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Global Abortion Advocate Lilianne Ploumen Claims Papal Award is “Confirmation” of Her Work

Images, From Left to Right: Pope Francis meeting with Liliane Ploumen in 2015 (Courtesy of Netherlands Government); Ploumen shows off her award on YouTube (Screengrab)

Michael Hichborn and Maike Hickson contributed to this report.

On January 12, OnePeterFive and The Lepanto Institute reported that Liliane Ploumen, a Dutch politician and international abortion activist, received the Order of St. Gregory award from the Vatican in 2017 — a pontifical award given for “meritorious service to the Church”. Multiple diplomatic sources around the Vatican have now confirmed to OnePeterFive that the award was given to Ploumen last year when she took part in an official state visit of King Willem-Alexander and Queen Máxima of the Netherlands to the Vatican in June of 2017.

Ploumen, who formerly served as the Minister of Foreign Trade and Development Cooperation for the Dutch government, started a progressive global initiative in 2017 called “She Decides.” Self-described as “a global movement”, SheDecides is designed to

support the fundamental rights of girls and women to decide freely and for themselves about their sexual lives, including whether, when, with whom and how many children they have. This includes having access to modern contraception, to sexual and relationship literacy and safe abortion.

The SheDecides initiative came in response to the funding gap for “family planning” facilities around the world created after US President Donald Trump re-instated the Mexico City Policy, which blocks American federal funding for NGOs providing abortion services. Within six months, SheDecides — which has the support of 60 countries — had received pledges totaling $300 million (USD).

There is little official information available online about the Order of St. Gregory award, but one website detailing its history indicates that it is “typically made on the recommendation of Diocesan Bishops or Archbishops or Nuncios for special merit or service.” It is perhaps for this reason that today, Cardinal Willem Eijk of Utrecht, has issued a statement indicating that he had no knowledge of or involvement in the bestowal of Ploumen’s award:

In response to many questions from both The Netherlands and abroad, Cardinal Eijk says that he was not involved in the application for the title Commander in the Pontifical Equestrian Order of St. Gregory the Great, which former minister L. Ploumen received last year. Cardinal Eijk was also unaware of the fact that this papal award was requested for her.

Sources say that a routine exchange of decorations was made between officials from the Vatican and from the Dutch delegation, and that the only reason Ploumen received the award was because she received it as part of that group.

Nevertheless, in a video posted to YouTube, Ploumen was seen discussing the award, which she held as she spoke with an interviewer, saying that she received it “despite” the fact that she is pro-abortion.

A longer interview on BRN Newsradio in the Netherlands reveals additional assertions from Ploumen, in which she implies that the Vatican gave her the award as a personal “prize”, rather than as a pro-forma honor bestowed upon her entire delegation. She tells the interviewer that this was done even though she believes the Vatican was aware of her work for SheDecides, and that she sees it as confirmation of her work. With the help of the Lepanto Institute, the most relevant portion of the interview has been transcribed and translated into English:

BNR – And there is another prize, from the pope …

Lilianne Ploumen – Yes, I won another prize.  I received a high award from the Pope.

BNR – For what you did for abortions?

Ploumen – Well, it doesn’t say that, but it is in itself interesting that it says it is for service/merits for society.

BNR – Well, that would be applicable to a lot of other people.

Ploumen – Yes, for sure, but the Vatican probably knows that I started “SheDecides” and they gave me this prize – very special.

BNR – What kind of prize is it, exactly?

Ploumen – Commander in the order of Gregorius.

BNR – Congrats.

Ploumen – Thank you.

BNR – It is rather progressive of the Pope.

Ploumen – Yes, very.  And I am very happy with it.

BNR – Do you see it as confirmation of what you are doing for girls and women, for abortion?

Ploumen – Yes, that, and also, the last couple of years I invested a lot of time in establishing contacts with the Vatican.

BNR – Lobbying?

Ploumen – Yes, Lobbying.  Especially since the Vatican, mainly with the previous popes, were very rigid when it comes to women’s rights.  And that is not going to change in the short term, but perhaps there are some areas in which we can work together, and that is what I tried.  For example, the Church is also against child marriages.  For us, it may seem strange, but in a lot of countries, the Church has a strong influence.  So, if a bishop can say that it is not a good idea to force a 14-year-old to marry, then that may help.  For example, there is a bishop in Uganda who spoke out against homosexuality.  Then the Vatican said, ‘Okay, we are not actively promoting homosexuality, but man is created as he is and we have to accept him in that way.’

BNR – And that is how pragmatic you are, too.  If the Vatican can help you with something that is not even really what they stand for, then …

Ploumen – Yes, of course.  Make no mistake.  They have a lot of influence, of course, via the religious community, but they are also part of negotiations within the United Nations.  And then it makes a difference if they are on the side of Saudi Arabia or on the side of the Netherlands … and then I’d rather have them on our side.

Pope Francis and Liliane Ploumen. (Image source: The Government of the Netherlands)

Sources close to the story insist that the award was not given to Ploumen in response to her work, but only as an exchange during a state visit. Given this, her answers to BNR appear to be an embellishment, at the very least.

Questions have also arisen as to why the Vatican did not perform a vetting process on recipients of the award, a question made more pressing by the fact that Ploumen was already something a known quantity in Rome, having met with Pope Francis in 2015 to discuss climate change.

Adding fuel to these questions, in a January 14 article at Crux, John Allen, Jr. wrote that Pope Francis is unlike his recent predecessors in that he is acutely aware of what is going on in his Vatican. Beginning with an anecdote of the pope making an unexpected personal response to a scheduling inquiry to the papal household from a bishop in one of his commissions, Allen wrote that the story illustrates that

Francis is remarkably well-informed about the nuts and bolts of actually running the Church. We’re talking about a pontiff who knew within hours that someone had called over asking about his schedule, and who acted immediately on that information.

After offering two additional examples of the pope’s personal involvement in the minutia of the Vatican, Allen writes:

What nobody disputes is the fact of the situation, which is that Francis just flat-out knows what’s going on. [emphasis added]

Under the watchful gaze of a pope with that level of awareness, it’s difficult to be dismissive of Ploumen’s award as a simple oversight, which lends some Vatican watchers to wonder if perhaps her bold claims about the award being confirmation of her work might have some truth to them. Similarly, the lack of a clarifying statement from the Vatican days after the award was made public casts suspicion on theories that it was a simple error.

OnePeterFive made a request for comment on Ploumen’s receipt of the award from both the Vatican and the Dutch government over the weekend, but had not received any statement by press time.

Catholics around the world have reacted to the story of Ploumen’s receipt of the award with shock and concern. A petition has already been started on one website, asking the pope to revoke the honor. With text in both English and French, the petition simply states, “We ask to his holiness the revocation of the papal honour of the Order of Saint Gregory the Great to Lilianne Ploumen”, with the reason given that she is a “militant” abortionist. Father Peter West, an outspoken and popular American priest who formerly served as Vice President for Missions at Human Life International has made a similar request on his Facebook page, which has nearly 12,000 followers.

“I call on Pope Francis,” Fr. Peter writes, “to rescind the title title of Commander in the Pontifical Equestrian Order of St. Gregory the Great given to Lilianne Ploumen due to her pro-abortion activism. The unborn are truly the least among us today. The Church must not honor those who believe they have a right to choose to kill them.” He went on to say that such an award would be equivalent to Our Lord bestowing an award on Herod.

