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Insane Times: Matricide and Martin Luther

Image: “The Dragon Transmitting Power” Master of Sarum, c. 1250.

Sometimes, it’s hard to find words. This is one such occasion.

What can be said to explain the Vatican’s decision to issue a stamp with a reverential image of one of the most notorious heretics in history, to “mark the 500th anniversary of the Protestant Reformation”?

Note the piety. Note the “golden and timeless view.” This is a devotional work.

The Vatican goes on to insist in a Pontifical Council statement that “we are very thankful for the spiritual and theological gifts received through the Reformation.”

Really? Who is “we”?

Is “we” the Catholic martyrs of the Wars of Religion? Is “we” the Catholic faithful still pained by the rending of Christ’s Mystical Body yet continuing from Luther’s revolt? Is “we” the countless souls led into damnable errors on faith, grace, justification, and the Sacraments propagated by heresiarch Martin Luther, a man who called pope and bishops “a brothel-keeper and the devil’s daughter in hell,” penning such niceties as Against the Roman Papacy, An Institution of the Devil?

Is Holy Mother Church here made to give thanks for this matricide and “the gifts received through” his errors?

Yes, and not only must she be thankful; she is made, together with the Lutheran World Federation, to have “begged forgiveness for our failures and for the ways in which Christians have wounded the Body of the Lord and offended each other.” One could scarcely believe it, were it not for the prophetic words of Pope Pius XII in 1933:

I am concerned about the messages of the Virgin to the little Lucia of Fatima. This persistence of the Good Lady in face of the danger that threatens the Church is a divine warning against the suicide that the alteration of the Faith, in its liturgy, its theology, and its soul, would represent. I hear around me innovators who wish to dismantle the Sacred Chapel, destroy the universal flame of the Church, reject her ornaments, and make her remorseful for her historical past.

And find the Vatican speaking of Pope Francis standing with “Bishop Munib A. Younan” (except he’s not a bishop) and declaring “the commitment to continue the ecumenical journey together towards the unity that Christ prayed for” (except that unity abides in the Church alone). And perhaps most troubling:

Many members of our communities yearn to receive the Eucharist at one table, as the concrete expression of full unity. We experience the pain of those who share their whole lives, but cannot share God’s redeeming presence at the Eucharistic table. We acknowledge our joint pastoral responsibility to respond to the spiritual thirst and hunger of our people to be one in Christ. We long for this wound in the Body of Christ to be healed. This is the goal of our ecumenical endeavors, which we wish to advance, also by renewing our commitment to theological dialogue.”

Now, we know as a matter of faith that the only way for such a “concrete expression of full unity” to be realized is by the return of any separated member to Catholic faith and life. But with plans for an “Ecumenical Mass” apparently in the works, one is tempted to dread what further violence the future may hold.

And what of all the missed opportunities to evangelize? If anybody lives in a diocese where a bishop is taking the opportunity of this “500th anniversary” to do anything but the kind of things detailed above, I’d love to hear about it. It’s likely we can only imagine such a scenario these days.

But let’s do that for a moment.

Just imagine for a second what would happen if your bishop stood up at that ecumenical conference or dialogue session or joint prayer service or whatever, and rather than reflecting on what might have been or affirming all that unites us, he instead invited our erring brethren, in a charitable, heartfelt manner (you know, the kind of manner he might have if he truly loved them and was concerned for their salvation), to return to the one true Church established by Christ.

I mean, seriously, what would happen?


Given the above nonsense and other increasingly strange and even irrational goings-on amid the hierarchy of late, I wonder if a particular preternatural enemy may be afflicting the Church at present. I am reminded of something from the writings of the Church Fathers about the spirit of insanity. 

This passage is from St. Hippolytus of Rome, preaching in the early 3rd century to invite non-Catholics of his day to abjure their errors and enter the Church:

[F]ly to the water, for this alone can extinguish the fire. He who will not come to the water still carries around with him the spirit of insanity for the sake of which he will not come to the living water for his own salvation. (Homilies 11:26)

Perhaps this is the name of a particularly nefarious agent currently at work, of a piece with that “smoke of Satan” Pope Paul VI lamented in 1972 as having penetrated the Church. It calls to mind a passage from C.S. Lewis’s Perelandra, when the protagonist faces the principal agent of Satan, and finds:

On the surface, great designs and an antagonism to Heaven which involved the fate of worlds: but deep within, when every veil had been pierced … nothing but a black puerility, an aimless empty spitefulness content to sate itself with the tiniest cruelties, as love does not disdain the smallest kindness[.]

