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Austrian Bishop on Amoris Laetitia: “We Have To Fight This Conflict”

Image: Salzburg, Austria

Today, on 7 February 2017, the Austrian Auxiliary Bishop Andreas Laun of Salzburg has published on the Catholic website Kath.net a commentary on the current situation in the Church with regard to the papal document Amoris Laetitia and its cumulative effects. Bishop Laun speaks about a German priest who now works in Southern America, and who just wrote to him the following earnest words:

Dear Andreas, while the questions concerning the remarried divorcees remain unanswered and vague – as the Holy Father does it currently – then there can soon come to pass the following absurd situation: a penitent [in the confessional] presents his situation – saying that he wishes to continue to live as husband and wife with his female partner – and he then demands absolution, with [a supporting] reference to the various bishops’ conferences and finally also to the pope himself; and then I [as a priest] say: “My conscience tells me that I cannot give you absolution even though the pope still keeps the question open; therefore, I cannot give absolution to you.” But, then, the other, with reference to the pope, insists upon receiving absolution as well as admittance to Holy Communion. Do I then have to change the formula of absolution and say: “The pope absolves you from your sins in the name of the Father and so on …?” For me, this is absolutely absurd! But is this not what it leads to? [my emphasis]

To this passage Laun then comments, with these words: “I fear that in this question is contained a logic which one cannot escape.” He continues, as follows:

There is no such thing as a double truth, and to some questions there is only one true answer – even when bishops and entire bishops’ conferences are giving contradictory answers. Some [answers] are true, others are certainly false. The four well-known cardinals who have presented their questions [dubia] to the pope might be well satisfied with the illustration of the problem as now presented here by this [German] priest from Southern America.

With some more encouraging words, Bishop Laun explains to his readers that, as Catholics, we cannot avoid this fundamental conflict: “I fear that there is no way of avoiding it; this conflict has somehow to be fought and carried out – and this [is to be done] without a false compromise! One cannot sit it out.” [my emphasis] Laun adds, nor may one avoid this conflict by a mere “reference to obedience toward the pope,” since it is “about a self-evident Catholic matter,” namely: “The pope is infallible, but this charism is not to be understood and respected without also considering the carefully described limits [to that charism].” [my emphasis]

The Austrian bishop then further describes some cases where a pope can, indeed, fall into error or be “a publicly recognizable sinner.” He continues, by saying: “The pope has the duty of being a father, and one may put questions to a good father, also critical ones!”

Laun adds that, in the past, popes have certainly committed some grave errors. For example, “one pope had even thought to have found, in a volcano, the entrance to hell.” The Austrian prelate explains: “No Catholic is bound – in the face of such a mishap – to give up his reason. One may chuckle, one may contradict, yes, one may even resist if the judgment of one’s [well-formed] conscience clearly says something different.” Sometimes, says Laun, it is of course better to be silent in the face of a pope’s mistake. This, however, is – according to Laun – not the case with our current conflict. One may not “put to rest” this disputed question. “It is about the Church, it is about people and their personal relationship with God, and it is, by the way, also about image of the Catholic Church to those who are ‘outside.’” Laun concludes with the following words:

There is a duty-bound obedience toward the pope and the authority of the Church; sometimes there exists in this Church the right – and sometimes the duty – to speak freely! It is undisputed that it can be difficult to unite both aspects under one hat. Faith and reason have to collaborate! This, too, is truly Catholic!

Bishop Laun is to be commended for his Catholic witness here and for his insistence upon a clarification amidst the confusions stemming from Pope Francis and his Apostolic Exhortation, Amoris Laetitia. Even in a 23 December 2016 interview with OnePeterFive, Laun had already himself publicly expressed his deep sympathy and agreement with the Four Cardinals and their expressed dubia with regard to Amoris Laetitia.

It is important, moreover, that Bishop Laun should now raise the problems of conscience which faithful and orthodox Catholic priests are now facing in the Church, especially with regard to the Seal of the Confessional. For, if a priest refuses absolution to an impenitent adulterer, he might soon be accused by that penitent of not going along with the new rules in the Church. A grave problem then arises for a priest, who may not at all even defend himself, inasmuch as he is strictly bound to be silent in accord with the Seal of Confession – as Saint John Nepomucene – a martyr to the Sacrament of Penance – was to exemplify. This actual and potentially increasing conflict might then also indirectly, yet subversively, turn out to be not only an attack on the Seal of Confession, but also an undercutting of the sacred trust in the priesthood itself.