Others have raised questions about why papal awards originally designated as means of recognizing special merit among the faithful are being given out as little more than tokens of hospitality during state visits at all.

Although Ploumen may be the most egregious example of the Order of St. Gregory being given to undeserving recipients, she is not alone. In 2008, Cardinal Christoph Schönborn awarded Renate Brauner, then-Deputy Mayor of Vienna, the Pontifical Order of St. Gregory the Great. Brauner, too, was a notorious supporter of abortion at the time of her award. The late British media personality Jimmy Savile — accused after his death of raping or sexually abusing as many as 300 people, including children as young as nine years old — received the Order of St. Gregory from Pope John Paul II in 1990 for his charitable work. A formal request was initiated by the Catholic Church in England in 2012 to have the honor posthumously revoked. The Vatican’s response at the time came from papal spokesman Father Frederico Lombardi, who said that the Holy See “firmly condemns the horrible crimes of sexual abuse of minors”, adding that the revelations about Savile were “very grave”. Nevertheless, Lombardi stated that  “As there does not exist any permanent official list of persons who have received papal honours in the past, it is not possible to strike anyone off a list that does not exist.”

In a Vatican plagued by scandals and associated ever-more closely with abortion and population control advocates like Emma Bonino, Jeffrey Sachs, and Paul Erlich, the revelation of Ploumen’s award adds insult to injury for Catholics already reeling from a seemingly endless torrent of disgraceful conduct by Vatican officials under the appearance of approval from the pope.

236 thoughts on “Global Abortion Advocate Lilianne Ploumen Claims Papal Award is “Confirmation” of Her Work”

  1. So, she merited the award for her special service to the Holy See and Society by being an official member of a State Visit from the Netherlands to the Vatican? It’s a Pontifical award, not a Vatican State Visit Award.

    She is a known entity to the Vatican and to the Pope and she has been there more than once and had a private audience with Pope Francis about Climate alarmism, and abortion and contraception go hand in hand with Climate Change mania.

    This is day 24 since the award was given…and several days after it became public and scandal has ensued, and the response from the Vatican is cricket…

    And how come Cardinal Eijk was not made aware of the fact that the 3rd Highest award in the Pontifical Equestrian order of Saint Gregory (which we are now supposed to believe is simply being given to someone for being a member of a State Delegation) was to be bestowed upon someone in his Archdiocese?

    • “It’s a Pontifical award, not a Vatican State Visit Award.”
      Still… I must say it. Is it then from a pontif who seems to represent Christ Himself, as vicar of Christ, the pontif who represent which Church actually? If we not just believe, or simple know, or are sure about that, or convinced,.. or all of that together, – that such evil act never can be done by the true vicar of Christ.
      And what to expect from Vatican on this one, after a hundreds and thousands other non-Catholic things done and acomplished since 2013? Not much. As not so far…


    • That’s par for the course in a world where ‘participation medals’ are now mandatory to protect our self-esteem.

      All are Welcome! Everyone is equal! Everyone is special! Everyone is saved!

    • “Abortion and contraception go hand in hand with Climate Change mania.”

      That is a very key point.

      Human beings exhale carbon dioxide, so if carbon dioxide is made to appear toxic, then human beings are, by extension, toxic, and the fewer of them the better. This is why many of the same people screaming hysterically about climate change advocate a world population of no more than 500 million. In other words, a die-off (or kill-off) of 93% of the world’s current population. The theme that is continually pushed, subtly or not so subtly, is: Humanity = Bad. It’s like Hitler’s painting of Jews as “vermin” extended to all of humanity. In a real sense, the global depopulation crowd is worse than Hitler.

      I always find it ironic that the Climate Change fanatics conveniently omit that all green plants require carbon dioxide for life — and of course, if plants all die, all animal life dies too. These are many of the same people who are “tree huggers” and “animal rights” advocates — and yet, they panic about carbon dioxide, on which all plant life, and thus, animal life, depends!!

      • It was reported that she received it on December 22nd. However, that might have been when they announced that she had received it. It appears it was announced on a radio program in the Netherlands on December 22nd. And supposedly she received it in the Mail!

  2. The abomination of desolation.

    “The black beast, like a panther, stands for Masonry, the beast with two horns like a lamb stands for the Masonry which has infiltrated into the heart of the Church, that is ecclesiastical masonry, which has spread among members of the Hierarchy. This masonic influence in the heart of the Church was already foretold to you by me in Fatima when I announced to you that Satan would be introduced right up to the highest point in the Church.”

    Our Lady to Fr. Stefano Gobbi,
    June 13, 1989.

    • Not only did the Blessed Mother forewarn us about the freemasonry among ‘members of the hierarchy’ in Fatima, but I believe in LaSalette as well. And Padre Pio prophesied that freemasonry would reach all the way up to ‘the Pope’s slippers’.

  3. “Yes, I am really afraid. We are on the brink. We only need an accident to trigger war…”
    More Jesuit fraudulent hysteria, feigned episcopal moral superiority.
    Distraction, deception, disorientation.
    What he is mandated to control – his own office – he does only to the degree it fulfills his ideological design. But he’s worried about nuclear war? He need be worried about his own salvation and the salvation of the faithful.
    That, not so much.
    We all need be “really afraid” of is the bomb sitting in the Domus Sanctae Marthae.

    • How convenient that the lovely land of libs, Hawaii, had just such an accident over the weekend. I feel personally threatened by this little speech and I’m not amused.

      • But do you think it woke any one of the beach blanket liberals up?
        Given the heat PF might be getting in Chile, I won’t be surprised if he grabs a board makes and makes a mercy surf to Honolulu.
        Or maybe he’ll just bring the perps back to Rome.

      • If you’re conspiracy-minded enough (I try hard not to be, but it’s getting harder and harder to avoid!), you’d almost think that there were Deep State people in the U.S. who are in touch with the Vatican…

        Oh, but that could never be, could it? That would be as crazy as imagining that the Vatican would secretly fund Hillary Clinton’s campaign in 2016!

      • But that’s what’s so weird. He does actually seem to take the devil seriously. From the very beginning of his pontificate, he has spoken quite pointedly about the reality of the devil and how we must resist him.

        • Frankie knew he had to throw a few bones to believers and talking about the Devil was an easy way to do that. However, he’s said and done too much since then for his talk about the Devil to mean anything. Recall especially that he seems to reject the belief that ANYONE goes to Hell. So…why should we fear the Devil? One small thing alone was enough to convince me that, at the very least, Pope Francis is not a believing Catholic: this past October, the Vatican issued an official stamp of a famous painting that depicts the Crucifixion. In it, the figures of The Blessed Mother and John the Baptist had been replaced by Martin Luther and Luther’s crony, Philip Melanchthanon (sp?), with the latter holding some Lutheran tract. How the bloody Hell does anyone justify the Pope’s doing that?

    • I know. And you’re tempted to ask him, “Ah, Your Holiness, ah….so we weren’t on the brink back when your friend Barack was funneling billions of Euros to Iran? When your other friend, BJ Clinton, was making things rosy for Kim Jong-un, the lunatic who runs North Korea? When your favorite candidate, Crooked Clinton was selling 1/5 of US uranium to the Russians for personal gain? I don’t remember your speaking out about with alarm about the actions of those fellow liberals. Did I miss something, Your Holiness?” Also, in the photo that accompanies this article, I don’t know who the man in the middle is, but his puzzled look as he gazes at Francis seems to be saying “What can he possibly imagine he’s doing?!?!?”