Perhaps the inconceivably complex machinations of an angelic super-intelligence bent on the destruction of the Church finally reduce to a base, mindless gibbering.

Perhaps Christ the Logos, Divine Reason par excellence, is opposed by an Anti-Logos that must needs be Un-Reason itself.

Perhaps the Man of Sin is an idiot.

Originally published at Whispers of Restoration. Reprinted with permission.

165 thoughts on “Insane Times: Matricide and Martin Luther”

  1. Aside from the Marian apparitions, other prophecies, etc. one of the things that so strongly convicts me that we are living in apocalyptic times is that so many good and faithful popes over the last 100 years have referenced or strongly alluded to their feelings that we are in those times or, at least, very evil times. I don’t think this kind of talk FROM popes has been common throughout history. This article references Pius XII, JPII at Fulda, Leo XIII’s 100 year vision, Pius IX and X both discussed it and raged against modernism….it’s compelling.

  2. “What chilled and almost cowed him was the union of malice with something nearly childish. For temptation, for blasphemy, for a whole battery of horrors, he was in some sort prepared: but hardly for this petty, indefatigable nagging as of a nasty little boy at a preparatory school. Indeed no imagined horror could have surpassed the sense which grew within him as the slow hours passed, that this creature was, by all human standards, inside out – its heart on the surface and its shallowness at the heart.” -C.S. Lewis, Perelandra

    These are the lines the precede those quoted in the article. The portrayal of the devil is the most chilling I’ve ever read, and an excellent picture of the chaos and insanity in the Church. Great reference.

    • Another excellent bit from Perelandra:

      “[Ransom] did not dare to let the enemy out of his sight for a moment, and every day its society became more unendurable. He had full opportunity to learn the falsity of the maxim that the Prince of Darkness is a gentleman. Again and again he felt that a suave and subtle Mephistopheles with red cloak and rapier and a feather in his cap, or even a sombre tragic Satan out of Paradise Lost, would have been a welcome release from the thing he was actually doomed to watch. It was not like dealing with a wicked politician at all: it was much more like being set to guard an imbecile or a monkey or a very nasty child. What had staggered and disgusted him when it first began saying, “Ransom … Ransom … ” continued to disgust him every day and every hour. It showed plenty of subtlety and intelligence when talking to the Lady; but Ransom soon perceived that it regarded intelligence simply and solely as a weapon, which it had no more wish to employ in its off-duty hours than a soldier has to do bayonet practice when he is on leave. Thought was for it a device necessary to certain ends, but thought in itself did not interest it. It assumed reason as externally and inorganically as it had assumed Weston’s body. The moment the Lady was out of sight it seemed to relapse. A great deal of his time was spent in protecting the animals from it. Whenever it got out of sight, or even a few yards ahead, it would make a grab at any beast or bird within its reach and pull out some fur or feathers. Ransom tried whenever possible to get between it and its victim.”

  3. Um, I was Protestant and converted to Catholicism, and I can tell you that I don’t know a single Protestant today who wants to come to the communion table in the Catholic Church. Most of them are too busy telling me that my faith is a cult of a dead woman and that I’m going to hell. I’m not going to disparage protestants here but why the heck does the Vatican need to put out a stamp commemorating the reformation?

    • Like all Western liberals, Jorge Bergoglio has a notion in his head about what Protestants think and want, and he DOES NOT want facts to get in his way.

    • Same with divorced and “remarried” and people with “SSA”: what percent of these people are Catholics in terms of the definition of “once Catholic, always Catholic”? 10%? What percent of that 10% are practicing? .01%? Of that .01%, what percent are actually following Christ’s words and doctrine? 10%? Of that 10% of .01% of 10%, what percent want the Church to change? Probably 1% while the other 99% are faithful and obedient. So in terms of numbers, all of this “stuff” is about probably about 100 people who actually care and want the Church to change strictly for (erroneous) Christian (not societal acceptance) reasons.

      In other words, who do these people like Jim Martin and Francis think cares about this stuff? If they cared about the Church and their souls they wouldn’t be living mortally sinful lives to begin with!

