praying fervently for the faithful cardinals who have respectfully directed their well founded concerns to P. Francis. May the Holy Spirit give them continued courage to persevere, wisdom to discern how to move forward, and may many more clergy rise up to support them.
There is a spirit of fear in the air, but our clergy need to support these courageous cardinals.
Climate of fear in Vatican is very real
https://www.lifesitenews.com/blogs/climate-of-fear-in-the-vatican-is-very-real
My wife and I pray for them everyday. Prayers for them are even at our dinner table. We pray also for the unfaithful Cardinals, that they be converted or silenced, whichever Our Lord wills.
Amen. Let us also pray for C. Mueller – that he may correct the error he has made.
The confusion, division and cover up is shocking, showing us that the smoke of Satan is definitely within the Church, and must be cleansed.
Praying for them even at the dinner table is a good idea! I wish I’d thought of it. ?
“These aren’t the droids you’re looking for…”
Müller caved in to the Pope bully who ordered him to fire three of the most capable members of his dicastery. Presumably, his head was in danger and he did the best thing for himself.
I expect they’ll all cave in. This whole Dubia hubbub will end in nothing. First there was to be a public correction of the Pope. Now Card. Brandmüller is speaking about a correction in camera caritatis. After this they’ll perhaps find out that the Dubia letter actually was the correction and that no further ado is necessary at all.
All these men have much to lose and, when push comes to shove, they are not prepared to stick out their necks. They are having nightmares and pangs of conscience for fear of opposing a godless Pope. Boy oh boy, what would have become of the world if John the Baptist had had such fears before Herod? Or Thomas More and John Fisher before Henry VIII?
Cardinal Brandmuller said the correction would be in camera caritatis, not Cardinal Burke. That said, Brandmuller is one of the four… we’ll have to wait and see. But remember the Arian crisis… Athanasius contra minding. And remember how that turned out. We’re not abandoned. This is a time of trial and chastisement… let’s carry on through, no matter how hopeless it seems.
Point of Clarification: Cardinal Brandmüller said that the first instance of the formal correction would be in camera caritatis, just as the dubia were first issued privately and then made public when no reply was given. This means that if the correction does not have a positive effect it will then be made publicly as well.
We should be informed when it is in PF’s hands at least. Too much of a delay in waiting for an answer could be detrimental. Who knows what is in the pipeline at the rate things are happening.
Well, like the dubia we will not know anything until/unless that step becomes necessary due to the lack of positive cooperation by Pope Francis, which we will know of by his changing of his tune and answering the dubia in accord with the Catholic Faith (my opinion, but that is not going to happen.)
For all we know, the private correction may have already occurred: it don’t think it has, but that doesn’t mean that it hasn’t.
I would rather him not representing us at Fatima next May. It’s already four months since the Dubia was first sent to him. I think its time for an answer or a public announcement that no answer has been, or will be, received so that the next course of action can be brought forward.
Or maybe when he goes to Fatima he’ll be struck dead? I’m not hoping or anything, but that would certainly be a sign wouldn’t it?
We must leave the time & the place to God. I just pray he will see sense & relinquish the Papal Office which I don’t believe he was entitled to in the first place. Card. Burke came across as very serene & confident in the latest interview & it gives some hope that this impasse can actually be put to bed soon.
You beat me to it. I didn’t see your message. 🙂
My thoughts exactly
Remember the lightening strike on the dome of St. Peter’s when he was elected? If he dares to go to Fatima I can’t imagine him getting out alive.
That wasn’t forecast only the destruction of Rome, which is apparently very likely as bigger earthquakes are expected this year in the Naples area. Italy seems primed for the worst of it & I pray to St.Anthony of Padua & St. Dominic Savio for the victims every night. There is nothing more we can do as we haven’t the authority but too many people are bad-mouthing the four Cardinals when they should be actively supporting their efforts. We should be glad that some in the Hierarchy do see the moral danger in AL & are prepared to go the whole way with the formal correction. Schism has been on the cards since this Pontificate began & we shall have to face that if it comes. PF should be strongly encouraged to resign before that occurs!
It’s possible that the arrival of the correction privately will occasion a public outburst which we will hear about.
I’m confident that it will be leaked, and so it should. Why give them silence when we should be shouting from the rooftops.
Another boiling with rage moment?
I’m sure he thinks about it every day and my guess is he is quietly annoyed.
Good point! Thank you!
Correct, and THAT may already have occurred. Who knows.
Unless Bergoglio isn’t taking Burke’s calls…
I’ve got a mental picture of a delegation headed by Cardinal Burke, bursting past the Swiss Guards and into the Casa Santa Marta apartments, formal correction in hand and after searching all the rooms, eventually serving it upon Francis after discovering him hiding in the corner of a voluminous wardrobe behind all the papal vestments that he himself is too humble to wear.
That’s the picture I’d like to see! But I have mental picture of Cdl Burke being called to the Vatican, believing he is going to speak with the Pope, and immediately being arrested and thrown in one of the Vatican’s jail cells, such as the one where the Spanish priest Vallejo Balda spent many months in solitary, incommunicado and under surveillance 24 hours a day…and this was even before charges (of leaking information to the press).
Who’s to stop him? One of Bergoglio’s first acts was to fire the head of the Swiss Guards and replace virtually all of their senior people with his own picks. He has learned well from his life among Latin American dictators, and I wouldn’t put anything beyond (or beneath) him.
Thanks for the correction about Cards. Brandmüller and Burke. I have made readjustments in my post.
I retain hope that Burke, Caffara, Meisner, Brandmuller will not cave. Certainly Schneider would not cave even if they ripped out his fingernails with pliers.
I have confidence in Schneider.
I believe Bishop Schneider very concerned about what may happen to him for speaking out… but not from men. He’s worried about what Our Lord will say at his judgement… as all men of faith should. It’s almost an Athansius contra munda moment.
Could we be fortunate enough that a conclave elect him as the next pope? Unlikely, but possible!
Three of the four Cardinals are retired and beyond the reach of Bergoglio. The fourth has no fear of him. He wouldn’t ‘cave in’ if it meant his life. He serves Christ and has all his life.
Brothers and Sisters in Christ. Let’s keep this simple. A baptized man freely marries and consummate the marriage with a baptized woman, who is also consenting, forms a Sacramental union. ….. unless it’s not. –signed AL
“You can call me AL”.
Signed,
George Bergoglio
https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?fr=mcafee&p=youtube+you+can+call+me+al#id=1&vid=f2591c5ab853ea3eb96f89cd649b7baf&action=click
LOL!
And with all the deep theologizing of Chevy Chase!
Seriously, I listened to the sad sack lyrics and immediately the Pope and his popularity seeking allies came right to mind.
Ha! That made my day.
Are we to assume that the dormant half of the papacy is at one with the active half on this question?
Don’t be surprised by this, brethren. This was the fudge that Mueller and Schonborn cooked up when they went to visit ex-pope Benedict during the Synod on the family. It was with his blessing that the Germanic group came to a compromise paragraph in the Relatio Synodi that would allow the more “conservative” types to interpret the meaning more in line with FC, while the more liberal types could interpret it as a total rupture with FC.
It is the same M.O. that devastated the faith at Vatican II – intentional ambiguities permitting everybody to take the meaning from them which they preferred. As Mueller was one of those who cooked up the compromise (however reluctantly) he is not likely to start backing off now and saying that AL, which merely sustains the ambiguity, is contra fide.
After all, remember Cardinal Burke’s initial reaction to AL – it was one of saying: “This doesn’t change anything, its not even a magisterial document, there is nothing to see here.” However, his emphasis changed when he started to realize how it was being interpreted and for what it was being used to justify. Mueller is trying to jam the square peg in the round hole for whatever reason. Maybe its important to him to keep his red hat so that he can boast of his loyalty to a pope under attack at the next conclave – maybe he thinks he’s in with a chance. However, just saying: “There is nothing to correct here” doesn’t make it so. This is another game of the Emperor wearing beautiful new clothes.
His loyalty should not be to PF. It should only be to Jesus Christ. How unworthy are these successors to the First Apostles!
Actually, his loyalty is to both, with Jesus Christ above all. If he remains loyal to Jesus first he will be loyal to the Holy Father by correcting his many errors, but if he puts loyalty to the Pope and the appearance unity before absolute loyalty to Jesus Christ he will fail in both loyalties. Which, at least at the moment, is what he appears to be doing: serving both Jesus and the Pope poorly.
Of course, there should not be this problem in the first place. One’s loyalty to the Holy Father should never come into conflict with one’s loyalty to Jesus Christ, but it has, so one must still be loyal to both and one does that by being loyal to Christ and serving the Holy Father by holding fast to the Faith of Jesus Christ and consistently pointing out that faith to the Holy Father, even publicly.
St. Paul was not disloyal to St. Peter when he publicly corrected him to his face, he was actually serving him by calling him back to the Truth of Jesus Christ.
Well, in theory, there should be no problem, Father. But under this pontificate, it appears we’re learning that things once thought to be so inseparable can actually be mutually exclusive.
Sounds like the “God of surprises” as work.