  4. Really, how much more evidence do the papal apologists need at this POINT? You either accept reality or you have no credibility. Period.

    No more cute excuses about “bad translations” and “bad advisors”. This isn’t an aberration. This has been Francis/Bergoglio’s NO since long before he became pope. He is the pontiff we deserve in reparation for our laxness and trying to deny the extent to which modernism has infected the hierarchy. If there is a positive to this pontificate, it is that he is proving there can be no compromise with the Faith and the world as the Weigels and others would have us believe. You are either with Tradition and a it’s trappings and manifestations or not.

  5. The most depressing thing is the utter indifference of all of the bishops. Do they have any passion in them? Do they care about anything? The Church is being destroyed and not one can condemn Francis by name.

  6. “God hath not cast away his people, which he foreknew. Know you not what the scripture saith of Elias; how he calleth on God against Israel?
    Lord, they have slain thy prophets, they have dug down thy altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
    But what saith the divine answer to him? I have left me seven thousand men, that have not bowed their knees to Baal.
    Even so then at this present time also, there is a remnant saved according to the election of grace.
    And if by grace, it is not now by works: otherwise grace is no more grace.
    What then? That which Israel sought, he hath not obtained: but the election hath obtained it; and the rest have been blinded.
    As it is written: God hath given them the spirit of insensibility; eyes that they should not see; and ears that they should not hear, until this present day.

    And David saith: Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumbling block, and a recompense unto them.
    Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see: and bow down their back always.”

    (Romans 11,2-10)

  7. We know what we’re confronted with by now and the editors of 1P5 are not hesitant in calling a spade a spade, as are the majority of contributors, commentators. Since at least Feb 2016 this Pontiff has praised abortionists Emma Bonino among the more celebrated at the Vatican. Now Ploumen. It’s his duplicitous messaging game of lamenting abortion with soundbites and full blown support in practice. It’s Satanically devious leading the blind into the pit. Evil has entered and Darkened our Church. Destined to be reckoned with by Christ.

    • Father, at least you’re courageous where others are not, especially bishops. I can only think they fear Jorge more than they fear God and /or, likely don’t even believe in God and God’s wrath.

    • It’s times like these I understand what a beautiful virtue hope is. I hope that the end of this madness draws nigh and Our Lady will soon triumph. This is all abominable. It’s surreal how most Catholics are clueless and continue to adore this repulsive man Jorge Bergoglio.

      • Pearl as a priest I pray for him daily during Mass as required in the Liturgy. My hope is he will convert. If not that his moment will soon pass. Otherwise we must respectfully repudiate him.

        • Father, my children and I pray for his conversion every evening at bedtime prayers. It’s really disheartening to have to pray for the conversion of the Pope. The old joke about the Pope being Catholic isn’t so funny anymore.

    • Do you have the courage to preach this from the pulpit or do you hide your views like the rest of the cowardly clergy, only daring speak the truth in private?

      • Be assured that when you die and I die and you appear and I appear before the only true and Eternal Judge we will be judged for each word that comes out of our mouth or withheld.

          • I do not care what you desire nor do I care about approval, I ask if you, as a priest, who comes here and rightfully discuss the objective issues with the heretic in Rome and the rotten fruits of the Church also does so from the pulpit. There is nothing offensive about my question, however, you are clearly offended. Strange and telling.

            You see Priest the sheep are scandalized(led into sin by the scandal) by the hirelings in the fold. The worst scandal of them all is silence–the silence from the very spiritual fathers who should have the virility and the potency to speak the truth no matter what it costs. The laity do this all the time because, quite frankly, your fellow priests refuse to do so. I am not calling you one, but the cowardice of the Priests is revolting to the red pilled Catholics who have had enough of the false humility and skullduggery of the modernist who refuse to stand and fight. You see Priest the sheep love and care for the Priests and are genuinely concerned for the wrath of God that awaits the unfaithful hirelings. The problem is too many priests do not care about the soul of the flock.

            From our divine King:

            Woe to the pastors, that destroy and tear the sheep of my pasture, saith the Lord. Therefore
            thus saith the Lord the God of Israel to the pastors that feed my
            people: You have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not
            visited them: behold I will visit upon you for the evil of your doings,
            saith the Lord. And
            I will gather together the remnant of my flock, out of all the lands
            into which I have cast them out: and I will make them return to their
            own fields, and they shall increase and be multiplied. And
            I will set up pastors over them, and they shall feed them: they shall
            fear no more, and they shall not be dismayed: and none shall be wanting
            of their number, saith the Lord.

  8. From Marco Tosatti on the response he received from the Vatican Press office regarding the Ploumen award:

    From google translate, so there may be errors:

    The Medal of the order of St Gregory the great received from Mrs. Lilianne Ploumen, former Minister of development, in June 2017, while visiting Dutch Royal family to the Holy Father, responds to the diplomatic practice of the exchange of honors among Delegations on the occasion of official visits of Heads of State or Government at the Vatican.

    It is therefore minimally a placet to politics in favor of abortion and birth control that promotes Mrs Ploumen. ”

    A hug,

    Paloma Garcia Ovejero.

    Even if minimally, it’s still an award for it right?

    Original non-google translated:

    • ………Un abbraccio, ( a hug ) Paloma Garcia Ovejero.

      placet: an affirmative vote in a Church or university assembly.

      A Placet! A Hug! How about that, Folks. The Vatican Press Office speaks from the pit. The mockery IS diabolical.

      The warfare against The Church “from within”, crystallizes a degree or two more!

      • “Non è quindi minimamente un placet alla politica in favore dell’aborto e del controllo delle nascite di cui si fa promotrice la signora Ploumen.”

        Non means not.

        The original translation I used didn’t translate placet and non together.

        • Ok, Fr.RP.
          So Ploumen has herself claimed they knew her pedigree yet they (vatican press office etc..) are making a particular distinction in their statement and using language to distance themselves from her EVIL activities.
          Where have we seen all this before, I don’t buy it, it’s called in political parlance kite flying. THEY KNOW.

      • In Spanish, “Un abrazo” is a common way of ending a letter among friends.
        Italian is much like Spanish, so I don’t see ending a letter with “Un abbraccio” as necessarily disrespectful.

    • I hesitate before correcting even a machine translation, but…

      I think “Non è quindi minimamente un placet…” means something like “it is therefore not in any way an approval…”

      Believe it … or not, as the case may be.

    • You sort of did it here, but I’d like a “short list” of the most horrific things Bergoglio has done. I need to send a letter to my Bishop.

      No generic replies are acceptable. I want him to respond to details.

      • Well, Rod, this list was posted on another site last year and I kept it for future reference. It may assist (if you have the willpower to wade through it).
        *Souls that are not saved are annihilated.
        *The Blessed Mother wanted to yell at God the Father at the base of the cross, “Lies! Lies! I was lied to!”
        *The koran is a source of truth and strength.
        *That atheists can get to Heaven by doing good.
        *That evangelizing is a sin against ‘ecumenism’.
        *That the Jews don’t need Jesus to be saved and we shouldn’t try to convert them.
        *That divorced/remarrieds without annulments can receive Holy Communion (as he told the Argentine bishops, “there is no other interpretation.”)
        *That people can change their sex (referring to the ‘transgender’ he invited for a private audience with ‘spouse’ in tow, “he, who was a she, but is now a he…”)
        *That Jesus needed to plead forgiveness of Mary and Joseph.
        *That the real miracle of the loaves and fishes was sharing “rather than a multiplication”.
        *That a notorious and unrepentant woman personally guilty of murdering over 10,000 babies in the womb is a “forgotten GREAT!”
        *That Christ on the hammer and sickle of marxism is an acceptable thing for a pope to smilingly accept and to wear on his person.
        *That Jesus “made Himself the devil!”
        *That Jesus “likes it” when we say to Him in the confessional, “This is your sin, and I will sin again!”
        *That Martin Luther wasn’t wrong.
        *That Jesus did not tell the Pharisees that divorce is forbidden.
        *That Jesus only “pretends to be angry” with the disciples when Scripture clearly says he was angry with them.
        *That “no one can be condemned forever”…(i.e., there is no hell)
        *That “engaging in dialogue does not mean renouncing our own ideas and traditions, but the claim that they alone are valid or absolute.”