    • Bingo.
      Protestant communities have no interest at all in unity with Roman Catholicism. They hold us in contempt at best, but tragically far more frequently we are termed a joke. They have no interest in us beyond the deconstruction of Roman Catholicism and the concurrent justification of their own historical aberrance – theological and moral. Many Catholics engaged in this endeavor appear to share that goal, others are simply naïve or uninformed. Having spent ten years working in a trans-denominational seminary of international repute, I assure you, this is the “oikoumene” reality.
      Mainline protestantism has devolved into some sort of “ethical” cultural society with no regard for the Creed. Roman Catholic theologians burdened with an academic inferiority complex acquired in the late nineteenth century, metastasized through the first half of the twentieth, have vested themselves in speculative academic inquiry rooted in skepticism, abandoning authentic theological reflection rooted in religious fidelity sustained by prayer. To the extent Roman Catholicism has collapsed into this quagmire, we have advanced
      toward unity in disbelief. To the extent we have resisted this grievous gravitational force we are farther afield from each other than we were before “the” council.
      It is abundantly clear that ecclesiastics and theologians presently holding the reigns have entirely abandoned Roman Catholicism and have yet to let any of us groundlings in on the secret. Pastoral care with benefit of the “wink and the nod” is fraudulent and the work of the Adversary. Accountability, something woefully absent in the post-conciliar Church, starts at the top.
      Someone recently termed those engaged in this bridge to nowhere as “ecumaniacs.” Immersed in an effort with little traction and spiritual suicide as its consequence how else
      could they be termed? More than twenty-years of scandal in our Church should have at least opened our eyes to our congenital fault – denial – and “ecumania” is just another symptom of our ecclesial neurosis. The supreme irony of the past fifty-seven years is that with ecumenical engagement Roman Catholics find themselves catastrophically fractured within – at least those baptized that still have some kind of cognitive engagement with the faith.
      This entire ecumenical enterprise is well over the border into absurdity.
      All of that said, I admire you for jumping on to the Barque of Peter. Its a bumpy ride but its the only one on the high seas.
      God reward you.

      • Thank you. Yours was an interesting post. My experience post conversion with evangelicals has been a train wreck. . They are absolutely vicious towards Catholics. But worse are my experiences with novus ordo Catholics who are almost as nasty sometimes. I thought we were all catholic but I see that some of them don’t think so. . They treat me like a knuckle dragger or some kind of fossil that was discovered in the church yard. . The church I embraced is in the midst of a meltdown or at least a civil war of sorts. I’m confident I chose the right side. I just hope holy mother church will survive the war.

          • Of course Holy Mother Church will survive, Jesus Himself said she would, “…and the gates of the underworld can never hold out against it.” [Matthew 16:19]. But the True Church may have to survive underground for awhile. It may appear that it disappears and this false “whore” (please pardon the expression, but there is no more apt description than this) of a worldly church will seemingly have taken its place. Jesus never said it was going to be easy. But as the martyrs seeded the early Church with their blood, so we may have to be the martyrs that seed the glorious re-emergence of the One, True, Holy, and Apostolic Catholic Church founded by Christ Himself. So, fasten your seat belts, indeed.

        • GK Chesterton, I believe (someone will correct me if I’m wrong, I hope!) once commented that the Church has gone to the dogs at least four times, and each time, it was the dogs that died.

          It may be one man in a cave, but yes, the Church will survive. We know how the story ends…but as ever, the only way out is through.

          • I believe that and I wonder If God is allowing the church to go through this mess as a chastisement. I’m confident he doesn’t want the holy mother church destroyed, as happy as the protestants would be for that to happen.

          • Yes he does but things are SO bad in the church right now that I wonder what it will be like coming out the other end.

          • You’ll see Christ coming in the clouds, just as it was foretold. We just happen to be living in those times. Rejoice!

          • Well, while it seems that we are in the end times, Christians have thought they were in the end times since the first century. I am trying to focus on Christ and take one day at a time.

        • Hang in there brother. The Church is undergoing it’s passion just like Our Lord and needs you to stand by at the foot of the cross. We have a Judas at the top right now who has (unknowingly or not) sold out to the world powers (these are the Roman soldiers) and happy to allow the alter be desecrated. Christ has given you the pearl of great price (the Catholic Faith) at precisely the time he wishes you to save your soul. God bless you.

    • This is precisely why “ecumenism’ is a complete fraud.