(sarcasm off)
Agreed, however, it is because of the rampant Ultramontinism of the past 100+ years, especially since Vatican II, that has blinded even good Catholics to the obvious truth of the matter.
Before now some people have accused Bl. J H Newman of a being a liberal for his doubts about the wisdom of defining the infallibility of the Pope. However, I believe he foresaw the dangers of the Ultramontanist tendency if the papacy were to fall into the hands of another Honorius or Liberius. We are now paying the price of this and, as you say, have been doing so in a big way since V2.
With an ‘extended papacy’ I cannot make up my mind as to whom is the true pontiff. One is still wearing papal garments & residing in the Vatican precincts & the other, while wearing the white isn’t wearing the red shoes or papal cross etc. & lives in Casa Santa Marta. Until this quandary is completely settled without doubt I’m afraid my loyalty is in a frozen state to be thawed at a future date.
I had forgotten about their meeting; thank you for the reminder.
One may as well ask the President of MIT if 2 + 2 = 4 after he had dropped acid and declaimed that 2+ 2 = 5.
What is the point of all this?
Faithful Catholics know the labile Lutheran of the Holy See is jake with dispensing Holy Communion to adulterers (it was his idea) and there is more and worse to come.
There is not one damn thing that is going to happen to Franciscus, unless the Lord intervenes directly. He is Pope and he will remain Pope even if he were to say that Jesus became sin.
What’s that? O, yeah, Franciscus has already said that publicly and not one Cardinal corrected him (by referencing the Hypostatic Union and theology 101) or identified his Luciferian Lutheran Theology. If they let him lie about Jesus you think dispensing Holy Communion is any big deal in comparison to that?
Besides, the Catholic Church allows public usurers to receive Holy Communion; the Catholic Church allows public sodomites to receive Holy Communion; the Catholic Church allows public abortion supporters to receive Holy Communion, and the Catholic Church allows industrialists who pay illegal aliens illegal and immoral wages to receive Holy Communion and so if they who represent the Four Sins Crying to Heaven for Vengeance are allowed to receive Holy Communion, what is the big deal about allowing adulterers to receive Holy Communion?
What, you think the cardinals will follow through with a procedure so arcane and recondite that only nine trads are aware of it?
The vast majority of Catholics will dutifully follow the labile lutheran directly into Hell if they think it will avoid a scandal.
ALL of these petitions, dubias, etc amount to a hill of Mexican Jumping Beans – attention getting but, ultimately, directionless.
Franciscus has the power and he ain’t letting go of it and the Cardinals ain’t got the cojones to do what is required anymore than the Bishops during Vatican Two dared to walk-out of the Council and refuse to allow a revolution within the form of Catholicism.
No, we have become the Church of documents and procedures to be followed and conservative Catholics have forever been petitioning for this and that and pleading for the other thing when they should have just maintained what they were doing within Tradition and refused to submit to the diktats of the revolutionaries
He has the temporal power but not omnipotent power.
Burke and others WILL follow through. They were well aware of what they were doing and continue to draw strength and courage from the King they serve. We are the ones that need to stand steadfast in our prayers for them and the entire Church.
Will they?
You can’t even anticipate a statement forthcoming to the effect that what they have already done has been sufficient to raise the matter to the level where men of goodwill can see and support what is obviously the truth and that to pursue a legalistic course would add to the confusion of the common Catholic and that such a process would lead to a formal schism?
They can cite the Pope’s age (Franciscus could cleverly dodge the dubia by putting out rumors that he is thinking of retirement if his whip discovers a growing number of opposition votes to he and A.L.) and the apparent lack of interest in the Body of Christ about this contentious matter etc
There are scores of way to walk this back (as they say in political washington).
They did not strike when the iron was hot and now cooler heads are beginning to prevail.
It is also important to note that IANS has no idea what the hell he is talking about but he has never gone wrong in thinking that it is always darkest before the storm.
Burke and others will follow through. They are no strangers to ecclesiastical “craft.” They knew before it “didn’t happen” that PF would not answer. The clerical planet is so intertwined — all the “dirt” on Bergoglio was a known entity to all of them before he was elected, or at least twenty-four hours later. Information is power in such an inbred society. Things are transpiring we can’t know. That is not a comfort, but those who know how to swing through those limbs are pros — for good and ill.
God help us.
I believe this as well.
I do not believe Burke started this thing to just let it go. If that was his playbook he wouldn’t have publicly exposed the dubia in the first place. No, I think he will progress.
NOW…….
Where will it all go?
A public “Correction” will be a trigger point. It will for sure build a fence {Wall?} and sides will form on either side. Where that goes is anyone’s guess.
I tend to think Bergoglio and his ilk have found what they believe to be the {un}”Holy Grail” in doctrine;
1} DECLARE “NO CHANGE IN CHURCH TEACHING HAS OCCURRED” to satisfy the “orthodox” Catholics.
2} CHANGE PRACTICE AND PUBLICLY DECLARE WHATEVER YOU LIKE to satisfy the Communists and Freemasons.
Hey, this method is almost approaching status as “tradition” and seems to have worked in the Catholic Church on the doctrines and teaching on Hell, Capital Punishment, Other Religions/Religious indifferentism, EENS, etc, so why not with Marriage/Divorce/Remarriage, blessings of homosexual “unions”, communing of Protestants, and the rest?
If there is a schism (& that’s very likely) what will happen to Apostolic Succession? Can the heretics retain it against a public condemnation that the faithful shouldn’t follow them? I’m sure Canon Law comes into it & as Cardinal Burke is a top man in this sphere I hope he’ll enlighten us as to where we all stand in that outcome.
The solution requires the consecration of Russia to Mary’s Immaculate Heart of all bishops and the true pope, And an army, probably Russia’s, to purge Rome of the imposter freemasons running the Vatican. You are correct though, dubias, petitions, imperfect councils, etc., won’t amount to anything. Historically, changes in the Vatican required an Emperor Sigismund. We don’t have a Catholic confessional state, but Our Lady, I believe, is telegraphing to us that she has chosen Russia for this job.
Well, Catholic Prophecy is very interesting about future events in Italy, France, Russia, Germany, and England and the European powers seem determined to bring those prophecies (all conditional of course) to rapid fruition.
Throw in a potential massive volcanic eruption in Italy and one is reminded of the observation of David _ there is but one step between me and death.
Anybody surprised? This is Mueller, the guy who, if I recall correctly, regularly travels to South America to visit his theologically liberated chums Gutierrez, Boff, and comrades, no? These guys lost the plot years ago. Any signs of true orthodoxy are a mirage and I think we need to face up to that reality.
http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.co.uk/2017/01/radicati-editorial-why-are-you-shocked.html?m=1
We must ‘accompany’ them back to the One True Church for the sake of their immortal souls. The first step is in issuing the formal correction which has to be undertaken promptly in order to start the ball rolling back to Tradition. Trust in God & the Blessed Virgin.
He’s saying that the nullification of marriages can now be done by individuals according to their consciences in consultation with their pastors. How does this change in practice NOT entail a change in doctrine? Does he really believe we’re all just idiots who cannot instantly see through his shockingly stupid and transparent lie? Yes, he is lying. I will say it again – Cardinal Gerhard Muller is a liar. And it’s an extraordinarily dangerous and irresponsible lie since it places so many souls in peril of being forever lost.
The Pollyanna of Vatican Hill: “Every day, in every way the Church is becoming better & better.”
Remember that Mueller was made a “cardinal” by the anti-pope, so he is not really a true cardinal.
These guys live in glass houses with blinders on!!! Look at the state of the Flock worldwide… most act like Protestants instead of The People of God and they have a vague understanding of the Faith, if any, due to crap catechisis for the past 50 years…
The Fatima visionaries told of a pope in white wandering through the destroyed Vatican:
“And we saw in an immense light that is God: ‘something similar to how people appear in a mirror when they pass in front of it’ a Bishop dressed in White ‘we had the impression that it was the Holy Father’…. … the Holy Father passed through a big city half in ruins and half trembling with halting step, afflicted with pain and sorrow….”
Might not the “Bishop in white” correspond to Benedict XVI?
Have we not reached the point of the “big city half in ruins”?
The bishop in white could also be Bishop Bergoglio, if he was not validly elected.
Thanks for this input. I thought about this also — I had read the prophecy many years ago and really forgot whom it came from. Lately, it came to mind and I thought that it might be Benedict XVI. Why? Because there should not be two popes. The Catholic Church should have not been in such vitriolic disarray and an ailing pope should be able to see his work go on properly through obedient clergy whom because of respect would peacefully “carry-on.” But since we have had such vast, fast, quick, and ever-ongoing “changes” in the last 100 years, the real pope cannot stay and ride out the chaotic storm. By now in the 2nd millennium, we should know what our Church should be doing and if a pope needs some years to pass away in illness, the Church should be able to exist peacefully until his demise. God grants these things. If the Church is going to get chastised, God will want the pure contrition of the one responsible for steering the boat. Who do you think would have purer contrition in the case of a Godly Chastisement – Benedict XVI or Pope Frances? I’m thinking Benedict XVI will be able to fill the bill when the time comes…if it comes in this generation.