129 thoughts on “Austrian Bishop on Amoris Laetitia: “We Have To Fight This Conflict””

    • Oh ya, Laun. If he is “gut gelaunt” he may do good decisions, if he is “schlecht gelaunt” better go away from his ways…

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  1. “One cannot sit it out.” Amen to that! The most common thing I hear anout Amoris, in conservative Catholic circles, is that the Footnote and all which surrounds it contradicts the undisputed will if Our Lord, but that all we humble laypersons either can or should do about it is to wait for another Pope. Did Thomas More wait for another King?

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    • Or … Did St. John the Baptist waited for Jesus Christ, who is God himself, to come and rebuke Herod for his adultery? He did not! But he did what he knew that he must do.
      So we all need to do what we have to do. There cannot be silence on the sins.
      Especially no silence when a man, whoever he may be, is doing a gravest sin against the God’s Law and the Christ’s Holy Catholic Church.

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  2. At this stage it must be said that PF’s continued insistence in not answering the Dubia is doing untold damage to souls & bringing the CC (once the pinnacle of Light) into great disrepute. One cannot give blind obedience to a nincompoop, especially one that has fallen into the hands of the Dark One.

    I beg Cardinal Burke & his supporters to act now – don’t leave it a moment longer. You can see the damage it has already caused. The entire Hierarchy has been implicated by electing him to the Papal Office but those who through cowardice or misguided loyalty continue to drag their feet when they should be active in removing him from an Office he despises & isn’t fit to hold, is adding fuel to the fire that awaits them in the next life. No-one can count the souls that have been, or are going to be, lost by this Pontificate. Evil personified has entered the Vatican (a once holy place) & the remedy lies only in the hands of the members of the Hierarchy to bring this calamity to a swift end. Traditional Catholics are fully trusting & supportive of those Cardinals, Bishops & priests who withhold their acceptance of the dastardly interpretations that flow from AL & await being told as soon as possible what measures are going to be taken against this Papal Exhortation signed, but not written. by the pope.

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    • I agree with you – with every day that goes by without clear and definitive action as regards the Dubia, the disastrous pontificate that is ‘Francis’ is becoming further entrenched.

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    • I’m with you. Although there are all sorts of formal actions that need to be taken properly and accordingly, something needs to be done NOW to stave off the destruction of souls… it’s monstrous.

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    • Wish we could sign your post into a petition, and somehow get it to Cardinal Burke!

      The Church is no longer ONE! That is a fact, and regardless how anyone chooses to interpret AL, as being magisterial or not, one simply cannot escape the fact that our Church is no longer ONE.
      It is no longer universal. Souls who are blessed to be in a diocese with a good and holy bishop…good for them…. But what about the tens of millions who are not? What ABOUT THEM and what about their priests?

      The papacy is under direct attack. What did Peter die for?? So that the Church may LIVE!

      I am sick and tired of reading about this bishop and that bishop from here and there and everywhere on their opinions, statements regarding Communion for divorced and remarried. There is no opinion!
      This is Christ’s Church! Soooooo…..let’s go with God.

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      • Blessed to live in a diocese with a good bishop…until the bishop reads in the media that he has, unknown to himself, resigned his episcopate, and has been replaced by a bishop more acceptable to Bergoglio. As just happened in the Phillipines.

        The bishops are getting older, and will be replaced. They may be replaced anyway. We are running out of time.

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        • Last week, when attending a meeting with a now retired but still reasonably fresh & alert bishop, we got a good reply to these queries. He told us that the task of the bishop is to sit on the fence! So between Yes and No.

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          • Foolishness and weakness on their part. They try to justify being cowards.
            Not acceptable!! Not acceptable to our Lord.

            I am truly beginning to understand that there will be no cross taken for our Lord by these prelates. Will the Lord hold back for a faithful few? I really do not know,who does?