      Our leadership foists this ecumenism off on unsuspecting Catholics who think we are somehow drawing Protestants to the faith thru it.


      Protestants {as Protestants} do NOT want to be Catholic.

      End of story.

      We need to proclaim the truth and not apologize one bit for it.

      • I personally know three Protestant couples where both parties are involved in their sect. One of these couples is virulently anti-Catholic and in the past accused me of Mary-worship, the usual slander.
        The second couple consists of an ex-Catholic lady and her husband, both of whom are divorced and remarried. The wife is of course full of resentment for the True Faith. The husband does not grasp what is wrong with Protestantism but does not care enough to investigate.
        The third couple is open to the True Faith, having the view that there are positive elements in every branch of Christianity. This couple I am investing all my energy in converting. Ecumenical bullsh*t is the last thing these dear people need.

        • I know what you mean. When I converted I lost every Protestant friend I had. They can never get past Mary. They insist we worship her and my former best friend went so far as to say that the RCC is the cult of a dead woman. And she accused me of “turning my back on sola scripture.” The journey has been an eye opening experience.

          • I’m always confused by people who tell ME who I worship and who I don’t. Why can’t we be believed when we say we honour her but don’t worship her? It’s like me saying you have red hair and I don’t trust redheads. You tell me you don’t have red hair. I say “yes you do” and I’m not going to change my mind….what is it?

            Demonic disorientation.

          • That’s a good term, “demonic disorientation.” I like that. The problem with protestants in general is that the most important goal for them is to either destroy the Catholic church or steal her sheep from her., which will lead to her eventual destruction. That comes before witnessing to muslims, atheists, Buddhists, etc. And that is a pathetic shame. It is an old score from 500 years ago that has yet to be settled.

        • Will keep your efforts in my prayers…my grandfather converted a very good college friend of his, who ended up being one of the last good Jesuits, and was exiled to Africa in the late 50’s for his efforts. It might be worth asking Father Morrison to give you a hand in converting them, if you are so inclined.

      • I guess the wisdom at the time of Vatican 2 in the 60s was that if they watered down the Catholic Church and make the sanctuaries ugly, have ugly boring music and take away latin the protestants would come. That was NEVER going to happen.

    • It is a move towards the establishment of a global church in which all religions are equal, none rises above the other or is “truer”. Pope Francis and his minions, including in my so far current church, are working hard to achieve this. The protestants I know would never, ever, participate in a Catholic communion, though they may sit through, silently, a Mass for a wedding they have been invited to. It is the catholic hierarchy that are selling off the religion that Jesus himself found.

      • Protestants will sit uncomfortably in a Catholic Church for weddings and funerals.. lol. I get you about the globalist church issue too. I loved my old trad church. I lost my job and moved back to my old state a while ago and I’m in novus ordo hades now. I didn’t realize just how bad things were until I was away from my old parish. I’m not sure what I’m going to do yet but my plan is to try to get back there somehow if I can. There was a time when you could walk into any Catholic Church anywhere on the planet and you knew what to expect. Those days are over.

  4. Such apostasy by the Vatican on Lutherans and a stamp-Seriously!!! calls into question the legitimacy of the Pope and his homosexual and Lutheran like appointed clique like Martin ab in Ireland, Martin of Amer. Mgz. USA. ..Plus Vatican Homosexual and Lutheran ideology promoting clerics like Fagoli, Sparando , Paglia and Roisica etc..

      • He might be referring to a gentleman of Italian origin presently walking the halls of the Villanova University “theology” department named Massimo Faggioli.
        Besides the inaccurate English allusion fagilio in Italian means beans.
        Massimo might mean a whole lotta beans!
        Could this be a prophetic insight into the content of “his theology?” Might be.
        Of course, it could indicate other sympathies as well.
        In any event, despite their nutritional content bean consumption should be minimized, never maximized, for the welfare of company.

      • That is Really his name. One of Bergoglio Francis main confidant in the Vatican is Cino priest Fagoli… I cannot Make this stuff up..Even.worse is Canada arch Bishop claiming.. Incredibly that his being at Luther prot. Mass was NOT really.homoring Martin Luther……. cannot make this stuff Up. In case you were wondering why we have a stamp honoring Luther.. I guess next we will have stamps for.Oliver Cromwell and Calvin.coming

        • Wow! I have always said that God has a wonderful sense of humor and this tends to prove it. Speaking of Cromwell, my Irish grandmother (from Monaghan) used to babysit my younger brother and me occasionally. She had a stern warning about misbehavior on our part: “If ye aren’t behavin’, Cromwell will come and eat you!” I had no idea who Cromwell was, but I learned to dislike him at a very young age. Little did I know back then that cannibalism was the least offensive of Oliver’s evil arts!