The last several Popes did nothing about the reception of Communion by Mario Cuomo, Ted Kennedy, Nancy Pelosi, and the like. Cardinals Wuerl, Dolan, and O’Malley have spouted for years the same lies designed to nullify Canon 915 that we have been hearing in the past six months. John Paul II and Benedict are equally responsible with Bergoglio for the current chaos.
This is the New Gnosticism. “All that stuff that seemed so plainly evident as the true teaching of the Church for thousands of years? Forget that. We’re tuned into the God of surprises and you’re not.”
We pray He will surprise them very soon, but not in a nice way.
WOW, BLASPHEMING THE HOLY SPIRIT IS NOT A DANGER TO THE FAITH???? https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/3f29e6f7d317bc7cd0e06af02e2284c1672481e876de1e7e7f5b0347689db543.jpg
One of my son’s friends, whose family are traditional Catholics, always says to him, “Keep the faith!”
Out of the mouths of babes. Now that’s what I call defending the truth.
Muller seemed to be fence-sitting for a while, but looks like he woke up very scared yesterday and it got to him. And he scrambled down from the fence on the wrong side.
Maybe he’ll climb back up on the railing again at some point and will fall the other way. Either way, he’s proved himself to be unreliable. Not a man of principle, but a man of expedience. Quite useless when it comes to defending the truth. Just another Henry VIII-type bishop.
Laudetur Iesus Christus!
Please, remember me in your prayers.
I will do my best to do that. Heads up! Don’t get discouraged — in the end the Lord will have His way. We can rely on that.
Thank you
One thing is clear from this interview: the four cardinals will not get a public response to the dubia, which means they must proceed in some fashion with a correction. That is a very good thing. I think Müller deserves some credit here for paving the way for concrete action. It may not have been his intent – indeed his assertion that there is no danger to the faith is disingenuous at best, delusional at worst – but it was the result. I look forward to developments in the near future.
Maybe Cdl. Müller is just trying to calm things down to try and stop even more turnover of faithful Catholicism in Rome. Cdl. Müller may be a bit soft, but I’d rather him in his position than whoever his replacement would be. Faithful Catholics must resist heterodoxy, but they must also learn to bide their time.
The communists who infiltrated the Church in the 1920’s knew to tow the party line at first- to appear to be faithful when they really were unfaithful. They were formed and ordained by bishops chosen by Pope St. Pius X. If Satan’s agents can grow unnoticed under Pope St. Pius X, then God’s agents can grow unnoticed under Francis.
He’s looking after his own back & adding fuel to the fire by so doing. We don’t want another sixty years of this treachery. We need to get the job done now, in the open, nothing behind closed doors, all transparently. The Devil works in the dark – we are children of the Light.
I’ll give you all one guess as to who said this today regarding Europe’s crisis of refugee overload problems:
“In response to currents of divisiveness, it is all the more urgent to update ‘the idea of Europe’ so as to give birth to a new humanism based on the capacity to integrate, dialogue and generate that which made the Old Continent great,” he said.
Come, Lord Jesus.
He’s kidding, right?
I guess we know now why he hasn’t been sacked. Thanks, Cardinal Mueller.
No one forces the pope. The Holy Father should be moved by the love he has for Christ to provide clarity on the most serious of issues. And to do so joyfully and without condition. This is the point of the four Cardinals and I’m confident cardinal mueller knows this as well. May he take the time to reflect and repent
I agree that your assessment accurately describes the hope and desire of the 4 Cardinals but I am NOT confident in Müller not even one bit. I do not trust the man even a little bit. His statement if it doesn’t represent a cowardly capitulation by the 4 Cardinals must represent a stab in the back to all 4 of them.
I was okay with the cardinal up to this point. He has had the Dubia for as long as the Holy Father, and only now does he decide to respond to them, which coincidently is after his friends are fired. The Pope is not God. Why I find myself pointing this out to other Catholics I don’t know but we, collectively, have very grave misunderstandings about our faith we supposedly believe. Matter of fact, it’s time for every prelate to publically profess our creed.
I see no evidence of PF’s love of Christ nor most of his followers within the Vatican & Episcopates. Maybe you can direct me with examples?
He said “should be”.
I agree. And I hope PF sees the “mess” he has made and converts.
But he came to the Papacy to make a mess. He said so himself. An old dog cannot learn new tricks even if they were to save his life. But then, does he really believe there is a Triune God & an afterlife? Everything he says & does would lead one to believe he doesn’t. Neither do the other NWO advocates but they are all in favour of tyranny despite all the false ecumenism & mercy. Take a step against them & your done.
He did, just as you say. Just as HE said.
That’s why we must pray for his conversion.
Cardinal Mueller is giving the impression of being lukewarm on this issue. The stakes are too high as the formation of the faithful is at stake. It just doesn’t feel right…he says this after the Holy Father chooses to move his very close friends from their position…..yet does this feel as if this was some Hollywood production??
In a world so prone to denying simple realities as well as those exhibited by human behavior, is it any wonder the Faith finds itself in peril while all go about consumed by their own agendas. I thought Rome was on the Tiber, but it appears rather to be on denial.
Man, made in the image and likeness of God, one wonders where there is one sufficiently endowed to address rude realities.
I thought we might have one in Cardinal Muller, but alas…
Do you think this has anything to do with the priests being dismissed by the pope???! As in being given his marching orders?!
It’s certainly followed on the heels of the merciless sacking arrived at after non-dialogue.
http://archdpdx.org/documents/2016/10/PASTORAL%20LETTER%20A%20True%20and%20Living%20Icon%20FINAL%20-%20Updated%20101016-2.pdf
Archbishop Sample identified 3 specific dangers.
Anyone know if Sample has commented since the Dubia Affair has been made known?
Not on this. Of course, this is a bit of a thin time of year- maybe now that the holidays are over, he’ll have a chance to get back to his Voice of the Shepherd Radio Show:
http://materdeiradio.com/category/the-voice-of-the-shepherd/
Which hasn’t had a new episode since December, and which has been having assistant Bishop Peter Smith filling in a lot lately.
I’m curious as I know he and our Bishop Christensen are friends and the latter has not responded to my tweets nor made any public statement I’m aware of pertaining to AL. In fact, when I wrote him a letter about it he said that suggestions that AL includes any heresy are “unjustified”.
Archbishop Sample’s letter indicates the same thing- that interpretations of AL that are heretical (we can no longer deny that such exist) are inherently unjustified.
To me this is simple sophistry and exhausting to navigate through.
The Misuse of the Internal Forum isn’t new. Here is a letter to the Catholic Exchange about it from a decade ago:
http://catholicexchange.com/misuse-of-internal-forum
At one point, the Jesuits were formally censored because of their regular abuse of the internal forum.
Archbishop Sample’s letter separates this out into three “Misuse” statements of Amoris Laetitia, but it’s the same thing- abuse of the internal forum, which has been going on in the Church for a *very* long time. It is one of the basic dangers that came about with the seal of the confessional.
So bitterly disheartening that Muller has chosen his boss over the Lord.
“No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other.”
The prophesies of Akita and Fatima are playing out before our eyes – cardinal against cardinal, in the last days the battle will be over marriage and family – very ominous in this the centennial year of Our Lady of Fatima.
Sister Lucia: “Final Confrontation between the Lord and Satan will be over Family and Marriage.”
https://onepeterfive.wpengine.com/sister-lucia-final-confrontation-between-the-lord-and-satan-will-be-over-family-and-marriage/
God is separating the wheat from the chaff. We must invoke the power of the Holy Spirit in this spiritual battle.
and the Lord caused them to babel https://nonvenipacem.com/2017/01/10/let-us-build-ourselves-a-city-with-a-tower-that-reaches-to-the-heavens-so-that-we-may-make-a-name-for-ourselves/
We used to call what we see here “circumlocution,” a deliberate attempt to avoid clarity. The situation after the cardinal’s intervention remains unchanged, and the embarrassing question still presents itself: If things are so bloody clear with Amoris laetitia, then why does the pope not simply answer the dubia? Why does he use front men to blow smoke in everyone’s eyes and to denigrate the cardinals who have doubts? And why is practice emerging in several dioceses that is at variance with that of others?
Has there been an editing done of his reply?
The reason I ask this was that you published an article saying that Muller said something then later on found out that Schonborn’s staff has edited his statement.
So, do we get the full interview here?
If so, then something terrible must have happened.
I would not put it down to cowardice or fear of being taken out of his job.
So while this is all quite damning for him if this report is the entirety of it, I hold out my opinion precisely because of what he said just a couple of months ago.
Here are my reservations: for one thing, in this interview he said he was surprised that the Dubia has been published. But in the other interview he does not say this when it was already published then.
So something is fishy here.
I’d be interested in knowing this, too, but then…
In a sense, who cares?
I mean, What we really NEED is a “Hammer” in the CDF, a MAN who is willing to simply restate CATHOLIC Truth anywhere and anytime and ALL the time, hammering it home constantly. Such a man could be misinterpreted and no one would care because his positions would be so crystal clear in their quantity that a single misquote wouldn’t matter.
