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Why We Can’t Be Indifferent to Indifferentism


Why does it matter if people convert to Catholicism? Isn’t being Methodist good enough? Is a lapsed Catholic — a part of our religion by baptism — beyond hope? What about a nominal Christian who believes in doing good, even though she rarely darkens the doorstep of a church? And what about all those of other faiths – Hindis, Buddhists, Jews, Muslims, and so on?

The answer to the question is simple: yes, it matters; more than anything else in this life. Though you don’t often hear it expressed in such clear language these days, the Catholic Faith is the True Faith, the one Church established by Christ for the remission of sins and the salvation of souls. We profess as much in the Creed, when we say that we believe in “one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church” and when we “confess one baptism for the remission of sins.” One Church. One Baptism. Not many. Without these, there can be no salvation.

“Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.” (Jn 3:5)

It is true that we share our one baptism with other Christian denominations, provided that they practice the sacrament according to its proper matter and form. And while this washes away original and actual sin, and saves us from the clutches of the Devil, baptism alone is not enough enough to get us through this life. We need the other sacraments; in particular, we need the Eucharist:

I am the bread of life. Your fathers did eat manna in the desert, and are dead. This is the bread which cometh down from heaven; that if any man eat of it, he may not die. I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever; and the bread that I will give, is my flesh, for the life of the world. The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying: How can this man give us his flesh to eat? Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say unto you: Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed: and my blood is drink indeed. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, abideth in me, and I in him. As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father; so he that eateth me, the same also shall live by me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. Not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead. He that eateth this bread, shall live for ever. (Jn. 6:48-59)

But to receive the Eucharist, we must first be cleansed of our sins:

But let a man prove himself: and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of the chalice. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not discerning the body of the Lord. Therefore are there many infirm and weak among you, and many sleep.  (1 Cor. 11:28-30)

How are we to be cleansed? By absolution – a power granted by Christ to his apostles and priests:

 He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained. (Jn. 20:21-23)

And all of this is given under the authority of the papacy, granted to Peter by Christ himself:

And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven. (Mt. 16:18-19)

It is for all of these reasons that the Church has infallibly declared, through a successor to St. Peter, the necessity of membership in the Church for those desirous of eternal salvation. in the papal Pope Boniface VIII decreed this truth in the papal bull Unam Sanctam in 1302:

Urged by faith, we are obliged to believe and to maintain that the Church is one, holy, catholic, and also apostolic. We believe in her firmly and we confess with simplicity that outside of her there is neither salvation nor the remission of sins…Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff.

“Outside of her there is neither salvation nor the remission of sins…” This is a phrase that echoes the much earlier words of St. Cyprian of Carthage, now famous (if rarely heeded): Extra ecclesiam nulla salus – Outside the Church there is no salvation. In his Treatise on the Unity of the Church, St. Cyprian asks:

Who, then, is so wicked and faithless, who is so insane with the madness of discord, that either he should believe that the unity of God can be divided, or should dare to rend it–the garment of the Lord–the Church of Christ? He Himself in His Gospel warns us, and teaches, saying, “And there shall be one flock and one shepherd” (St. John 10:16). And does any one believe that in one place there can be either many shepherds or many flocks? The Apostle Paul, moreover, urging upon us this same unity, beseeches and exhorts, saving, “I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no schisms among you; but that ye be joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment” (I Corinthians 1:10).

Even the so-called “ecumenism of blood” — a popular concept in our times — is an idea that can easily fall short of the truth. St. Cyprian teaches:

Even if such men were slain in confession of the Name, that stain is not even washed away by blood: the inexpiable and grave fault of discord is not even purged by suffering. He cannot be a martyr who is not in the Church; he cannot attain unto the kingdom who forsakes that which shall reign there. Christ gave us peace; He bade us be in agreement, and of one mind. He charged the bonds of love and charity to be kept uncorrupted and inviolate; he cannot show himself a martyr who has not maintained brotherly love.

Pope Eugene IV emphasizes these same truths in the papal bull Cantate Domino, issued from the Council of Florence in 1441:

The Most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews, and heretics, and schismatics, can ever be partakers of eternal life, but that they are to go into the eternal fire “which was prepared for the devil, and his angels,” (Mt. 25:41) unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this Ecclesiastical Body, that only those remaining within this unity can profit from the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and that they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, almsdeeds, and other works of Christian piety and duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved unless they abide within the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.