  5. Regardless of the consciousness or unconsciousness of the “leadership” of the Church
    the dark truth of our present turmoil is……

    Satan IS front and center of the Vatican AND IS pulling the string’s now. And Divine Intervention
    will NOT be isolated in that regard from world-wide chastisement for the (extremely sick with sin)
    state of this planet.

    • We are living in insane times. A Capuchin priest gets sacked by U.S. bishops just for writing a respectful letter to the pope? And now Cdl. Cupich wants a ‘REVOLUTION”:
      Cardinal Cupich said in his address that Catholics “must have a change of heart if dialogue is to be successful and common ground is to be found.” They must come to an understanding that Jesus Christ is “always doing something new” in the Church, he said.
      He outlined how in his own Archdiocese he is “rebuilding” and “reimagining” the Church through a process of “discernment” and “dialogue.”
      He called the process a “revolution.”

      • Cardinal Cupich said that while the majority of priests are supportive of his “Renew my Church” program, local lay leaders are far less supportive.
        “We’re asking them to walk where they have not walked before,” he said.
        “We must continue to develop the spiritual and other resources needed for them to be leaders in a Synodal Church that is reimagining itself.” DOES THAT MAKE SENSE?
        “The Church is not fully Church if it lacks dialogue,” Cdl. Cupich said.
        Cupich didn’t allow much dialogue for the Capuchin that he fired.

          • NEWSCATHOLIC CHURCH Thu Nov 2, 2017 – 3:40 pm EST

            Catholics must let go of ‘cherished beliefs’ to ‘discern’ like Pope Francis.

            Cardinal Blase Cupich…

            CHICAGO, November 2, 2017 (LifeSiteNews) — Francis-appointed U.S. Cardinal Blase Cupich said that if Catholics want to engage in “discernment” like Pope Francis does, they must let go of “cherished beliefs.”

          • Exactly which beliefs are the ones that we need to let go of? God’s Church has served me well over my life time and I fear that if it changes, it won’t be the one that was established by Our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

          • And precisely which “cherished beliefs” would those be, my sycophantic mitered friend? The Real Presence? That adultery is serious sin? That sodomy is a sickening perversion and a tremendous offense against God’s plan? I know it’s popular in the Bergoglian universe to obfuscate, but here in the States, we like men who call “el pan, pan, and el vino, vino,” if you get my drift.

          • It’s not difficult to imagine what past Popes might think of this. From Blessed Pius IX who stated that “Liberal Catholics are the worst enemies of the Church.” to St. Pius X who stated that modernists should not be treated with soap and caresses, but beaten with fists, it’s clear this stuff needs to be dug out at the roots ASAP.

        • Here’s the dialogue: “Christ loves you and will forgive you if you repent and amend your life. Are you prepared to do that?”

          Possibility One: No.
          Response: Well as I said, Christ loves you and will be open to you when you’re ready. I will pray for you. Here’s my number, call me anytime.

          Possibility Two: Can you tell me more?
          Response: Yes, please, let’s have a cup of coffee and talk.

          Possibility Three: Yes.
          Response: Awesome! Confessions are at X time on Y days. I will pray for you. Here’s my number, call me anytime.

        • In other words, carry on with the auto-demolition of the Church, and clear out those who love the Faith. Hopefully, the Bergoglian era is the last hurrah of V2, The Robber Council (robber of Mass, Office and Faith).

      • Achbishop Diarmuid Martin and most Irish Bishop’s need to grow a pair!
        These people are NOT Catholic leader’s.

        They lack conviction, courage, loyalty, and respect.

        All the suffering and pain the Faithful Laity endure throughout ALL the scandals and confusion.
        These creatures are weathervanes and little more….!

        • Abp Diarmuid Martin has offered the Mass of Ages publicly a few times, more than Benedict did as bishop and finally Pope (that figure is zero). And as Abp, before Summorum Pontificum, the true Mass had a stable location, St Audeon’s church for Sunday High Mass, St Kevin’s church for daily Low Mass. There are far, far worse among Irish bishops. A degree of political cunning is something he possesses, assuring appointments from Pope Francis.