      • I think all we can do is voice our opinion as lay people. I don’t think a petition will have any force behind it at all. The Church ois not a democracy so the ONLY chance we have is for certain Cardinals to start the process of formal correction.

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          • There’s truth in that. I don’t think they, on the whole, have shown a lot backbone on this. I definitely think the laity has to put pressure on them. But it has to come from them to Rome.

      • You are so right. Let’s go with God. Let us follow the words of Our Lord Jesus Christ!
        We must pray the Rosary and revive the Holy Face Devotion so the confusion in the Church ceases and souls are saved.
        O Most Holy Theotokos, Save us!
        +JMJ+

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    • If we believe that Burke is a prayerful and holy man then we need to believe that with the guidance of the Holy Spirit he knows the time to issue the formal correction

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      • I think that we need to pray very mightily for the Heroes of the Dubia, for though they are holy prelates, they are also human, and cannot help but feel the immense weight of what they must do. I do not mean they will shy off. Rather that, like Our Lord, Who knew in his Divinity what He must do on Calvary, but cried to His Father and sweat blood in His human fear of it, these men will be tried.

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      • Mustn’t forget that they have been stained by their adherence to VII, though not as badly as the rest of them. The CC needs to make a clean start by taking hold of the reins again, consecrating Russia, revealing the absolute Third Secret & rescinding VII. It will be done but when & how many souls handed over to Satan in the meantime? Can they live with this?

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        • You are hopelessly stuck in the 1600s and I call that idolatry.

          You seem to know better than God how he should guide Cardinal Burke.

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          • Change for change sake is never advisable & is dangerous for any organisation, particularly the RCC where the changes that were made have proved to be demonically catastrophic. If you cannot see this you must be wearing blinkers. Forced change (overhauling) triggers confusion, resistance & is counter-productive. If you follow the Fatima story (as well as Akita, Quito, etc.) you must also acknowledge that the times we live in were predicted by Our Lady many generations ago but our apathetic clergy didn’t respond. As a result of the internet & 24 hour news, the laity is at last getting the message – Fulton Sheen said it would be up to us to save the CC, but apparently that doesn’t include yourself, a child of VII. The best I can say is that you haven’t a notion of what has been taken away in the past sixty years & all because Marxist/Masonic/Modernism decided that the CC must be annihilated in order to obtain their goals, which will never be inclusive of the ordinary (wo)man.

          • We are not talking about change for change’s sake.

            The whole point of this discussion is precisely looking at the possible merits and de-merits of the changes that have taken place.

            Apparitions have nothing to do with that.

          • Of course Our Lady’s apparitions have an enormous input into what is occurring in our times. What type of Catholic are you to reject them? For anyone who was properly catechised prior to VII (Catechism, Apologetics, Catholic Doctrine/Ethics, History etc.) the events following that ‘pastoral’ council can only be described as diabolical. They have torn down the structure of the CC which was in place for centuries & respected by even those outside the True Faith. The splendour of the Old Rite was never achieved by other Christian churches. Saying it was all to do with getting closer to the world’s congregations was a lie as the vernacular was alongside the Latin in the old Missal. Maybe they should have taught people how to read & write in those countries that were denied education. Latin was a regular subject in schools as it was necessary for university entrance. Following VII religious education (of any sort) was prohibited from being taught in schools but the CC did nothing to ensure it was taught by reputable catechists in their own churches. This was in accord with the false ecumenism adopted by VII that all religions were to be respected – we are all the same ideology was a great dishonour to Our Lord who established His Church for the purpose of the salvation of those who would follow Him.

            Not only did they ditch the Liturgy but also the Sacraments were overhauled & this practice is still in progress, e.g. AL. Confession used to be available at regular times at week-ends & for First Fridays when the priest would also visit the housebound, hearing their Confession & bringing them Holy Communion. Now priests don’t want to hear Confessions & when they do oblige it is in the open with people coming & going all around you, not private as it used to be. Marriage has been demoted by the Church & demonised by some of its priests (& PF) who say that cohabiting couples can be in the grace of God. They haven’t, as yet, said if this extends to same sex couples, but that is possibly being kept for another day.