So what are we to make of all of this? Is it possible for someone not Roman Catholic to be saved? The simple answer is a resounding no. The theological answer is somewhat more complex. The Catholic Encyclopedia explains:

The Fathers and theologians frequently divide baptism into three kinds: the baptism of water (aquæ or fluminis), the baptism of desire (flaminis), and the baptism of blood (sanguinis). However, only the first is a real sacrament. The latter two are denominated baptism only analogically, inasmuch as they supply the principal effect of baptism, namely, the grace which remits sins. It is the teaching of the Catholic Church that when the baptism of water becomes a physical or moral impossibility, eternal life may be obtained by the baptism of desire or the baptism of blood.

Each of these other baptisms has their own definition, but we do not have sufficient space to do more than summarize these here. The essential distinction to be made by the non-sacramental baptisms of desire and blood are their unifying aspects – through each, a soul is united to the “bosom and unity of the Catholic Church,” rather than persisting in the error of separation. As the Encyclopedia states of baptism of desire, “justifying grace is bestowed on account of acts of perfect charity or contrition … it is evident that these acts supply the place of baptism as to its principal effect, the remission of sins.” And again, on baptism of blood, “theologians commonly maintain that the baptism of blood justifies adult martyrs independently of an act of charity or perfect contrition, and, as it were, ex opere operato, though, of course, they must have attrition for past sins. The reason is that if perfect charity, or contrition, were required in martyrdom, the distinction between the baptism of blood and the baptism of desire would be a useless one.”

The distinction between what Cyprian and Eugene teach us and the understanding expressed through the concept of “baptism of blood” might be easily missed, but there is one: a man who clings to the idea that his own version of Christianity is true can die in the name of Christ and not be saved, if he persists in schism, heresy, or error; but a man who is not Catholic who dies for Christ out of conviction that His Church is the True Church and membership in her is necessary for salvation can, like the good thief, find himself with Our Lord that very day in paradise.

If these issues of separation matter so much in life, death, and salvation, how then are we to deal with those of other faiths in our daily lives? Taking for granted that we must treat all of our fellow men with charity and love, how should we approach our separated brethren?

In his encyclical on Christian Unity, Mortalium AnimosPope Pius XI remarked on the growing trend and desire expressed by Catholics to pray in common with members of other Christian denominations for purposes on which they could agree, such as peace in the world. He writes:

It is clear that the Apostolic See cannot on any terms take part in their assemblies, nor is it anyway lawful for Catholics either to support or to work for such enterprises; for if they do so they will be giving countenance to a false Christianity, quite alien to the one Church of Christ. Shall We suffer, what would indeed be iniquitous, the truth, and a truth divinely revealed, to be made a subject for compromise? For here there is question of defending revealed truth.


Who then can conceive a Christian Federation, the members of which retain each his own opinions and private judgment, even in matters which concern the object of faith, even though they be repugnant to the opinions of the rest? And in what manner, We ask, can men who follow contrary opinions, belong to one and the same Federation of the faithful? For example, those who affirm, and those who deny that sacred Tradition is a true fount of divine Revelation; those who hold that an ecclesiastical hierarchy, made up of bishops, priests and ministers, has been divinely constituted, and those who assert that it has been brought in little by little in accordance with the conditions of the time; those who adore Christ really present in the Most Holy Eucharist through that marvelous conversion of the bread and wine, which is called transubstantiation, and those who affirm that Christ is present only by faith or by the signification and virtue of the Sacrament; those who in the Eucharist recognize the nature both of a sacrament and of a sacrifice, and those who say that it is nothing more than the memorial or commemoration of the Lord’s Supper; those who believe it to be good and useful to invoke by prayer the Saints reigning with Christ, especially Mary the Mother of God, and to venerate their images, and those who urge that such a veneration is not to be made use of, for it is contrary to the honor due to Jesus Christ, “the one mediator of God and men.” How so great a variety of opinions can make the way clear to effect the unity of the Church We know not; that unity can only arise from one teaching authority, one law of belief and one faith of Christians. But We do know that from this it is an easy step to the neglect of religion or indifferentism and to modernism, as they call it. (Emphasis added)

There are some who believe that the divisions between Christians and those of other faiths are simply man-made constructs, irrelevant in the pursuit of larger, mutual goals. That faith is from God, and religion — in its doctrine, dogma, liturgy, and rubrics — is made by man. These individuals, even those who call themselves Catholic, believe that the distinctions between those of the True Faith and those of other faiths — particularly other Christian sects — are mostly trivial, and that we can and should see ourselves as partaking of a shared journey toward heaven, during which we should be working and praying together, not evangelizing or “proselytizing”; not seeking, as some refer to our desire to convert others, an “ecumenism of return.”

But what of the “false Christianity” which Pope Pius warns we give rise to when we pray together with those who do not hold to the same eternal truths? What of the dogmatic proclamation of Pope Boniface that “it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff,” or the warning of Pope Eugene that “No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved unless they abide within the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church”?