        • If I may add another one from good old NCR: December 28th, 2015

          The Pope reflected on the Sunday reading from the Gospel of Luke, in which a young Jesus stayed in Jerusalem in the Temple, causing great distress to Mary and Joseph when they could not find him.

          “For this little ‘escapade,’ Jesus probably had to beg forgiveness of his parents,” the Pope suggested. “The Gospel doesn’t say this, but I believe that we can presume it.”

          He said that Mary’s question to Jesus — “Why have you treated us like this?” — contains “a certain reproach, revealing the concern and anguish which she and Joseph felt.” The Pope said that Jesus “surely remained close” to Mary and Joseph as a sign of his “complete affection and obedience.”

          Here is the TRUTH:
          Douay-Rheims Bible
          Gospel According to Saint Luke

          ” And it came to pass, that, after three days, they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the doctors, hearing them, and asking them questions. … [47] And all that heard him were astonished at his wisdom and his answers. … [48] And seeing him, they wondered. And his mother said to him: Son, why hast thou done so to us? behold thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing. … [49] And he said to them: How is it that you sought me? did you not know, that I must be about my father’s business? … [50] And they understood not the word that he spoke unto them.”

          • Thanks, cs. Surprised that it’s already two years since he came out with that particular piece of execrable exegesis. Tempus fugit or to put it more colloquially, Time flies like an arrow but fruit flies like a banana.

  9. Last night I found this video by a circuitous route that started in this comments section

    If Steve is looking for topics for articles, I would strongly suggest doing a symposium on the points made in that video about Catholic eschatology. I’ve read at least some of about half a dozen books on the book of revelations in the past year, and I agree with all the points Boniface makes about the apparent inadequacy of the modern state of that subject. His makes three main points about Catholic eschatology: it either is

    1. too preterist—it tends to consider the events depicted by St. John as having already occurred.
    2. too reliant on obscure private revelations
    3. too vague, cautious—afraid of being alarmist

    Concerning the last point, he relates an anecdote about a bible study on eschatology that got nixed by a pastor, an experience that I can personally relate to. However, he then makes the point that, at all times of crisis in the Church’s history, the eschatological alarm has been sounded. So one reason Steve might think about a symposium is because it would be the traditional thing to do.

    And what it means to the sound the eschatological alarm is really just to be speculative about what the seer of Patmos of saw. I have some original (yes original) speculations on the subject that I’ve been dying to share. But for some reason I don’t feel like taking the risk of talking to myself about them in public. Ya know what I mean? I think it would be a very fruitful thing to discuss if anyone wants to have the conversation, if anyone wants to have a mini-symposium down here. So that’s my invitation.

      • Thanks Brian. I haven’t listened to any of the podcasts but I looked through some of the article archives, in particular those under the heading “The Whore of Babylon.” To my mind, the great weakness of catholic eschatology is identifying the whore of Babylon with something other than the church itself. That is to say, the false church. That’s kind of a long discussion though…

        • The Church can’t just change into the Whore of Babylon from the Bride of Christ. That would be a little unfair to us, don’t you think? The sedes, whom I don’t happen to hate with the white-hot heat of a thousand suns, seem to think that the Papacy is what holds back the antichrist and that he will necessarily be removed from this post prior to his arrival, see 2Thess 2:7. Of course, they believe he has been removed from his seat now, so we can expect this charmer to be ushered in anytime now. To me, it’s not so crazy and gets less so by the day.

    • There is absolutely nothing wrong with a preterist understanding of the Book of the Apocalypse, as long as it is acknowledged that all Biblical prophecy has the capacity for multiple fulfilment. Yes, the immediate object of St John’s vision was the whore Jerusalem and her coming destruction. But which city is Jerusalem now – which city is killing the law and the prophets and recrucifying Our Lord?

      • Agreed. The problem is that much of the scholarship I’ve read is TOO preterist and does not acknowledge multiple fulfillment. And the problem with multiple fulfillment is that there are not endless fulfillments. The symbols will finally signify ONE thing. Moreover, I agree with Fr. Kramer in The Book of Destiny that the whore of babylon cannot be convincingly projected onto Jerusalem or the Roman Empire.

        • I don’t know why Fr. Kramer could not see that the whore of Babylon depicted Jerusalem in the first instance. The destruction depicted in the Apocalypse, the mini-apocalypses in each of the synoptics and Josephus’ “The Jewish Wars” fulfil so perfectly the covenant curses of Deut 28 that I find it hard to conceive of anything else it could be. Though I still consider all of that to be a type of what will come – we haven’t seen anything yet.

          • Because Fr. Kramer was only interested in the literal meaning of the book of revelations. The whore of babylon has sometihng to do with the beast from the sea in ch. 13, and what that has to do with Jerusalem is not obvious.

    • Joachim of Fiore’s writings and the Fraticelli, the ‘spiritual Franciscans’, have been officially condemned by the Church and refuted by Saints and Doctors of the Church and his teaching on the Trinity was condemned by the Lateran Council in 1215.
      Wild speculation about the End of the World benefits no one. If everyone instead properly prepared for their own end they would be completely ready for the End of the World.

        • Our Lady didn’t tell us to speculate about the end, she told us to do penance and make reparation for our own sins and the sins of the world. Any chastisements she warned about were merely the consequences of us failing to repent.

          • I think we’re getting hung up on the word “speculate.” The issue is truth. Marianna Bartold, who has written for this website, wrote a book called Fatima: the signs and secrets. Now there is a profound piece of “speculation” in that book about the star of Esther and the meaning of Fatima. I think Ms. Bartold was right to speculate about that star, because I think it makes people like me more not less likely to repent after reading about it.

        • Our Lady has never wildly speculated about the End of the World. Are you being overly reliant on private revelation, which was condemned in the above talk and yet also promoted in the above talk?

          By the way, I did not condemn speculation about the End Times as being evil, I said wild speculation about the end. The above author appears to condemn the protestants for that and then also appears to endorse it with alarmist speculation being called for.

          How come the above speaker didn’t mention that Joachim of Fiore and his disciples were officially condemned by the Church and refuted by Aquinas and Bonaventure, the Lateran Council etc…? It’s seems that he relied on them for the promotion of his version of Eschatology.

          And let me recall Sacred Scripture for you and what Jesus says about it: Mark 13: 32-37:

          But of that day or that hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. Take heed, watch and pray;[a] for you do not know when the time will come. It is like a man going on a journey, when he leaves home and puts his servants in charge, each with his work, and commands the doorkeeper to be on the watch. Watch therefore—for you do not know when the master of the house will come, in the evening, or at midnight, or at cockcrow, or in the morning— lest he come suddenly and find you asleep. And what I say to you I say to all: Watch.”