            Last Rites, Baptism & Confirmation are almost extinct in my part of the world, as cohabiting couples don’t usually ask for their children to be baptised. With the usual two marriages per year for large parishes you can see why this Sacrament & Confirmation are not considered necessary, especially when our pope has decided that Atheists can get to Heaven by their good deeds & Hell doesn’t anyway. Priests don’t want to be called out at night to administer the Last Rites either as they now seem old fashioned & unnecessary.
            The new innovation that Bishops’ Conferences can decide what is a sin & what isn’t in their own Dioceses is incredible. Every Bishop now if a replica Pope, something which the schismatic Orthodox always maintained. The disbelief in the Holy Eucharist being the Body & Blood of Christ but only a community meal makes a farce of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

            Jesus Christ made the rules & said “If you love Me keep My Commandments”. There is no discussion to be had on them. Pastoral Council & Synods called to make changes to what He has already declared are futile. Changes can only be made to Church rules which do not impinge on Catholic Doctrine.

          • Yes, our Lady’s apparitions have something to say about our time. But the difference between considering them and being hung on them is a mile wide.

          • Latin is not the panacea for the Great Apostasy: only the Blessed return of Jesus Christ will be adequate for this evil delusion that is increasing, in accordance with the Apostles & Prophets.

        • Bergoglio’s heresies and evil acts are not the fault of Vatican II: As the Bible says, he is responsible for his own sin and even the perfidious betrayal of all the Magisterium of John Paul II and Benedict XVI.

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    • very well put. This is EXACTLY what has to be done. It’s just as irritating as H E double hockey sticks, that people are still talking about how some don’t “understand” PF or he is being misquoted….or an all time favorite, that AL has to be interpreted by traditional Church teaching. That’s really pulling a rabbit out of a hat IMHO. Sorry for the rant, but, this confusion and dragging of feet and ignoring the naked Emperor is literally driving me insane!

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  3. “The Pope absolves you from your sins, in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit”……LOL!! Now there’s a way around it!

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    • If it even looks like females will be seriously considered for the “priesthood” or as deaconesses……good by to a few good men aimed for seminary.

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      • If he ever tries to float that one, he will run into an avalanche of resistance from priests and bishops. His friends will desert him like rats from a sinking ship.

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    • Certain people need to read (and re-read) Sacerdotalis Ordinatio, the infallible encyclical of PJPII (actually written by then-Cardinal Ratzinger) which declared that women cannot be priests (Thank You, Lord!).

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      • The “priest” that wrote the article quoted in Brian’s second link proceeds to basically say “But Ordinatio Sacerdotalis didn’t actually settle the issue because feelings and development and I’m a heretic!” … more or less anyways.

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    • Exactly what I was thinking, Brian. Cardinal Burke must be seriously conflicted about some element of the correction that has stymied him. If not that, then he may be fashioning an unassailable case against the Pope designed to remove him. It drags on because he gives the Cardinal new evidence every day. Time to put a lid on it and drop the hammer.

      The female priest question, which was definitively settled, i.e., dead and buried, many years ago, cannot be resurrected. The reasoning by the jesuitical priest now striving, probably at his instructions, to provide Bergoglio with a loophole to wriggle out of his doctrinal pronouncement, had to call up the name of a French priest who was censured and banned from writing and teaching under Pope Pius XII because of his heresies. The reasoning is corrupted with the slippery touch of Satan, whose smoke still permeates the Vatican. There is no shame to this pontificate or to the accomplices who are eager to accompany Bergoglio to wherever God will send him. The blind leading the blind.

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  4. Bishop Laun puts the case with remarkable clarity.
    I wonder whether we ought to be regarding those who have followed the Buenos Aires Bishops, e.g. the German and Maltese Bishops, as being formally in schism?

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    • I said in another comment something that touches on the same subject. Maybe not a crusade on the Vatican but a retreat from the Vatican. Are some in the Church hierarchy accepting that it’s been occupied by a foreign power? So retreat, first gather strength.

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    • I think it would be a great idea if all the faithful readers of 1P5 could organize a day of prayer regarding this whole issue. Have the Franciscans of the Immaculate host a Mass celebrated by Cardinal Burke, Bishop Schneider and Fr. RP in La Crosse at the Shrine of Our Lady of Guadalupe. Have it duplicated all over the world by other faithful clerics. Perhaps EWTN would cover it and bring the issue to the lesser informed members of our congregations. I don’t know, I just know it is time for more than petition signing and individual prayers.