          Whenever Francis says something contrary to the Magisterium (usually) or blasphemes (often, like describing Jesus as becoming a man filthy with sin in a Casa Martha Lenten homily), he should be ignored. Prayers should be offered for his conversion.

          • I am the last person fit to throw stones as I would warrant boulders
            in return but disciplined silence is trumped by disciplined criticism at
            this stage. Thank you.

      • What is it with the name Martin? We have weasels by that name in Ireland and the States, Diarmuid and Jimmy. Is the Irish Martin originally a Jesuit too? That would help explain his leftism disguised as religion.

  6. Isn’t it obvious why the Vatican issued a stamp? Luther is everything Francis admires; tradition-hating, potty-mouthed and heretical.

    The only people Francis loathes are faithful Catholics who cling to the Church’s tradition.

  7. When I began to attend mass and take my children with me, I was told by my then pastor (protestant of course) that I had shipwrecked my faith. Good grief, what did I give up? Beating drums and guitars every Sunday. I’ll take the Latin Mass, thanks very much.

      • Nice. Real class. My sisters church and some of the charismatic churches around have segmented times for praise, worship, giving a “word of knowledge”sermon and prophesy. It reminds me of when I had to go with my Methodist church choir to the county mental institution as a little girl and sing to the unfortunates there. It’s not nice but the behavior of the mentally dosabled was no different than the charismatics and Pentecostals today.

    • The music in evangelical churches is awful. It is Like being in a rock concert. So many folks out there can’t listen to music unless it has a “beat.” (All music has a beat actually) and the “we love you we praise” you stuff that is sung in the NO churches in my area is excruciating.

  8. Luther was “inspired” about his 95 theses due to his chronic constipation and the long times he spent in the toilets of Wittemberg’s cathedral. The Holy Spirit blows everywhere.
    In Luther’s case, another “spirit” actually was blowing and it came from the toilet’s bottom.

  9. The stamp is matricidal in another way too. The Gospels record that Our Lady and St John stood at the foot of the Cross.
    Here we have a blasphemous stamp depicting the heresiarch Luther in the place of the Holy Virgin Mother of God and the devil Melanchthon in place of St John.
    The devil Luther taking the place of the Holy Virgin on a Vatican stamp. This is nothing short of blasphemy.

  10. Once upon a time there was an economic system called Christendom. Christendom meant people worked with nature to produce goods and services that they mostly bartered with one another. Lots of greedy people over the centuries thought of ways to exploit their fellow man and nature, but the Church said such practices were not fit for a Christian, and generally speaking secular rulers enforced the Church’s moral law.

    One day, the lower German nobles couldn’t stand the idea of not getting more than their fair share and wanted to get lots more land and to live by usury, the double exploitation of labour. So they sponsored a priapic German priest who projected his resentment of his violent father onto the pope. “See,” said the nobles, “the pope hits his Kinder. The pope can’t say what’s fair.”

    So they stole the Church’s land and made usury legal. The English nobles, worried at first, saw the Germans making out like bandits, then did the same. So 500 years later, we have labour begging for work at below-subsistence pay, whole counties in debt servitude to usurers and a population that has suffered under psychological repression ever since, because we are told to accept that 2+2=5.

    The ideology of land monopolists and usurers is not for me. What I like is Christendom.

        • I didn’t say it wasn’t. The Jews had used it for millennia. But the Catholic Church forbade usury and until the reformation, it was not legally practiced—until after the split occurred. And Calivin DID institute the concept of low interest loans after the r formation took place. That is a historical fact.

    • Yes, and “the money-changer’s” encouraged the whole destructive process with
      historical evidence of their influence and undermining of Christendom undeniable.

    • You’re spot on. Capitalism is state sponsored usury. Or organized naturalism, as Father Fahey said. Protestantism was merely an excuse to plunder Church property and wealth. The theology was an after thought.

  11. The hypocrisy in this place is astounding. The mere mention of Luther is enough to get you all foaming at the mouth and spitting invective left, right and centre. Luther was faced with a situation where the church was engaged in manifest and continuous error. A papacy that was riddled with worldliness, not Godliness.

    Sound familiar?

    What you lot spend every day doing (railing against the errors of the Pope) is essentially what Luther did. Your current course is towards another schism. You do realise that if it happens it will be your side that would be declared heretics? Excommunicated from ‘the one true church’.