          Watching principally regards living in a state of Grace at all times because one never knows when death and judgment will come, either individually, or for the whole world. Hence as I said above, if everyone properly took care of their own death in Christ, they would be properly prepared for the End of the World.

          If you slip and fall on a wet floor and crack you skull and die, it’s the End of the World for you isn’t it? If you’re prepared for that via a life in Fidelity to Christ, then you are prepared for the Last Day as Well. If you’re not prepared for the skull cracking on the wet floor, you’re also not prepared for the Last Day.

          Eschatology should always be linked to the individuals death, as the two are related intrinsically.

          • Look, I believe symbolism requires speculation for the sake of truth. Our Lady of Knock is a perfect example of that. If that’s not an invitation to speculate I don’t know what is.

            I don’t THINK all private revelations are ACTUALLY equal even if they are officially equal. Do you?

            “How come the above speaker didn’t mention that Joachim of Fiore and his disciples were officially condemned by the Church and refuted by Aquinas and Bonaventure, the Lateran Council etc…? It’s seems that he relied on them for the promotion of his version of Eschatology.”

            I don’t understand that

          • I already told you in the above. However, I will say it more plainly: To Watch is to be on guard against the Word, the Flesh and the Devil, so as to not be tripped up and lead astray against the teaching of Christ by the spirit of Anti-Christ, who is already in the world.

            It means keeping oneself free of all Grave Sin, and even intentional Venial Sin, so as to be prepared to meet Christ the Judge at any moment. It means to be concerned with giving witness to Christ by living a life of Virtue and Charity, not seeking material gains for oneself in this Life, but seeking to Glorify God with their Life.

            It doesn’t mean trying to interpret everything going on in the world to see if it matches one’s own idea of what the Apocalypse of St. John, or other biblical passages say.

            If one notes certain things as being signs of the End, then fine (there are many of them and their has been since the Ascension of the Lord, because since then we have been in the Last Hour), but that doesn’t equate to buying hundreds of pounds of Rice and hunkering in the bunker in the basement with a Blessed Candle.

          • I don’t think we’re disagreeing, but I do think you’re contradicting yourself. That passage in Mathew is obviously eschatological. You’re saying preparing for the end is unlike preparing for your death, but I’m not.

          • Of course it is eschatological, that’s why I posted it. A person’s individual end and The End are intrinsically linked. And I said to be prepared for The End, then simply prepare for a Happy Death. I didn’t disunite the two, I united them.

            However, no more posting on this subject here please, as this is hijacking the thread.

          • Father, this skull cracking idea is how I have always felt, too. It’s very Catholic and I can’t understand the heavy symbolism in Apocalypse, so I’ve gone w/that. But, I have been under the impression that the last of the last days will be quite horrible with war and persecution and that if you don’t take the mark of the beast, you don’t eat. Did you know that people can literally go crazy when they starve to death? It will be very difficult to let your children starve and this is something that will take a level of sanctification on much a different level than just when your time is up sanctification. It seems like a time to steel yourself.

          • If you live in a State of Grace by abiding in Jesus Christ and putting away all intentional Sin and frequent the Sacraments of Confession and Holy Communion, pray the Rosary seeking Our Blessed Lady’s intercession for you and yours (and the conversion of sinners) you will be given everything you need to endure and indeed glorify God.

            If the ancient Christian could defy the Emperor and refuse to burn incense to him and endure every torment and death, then so can we, for we have the same Lord and Savior as they have and the same assistance from God and the same Heaven to Hope for and the Same Hell to fear. (Paraphrase from St. John Vianney)

            The same can be said for all of the Christians tortured and martyred by Islam and Communists in the modern world.

      • Joachim of Fiore’s writings do have the benefit of a guess and check exercise. If the everlasting gospel is not what he said it was, well, it might be what I would say it is: one of the three ways the city is divided after its destruction. Do you see what I mean?

          • yes im not against my Catolic christening-Faith you heaar me! -God less????????????????????????????????????

          • I hear you, but if you post Videos from Evangelicals that have writing at the end of that lumps Catholicism in with Islam and Atheism as a False religion (which you did, and I chose to give you the benefit of the doubt), then you are going to be asked not to post anti-Catholic videos and writings. Do you hear me?

            This was under your little video of the Lake of Fire: “Catholicism, Islam, Atheism, Agnosticism, Mormonism, Jehovah’s Witness doctrine, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, and more are false! DON’T BE A FAKE CHRISTIAN!”

          • im not but i struggle as all of us father????sorry❣❣❣????????????

            2018-01-16 3:18 GMT+01:00 Disqus :

    • And having a symposium on Revelation here would be what is called ‘hijacking a thread’ which is not permitted under 1P5 posting regulations. And, to a large part, we have already done this. So, let us not do it anymore.

      If you want to write an article on End Times in regards to current affairs and submit it to Steve via the submitting guidelines then please do. If it’s accepted, then we can have that little symposium on that page as it will be appropriate to do so.

      • “Eschatology should always be linked to the individual’s death, as the two are related intrinsically.”

        I am embarrassed to say, I had to look up the word eschatology and read it in context as well before being able to
        follow conversations. But I like what you said Father. I have great peace in the above quote of yours.
        Thank you.

  10. We are going to have to take it, suffer more, feel abandoned by our earthly Church and wait for someone to pick up the sword and fight for her. We have the three weapons to fight this evil, this seduction of the perversion of mercy and the heresies now and on the near horizon: 1.). The Rosary is our sword. 2.). The Scapula is our shield 3.). The Eucharist is our food. No fear of Francis and his henchmen. “ If God is for us then who can be against us?” Romans 8:31

    • Thanks for that rallying cry. Because I was starting to feel as if my efforts were worth little more in this battle than to sit in front of a computer screen clicking on these little chevrons.

    • Dear Cheryl, Your post speaks volumes esp. the way you used “abandoned”.

      We have other weapons to defeat this onslaught of evil intentions and I hope that you agree that making a regular confession, frequent penance and sacrifices, attending adoration and trying to meet Our Lady’s request for the first Saturdays will produce the spiritual fruit that we need to stand firm and endure.

      • Yes Christopher. We cannot forget Our Lady’s requests, for our soul and the souls of others.
        My ” bullet points” lacked the fullness of what needed to be vitally included.
        Thank you!

  11. “Sources say that a routine exchange of decorations was made between officials from the Vatican and from the Dutch delegation,”

    So, this honor is now a participation trophy? I thought you exchanged blessed rosaries for tulips or something like that.

  12. I pray that God will not make us endure another Bergoglio–or worse–once he is gone. May there already be a spiritual son of Giuseppe Sarto, on fire for Christ, quietly making ready his whip of cords.

  13. I see our peripatetic pope has once again delivered one of this off-the-cuff news conferences at 30000 ft. (SHUDDER) This time he pretends to be an expert on nuclear weapons and the likelihood of war. Strange that a man well-informed enough to pontificate (pun intended) on such matters wouldn’t know the background of someone to whom he is awarding a medal.

  14. When is someone going to call this guy out as a disgrace? Forget wether he is a formal heretic or apostate – just concentrate on the basic scandal here. This is approval of child murder – simple.

  15. Reflecting on the prophecy of St. Malachy today, and had a thought I have not read anywhere before. Someone spot check me on this: the last Pope could be Peter the Roman because…he denied Christ three times and later was rebuked by a fellow apostle. Later this same apostle was marching the wrong way on the road to Rome. But finally he repented, and went an died a martyr for Christ. Might this be Pope Francis?