But that has simply not panned out to be Müller.
Cardinal Müller: the Stupak of the Catholic Church. American readers will understand this. (Stupak was a “pro-life” Democrat that compromised with the culture of death after a grand show of resistance).
Good God, the following sounds like Henry VIII trying to figure out how to get rid of Catherine of Aragon!!!! OMG. OMG. OMG.
“……In this context, the Pope refers to the “individual cases” in situations in which no clarity can be achieved by the Church, but where a single person, in his conscience, and after careful consultation with his confessor, honestly comes to the conviction of the invalidity of his first marriage…..”
Hit that right on the head
Three centuries before, in Quito, Ecuador, on January 20, 1610, Our Lady appeared carrying a crozier in Her right hand and her Divine Son in her left arm so that, “all will know that I am merciful and understanding. Let them come to me, for I will lead them to Him.” She told Mother Mariana that in the twentieth century, “the passions will erupt and there will be a total corruption of customs, for Satan will reign almost completely by means of the Masonic sects. They will focus particularly on the children in order to achieve this general corruption. Woe to the children of these times.” Obviously, she is speaking of the secular humanist revolution about which so much has been written that has completely invaded the secular as well as religious institutions of our times.
(It is surprising to see Our Lady referring to the Masonic sect already at the beginning of the 17th century. It was only in the 17th century that Freemasonry generally looks for the first emergence of the structure that has filtered down to us today. However, Freemasonry was closely connected to the Rosicrusianism and can be traced even to sects that existed in the Middle Ages.)
Our Lady continued, describing the abuses that would attack each of the Sacraments: “Woe to the children of these times because it will be difficult to receive the Sacrament of Baptism and also that of Confirmation.” She warned that the devil would assiduously try to destroy the sacrament of Confession and Holy Communion. She lamented the many sacrileges and abuses of the Blessed Sacrament that would occur. The Sacrament of Extreme Unction would be little esteemed and many people would die without receiving it, thus denied assistance they would need for that “great leap from time to Eternity.”
The Sacred Sacrament of Holy Orders would be ridiculed, oppressed and despised. The demon would labor unceasingly to corrupt the clergy and would succeed with many of them. And these “depraved priests, who will scandalize the Christian people, will incite the hatred of the bad Christians and the enemies of the Roman, Catholic and Apostolic Church to fall upon all priests. This apparent triumph of Satan will bring enormous sufferings upon the good pastors of the Church.”
A001_FreeLove.jpg – 41268 Bytes
The hippie revolution ushered in free love and a breakdown of morals
About the Sacrament of Matrimony, which symbolizes the union of Christ with His Church, she said this: “Masonry, which will then be in power, will enact iniquitous laws with the objective of doing away with this Sacrament, making it easy for everyone to live in sin. … The Christian spirit will rapidly decay, extinguishing the precious light of Faith until it reaches the point that there will be an almost total and general corruption of customs.
In these unhappy times, there will be unbridled luxury that would conquer innumerable frivolous souls who will be lost. Innocence will almost no longer be found in children, nor modesty in women. In this supreme moment of need of the Church, those who should speak will fall silent.”
They have infiltrated govenment, medicine, law enforcement, religion and most importantly they usurped the papacy in 1914.
Cf. The Apocalyptic Beasts – http://wp.me/p2Na5H-ol
*
Cf. Pope Francis Now International Monetary Guru? – http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-01-09/pope-francis-now-international-monetary-guru. The innovators don’t hide anymore whose agenda it is that they are promoting.
*
usurped the papacy in 1914 – evidence for this?
Evidence: Part I the deaths:
On June 28th of 1914 16+ freemasons conspired in the murder of the crown prince of the
Austro-Hungarian empire, Archduke Franz Ferdinand. The conspirators attempted suicide by cyanide pill, I recollect, but the pills did not work. They were captured, investigated and tried.Investigation uncovered their Masonic affiliations and the conspiratorial direction of a muchlarger organizaton. All the defendants had terminal tuberculosis. The reward for their participation in the conspiracy was to be death benefits applied to descendents. While the Austro-Hungarian empire could not be strictly considered a Catholic confessional state,nevertheless the Catholic faith was the faith of the Monarchy. The treaty connections of European nations assured that war would be inevitable.
On August 20th, 1914, Pope Pius X died supposedly of a broken heart. Not 24 hours before,the Superior General of the Jesuits, the black pope, Father Wernz, a German, died, also, allegedly of a broken heart. Pius X was frantically attempting a reapprochment between the disputing parties, to no avail, when he suddenly, unexpectedly, died. At first, the press reported that they died of broken hearts, then later reported that they may have died of a cold, or a heart attack or a stroke. Whatever. The press treated their amazing simultaneous deaths as a natural occurrence, after all old men die. But these old men died after a paralysis of the body that spread from the legs to the trunk of the body and finally to the head. The last remaining faculties were eyesight and cognition. These are not the symptoms of a broken heart, pneumonia, a heart attack or a stroke. They do match the symptoms of hemlock poisoning. These old men were in the way of a money man’s good war. That is why they were murdered.
Evidence: Part II: Messing with Pius X’s Apostolic Constitution:
The rules of the conclaves (the meetings that elect the popes) are set by the previous reigning pope in an Apostolic Constitution. Pius X’s rules for the next conclave were set in January of 1905 — and most unusually were to be held in secret until the death of Pius X. As my husband put it, rules made in secret can be changed in secret. Never before had the proceedings of a papal conclave been proposed to be held forever in secret. And that I believe is exactly what happened.Catholics have an obligation to follow a true and validly elected pope. The proceedings of the conclaves prior to 1914 were publically known, before, during and after the conclaves. Beginning with the 1914 conclave, all the proceedings, before, during and after the conclaves were supposed to be held in strict secrecy. Pius X crafted several oaths in order to maintain Catholic loyalty to the faith. One of those oaths was the oath of a cardinal. No where in that oath is any mention made of maintaining secrecy during a conclave. If conclave secrecy had been of paramount importance to Pius X he would have mentioned it in his Cardinal’s Oath. Freemasons live by secrecy, especially at their meetings. The present Oath of secrecy of the Cardinals does not satisfy any of the criteria of moral theology for keeping a secret. St. Alphonsus Liguori qualifies a secret of trust, the highest ranking and of the greatest stridency of obligation, by saying that it would not hold true if the breach of faith were to work grave injury to the common weal. Faithful Catholics cannot possibly know whether the canonical rules were followed at the conclave of 1914 to elect a true and valid pope. This election effected all subsequent elections, to this very day. This form of secrecy has the potential to hide moral wrongdoing and results that harm the commonweal.
I believe this change in the Apostolic Constitution, that is, perpetual secrecy of the conclave proceedings and results, was made without the knowledge or approval of Pius X. It was therefore illegal and invalidates the results of the conclave of 1914.
Evidence: Part III: The Takeover:
Anyone paying attention to Msgr. Jouin in 1903 and the conclave following the death of Pope Leo XIII, would be alerted to attempts by freemasons to infiltrate the papacy. Msgr. Jouin is said to have been the investigator who approached Emperor Franz Joseph of the Austro-Hungarian empire to veto the nomination of Cardinal Mariano Rampolla to the papacy , at the conclave of 1903, due to his discovery of Rampolla’s freemasonic connections. Cardinal Rampolla died in December 1913. His understudy, Giacomo della Chiesa, became Pope Benedict XV in September of 1914, at a conclave whose secrets will forever be held by the participants but unknown to the people for whom the knowledge is most necessary – the Catholic faithful.
There is documented evidence of Rampolla’s masonic membership. He was listed by
freemasons as a freemason by the testimony of Msgr. Jouin. Della Chiesa being a close associate of Rampolla would have known this and likely was a mason himself. The history of his papacy and the rollback of Pius X’s initiatives against modernism are sufficient smoking gun evidence for a direct takeover and usurption of the papacy by freemasons, a satanic heretical criminal cult.
Excellent.
Thank you!
“…Three centuries before, in Quito, Ecuador, on January 20, 1610, Our Lady appeared carrying a crozier in Her right hand and her Divine Son in her left arm…”
I just noticed it might not only be coincidence: 407 years later another day for America, January 20, 2017. We need to pray, as Mary is asking of us: January 2, 2017 Message to Mirjana
“Dear children, My Son was the source of love and light when he spoke on earth to the people of all peoples. My apostles, follow His light. This is not easy. You must be little. You must make yourselves smaller than others; with the help of faith to be filled with His love. Not a single person on earth can experience a miraculous experience without faith. I am with you. I am making myself known to you by these comings, by these words; I desire to witness to you my love and motherly care. My children, do not waste time posing questions to which you never receive an answer. At the end of your journey on earth, the Heavenly Father will give them to you. Always know that God knows everything; God sees, God loves. My most beloved Son illuminates lives, dispels darkness; and my motherly love which carries me to you is inexpressible, mysterious but real. I am expressing my feelings to you: love, understanding and motherly benevolence. Of you, my apostles, I am asking for your roses of prayer which need to be acts of love. To my motherly heart these are the dearest prayers. I offer these to my Son who was born for your sake. He looks at you and hears you. We are always close to you. This is the love which calls, unites, converts, encourages and fulfills. Therefore, my apostles, always love one another and above all, love my Son. This is the only way to salvation, to eternal life. This is my dearest prayer which fills my heart with the most beautiful scent of roses. Pray, always pray for your shepherds that they may have the strength to be the light of my Son. Thank you.”