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          • I also think that this is the path. As I stated above, I’m up for doing anything and will do what I can to help. My own ministry keeps me quite busy but this is much too important not to be involoved. Let’s find a way to have our voices heard through a show of solidarity to the faith and to the Blessed Trinity from whom all good things come!

      • Excellent idea, if one could actually locate Cardinal Burke, his Cardinal supporters & Bishop Schneider & let them say High Mass with all the ceremonial regalia. If this could be relayed to the city of Rome where PF has no judicial power to stop it, all the better.

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        • That would be beautiful.

          I thought I read in another article that Steve is friends with Bishop Schneider, perhaps Steve could get the ball rolling, though I think anyone should be able to contact either of them. Maybe It would be a good way for more people to see the value of this site as well. Ana, you could certainly write them. Your passion is obvious and that would certainly go a long way I should think. If you wrote something requesting this I’ll be the first to sign on. Let’s band together, for whereever two or more are gathered in His name….

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          • Actually, I would love to see this accomplished at Easter in Fatima. I have already written to Cardinal Burke last August also Cardinal Sarah in January (both requiring signatures of receipt). No responses & no emails given either which makes it more difficult to correspond. Maybe those who administer the Shrine of Our Lady in Fatima could help out in organising such an event – it would then be up to Catholics to show their zeal by turning up and visibly assisting in the due process of restoration.

          • I can certainly contact the Franciscans, and I participate in a group known as Teams of Our Lady who might be willing to help as it is also a world wide organization. I’ll see what I can accomplish. If you would be willing to write to someone as well, I’m absolutely on board and I agree, let it be up to people to show up.

          • I have drafted a letter to their Eminences requesting no further delay in pursuance of calling an Imperfect Council & outlining the continuing despicable conduct of the Vatican since they issued the Dubia & their disinterest in cases such as Fr. Tom Uzhunnalil & Asia Bibi & the priest suspended in Florida for informing the police of an active paedophile priest that the CC authorities didn’t want known.

            However, it will have no affect unless the signatures of Tradition Catholic bodies, e.g. Knights of Columbus, Opus Dei, American Catholic Lawyers Assoc., Priests for Life, etc. are attached. That’s why I feel sending petitions signed only by individual Catholics means nothing to them – they can, and do, ignore them.

      • WE must storm heaven and beg our Lord with prayer and fasting.
        Pope Francis is in great need of our prayers as well. I continue to pray for his heart to be open to the Truth and to put away this stubbornness and pride. He has been seduced, allowed it, and yet, let us remember he gave up more for Christ, as a priest, as a bishop, than I did as a mere lay woman, and deserves our prayers.

        Petitions can inspire prelates to know that the faithful are with them. And individual prayer, of course is vital in knowing our Lord’s will and desires for us. But this is not about us, or even about the prelates or even the pope; is it really? It is about our glorious Church, His Church and I agree, our Lord needs and deserves to see HIs people, united in love for Her, for PF, for souls!!

        Thank you ChaplainMikeS!

        The Faith of a Canaanite Woman

        MATTHEW 15

        21 Then Jesus left Galilee and went north to the region of Tyre and Sidon. 22 A Gentile 1 woman who lived there came to him, pleading, “Have mercy on me, O Lord, Son of David! For my daughter is possessed by a demon that torments her severely.” 23 But Jesus gave her no reply, not even a word. Then his disciples urged him to send her away. “Tell her to go away,” they said. “She is bothering us with all her begging.”

        24 Then Jesus said to the woman, “I was sent only to help God’s lost sheep – the people of Israel.”

        25 But she came and worshiped him, pleading again, “Lord, help me!”

        26 Jesus responded, “It isn’t right to take food from the children and throw it to the dogs.”

        27 She replied, “That’s true, Lord, but even dogs are allowed to eat the scraps that fall beneath their masters’ table.”

        28 “Dear woman,” Jesus said to her, “your faith is great. Your request is granted.” And her daughter was instantly healed.