What of the very scriptural teachings themselves, which tell us precisely what men need for salvation, and how we are to act if they reject instruction on these things, “going forth out of that house or city” to “shake off the dust from your feet”? (Mt. 10:14)

Ecumenism and interfaith dialogue make us feel good,  but they do not necessarily do good. Like parents afraid to discipline their children for fear they will be rejected, those who refuse the solemn duty to share their faith and its requirements with others think they’re being so much nicer to people by not telling them that they need to change. But in so doing, they fail to express the authentic love of souls that Christ exemplified, not only on the cross, but also when He offered “hard sayings” and did not back down when some turned away from them. He did not suffer and die so that all men, no matter what they believed and how they lived, could be saved. He offered a way – THE way, the truth, and the life. He did not establish many churches, but one Church. He did not say that “all roads lead to heaven,” but rather, that we should enter in “at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there are who go in thereat.” (Mt 7:13)

Even the apostles didn’t always like it. But as Peter said when Jesus pressed him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? Thou hast the words of eternal life.” (Jn. 6:69)

Love does not mean unconditional acceptance. It means desiring the good of another, even when they themselves have turned away from it. It means telling someone that they’re doing something that is hurting them, even when they don’t want to hear it. It means dying for the faith rather than compromising it. It means judging acts (but not souls) and offering fraternal correction, in order to help others to avoid eternal judgment.

The problem with our current approach to ecumenism and interfaith dialogue is that they amount to religious indifferentism, leaving us complacent in the idea that others are fine where they are, and can get to heaven through natural virtue and partial truth, but without conversion. Such thinking is tragically wrong, and inevitably stifles the zeal for souls that leads to evangelization.

Instead, we should faithfully carry out the the solemn duty of the Great Commission:

Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world. (Mt. 28:19-20)

31 thoughts on “Why We Can’t Be Indifferent to Indifferentism”

  1. Overall you are correct. There are situations, however, where we might be throwing pearls before swine. There is a passage in the Summa — I don’t have time at the moment to go looking — explaining that there are times when we ought not to try to convert someone. This principle can be abused, and surely would be by indifferentists if they cared enough about traditional theology to know about it, but it is worth noting for balance by right thinking Catholics. The principle is that sometimes people are made to hate the faith more by our attempts to evangelize them, and in this case, if we can reasonably predict it, we shouldn’t try.

    • Yes, I understand that there are prudential decisions involved in evangelization. This article was already pushing 3,000 words though, so I decided to stick to fundamental principles rather than situational questions.

    • It gets really tricky when talking to fallen away Catholics. They have already heard the message, attended mass, recieved the sacraments, and decided to not participate any more. Any attempt at evangilization is likely to be met with a, “Puuleez, I’ve already been there done that. You can’t tell me anything I don’t already know.” What do we say? They are not merely indifferent. Their prior experience has hardened them against the Church. It would almost be better if they were aproached by Jehovah’s Witnesses or Pentacostals. At least the heretics could get an open minded hearing.

  2. “It is true that we share our one baptism with other Christian denominations”

    Actually, no.

    Christ gave his 7 Holy Sacraments to His One True Church, the Holy Catholic Church as you correctly explained. He gives His graces and treasures through His True Church.

    Now, usurpers and inventors of false sects do take and use the Sacrament of Baptism on their own account, without Authority, as much as somebody lets say in Utah who declares himself to be independent of the USA starts issuing passports without authority.

    It is a Catholic Sacrament of Baptism that is being done (if the formula and intention are done correctly) and the sacramental effects are provided by Christ Himself from His Authority, straight to the souls involved (however misguided they may be). There is NO Baptism from the authority and validity of any false sect.

    So it is Catholic theology that all who receive a valid Baptism, are baptized into the Catholic Church, however, based on their attitude and disposition, they can fall into heresy and separate from the Catholic Church.
    That is why the Catholic Church accepts Baptisms done by Protestants and Orthodoxs, but require a Profession of Faith to return to the Catholic Church.
    Note that the Protestants do NOT look on Catholic baptisms in the same way. It depends on the opinion of the self-declared pastor of whichever of the 40,000 Protestant sects are out there.

    • Any young protestant who receives the trinitarian form of Baptism is baptised into the Catholic Church and he remains there until he reaches the age of discretion – say, seven years old –

      We hold it for certain that those baptized by heretics are separated from the Church and deprived of all the blessings enjoyed be her members, if they have arrived at the age of discretion and have adhered to the errors of their sect.