    The point being that he has been completely derelict in his duty to confirm the brethren, as Jesus requested. Peter did the opposite and had to be rebuked. Well, before he can repent, someone has to rebuke him. Peter repented. Maybe St. Malachy prophesied the true spirit of the last pope?

    Is it possible for Pope Francis? That is a wonderful hope.

    Bishops, Cardinals, janitors, journalists, ossified manualists, space is greater than timers, old maids, hypocrites, promethean neopelagians, radtrads, maybe even some Protestants: someone, say something!

    It only took ONE apostle to set Peter straight. Maybe just ONE of the Pope’s brethren could step forward?

    Peter the Roman, feed your sheep! You are the man, like Samuel pointed out to David!

    TL:DR – The last pope of St. Malachy’s prophecy (if it’s legit) is Peter the Roman, who needs to be rebuked before he can repent in order to be a pope like Peter.

    • “Someone spot check me on this: the last Pope could be Peter the Roman because…he denied Christ three time and later was rebuked by a fellow apostle. ”

      Nope. Peter the Roman can’t be Francis.

      There are no “apostles” who will rebuke him………..

      PS: It was Nathan; “Thou art the man”. {ex-Protestant here, couldn’t help it… 😉 }

      • Oops, Fixed the Nathan error.

        By apostles, I mean by proxies his brothers in the college of cardinals.

        Francis could yet be a type of Peter. And that is certainly more hopeful than any single thought I’ve had since that black-shoe evening on the balcony eons and eons ago.

        Ex-temporary-Protestant revert too, with a Bible degree. My bad 🙂

          • It would really be a miracle, because he has to take a 180 on so many of his positions. But hey, if God can convert Saul to St Paul, he can obviously do it with PF.

          • Saul was persecuting and killing Christians, and with that Saul was actually helping Christians to reach the Heaven faster than usual…
            Bergoglio is doing totally opposite of that to all Christians. To all people. Especially to the Catholics.
            He lead them not to the Heaven. Here must be a huge difference between Saul and Bergoglio. Don’t you think?

          • Sure, there are stark differences but where they both overlap is that both PF and pre-conversion Saul was that their actions are not pleasing to God. If you have a look at what PF has done on the issue of open borders alone, you can see that something is not right.

          • I understand you Mark. And there is not just ‘something not right’, and not only with the open borders. But there is nothing right with that man. What I am saying is that there cannot be any comparison between JMB and even Saul. Not even if he ever would convert. I’ll go step further and will say there cannot be comparison neither with Stallin or Hitler, and yes, I know that sounds a little bit rigid, but mind, JMB seems to be an occupant of the Vatican seat, while all others, which I’ve mentioned were that not. And THAT makes a HUGE difference between them (all) and JMB (Jorge Mario Bergoglio).

          • I truly admire so many who pray for this man. I do, as well, but it is VERY difficult, and they are very short bursts of prayer for him throughout the day. It is for the reasons you have well stated, that I find this duty very painful. It is one thing to do evil, but yet, another, when given such position and authority to foster that evil onto others in the most seductive and cunning manner, leading them to a wasteland here and for eternity.

            When Bergoglio came to my country, I had the opportunity to go to Philadelphia to see him.
            I quietly declined, thinking if he were to come to my neighborhood, I would be compelled to run far and fast from him. It might sound very dramatic, for I am not one to run…..but, I assure you, I would have.
            For some reason, back then, I sensed the need to be protected from this man, his ways, his style, his
            falseness. And as it became clearer, as to his agenda, his anti Christ agenda, I think I could look him in the face and well……not so much prayer would come from me, ……..but to tell him to take a hike!

            I believe you hit the nail on the head, from my perspective.

      • I see your point, but some are still sold on the phrase concerning Pope Benedict XV: “religion depopulated”. I think it won’t be very long before we can indefinitely put this Prophecy to rest.

  16. Maybe y’all should revisit the idea that Pope Benedict XVI’s abdication was done in error or under duress and this guy isn’t the Pope. It’s worth investigating the idea thoroughly. If you have the resources, I certainly don’t, you’d be doing the Church a service to look into it if possible.

  17. Elizabeth Maria Josepha “Lillian” Ploumen was formerly Chairwoman of the”Labour Party, a Socialist Democrat Party in the Netherlands.” (Wikipedia) Pope Francis continues his attachment to Communism and would love us all to convert. Warning Warning! The Socialist Democrat Party is becoming active in America. Check it out.

  18. One thing I heard from Veritas Caritas yesterday that is worth saying at this moment: Do. Not. Abandon. The. Church. Do not enter into schism because the Catholic Church is the Church, Christ will not abandon Her. Yes, we have apostates, faithless leaders and maybe heretics. But it is worth being reminded that no sooner had Christ died than the first pope denied him three times and went into hiding with nine other disciples. One disciple committed suicide. One stuck with Him. One. One out of 12. Still, Christ did not throw the others to the rubbish pile: He came and called them back to Him.

    I needed to hear that in a bad way. Perhaps it will help others.

    • Thumbs up. Frankie NEVER tells Catholics to hang tough and go to Mass; he discourages Catholics from practicing. So, if Frankie irritates you, get back at him by sticking around: go to Mass during the week (in addition to Sunday); donate to Catholic grade schools (instead of the Campaign for Human Development and Peter’s Pence); send checks to the FSSP and SPPX.

    • What schism? To side with the TLM or the Vatican 2? I was confirmed in a TLM CHURCH. I’m not a cradle catholic. It is a no brainer to me that I will go with the traditional church.

      • There are no SIDES! This is the Church that Christ founded! That is the point! Don’t go walking away from the Church and the dioceses that are fully in communion and offer valid, licit sacraments based on how the Church defines those, not how you or anybody else wants to define them. Who gave Luther the authority to leave the Church and claim legitimacy? From whence does SSPX draw its authority? You? The late Archbishop Lefebvre?

        What if I start denying the Church on the basis of anything it proclaimed after Trent? Wouldn’t that be even more faithful than SSPX? What if denied the Annunciation and other articles of the faith declared after Trent? Why not be the ultimate traditionalist?

        • Excuse me there ARE two sides. There are the traditional Catholics and there are the liberal Vatican 2 Catholics. I’m not walking away from anything. I converted from Protestantism to the TLM and it is the fullness of the faith as far as I’m concerned. Vat2 is a disgrace.

          • You’re not excused. Catholic is Catholic: one either subscribes to all the doctrine and dogmas of the faith or one is not Catholic. You don’t get to define who is Catholic — we have tradition, teachings, dogma and Scripture to do that. Those who follow all of those–whether they agree with or understand it all–are Catholic, those who do not, are not.

            I ask again, why not found a church that rejects everything after Trent and claim ultimate tradition? Or, heck, why accept Trent? Why not just….I can’t even think of a term so I’ll make one up….go Sola Scriptura and reject everything you don’t like and claim that the only authority is the Bible and how you interpret it? At least Luther was intellectually honest enough to just leave the Church and stop calling himself Catholic.

          • And pope Francis and his liberal cabal don’t gwt to spread heresies either and just change anything they feel like when 2,000 years of church tradition have kept the church alive along with scripture. You are woefully ignorant. . One day you will find out just how evil Vatican ll is. Good luck with that. This conversation is over

          • No, my friend, people who separate themselves from the Church are ignorant. Peter denied Christ three times and was made pope. Don’t ever forget that.