    “As the church at Antioch has erred, so hath Rome.”

    There is far more to Catholicism than the Roman version.

    As for Luther, like so many of the continental reformers he allowed his new ‘freedom’ to be perverted. In his later years he was one of the most odious figures around. What he did was undeniably important.

    • OK.

      Fair point.

      Now prove it.

      What doctrines here are in agreement with Luther and defy the Scriptures and the Magesterium of the Church.

      Be careful, some of us are ex-Lutherans.

      Ready. Steady. Go.

      • It would be a false start due to the asininity of the proposal.

        The crux of the matter is that if you ascribe to the ROMAN version of Catholicism then you must submit to the will of the bishop of Rome. It is by definition the thing that separates you from every other branch of catholicism: be it eastern orthodox, Ukrainian, Anglo-catholic etc.

        Either the bishop of Rome is magisterially infallible and is deserving of your undivided loyalty (and all of the questioning this website and its commentors engage in is at best flagrant disloyalty and potentially outright seditious/scandalous/schismatic) or he is simply a man like any other archbishop who is human and fallible.

        All humanity is broken. Only Christ is sinless, not Christ plus whoever wears the tiara.

        What we are seeing now with Francis is unfortunately the issue with placing your faith in a man. Whilst sola scriptura has its issues, it is a closer point to the balanced centre of reason, revelation and tradition than that held to by Rome.

        Don’t get me wrong, I’m not suggesting that any other church has it right (as a Roman Catholic who converted to Anglicanism but remains catholic, do I ever know the problems we are all facing). Every denomination has been infested by the spawn of the adversary. Every denomination contains clergy who are entirely too worldly, entirely too scared of being unpopular to affirm the Christian faith as it has been understood for millennia and as revealed in scripture. My main point is that the heartache you are experiencing now, through Bergoglio’ s papacy, is primarily due to the bind that the papal tradition places you in.

        My other point is that yes, Luther became rather repellent, vile and reprehensible. It doesn’t mean that his actions weren’t important. It doesn’t even preclude anyone from holding a theory that they were divinely inspired. The man and the work are not the same thing. At the very least, his actions led to the long overdue counter-reformation.

        Perhaps we are now overdue another? I for one would get behind any unity of catholics willing to sweep away the tides of modernism across the worldwide church; whatever banner it was under.

        • We are not the pope’s slaves. Catholics have a duty to point out error that is contrary to the teachings of Jesus Christ and his apostles. There is a lot if that in the C.C. these days. It is only on matters of dogma, when the pope expounds on and promotes that dogma, supporting the dogma, that he can speak ex cathedra, or infallably. Everything else, especially when contrary to established doctrine, is one man’s opinion and must be confronted.

        • “Only Christ is sinless, not Christ plus whoever wears the tiara.”
          WRONG! The Mother of God is without SIN!

          A pure vessel to bring forward into this world The Word Made Flesh.
          This is very important!

          • It has literally zero basis in scripture. Mary was neither sinless nor a perpetual virgin. Jesus had real flesh and blood brothers and sisters as evidenced in the gospels, acts and the epistles of Paul.

            It comes from a theological mistake that requires Christ’s mother to be sinless to impart no stain upon Christ. It falls down at the next logical step which is why did that not need to be the case for Mary? Unless St. Anne (whose existence also has no scriptural basis) is sinless too, the whole thing is absurd.

            Not to mention that Mary being sinless lessens the importance of Christ’s saving work upon the cross. If it was possible for any man/woman to be sinless then Christ need not have died.

          • The proclaimed Roman Catholic dogma states, “that the most Blessed Virgin Mary, in the first instance of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege granted by Almighty God, in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, the Saviour of the human race, was preserved free from all stain of original sin.”

            Scripture AND Tradition. I could argue with you citing scripture and
            tradition all day long and at the end of the day it boil’s down to belief
            in the Truth of the matter or rejection of it.
            I am a Roman Catholic.

          • Wow.

            Almost a hundred words, and every singe one of them in error.

            Amazing the stuff they teach in bible colleges these days.

        • Either the bishop of Rome is magisterially infallible and is deserving of your undivided loyalty (and all of the questioning this website and its commentors engage in is at best flagrant disloyalty and potentially outright seditious/scandalous/schismatic) or he is simply a man like any other archbishop who is human and fallible.