Just hear from RadioMaryja.pl… 20 January inauguration day of President Donald Trump
He’s walking a tightrope, most likely after being pushed by the Pope himself. Picking a paper that will not press him into a corner was the means where he said what he thought was not too offensive to anyone. You either chose one side or the other otherwise you will be sent out again to clarify or agree to some other stretch of the imagination. At this point Muller may be of more use in the CDF than outside of it for Catholics. I don’t think he will be kept there much longer with Francis’ temper. The Dictatorship of Mercy rolls on.
The “Dictatorship of Mercy”…I like that one!
Where does one begin! This wreaks of Cardinal Mueller’s fear of losing his position and bending into a pretzel to make a wrong right.. It is disingenuous and crafty like AL itself. Oh so this is only for those who through the ‘normal church process’ can’t figure out whether a person really had the understanding of what they were getting into? So are we supposed to believe that the Marriage Trubunal is not capable of asking some very pointed questions to receive a clear answer in order to determine whether the person was aware of what they were getting into in a marriage or not? So this is only for those teeny weeny minute little cases where the ‘normal church process’ cannot come to an answer, but these ever so few persons can go to Confession and with the priest and their conscience come to a resolution that was just way too difficult for the Marriage Tribunal?
.I am only a humble lay person but Cardinal Mueller…… seriously? If you truly believed what you have just stated in your interview that nothing has changed then why, as the CDF head have you not sent letters to Cardinals and Bishops of Austria, Germany, Argentina, Belgium and Switzerland and dispensed a Spiritual Work of Mercy to admonish or give counsel to THEIR mistaken understanding of AL and attempted to clarify it to prevent sacrilege in their ‘pastoral accompaniment’ and for all of the faithful throughout the world who are shaking their heads in disbelief about this circus and the eroding credibility of so many of you who are losing ground with your flock. The only answer can be that your boss does not want the dubia answered because it would reveal the Truth. Cardinal Burke’s words are serene, wise, clear, faithful to Christ and Church Tradition. The truth shall set you free Cardinal Mueller and maybe more importantly….the many exhausted faithful who await a sincere Voice crying out in the wilderness.
Be sure to check out Edward Pentin’s piece on this, very interesting details: http://www.ncregister.com/blog/edward-pentin/cardinal-muellers-tv-interview-causes-bewilderment
One of many interesting things:
“Another senior official went further, revealing to the Register last week that Cardinal Müller had told him personally that the CDF “had submitted many, many corrections, and not one of the corrections was accepted”. He added that what the cardinal states in the interview “is exactly the contradictory of everything which he has said to me on the matter until now” and he had the “impression of someone who was not speaking for himself but repeating what someone else had told him to say.”
Yes, this man is acting the part of a zombie-like Stepford Wife.
Most bizarre and clearly there is much more to this than simply the reflective words of a prefect.
I just finished reading the Remnant interview with Cardinal Burke and the contrast between these two men is dramatic.
I wish someone would leak those 20 pages from the CDF rejected by PF. Then stand back and let the contents gather in the Cardinals. It was good to read Pentin’s piece because otherwise we’d never have heard that many episcopal conferences have asked for clarification, and 30 Cardinals sent reservations prior to release of AL.That all gives us some hope that behind the scenes there are some good people there!
Well maybe Benedict’s butler could leak a few docs…but I digress…
What profiteth a man …
Well we knew that the CDF had produced many pages of corrections prior to AL being published but follow-up news went dry. He cannot, in conscience, therefore lay any blame on the four Cardinals for publishing their Dubia when it was being ignored by PF, or in saying they will follow-up with a formal correction after Christmas. The situation warrants such action & his recent interview saying that AL doesn’t go against the faith is a scandal. It actually allows people in grave sin to receive Holy Communion (even those from outside the CC altogether) & is proving to be a moral disaster of huge proportions. If it is allowed to become part of the ordinary Magisterium PF will have succeeded in re-writing the Ten Commandments as you cannot intervene & reinvent the praxis of one without it having the same effect on all the others & PF et al know this only too well. It is imperative that the Dubia/formal correction succeeds &, if PF’s silence continues we must be kept informed as to what has next to take place in order to restore order in the CC.
For decades most Bishops and clergy have given Holy Communion to public and notorious sodomites and supporters of child murder. The CHURCH in the US has become a NGO for the US government, collecting billions for its CCHD programs and Catholic Charaties. It counts on the migrants it resettles to fill the pews that 30 million have left vacant since the 60’s. We have been sold for the money. It only gets worse. When the Pope and most Bishops and clergy will no longer uphold the Faith, what is one to do. This is just the culmination of the heresy. The abolition of sin. Is there a time when these heretic hold such control that the Catholic Church is elsewhere. Should we be shocked it has come to this? The real Catholic Bishops left are few and dwindling. In the twilight of life, what is one to do? I fear for loved ones to come.
This is the New Age Catholic Church we a witnessing. Throw out the Tradition then bring in a New Age with new teachings. The Traditional teachings are just a monkey wrench holding back what the Modernists progressive agenda to change the Church. This is an attack on the Holy Eucharist and the Sacraments of the Holy Church. This New Age Vatican has a diabolical hatred for the Catholic Traditionalists, their Traditional Liturgy and Doctrines. Pope Francis is pushing this agenda very forcefully and that is why he will not answer the five questions of the Dubia. He wants to give the Holy Eucharist to people in Mortal Sin. He wants to rehablitate Martin Luther in the Catholic Church. He wants women to be Deacons. He wants a New Age Church that will not resemble the Traditional Catholic Church. Will Pope Francis get away with this? That is a good question.
Agreed do you have any advice.
Stay with Tradition. It has helped tens of thousands of people become Saints. This New Age Catholicism where someone in Mortal Sin can receive the Holy Eucharist has not come up with saint and will never become a saint. Unless they convert to the Traditional teaching that is protected by the Holy Spirit.
The prophesies of Akita and Fatima are playing out before our eyes – cardinal against cardinal, in the last days the battle will be over marriage and family – very ominous in this the centennial year of Our Lady of Fatima.
Sister Lucia: “Final Confrontation between the Lord and Satan will be over Family and Marriage.”
https://onepeterfive.wpengine.com/sister-lucia-final-confrontation-between-the-lord-and-satan-will-be-over-family-and-marriage/
I believe Müller just signed his own pink slip in the coming purified Church.
The prophesies of Akita and Fatima are playing out before our eyes –
* cardinal against cardinal,
* in the last days the battle will be over marriage and family –
very ominous in this the centennial year of Our Lady of Fatima.
This cardinal has betrayed his Lord.
Is Cardinal Müller calling the Holy Spirit a Liar in His teachings of the Holy Church? Cardinal Müller should really think and contemplate what he is saying here. Those who are convinced they are not in Adultery are in Adultery and can not receive the Sacraments period. Anything else is against the Catholic Church. There is no splitting hairs in this action. The National Catholic Reporter has attacked Cardinal Burk and EWTN, now has hailed these comments as justification for their actions and now are pushing more forcefully for women priests. NCR just will not go away and are more embolden to progress more and more with this Pope.
Do you mean the NCReporter?
Yes ! I will edit it. Thanks !
Where has the Church practiced this and on what basis?
*
Can. 1061 §3. An invalid marriage is called putative if at least one party celebrated it in good faith, until both parties become certain of its nullity. – http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_P3V.HTM
*
Can. 12. If anyone says that matrimonial causes do not belong to ecclesiastical judges, let him be anathema. – The Council of Trent – https://www.ewtn.com/library/COUNCILS/TRENT24.HTM
And this thing of skirting the law via the confessional, haven’t the innovators already put this into practice as regards Humanae Vitae (July 25, 1968) | Paul VI?
*
Cf. The Abyss – http://wp.me/p2Na5H-8J
The article quotes Cardinal Müller as disapproving of the publication of the dubia on the grounds that it is “almost to force the pope to answer ‘yes’ or ‘no'”.
Well, your Eminence, is it not a pope’s God-given responsibility to proclaim and constantly reaffirm Church Teaching? Or is this pope different? (Second question is strictly rhetorical).
Divine intervention appears to be the only solution to the collapse of the Catholic Church taking place before our eyes. Our Lady of Fatima predicted this would happen. Now it is. We await the denouement with prayers and penance.
Hi Michael – the Sacramental Church will survive and thrive. The Institutional Church? That depends on the magisterium, and whether Francis has the humility to resign, as he promised he would.
Perhaps he might consider resigning after an act of God–not likely before.
Hi Michael – God is separating the sheep from the goats. All in His Good Time. It would be ironic though if Francis was undone be the precise mechanism used to oust Benedict. “Hoisted with his own petard”, as Shakespeare so aptly put it. We definitely live in interesting times.
That’s what should happen – what’s good for the goose is good for the gander.