      Pope Benedict XV “Singulari nos” Feb 7, 1749

      • Correct. Because the Sacraments are given by Christ to His Holy Catholic Church, not withstanding what misguided souls do.

  3. “If anyone wills [to be made conformable to Christ]…
    He must be resolved to relinquish all things, to undertake anything, and to suffer everything for Jesus.
    Understand this, dear Friends of the Cross,
    should there be anyone among you who has not this firm resolve, he is just limping along on one foot, flying with one wing, and undeserving of your company, since he is not worthy to be called a Friend of the Cross, for we must love the Cross as Jesus Christ loved it ‘with a great heart and a willing mind’ (2 Mach. 1,3). That kind of half-hearted will is enough to spoil the whole flock, like a sheep with the scurvy. If any such one has slipped into your fold through the contaminated door of the world,
    then in the name of the crucified Christ, drive him out as you would a wolf from your sheepfold!”
    St. Louis De Montfort

  4. Another thoroughly-researched and clearly-presented article on a topic one can rarely find elsewhere, thank you!

    In considering “extra ecclesiam nulla salis” and the potential baptisms of desire and blood, I think a fascinating study would be to find any documentation of visits from Purgatory of souls of non-Catholics. I have read of some Protestants appearing and seeking prayers and Masses (ah!). This would seem to confirm the reality of these “secondary” baptisms; or how else might we explain this?

    God bless you and your work!

  5. Steve–Do you think Pope Francis would agree with you? My guess is that his answer would be ambiguous like much else of what he says.

    Since Vatican II evangelization has become problematic what with all the various ways of being Catholic. Many priests don’t follow the catechism. Awhile back I asked our local priest about what he tells couples wishing to be married in the Church but who are cohabiting. He said he tells them to stop cohabiting two weeks before marriage. And of course there’s contraception variations, etc.

    All of this does make it difficult to be enthusiastic about seeking converts. The question what exactly are the converting to?

  6. In the west we are living in a society that has already been evangelized for centuries. Converts are more likely to be ‘reverts’, people that have heard the message but for some reason rejected it. I am by no means indifferent to the need for evangelization, but without something new to give fallen away Catholics, I find myself saying, “I thought you heard this before?”

    • When a language is lost, the cultural nuances that set its speakers apart from other communities disappears. I am learning things that I should have been taught decades ago, things which my own mother has forgotten and neglected.

      Sometimes I ask lapsed Catholics to explain their reasons for leaving. And sometimes, I find myself agreeing, that they were right to leave that Catholic community which abused them so badly. The next challenge is to explain that the heretical but supportive christian community where they landed is still not Salvation!

      • That’s SO true! I want so badly to bring them to the truth but when I try to explain I just annoy them. At some level it cannot be articulated.

        • If they have been using a Protestant Bible, I ask them to look up the Canticle of Azariah, Daniel 3, and the Rape of Susanna, Daniel 13. I ask them why they suppose James Stuart and his committees deleted these passages.

          In a gentle round-about way, I explain that they should not throw out the baby Jesus with the Catholic bathwater. The Church carries the Truth. While we may not agree with the way people have treated us, they are not the whole of the Church. Jesus is.

          • Well said. You obviously have a gift for explaining these things. Unfortunately, I’m more likely to be dealing with people that are not even nominally Christian any more. They tend to be fallen away Catholics that never got a grounding in the bible in the first place and don’t feel the need to go to any Church.

          • Thanks! If they are still interested, we look at John 6, the “Hard Teachings” of Jesus. I refer atheists to the site Strange Notions. I get a lot of great ideas for Apologetics from them, IP5; Liturgy Guy: Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Holiness; Roman Catholic Man.

          • Thank you for the pointers. I’m going to check those sites out. With all that’s going on in the news and world right now it’s hard to remember that our job is to spread the Good News where we are.

  7. Well written and accurate piece, Mr. Skojec.

    The reality of life in this most execrable of ecclesiastical epochs is that one is a member of The One Holy Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church during a time when the preaching and praxis of the Prelature is to truth what NPR humor is to laughter.

    Jesus established His Catholic Church for two ends that are so simple and straightforward that even IANS can grasp them;



    All else, all the physical and spiritual works of mercy, all the Sacraments, the Mass,all the prayers, al the Liturgical hours, all the Religious Orders are secondary consequences of the two ends of the One Holy Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church and are means to those two ends.