          This is a cartoon version of the doctrine of infallibility.

          • I am Catholic. But loyal to what?

            If there’s a cadaver synod, am I supposed to praise it to the hilt? What about an orgy in the Lateran? What about a pope embracing a Christological heresy?

            All of these things have been done by popes before, Craig.

        • “Either the bishop of Rome is magisterially infallible and is deserving of your undivided loyalty (and all of the questioning this website and its commentors engage in is at best flagrant disloyalty and potentially outright seditious/scandalous/schismatic) or he is simply a man like any other archbishop who is human and fallible.”

          Craig, how can I put this charitably? Here goes: You’re full of **** (a word I can’t print here). You made a huge mistake when you apostatized and joined Henry VIII’s heretics, but at least here you expose the faulty reasoning that led you to such a disastrous, soul-threatening decision. Reconsider it before it’s too late.

          • Christ never made loyalty to the bishop of Rome a requirement for salvation. The new testament is rather clear on the whole thing.

          • Christ frowns on apostasy regardless of the trappings with which you choose to dress it up, how many smells you release into the air, or how many bells you may ring. Read Ronald Knox and John Henry Newman to discover just how catastrophic is your decision to become a heretic.

    • The mere mention of Luther is enough to get you all foaming at the mouth and spitting invective left, right and centre.

      And rightly so.

      Luther is one of the most destructive – and awful – human beings in history.

      • Just so. He and several other destructive German speakers, Zwingli, Marx, Engels, Hitler, Himmler, etc., have much more than language in common. How much better the world would be if none of them had ever been born.

    • If there is (or will be) a schism, it will be from the top down ie those who are destroying the Catholic Church will be the ones in schism – and it looks like they will be led by the Pope.

    • Careful, friends. Craig the Professional Troll is on the prowl again. Let me use a liberal phrase that’s usually worthless but it applies here: “Move along! Nothing to see here, folks. Keep moving, please.”

      • I am neither a troll nor professional. I have been reading this site since January (possibly earlier but can’t be sure) and unfortunately have seen it change from a site that had lots of interesting articles about the faith and the odd grumble about the upper echelons into a one trick pony that provokes its readers to act like the sky is falling in every time the Pope speaks.

        I’m sure its good for the balance sheet but it’s rather tedious to be honest.

        I refrained from commenting until now but this attack piece was pathetic enough to warrant a response. It’s lack of nuance is indicative of what discourse has become around here.

        • By your own admission, you’re an apostate and have thrown in with a gang of heretics. You can call what you do “catholic” till the proverbial cows come home, mate, but no one here is buying that kind of malarkey.

          • Christians are Christians. Catholic simply means universal. The Church is universal and has many expressions throughout the world. Rome is simply one flavour available in the ice cream shop.

            In the dark times we are facing at present with the re-emergence of the Islamic false religion we are going to need to put aside our differences at some point if we want to survive. At that point the bishop of Rome will be just another bishop.

    • Luther was a condemned heretic whose errors expand until this day. He was a deformer not a reformer. He invented relativism, making personal opinion count as truth.

  12. The Popes really are unbelievably useless. I too was Protestant, and it is horrifying to see the Church try to outdo herself in admiring and praising one of the greatest heretics, schismatics and antiCatholics who ever lived. This is horrendous. One thing is almost guaranteed – the post-V2 wreckers of Catholicism (sorry: post-V2 Popes) are going to replace the late 15th-century Popes as the worst Popes ever. Alexander VI, however glaring his vices, did at least never favour heresy or schism. Which is more than can be said of the atrocious Paul VI and his successors.

  13. It seems like we’re treading a very fine line…but ecumenical Mass with Protestants receiving the Holy Eucharist is definitely crossing the line.

    Surely that will not happen. Even the pope cannot change and allow inter-Communion…right?

    • I think you’re right, but I’m not betting the whole family farm on it. Five years ago, I wouldn’t have dreamed we’d soon have a pope who thought Communists were just dandy people (his own words) and who would publicly praise a mass murderess (Emma Bonino) saying she was one of Italy’s “greats.”

  14. I’m strongly opposed to the Vatican honoring Luther but the Catholics gave as good as they got during the Wars of Religion

  15. Every time the Faithful say “I can’t imagine this situation getting worse” the Dictatorship of Mercy and their minions seem to take it as a personal challenge.


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