Hi Ana – The Ganders never seem to understand that until it’s too late. Something to do with their tendency toward excessive hubris, I guess. Such is the quality of the ultimate effect of Divine Justice on the Ganders of this world. I think I have heard it referred to as “what goes around, comes around.”
The Cardinals are within their rights to ask the Pope to clarify his ambiguous teachings. That he refuses to answer brings into question whether the ambiguity was intentional, and a furtherance of the tactics used at Vatican II to bring about disorder and confusion within the Church. Francis is revealing to whom his allegiance lies – The Lord of Truth and Clarity who reigns in heaven, or the lord of lies and deceptive practices who reigns in hell. Aligning ourselves to the Word or the world, that is the choice we all must make. It really isn’t that difficult of a decision to make for those who love the Lord of Truth. The Truth exposes the lie, every time, and then it only remains for us to reject the lie, and the liars who wish to establish the deception.
Et tu Brute? Or should that be Judas? Words fail me!
I agree, Francis is the successor of Judas.
I’ve just listened to a telephone interview given by Cardinal Burke to Michael Matt of the Remnant Newspaper concerning the lack of response by PF to the Dubia on the voxcantor.blogspot.com.
It is gratifying to note that the four Cardinals are intent to have the questions they raise in the Dubia clarified & are going to stick to their principles without flinching, as unfortunately Cardinal Müller has. Cardinal Burke iterated that while Cardinals have lost their red hats in the past he hasn’t the time to think about that possibility, but in any case it is his/their duty to make sure that material heresy doesn’t become part of the Magisterium of the CC. All he wants us to do is to keep them in our prayers & stick fast to the old faith as what has resulted since VII has nothing to do with that Council or the constant teaching of Mother Church.
This is a great interview, one that is very encouraging at this time.
“what has resulted since VII has nothing to do with that Council” Well, he’s wrong about that but it sounds like a good interview overall…
Actually AL does undermine the Faith. Why doesn’t the good Cardinal know this?
Not only does it call into question several Sacraments but casts serious doubts
about the dogma of the Immaculate Conception of Our Lady. If those in mortal sin (adultery) may receive Christ into their souls then why was it necessary for Mary to be
conceived without original sin..? …because God chooses to live in those who are without sin.
This is an excellent point and in fact it is one of the main differences between Catholicism and other non-Catholic denominations.
Kudos!
Perhaps Cardinal Muller is taking a political pragmatic view as follows: He knows that Pope Francis will not answer the dubia or clarify the matter and that trying to force him to do so will only lead to greater confusion and scandal. He probably knows PF better than most people. Better to assert that Amoris Laetitia is orthodox and maintain himself in his position at the CDF to await the day that he is free to issue instructions to enforce the orthodox view. If he took a strong line against the Pope he might be sacked and someone like Schonbern be put in his place and any chance of correcting unorthodox interpretations of AL will be lost. Maybe Cardinal Muller will not have to wait too long for the field to be cleared for corrections and perhaps he sees waiting as desirable and knows something we do not know.
However in the meantime enormous and growing damage will be done to the family and any eventual correction might be so fraught as to lead to a major schism on the part of the unorthodox. Cardinal Muller may be making a fine call.
I respectfully disagree, Mr. Bellord. Cardinal Mueller is serving as a fig leaf to the orthodox, making them (us) think that, well, at least the Prefect of the CDF has our back. But he doesn’t. He’s been sidelined long ago. He’s irrelevant.
No, better that he be sacked and Cardinal Cupich be named prefect, or Cardinal Tobin or Tagle. Put the apostates front and center, let them show themselves and what they’re about. Give them the reins they desire. This will bring clarity (instead of the present ambiguity). Catholics will have a clear choice: the religion of Jesus Christ or the religion of man.
If you’re able, I would encourage all here to write to Cardinal Mueller to encourage him to do what is right, regardless of where he is now. I read elsewhere (from Edward Pentin I think) that there are reliable sources saying that the Cardinal may have been coerced one way or another to say what he did, and that the CDF issued “many, many corrections” of AL for Francis to ratify, but all were rejected. If true, the Cardinal could be afraid for whatever reason. However, if the faithful write, and encourage him, perhaps he will be finally become courageous and do what is needed. I don’t have any more information than this, and I would HOPE that this is coercion and not what he believes. I could be very wrong, but many of us called Cardinal Burke a traitor and a coward for some time before the dubia were made known to us. Granted, Mueller has done far, far worse than stay silent, but a man can change… Pray for courage for Muller and all of our Shepherds. We live in perilous times.
The Cardinal’s postal address:
His Eminence Gerhard Cardinal Mueller
Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith
Piazza del S. Uffizio, 11, 00193
Roma, Italy
Phone: 06.69.88.88.33.57; 06.69.88.34.13
Cardinal Mueller needs to know who will support him in the Catholic faith when Our Lady makes her move. I only hope his heart and soul are on the side of Christ.
During his recent interview with The Remnant relayed by voxcantor.blogspot.com he said:-
what I’m afraid of is to have to appear before Our Lord at the Last Judgment and having to say to Him: “No, I didn’t defend You when You were being attacked, the truth that You taught was being betrayed.” I think he will stay the course.
That was Cardinal Burke, not Cardinal Mueller.
My mistake – I misread her post.
I have been fuming about Cdl Muller’s providing cover for Francis, although I must admit he didn’t look very happy about it and when you read what he said, it was pretty carefully worded. However, where I really disagree is with his comment that this doesn’t threaten the Faith. It certainly does, because its premises undermine the very foundations of the Faith and doctrine, as well as the universality of the Church. And this is in fact causing great confusion and distress to the faithful, both clergy and lay.
Certainly, encouraging him wouldn’t hurt. But it would also be good to let him know that this is actually a threat to the Faith and to the faithful, and we perceive it that way. Frankly, it’s a struggle for me to go to Mass these days and hear the Francis babble. I also know that our bishop, a devout if rather weak man, is completely confused and overwhelmed by all of this. So yes, it is a threat, and Cdl Muller shouldn’t just airily dismiss it.
I wholeheartedly agree… and that’s why I think writing might help. No guarantees… worth a shot though, right?
“does not threaten the faith” – I think his comment needs to be understood in the context of pluralism (of any and all understandings of Jesus and His message) which flood the Church today. What has been occurring for decades is that the faith exists in competition with a whole bunch of other theologies (for want of a better word) and every idea is ok and somehow the idea is that over time a new innovative synthesis will just pop up and will incorporate the Apostolic truth plus some of these other ideas. So when you think of it THAT WAY, sure the faith is not in jeopardy. But of course souls are!
Dear veritasetgratia,
There is simply no place for the Prefect for the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith to place his duplicitous rendition of the Truth, One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic, into parlance. This places an affront to the command of our Blessed Lord and God to His Apostles: “Let your yea be yea and your no be no. Anything else is from the Evil One.” Anyone, as Mueller, who places an affront to the commands of our Lord and Savior, Jesus the Christ, is anathema, in the words of Saint Paul. Any understanding of relative truth as Truth is the work of Lucifer. His singular responsibility is to guard the faithful from the relative understanding of Truth. “Innovative synthesis”, in your words, places an affront to the principal law of metaphysics, the law of non-contradiction. Let us call a spade, a spade. Mueller, for whatever reason or reasons is betraying Christ, he is persecuting Christ as he persecutes His Mystical Body, His Bride, the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. May Almighty God have mercy on Gerhard Mueller as he is now following the wide road to eternal perdition. In caritas.
Good evening Jafin,
Know who Gerhard Cardinal Mueller is beneath the mask. Co-authoring a book about Liberation Theology with Gustavo Gutierrez and celebrating it, speaks volumes about Mueller, as we in some sense, are the company which we freely choose to keep. This man Mueller, is a wolf in the clothing of a sheep, now unveiled. See here– http://www.traditioninaction.org/RevolutionPhotos/A479-Muller-3.htm
and here: http://www.traditioninaction.org/RevolutionPhotos/A478-Muller-2.htm . Our Blessed Dominus Deus Sabbaoth and Savior Jesus the Christ warned us that, “You think I came to bring peace but I came to bring the sword”, because it is in division that the truth springs forth and is plainly seen. These times are exquisitely difficult. All the more reason why we simply must understand just whom we are dealing with. In caritas.
Incidentally, it speaks volumes about Pope Ratzinger, who Mueller claims to know well and to have the confidence of Ratzinger, who placed him in the quintessential position which he now occupies as “defender” of the doctrine of the One True Faith. In caritas.
Jafin I think it is worth a try. Once you get down to writing, it would be challenging to find the words. Some time back I had the same thought of writing him. Like yourself, I confess to not really having a reliable idea of the man. Hoping for some insight about him, I bought the book he co-wrote with Gustavo Gutierrez “On the side of the Poor”. Liberation Theology is being liberated as you would know. There’s been lots of letters sent including some to all the Cardinals from some Catholic heavyweights. Who knows if any letter has been answered! I figure everyone should do what they feel inspired to do. If we keep remembering that it is the Passion of Christ and we are in that crowd yelling out to free up Barabbas or to release Jesus, it gets simpler to make the decision to write.