  8. For me and I believe for every single soul that has “ears to hear” the first and most important reaction/response to this article should be to tremble in holy fear and immediately take up the habit of REPARATION. Many comments have reflected on how to intellectually approach others to evangelize and many have remarked that some have already heard the “message” and so…what to do now. I will tell you! Your own personal sanctification! You must press into God! You must try to receive Him daily! You must be free from mortal sin! God’s answer is amazing and He has all covered! Seek Him and Him only! Ask Him for an increase of faith, hope, and charity! These three increases will show you how daily to make reparation. In making reparation we literally take part in mercy through grace reaching many souls, especially our loved ones! Press in to GOD through the Sacraments. Stop looking around you. Stop wringing your hands. Get a spiritual director (confessor/priest)! I read this blog because it, so far, has been a help to my zeal of Love of God from which all else flows. Simplify your lives, quickly! Guard your minds and hearts. Become VERY focused on JESUS in the Blessed Sacrament. Seek humility and OBEDIENCE. God resists the proud, but is attracted to the humble. FIRST love GOD with your whole heart and then your neighbor…not the other way around. So many who are professing the “truth” are not praying and practicing reparation. They are only seeking St. Thomas (I love St. Thomas!) and are attracted to the beautiful intellectual attributes. NO…even St. Thomas would tell you that you have fallen short! All conversion is effected by suffering! Understand this! If someone hears the TRUTH and moves toward the TRUTH, it is only because of Christ’s Passion and His followers who are united to His PASSION! God has truly given us a way and it is beautifully demonstrated in St. Faustina’s diary. Mercy ALWAYS comes with a cost! If we understood that Mercy comes with a cost we will understand the torment in proportion to the rejection of it! This should set our hearts on fire to steep our loved ones and enemies in the Sacred Heart of Jesus daily, especially at Mass! So, I’m saying…there is ONE answer! Our own sanctification and believe me…it does not look like what many imagine. Our hearts need to be set on fire. Steve Skojec…I hope to see you also plea to the members of the Holy Catholic Church to take up the means for true evangelization. This article shows wonderfully why we need to evangelize. NOW…I say turn away from the modern way of evangelization and get back to what the saints have instructed us to do! Every word, oral and written is a waste of breath and will be called to accountability that is NOT bathed first in love of God. Notice, I did not say our love for God (that is subjective)…but LOVE OF GOD. Seek your sanctification in the Church! Make use of the treasury of the church which so much suffering was offered so as to provide the riches in the treasury (need blogs on this! Our pastors have not told us about this gold mine!). Through your own sanctification (loving God with your WHOLE heart, mind, strength, etc.) and learning to love and hunger for God’s Holy Will, which without you can’t be saved…you will most beautifully participate in mankind and creation’s redemption (most definitely those you love dearly, too). If we truly have charity in our hearts we will do this. BTW…I use the pronoun “you” in the general audience sense. I am aware I became “preachy”. My heart burns with this understanding because of my own “journey” and my own sanctification. NOTHING matters except this. The rest is built on loving God with our whole heart, which always leads to a life of reparation and uniting to Christ’s Passion (talking about evangelization here). I would like to see, everywhere a great piece, such as this one, include the prerequisite to conversion for our loved ones and the entire world. So many are under the influence of their intellect only….it feels good, it fits, it exercises it. This is good! BUT…it is NOT enough. Our memory and will must be offered to God. Thank you for your writing Steve Skojec. I have shared it many places. I am burning with the understanding that we are where we are, due to lack of reparation made by those made worthy by Christ. No amount of agreement to the Faith is going to change things. But, all can be used to bring in souls (including our own) if we are mostly about our own sanctification by loving God with our whole heart, not subjectively, but by the means of the Sacraments, Treasury of the Church and merits of all the Saints (Especially our Blessed Mother)…allowing and in fact…hungering to be made one with Christ, especially through His Passion. When His Bride starts to look like Him…the world will be converted.

  9. The Church as an institution seems to have strayed from the teachings of Christ; sadly The Pope persistently and continually sounds like a ‘false teacher’ of which the Bible warns.

  10. Outstanding article. I will have to delve into it a second time.
    Sadly, this spirit is lacking in the Catholic Church. We no longer seek the conversion of non-Catholics. That is the modern ecumenical ethos.

  11. Beautiful quotation by the author Steve Skojec:

    “Love does not mean unconditional acceptance.

    “It means desiring the good of another, even when they themselves have turned away from it.

    “It means telling someone that they’re doing something that is hurting them, even when they don’t want to hear it.

    “It means dying for the faith rather than compromising it.

    “It means judging acts (but not souls) and offering fraternal correction, in order to help others to avoid eternal judgment.

    “The problem with our current approach to ecumenism and interfaith dialogue is that they amount to religious indifferentism, leaving us complacent in the idea that others are fine where they are, and can get to heaven through natural virtue and partial truth, but without conversion. Such thinking is tragically wrong…”

    Well said, and may God bless and protect you and your loved ones.


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