    • I always get hesitant reading the comments on 1P5. At least 4 other people agreed with you. I’ll take that as consolation.

  19. I remember reading about when Popes and bishops used to admonish leaders for supporting immoral legislation or agendas against the faith. Now they just get awards.

    Evangelization by “attraction” and acting nice is not working. It wasn’t working for the so-called Saintly Popes of recent memory and it won’t work now. The malaise continues.

    • We are called to do one thing only; Christians are compelled to do this one thing only: present the saving Gospel of Jesus Christ. No matter when or where or whether life is at stake: Jesus.

      Attraction and nice are irrelevant to a Christian. Only Jesus matters to them.

      Those who don’t know Jesus rely instead on marketing strategies.

      Those who hate Jesus attract His enemies.

        • What do you mean: “harass them to death”? That sounds like Pope Francis’ admonition to stop “proselytizing”. That is alien to Christianity.

          Good news is good news. Heaven is forever. So is hell. Shoot, mortal life itself sucks without Jesus, holiness exchanged for immersion in sin and depravity. Good news now. Good news in eternity. “Pearl of great price” and all. That’s what we offer. Most people would be happy to win the lottery.

          No need to waste time on those who love sin and hate God, I agree. “Pearls before swine”. But Jesus made us here so we can enjoy Him, and be enjoyed by Him, “there”. That needs to be said. To the “ends of the earth”, to everyone we can.

          • Are you catholic? Have you ever been encountered by an evangelical street preacher? If you had you’d know what I mean. If you tell them you’re Catholic they instantly tell you that the RCC is a cult of a dead woman and you’re going to hell and they will harangue and harangue and badger you until you’re ready to pull your heir out. I know what I’m talking about. I was evangelical before I converted. Some of them never know when to quit and they have no respect for the dignity of a human being. I never did that because I always thought it was a vulgar insulting way to share Christ with people. I would happily discuss my beliefs if someone asked and even share acripture to back it up but I never pushed. You need to visit a “spirit filled” evangelical church and then make sure to identify yourself as catholic. Better put on your flack jacket.

          • Evangelism is relationship. It means sharing the saving Gospel of Jesus Christ with those you know. If it is the most important thing to you, then it will naturally be something you wish to share with others. Those others are those in your “circle”; family, friends, associates. Missionaries may, perhaps, widen that circle.

            Most people do not go out to a street corner and yell football statistics and the latest news about their favorite team at passerby. That is weird. Yet, get a group of passionate fans together over a few beverages and talk away. It’s like that. “Drive-by” evangelism is weird in the same way, and alien to the Faith. Evangelism is as natural as breathing to one who loves his Lord.

            What we love, we live.

          • You are naive. I know what I’m talking about because I have both witnessed and experienced it while evangelical and as a Catholic. Are you catholic? You didn’t answer my question.

          • I am Catholic.

            Please explain what it is about what I wrote that implies to you that I am not. I am curious about that.

            It seems to me that Catholics are good at showing up to Mass on Sunday. They are not very good at sharing and explaining their Faith to those who are doomed and unhappy. Do you feel this is opposed to being Catholic?

          • No Catholics aren’t. But wvangelicals are not taught to evangelize in a way that is respectful to people. Try Inviting people to mass or living by example are truly powerful ways of getting an unbelievers attention. Then you can start a dialogue that is respectful. The evangelical method is pure emotionalism. Recently I was walking down the street in my town and two guys were on the street corners with signs screaming at the cars and pedestrians the usual fire and brimstone and as I walked by they cornered me. Even after I told them I already know the lord they wouldn’t accept that. You really need to go to a hypercharismatic, Pentecostal or Baptist Church some time. Better yet go to a tent revival. And make sure you tell them you are catholic. And then watch out. You can find videos on YT as well. Copeland, hagin, Todd bwntlwy, chuck missler, there are so many. Or watch TBN or CBN. if you don’t understand after any of those experiences then there is no hope for you I’m afraid.

          • You are talking about a microscopically tiny subset. I may have seen one or two such people in my life, (quickly approaching 60). I am not personally affected or altered by knowing such people exist out there. Somewhere.

            My point is, people are lost. People are suffering. People immersed in perhaps the most sinful generation ever need salvation from.their.sins. We offer them victory over sin insanity, and relationship with their Maker. We offer them deliverance from eternal damnation and fire. We offer happiness and beatitude, now and in eternity. Why would we not deliver what we have to those we know who need this?

            I personally cannot help doing so. It’s who I am.

          • No you are WRONG. It is not a microscopic subset. We are taught as wvangelicals to witness that way. Most evangelicals witness in a fiery way and some are insessant. In evangelical churches they have weekly altar calls to come up to get saved. The same with tent revivals. Your are really disrespectful telling someone who came out of that background that I am wrong. I lived it. I also saw the same people go up to the altar calls week after week. Are they saved this week or were they saved last week? It’s pure emotionalism. That’s why I liked my RCIA class where my priest intellectually and calmly taught us our Baltimore catechism and he taught the supernatural aspects of christianity,, not with hype or emotionalism, but with reason and intelligence. You simply don’t know what you are talking about and I’m sick of you insulting me with your condescension.

          • So how are Catholics sharing their faith? How are we producing converts? What are you doing to produce converts? Luke 11:33, Mark 16:15

            Of all the things we do in our limited time, what else really matters?

          • Here’s another question. I was an Anglican. I attended a TLM Catholic Church several times. I fell in love with it and knew I wanted to be Catholic. No one screamed at me or “love bombed” which is another evangelical trick to make people feel welcome. I saw the beauty truth and goodness of the true church and felt the presence of the Holy Spirit like nowhere else I had ever been. So how is it that I converted? No person can convert or save you. It is the Holy Spirit that does that job.

    • As a former evangelical Anglican I cannot stand the idea of getting in someone’s grill, shouting “do you know Jesus Christ as your personal lord and savior?” It was a turnoff to me. I like just inviting people to mass. If they have questions then we can talk. If they want to come again I’ll bring them. But many people are turned off by the street witnessing Schlick.

      • Yes, because there is only two ways to do this: being nice and inviting them to Mass and never explicitly tell them about the necessity of Catholicism, or get in their grill and shout at them.

        How come every time I bring this up, someone always reacts and thinks the only other way to do things is yell at people and be a jerk? Why? Please think beyond just two options.

        And we’re talking about politicians who publicly support and promote evil, not some private citizen who is just trying to live their life. A normal person should be approached differently, a public person promoting evil should be met with a harsher tone.

        • No to are wrong. Try reading history. Do you think mission work began with the reformation? The Catholic Church has evangelized the world since the apostles walked the earth and it was never their way to act like carnival barkers and hyping everyone up. You are woefully uneducated. Try reading the history of Christianity.

          • You want me to read history, but you cannot even understand what I am saying in an internet combox?

            If I say evangelization by attraction does not work, that *doesn’t* mean the only other option is to be a jerk and yell at people.

            Does that make sense?

          • I understand exactly what you are saying and I have refuted you several times now. Do you have any idea how many evangelicals who are “converted” through emotionalism and theatrics often fall away later on and become nothing? No you don’t because you didn’t spend most of your life in that environment as I did. And you don’t have enough respect for me to consider my experience. So I’m done here.