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  5. The basic issue is the dogma of the “Infallibility of Pope”. Unless this is not taken away, we will never be able to be free from possibly grave errors.

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    • Could you clarify? There was some double or triple negative in there that was hard to follow. Are you saying that the dogma of papal infallibility is a problem?

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      • Yes, that is it. This Dogma from the 2nd half of the XIX century came as a result of overreaction of the Church who has tried to protect her kingdom (mistakenly considering it in purely materialistic and power-terms) against Modernism.

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        • I’m not a theologian or Papal historian so correct me if I’m wrong but as I understand it a Pope has only ever invoked an infallible teaching once since the practice came into existence, by Pope Pius XII in 1950 declaring the Assumption of Mary as an article of faith. It doesn’t state the Pope cannot commit personal sins or speak/teach error.

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          • Dear E.J. I cannot correct you because I do not know and after I will know I will forget where to go…hahaha…but anyway, even if t is a popular misconception (regarding the field of applicability, what it covers and what not), still at the very bottom is a real or assumed claim of incapable of being wrong. Only an arrogant or a dull fool can make claims as such. And regarding Assumption of Mary I can make even less of a comment.

          • Whatever the Pope says always carries weight, it has always been the case, before and after the infallible dogma came into existence, whether he mutters stuff on a plane mid-flight, writes a letter, or issues an encyclical. But he is charged with proclaiming and protecting the teachings of Christ. PF in my eyes AT BEST leaves the door WIDE OPEN to countless erroneous interpretations.

          • PF, as any other Pope, is as you rightly said: “…charged with proclaiming and protecting the teachings of Christ.” That is all we can say and we could expect. If he doesn’t do it, he will need to face the consequences. We do not need to worry about somebody’s else. We have a Bible and enough sources to seek the rightful guidance from. God bless.

  6. I sometimes wonder whether the question has been asked by some princes and Bishops of the Church if it may be time to accept that Rome has been overrun, and now is the time to retreat and start building again elsewhere, you know.. the underground Church and all that. It has crossed my mind.

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    • We first have to be told that PF & supporters are in error & not to follow them. Then we can start to rebuild, maybe in Fatima as was suggested would happen (can’t remember where I read that) but they must first be declared as heretics. That’s what needs to happen but the delay in issuing that directive is much too long in present circumstances. The faithful need to be told now, together with what directives are going to be implemented to keep the True Faith intact. This hasn’t come on suddenly so I cannot accept that there has been no agreement among faithful Cardinals & Bishops as to what approach must be initiated.

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      • Well, was just floating the notion whether any Cardinals or Bishops were seriously thinking about such an outcome, wasn’t asking what I or we should do. But seeing as you mention it I agree. Also, the whole SSPX-Vatican thing is also worrying. Why, with PF’s record on traditional Catholics would the SSPX want to join in with PF? Some say it is good so as to be more effective in the fight, but wouldn’t it be better not to allow PF to get a foot in? Questions questions. Hope in Christ and God bless Cardinal Burke.

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  7. ” …..The secular clergy will fall far short of what is expected of them because they will not pursue their sacred duty. Losing divine compass, they will stray from the priestly ministry mapped out for them by God ……….. Pray constantly, implore tirelessly, and weep bitter tears in the seclusion of your heart, beseeching the Eucharistic Heart of my most holy Son to take pity on His ministers and to end as soon as possible these unhappy times by sending to His Church the Prelate who shall restore the spirit of her priests.” (Our Lady of Good Success to Sr. Mariana de Jesus Torres).

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    • I was hoping he had arrived in the person of Cardinal Burke, but maybe he is a John & Baptist figure preparing the way for the Restorer?

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      • Cardinal Burke has been very silent lately. Next time we hear from him it’s probably going to be something important (or it should be!).

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  8. The SSPX and The FSSP permits bankers to receive Holy Communion (Usury is a mortal sin)

    The SSPX and FSSP permits contracepters to receive Holy Communion (Contraception is a mortal sin)

    The SSPX and The FSSP permits sodomites to receive Holy Communion (Sodomy is a mortal sin)

    The SSPX and FSSP permits Landscape Contractors to receive Holy Communion (Depriving a laborer of his wages is a mortal sin)

    The SSPX and FSSP permits Murderers (and the pro life movement leaders who say that women are not culpable for abortion murders) to receive Holy Communion (Murder is a mortal sin)

    and so why is everyone so up-in-arms about the poor adulterers being succored by the Pope and Bishops?