Why bother to write him. He already made up his mind.
His mind can be changed. Maybe. Like I said, it’s worth a shot.
I understand, but I have more faith in a shot of whiskey! It wouldn’t be Catholic without it!:-)
Hehe, worth a shot of that too!
“There will be no correction of the Pope”
This is Card. Müller’s opinion, but probably not that of the 4 cardinals.
Rather it is Bergoglio’s opinion (or rather, order?) being communicated by Cd. +Muller.
No, this is the head of the Holy Office. Any other discussion past this is just for agitation. Rome has spoken.
Actually there can be no correction of the Holy See (i.e. the Pope):
Therefore, because of your special faith in the Church and special piety toward the same Chair of Peter, We exhort you to direct your constant efforts so that the faithful people of France may avoid the crafty deceptions and errors of these plotters and develop a more filial affection and obedience to this Apostolic See. Be vigilant in act and word, so that the faithful may grow in love for this Holy See, venerate it, and accept it with “complete obedience; they should execute whatever the See itself teaches, determines, and decrees.”
(Pope Pius IX, Encyclical Inter Multiplices, nn. 1,7)
So if PF is the pope then we are obliged to obey his teaching in AL.
That is “complete obedience” ladies and gentlemen not a “partial obedience”.
Many other quotes of this “complete obedience” from the 19th century Popes can easily be obtained.
That is exactly my point. Is he a validly, canonically elected pope? If the papal election is canonically conducted then:
a) the conclave should confirm that the papal candidate is a human man
b) the conclave must confirm that the papal candidate is Catholic – which means he is NOT
1) a heretic
2) a schismatic
3) an apostate
c) The papal electors are not unduly influenced, coerced, blackmailed or threatened by governments, institutions, Bankers or criminals.
A canonically validly elected pope deserves our respect and obedience. An invalidly elected pope does not.
A Priest here said if the election had been invalid, it would have come out by now and we’d all know it. So deciding whether to listen to PF or not needs to be worked out using other criteria. What about : does PF hold to the Apostolic Faith as has been understood through the centuries of the Church? but when you consider the interpretation of the Church regarding the Gospel, unfortunately that message has suffered some damage over recent decades so……you need to take that question just up till the time things went off the rails. As the correct interpretation of V2 has not been agreed – and as some say rupture and others say continuity, let’s prudently suspend a lot of what we have heard as interpretation from that point! Many may disagree with me and say that is too harsh. But if you want clarity, sometimes you gotta do things you dont wanna do. Follow it back to the source – fresher water at the source.
??? I’m not a psychologist by training, but rather my degree is in Industrial Engineering. The election of Pope Francis has not been examined by responsible independent Catholic adults. The opinion of some priest with an interest in keeping Francis as pope does not count. The freemasons who run the Vatican don’t want a light shone on the conclave process which is surrounded with secrecy, before during and after the conclaves. This does not instill confidence in the results of the conclaves in the 20th century. As Catholics we have a right AND a responsibility to follow a validly, canonically elected CATHOLIC pope.
Only the Cardinals who were there know, but Card. Daneels wrote in his book “The election of Bergoglio was prepared in Sankt-Gallen” but that does not mean the process of election was invalid. Pope JP2 said no lobbying was meant to happen in Papal elections, but the whole process requires Cardinals who meet irregularly to discuss and form opinions and probably rely on the opinions of others whom they trust. So there is no potential for independent Catholic adults to evaluate the election.
Ok, so let’s say a female rabbi, who hates the Catholic church, decides to transgender to a man, becomes a priest, bribes 100 cardinals to vote for he/she in conclave. Don’t tell me it can’t happen because it already has. That is why the buying of an eccesiatical office is now illegal in the Catholic Church. If conclaves are held in secrecy forever then we the laity have no means for finding out if the pope is validly elected. I really don’t care if JP2 would be OK with Pope transgender rabbi. Only the facts should matter not some disconnected abstract examination of a pope.
To quote Pope Benedict in one of his interviews, it is obvious by the election of some unsavoury Popes in the past, that the Holy Spirit allows human beings (Cardinals) to elect the Pope of their choice; the Pope also added that the Holy Spirit gives the Church (the hierarchy) lots of rope to do what it will but He never lets go entirely of that rope. In other words, I dont think a Pope being validly elected is a guarantee of safety necessarily. The issue today is the instant global communication so that every word he says gets around. That used not to happen. As to a possible future transgender Pope, you are more optimstic than me. Long before that happens, Conclaves such as we have had for the past couple of hundred years, will have ceased, and the electors will be very few and know eachother very well.
The reason for a canonical election is to assure we human beings that we have a CATHOLIC man in the papacy. Yes, there were many popes with obvious moral failings, BUT, a thousand moral failings does not amount to a single heresy. One of Pope Pius IX’s errors in the Syllabus of Errors was with the belief that you lose the Catholic faith (that is, fall into heresy) if you commit a mortal sin. You are not a heretic if you commit a mortal sin, you are a sinner in need of repentance.
Part of the problem is in agreeing what is meant by “being Catholic”. I’m sure the laity are capable of deciding in a reasonably black and white fashion, but the “elites” ….well that is another matter!
Without putting boundaries on what it means to be Catholic, the Catholic Faith will not survive – at least not so that the Apostles could recognise it.
Veritas,
The authentic Magisterium of the Church is the “boundary” of the One True Faith, established by our Lord and Savior, Jesus the Christ. That General Magisterium is that which has always been taught, in the same understanding, free of error, over the centuries. That is what saves our eternal souls, keeping us free from error as Christ Jesus commanded. In truth, it can never matter whether two or more human persons “agree” on what is meant by ‘being Catholic’, in your words. All that matters is that those same persons conform themselves, through utter submission (and suppression of intellect when necessary) into the Truth Who Is Jesus Christ. If there is only one true Catholic standing at the end of time, it will be the human person who fully submits himself, by conforming his intellect, into His Church. In caritas.
Regarding….whether two or more persons agree….Fr Chad Ripperger explains this well. He has a youtube presentation on what constitutes the Tradition of the Church insofar as belief, and in the earliest days they were looking for general consensus amongst the Church Fathers on some points. He has a thin book as well, same topic. We know the first council of Jerusalem was all about interpretation (Paul confronted Peter). As you say, submission is essential, but try using that word today with Catholics generally (as I did), and see the reaction!
Veritas,
Christ is the same yesterday, as today, and as He is tomorrow. Christ remains unchanged in season and out of season. When you say, “but try using that word today”, in truth that frame of reference has no meaning. Again, if there is one Catholic left at the end of time, he is in utter submission to his death. In caritas.
Well let’s hope it doesnt get down to one.
1 Kings 19:10
Elijah said to God, “I have been very zealous for the LORD, the God of hosts; for the
sons of Israel have forsaken Your covenant, torn down Your altars and
killed Your prophets with the sword. And I alone am left; and they seek
my life, to take it away.”
1 Kings 19:18
“Yet I will leave 7,000 in Israel, all the knees that have not bowed to Baal and every mouth that has not kissed him.” (another version says “I will save for myself 7000”).
So we can hope that God ensures there are 7000+ people worshipping Him in the Spirit from the earth. In fact, Christ deserves “whole hordes for His tribute” so 7000 is not really enough now that Jesus has come!
Good evening Mary,
Mortal sin places the human person outside of the Catholic Church, as it places an irreconcilable chasm between the eternal soul and the Blessed Trinity. Manifest heresy is a mortal sin. All mortal sin is not heresy. You are suggesting that if a person “looses the Catholic Faith” they are from an ipso-facto recognition, an heretic, which is a false conclusion. Mortal sin, as it places the human person outside of the Church is not syllogistic with manifest heresy which also places the human person outside the Church, as a particular mortal sin, however, all mortal sin is not heresy. In caritas.
Mortal sin places a person ouside the state of sanctiying grace. It does not place you outside the Catholic Church.
Heresy is a mortal sin. Not all sins are heresy. The popes of the 14th and 15th centuries had mistresses and children. They were not heretics in these sins. They knew and were aware of their failings. They needed confession, repentence and a firm purpose of amendment. They had no need to abjure a heresy because they were not guilty of heresy.
Mary,
Outside the Church, there is no sanctifying grace. If the human person is not in the state of sanctifying grace, he is outside the Church, as one cannot both be inside the Church in the state of grace and be inside the Church without sanctifying grace in the state of mortal sin, as being cannot both be and not be at the same time and under the same respect. Extra ecclesia nulla salus. One cannot both be inside the Church and therefore in a state of sanctifying grace and inside the Church in the state of mortal sin, as the soul which dies in the state of mortal sin, dies outside the Church and therefore goes to hell for all eternity. One cannot die outside the Church and enter then into Eternal Life and then also, one cannot die inside the Church and enter into perdition for all eternity. In caritas.