          • You are accusing me of saying we should evangelize through the following (to quote you):

            “…getting in someone’s grill, shouting… act like carnival barkers and hyping everyone up… emotionalism and theatrics”

            Please prove to me and everyone here that I said this. You are making things up. I have said the *exact opposite*

            Also, you are making assumptions about me, my experience and education. You don’t know anything about me and have uncharitably assumed I have no experience in this area or education.

            You are either trying to very sloppily run away from this conversation where you have been proven wrong about what I said or you are a troll.

  20. I think it might be good to point out that Jimmy Saville was not known for any criminal doings in 1990 when the Order of St. Gregory award was given to him, whereas Ploumen in 2017 was internationally known as a rabid abortion advocate and architect for the international abortion fund. Without clarifying this, it could raise doubts that John Paul II was abetting a public offender. Ploumen is basically the Cecile Richards of the Netherlands who sits among global giants, and a global-minded pope who knows faces and profiles and who personally met Ploumen would be keenly aware of her work, in the same way he is aware of Emma Bonino’s.

      • Like kissing the Koran and allowing pagan services to be practiced in St. Peter’s. Jpll was a tireless anti communist and I admire him for that but he went off the rails with his modernist Vatican 2 beliefs and ecumenism. I don’t mind a little ecumenism with other Christian faiths but not with pagan or evil religions. . He was also very sick later on. The Vatican needs to make term limits. Lol

  21. The scandal is not limited to Ploumens pro-abortion stand. In 2010 Ploumen called for a disturbing holy mass in Den Bosch (archdiocese of Noord-Brabant), because the priest refused to hand out holy communion to the Prince Carnival of that moment who was actively gay. She went her self demonstrating, while she was chairwoman of the Dutch Socialist Party (PVDA). Apart from the foul act against Christ, a grave interference of politics in church affairs.

  22. By the way, is it valid enough at this point to question whether PF is really anti-abortionist or not? Note his encyclical “Laudato Si”, to his repeated avoidance of pro-life groups, to this. You can talk about abortion being wrong all you want, but when you invite Lilliane and Joe Biden to the Vatican to talk about medicine, your pro-life talk just doesn’t sound credible.

    • Though none of us can read his intentions, I’m sure there’s enough quotes out there o support the fact that he bashes Capitalism and free market economics way more than he does Socialism and Communism.

        • I bet he’d say something along the lines of “The US is the problem, all its gains are ill gotten from all its 20th century imperialist ventures and ought to give up its wealth to expiate its many sins, namely by signing back onto the Paris Climate Agreement, open its borders and abandon Capitalism with all its unseen forces.” I think that’s a good summary of his quotes.

          • You’re right. Our 20th century “imperialist ventures” like saving Europe and Asia in two world wars at great blood and treasure? Pope Francis forgets what we did for the world. That’s not to mention that we saved both our enemies from starvation and rebuilt their daggone countries too. What wicked capitalists we are. Lol

          • Funny, I live in upstate ny on Lake Ontario and we just had four feet of global warming. Lol. these climate change people are loons.

  23. “The distinciton with the Papal Medal of St. Gregory the Great awarded to Miss Lilianne Ploumen, the minister of development in June 2017, during the visit of the Royal Couple paid to Holy Father, is a part of a diplomatic custom of the exchange of distinctions between delegation at the occasion of visits of Heads of States and Governments in Vatican.


    With best regards Paloma Gracia Ovejero”

    “L’onorificenza dell’Ordine Pontificio di San Gregoria Magno ricevuat dell Signora Lillianne Ploumen, gia Ministro dello Sviluppo, nell giunio 2017, durante la visita dei Reali olendesi al Sante Padro, risponde alla practica diplomati dello scambio di onoroficenze fra Delegazioni in occasione visiti uffiziali de Capi de Stato a di Governo in Vaticano.

    Non di qundi minimamente un placet della politica in favore dell’aborto e dell controllo delle nascite di cui si fa promotrice la signoria Ploumen.

    Un abbracio, Paloma Gracia Ovejero”

    I am sorry that all the successes of real good are so troublesome to the promotors of the murder of human persons (hidden in the wombs of their mothers) that they do not spare efforts at distorting true state of affairs. I am still more sorry that many believers are so eager to treat imperfections of Holy Father, which we see from time to time, as already signs of apostasia. Imprefections are not heresy.

  24. If the Vatican gave the honor to a man in this group that supported jailing all homosexuals or said those who perform transgender “surgery” should be in jail does anyone think they would spin it the way they do now?

    • That is an excellent analogy.

      I can only imagine the tailchasing and subsequent fawning and bellowing of apologies that pour forth from every orifice of the Vatican!

      It really has gotten to be boring and predictable. We know what boilerplate leftist crap these frauds are going to say before they vomit it out…

    • Boludo or boluda is a slang word in Argentina that roughly means something more like “jerk.” Use it with caution in the streets of Buenos Aires because it can be quite an insult, depending on the context.

  25. The ‘pope of surprises’ keeps us continually in scandal mode. The false Vatican church calls evil good and expects us to go along with it. Millions do.

  26. Fr Peter West looks to be more courageous than all the world’s bishops and cardinals who are remaining cowardly dumb. He doesn’t care about the oblique retaliation he is upon to get from the Pope through the US catholic hierarchy.
    What a shame !
    The cafeteria catholic women are now convinced that abortion isn’t a murder nor a very serious mortal sin. The Pope has okayed them to abort as many times as they want and the anti-abortion associations have just lost their last strong support
    It’s open season on catholic families who breed like rabbits !
    Well done Francis, Satan is very happy today!

  27. The first seal of Revelation explains everything:
    “I watched as the Lamb opened the first of the seven seals. Then I heard one of the four living creatures say in a voice like thunder, “Come!” 2 I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest.” – Revelation 6,1-2

    – white colour symbolises the Church which is the Body of Jesus
    – rider did not win, but still he received a crown as he did win (St Gallen Mafia pressured pope Benedict to leave and made setup for Bergoglio, which is of course not confirmed by God, but catholics think he is)
    – after he received a crown he went to conquest, which is to change the teaching of the Church
    – even the thunder prophecied in this vision really happened: the same day pope Benedict resigned lighting stroke the St Peter Basilica in Rome, the symbol of the papacy

  28. This greatly disturbs me, as it greatly disturbed me some
    years ago when Fr. John Jenkins, CSC gave a law degree, H.C. to former
    President Barack Obama at the University of Notre Dame. Welcome these politicians? Absolutely.
    Give them a papal decoration while having full knowledge they are not
    only pro-abortion but also publicly legislate to further abortion on-demand?
    Absolutely NOT! There are other
    “keepsake” items, i.e. papal rosaries and struck medals, that would
    be far more appropriate than a papal decoration for those who persist in publicly
    promoting that which is a grave human rights crime against unborn
    children. I rarely speak out against a
    Pope, but he is the boss, and at some point he signed off on this during his
    watch and probably handed the medal to this woman. This offering of decoration
    of highest caliber to Ms. Ploumen is truly scandalous, and the Holy Father
    himself could not convince me otherwise.
    I can only imagine it has happened before and will happen again. You know, Pope Francis has asked us priests
    to be genuine and forsake titles and honorifics in our own priesthood, i.e. he
    did away with the monsignor title as an expression of humility. Fine and good, but it would be nice if he
    would lead by example on this stuff and do away with granting papal honorifics,
    most especially for those who would tear at the very foundations of our

  29. How can such a person be given this honour? There are hundred, perhaps thousands of Catholics, who have done something for the Church and their contribution is not even acknowledged!


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