    Those permitted to receive Holy Communion in the putative traditional orders are those who are practicing members of the various cohorts described as sinners whose sins cry to Heaven for vengeance

    No Dubia or petition is going to correct what is wildly wrong throughout ALL of the Church – including the putative trad orders.

    The only thing a lay man can do is to be properly disposed to receive and cooperate with Grace so as to actualise the two reasons Jesus established His Church

    Salvation
    Sanctification

    and try not to worry too much (cabernet and a good sense of humor helps) about things he can not control and one can not control what our Pope and many Bishops are doing.

    O, sure, IANS has a good relationship with his Bishop but his excellency does not respond to all of his letters and phone calls (well, can’t blame him)

    Many want the Bishops to do this or that or the other thing but the plain and simple facts is not what your Bishop will do but what will you do.

    There has never been and there will never be a just reason to UnPope or to leave the Church. Jesus is, has always been, and will until the end of time be, Head of His Church and one has to remain with Him and trust Him and imitate Him and, in this epic epoch, we are in the Garden and we must not let the cup pass us by.

    Call on The Lord then wait on The Lord for St. Vincent of Lerins taught us such situations are the way God tests us individually to see if we love Him.

    Reply
    • The issue of usury is a sticky one for sure and under an economic system {-s} that exist, more than I care to attempt to unravel.

      But as for the other issues, the FSSP {and I suspect SSPX also} doesn’t “permit” people in the various states you describe to receive communion. People might DO it, but if any of the priests I know were to face such a person in the confessional {which is where they would come to know} and hear of the person’s intent to continue to pursue such a state of living, they would be counseled about the need to amend their ways. No, I do not believe my priests would commune a person they knew was refusing to change their life. I don’t think it is fair to say they would.

      I agree about staying put in the Church.

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      • http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Ben14/b14vixpe.htm

        This is still Catholic Doctrine and, thus bankers are mortal sinners and your objection can be (and has been) used vis a vis abortion with its legality etc.

        You don’t think landscape contractors in Florida receive Holy Communion?

        Pro Life activists receive Holy Communion even though “Pro-Lifers” are really pro abortion

        Look, I agree about adulterers not being permitted to receive Holy Communion but letting them do so just repeats what the Church has already done in other moral areas

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        • You’ve sparked my interest in studying up on usury.

          You lost me on landscape contractors tho, and also on prolifers who are proabortion.

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          • Florida landscape contractors hire illegals and pay they little, thus, depriving as laborer of his wages.

            Because the putative pro-life movement always label as a victim the pregnant woman who contracts with another to kill her baby means that the pro life movement is actually prochoice/pro abortion.

            You could also say the pro life movement hates women because in calling the perps victims, they do not consider women as adult moral agents

        • I have to thank you for bringing up the issue of usury.

          No way I’m about to tackle that here, but it is indeed a fascinating topic. The more I dealve into it, the less concerned I am about a supposed “Change in Church teaching” {or practice} than I was before.

          No question there are usurious relationships that are still under the ban {which should be addressed by priests in the confessional} but equating all transactions today that involve what appears to be apparent usury, is wrong.

          Very interesting topic.

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  9. this is why the antichrist in the Holy Scriptures is called “the man of sin” and “the lawless one.” it is lawless to attack as a heretic would the Seven Holy Sacraments themselves; this a true pope cannot do: the Seven Sacraments were instituted by Christ and the Apostles before the Chair of Peter commenced, and no pope can overturn them – to try and do so as antipope bergoglio is doing is a “lawless deed” of a “lawless man,” a heretic and a false pope we must stand up to as the canons of St John Paul II said about his false and “null and void” election.

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  10. Is the ‘end game’ to back off to a ‘Plan B’; having the Church accommodate “annulments via conscience” ..and be happy to as a relief from this impending storm …. as some form of brilliant negotiating tactic ? Troubling, to be sure, but not such a blatant total disregard for Holy Scripture and Church Doctrine

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