So, let me get this correct. Anyone who commits a mortal sin is outside the church, that is, a heretic? Pius IX anathamatized that view in his Syllabus of Errors. Believe me, I don’t abjure heresy every time I go to confession. It is true that the Church is the vessel of sanctiying grace for mankind. Without the church we wouldn’t have access to sanctiying grace. But it is still possible to be in a state of mortal sin and still have faith, still be a member of the Catholic Church. If you die in a state of mortal sin, whether you are clergy or peasant or an engineer, you’ll go to hell, and, yes, as a member of the Catholic Church.
Mary,
Your comment, “But it is still possible to be in a state of mortal sin and still have faith, still be a member of the Catholic Church”, gave me clarity in argument. It is not correct for me to say that mortal sin places one physically outside the Church in light of faith, as you point out. Rather, mortal sin places the soul outside the Life of the Church, outside the order of Sanctifying Grace. The faith remaining in the soul of the human person in the state of mortal sin maybe a true faith but it is not a “living faith”, as the soul in the state of mortal sin is dead in that state of mortal separation from God. Thank you. In caritas.
Dear Daniel,
We simply cannot obey teaching which contradicts the Holy Gospel. Saint Paul warned us of that when he stated (and I paraphrase): Let no one teach you anything which is contrary to this Holy Gospel, whether it be one of us or even an angel. Let him be anathema. It is clearly not the person of the pontiff and his ideological contriving which we are obligated to, unless he remains faithful to the One True Church and in that understanding there is nothing ideological about his speech. If he teaches one iota of anything contrary to the Church, as Saint Paul taught, let him be anathema. In caritas.
If there’s one thing that all this confusion has taught me, it’s the power of Grace, that enables us to embrace the truth of the Faith and love it through a totally unearned Grace, and it just convinces me how suicidal lots of people are who fight the whole Faith grumbling about its demands – so ungrateful. But of course in recent decades you’d have to say so few probably have even heard the message of the Catholic faith explained so those poor people are slowly making their way towards it, bit by bit and being “guided” by all the sound bites coming out of Rome these days! what a tragedy!
Yes veritasetgratia,
The intellective lights are provided by the Holy Ghost in accordance with the command of Jesus the Christ, in the Gospel of John, chapter 14, for instance. Christ Jesus commanded there that soon He would be leaving the Apostles as He would be returning to the Father Who Loves Him and that they will be joyful for Him if they love Him. But Christ commanded, the Father will not leave you alone, He will send you the Blessed Paraclete, the Holy Ghost, Who will remind you of all that I taught you and teach you more. The world will not know Him nor see Him but you will. The “world” rejects Grace, that gift which as you allude to is both freely given and completely undeserved. Christ also commanded in John 14 that he who knows My commands and follows them loves Me and as I am in the Father, you are in Me and I in you. We must pray, fast, and sacrifice to receive the Grace of perseverance, which in this time, will be understood as the infinite treasure that It Is. In caritas.
Either the popes of the 19th and early 20th century were mistaken that “complete obedience” must be given to the Holy See or “complete obedience” must be given only after each member of the church has decided that the Chair of Peter has taught without error which makes me and you little mini-popes. We can then parse everything that a pope says and decide if we will or will not obey. Welcome to Catholic protestantism.
In this case it is all or nothing. Either the 19th century popes erred (which blows the Catholic Church sky high) or they did not and we therefore HAVE to give total and completer obedience to the Holy See. No Catholic protestants.
No wiggle room. If Francis is THE Pope, OBEY and give mental assent to AL and its interpretation. If he is NOT the Pope then NO acceptance of AL need be given.
Dear Daniel,
It is Saint Paul’s teaching. It was edified in Paul’s correction of Peter. One cannot embrace error as truth, regardless of the one originating the error. Popes can go to hell and laity can follow them there. If one pope contradicts the teaching of the others before him, the laity are bound to follow the true teaching which has been carried on over the centuries without error–the authentic teaching Magisterium. We are not speaking of individual laity deciding for themselves, rather standing with the perennial teaching of Holy Mother Church and not the novelty of any given pope or popes, for that matter. In caritas.
Peter’s error was an error of discretion not an error in teaching of the faith. Peter had no intention of teaching falsehood. Francis’s error is an error that directly attacks the Gospel and promotes concubinage into the very heart of the church. Sins of the flesh gather more souls for hell than any other sins.
Look to Saint Thomas Moore and Saint John the Baptist in this trial not to modern day apostates.
Francis can be the Pope and be the Pope in material heresy. If he declares himself to be a manifest heretic, then the Church will “produce” a pope. No sedevacante end around. That separates the eternal soul from the See of Peter, placing it outside of the protection of the Barque, outside of the teaching Magisterium, a place where there is no salvation. In caritas.
Daniel,
“We simply cannot obey teaching which contradicts the Holy Gospel” if/when a correction is ever issued. Then, in that case, we would have clear teaching which affirms that AL was not correct and contrary to the Holy Gospel. Until that happens, we cannot make this assertion on our own. This is the error, otherwise, of Protestantism and particularly its adherents. They thrive on “I don’t agree” and “this contradicts scripture” and there is chaos everywhere (not to mention churches springing up every where.) To me this was the point of the article (though most of the stuff on 1P5 seems to have a slant) and moreover this was the point of Mark’s post. It is the Pope’s teaching, Cardinal Gerhard Müller, the Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, has said it will not be over turned, so we should listen to it. I know this irks many traditionalist, but what is more dangerous, to listen and obey or to go into schism? Jesus also told his disciples to listen to those who are in the seat of Moses, but not do what they did. However, Jesus recognized the seat of Moses. Jesus also recognized the seat of the high priest when he was questioned by him just before his crucifixion. This is what I understood Mark to be saying, Pope Francis sits in the chair of Peter. For me this is enough to obey what Jesus said.
Hello Vinny Zee,
We live in the perilous time Vinny. Please carefully consider the following: What we are commanded to by our Blessed Dominus Deus Sabbaoth and Savior, Jesus the Christ, is full, utter, and complete submission of our will into His Will, the Will of the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church and Her Holy See as the head with the Vicar of Christ in the Barque of Saint Peter. To be found from within the deepest recesses of the interiority of that very understanding is Her Apostolic teaching. Therefore, when we oppose the pope, whomever he may be, the wellspring for that same opposition must indeed come from that same Holy See which the errant pope is the Vicar of. We draw from then, not our own musings or understandings of truth, rather we draw from the very well of the Holy See Herself, as She has taught infallibly, since time immemorial when Christ walked this earth. If we have a deceiver as the Vicar of Christ, then he will deceive. As “being cannot both be and not be at the same time and under the same respect”, precious anything a pope proclaims is either truth or lie, as he is deceived or deceiving in the lie. You see, there can never ever be a time when any miss truth, half-truth, or lie is ever, ever accepted as truth from ANYONE, even the pope, as Truth has a name and His name is Jesus the Christ, Son of the Living God and He is the King of His cosmos, every last iota of it, infinitely understood. I pray this helps. In caritas.
Mark,
I appreciate your comments. You however have a lot of switching back between inerrant church and errant pope. If we have one, holy, catholic and apostolic church, then I believe it means we have one, holy, catholic and apostolic pope. If he is apostolic, I think we should be more careful about calling him errant. When does he become inerrant? When we decide? It is a very easy trap to fall into. I left the church and was gone for almost 20 years. Most of that time was spent looking at the “fallacies” and “errancy” of the pope. Then I discovered my Eastern Orthodox brothers and sisters I love so much. However, my concern there was it was apostolic without that “errant, pesky pope to foul up the faith.” In fact the EO call the pope the first protestant. Among all the divisions in Protestantism they have one thing in common, it is rebellion and mostly vitriol in one form or fashion for the pope and the church.
“When we oppose the pope, whomever he may be, the wellspring for that same opposition must indeed come from that same Holy See which the errant pope is the Vicar of.” To me you have said, you, Mark, will never err in knowing, following and faithfully adhering to the deposit of faith, but the pope cannot or will not. Sorry, this is the hallmark of Protestantism that I heard for 20 years, “we know the truth” those people over there do not. I hear your argument. However, I am unconvinced. I am further unconvinced the seat of Peter has been vacant since 1958 (or which ever year the Sedevacantist) proclaim it. They talk of it being vacant. No one has explained to me how it will again be vacated. It is a slippery slope from which I don’t think they can come up again. Blessings be upon you brother.
Dear Vinny Zee,
God have mercy on me. Please read the words of a faithful son of Holy Mother Church, in the person of Bishop Athanasius Schneider found here; http://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/articles/item/2993-bishop-athanasius-schneider-and-two-archbishops-make-urgent-appeal-to-prayer
I implore your prayerful discernment of what he is saying, considering what you have already read from this miserable creature that I certainly am and can only ever be, this side of the vale. I would never suggest an ideological position of “sola scriptura” nor suggest that the sedevacantists, in their heresy, have it correct. Pope Francis, in accordance with his surrogate deceiver, Gerhard Cardinal Mueller, has placed an affront to the Divine integrity of the 6th Commandment, as this indeed stands res ipsa loquitur, with no room for misinterpretation, as Francis suggests in A.L. that there can ever be exceptions given to a negative Law of God Himself, as found in the 6th Commandment. I pray this helps. In caritas.
Gerhard Ludwig Müller on Amoris Laetitia
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