On Friday, I commented on a story about Cardinal Reinhardt Marx, one of the closest advisers to Pope Francis, head of the German bishops’ conference, and a presenter on Amoris Laeitia. Last week, Marx made waves in Dublin with a speech in which he said:
“The history of homosexuals in our societies is very bad because we’ve done a lot to marginalise [them].”
As church and society “we’ve also to say ‘sorry, sorry’ ”.
[…]
Until “very recently”, the church, but also society at large, had been “very negative about gay people . . . it was the whole society. It was a scandal and terrible,” he told The Irish Times after speaking at a conference held in Trinity College.
At the time, and after elaborating on the cardinal’s favored status in the current pontificate, I said:
In these examples, we see the profile of a man empowered. A friend and trusted confidante of the pope, a leader of his peers, a revolutionary who has united himself to the greater cause. A man in a position of such prominence must be very careful not to embarrass the boss, so to speak. He carries not just the weight of his own positions, but those of the very Vicar of Christ who has brought him into his inner circle. Which is why his comments this week in Dublin can’t be taken as merely his own opinion…
[…]
I can say to you with absolute moral certitude that as outrageous as they are, Pope Francis will not correct Cardinal Marx on any of these points. Francis has no qualms — none whatsoever — about being closely associated with a man who thinks this way. One can only surmise that this is because he unequivocally agrees with him.
I didn’t expect to be proven right so quickly.
Yesterday, during yet-another of his infamous plane-pressers on the return trip from Armenia, Pope Francis fielded questions on various topics ranging from his unpopular mention of the Armenian Genocide to the European consequences of Brexit to the debate over whether there are two popes to his thoughts on Martin Luther (these last demand attention as well, but will be the subject of a later post.) And then, when presented with a question about Cardinal Marx’ Dublin comments, Francis not only did not shy away from them, he in fact doubled down on his “Who am I to judge” comment from 2013 — the comment that in many ways set the tone for the papacy, and caused such grave consternation among Catholics. A comment that even led to him being featured as a poster boy for an alleged reconciliation between the Church and radical homosexual ideology.
Among the questions the pope fielded from journalists was the following, from Catholic News Agency’s Cindy Wooden:
Cindy Wooden, CNS: Holiness, within the past few days Cardinal Marx, the German, speaking at a large conference in Dublin which is very important on the Church in the modern world, said that the Catholic Church must ask forgiveness to the gay community for having marginalized these people. In the days following the shooting in Orlando, many have said that the Christian community had something to do with this hate toward these people. What do you think?
Francis’ response was unhesitating (my emphasis added):
Pope Francis: I will repeat what I said on my first trip. I repeat what the Catechism of the Catholic Church says: that they must not be discriminated against, that they must be respected and accompanied pastorally. One can condemn, but not for theological reasons, but for reasons of political behavior…Certain manifestations are a bit too offensive for others, no? … But these are things that have nothing to do with the problem. The problem is a person that has a condition, that has good will and who seeks God, who are we to judge? And we must accompany them well…this is what the catechism says, a clear catechism. Then there are traditions in some countries, in some cultures that have a different mentality on this problem. I think that the Church must not only ask forgiveness – like that “Marxist Cardinal” said (laughs) – must not only ask forgiveness to the gay person who is offended. But she must ask forgiveness to the poor too, to women who are exploited, to children who are exploited for labor. She must ask forgiveness for having blessed so many weapons. The Church must ask forgiveness for not behaving many times – when I say the Church, I mean Christians! The Church is holy, we are sinners! – Christians must ask forgiveness for having not accompanied so many choices, so many families…I remember from my childhood the culture in Buenos Aires, the closed Catholic culture. I go over there, eh! A divorced family couldn’t enter the house, and I’m speaking of 80 years ago. The culture has changed, thanks be to God. Christians must ask forgiveness for many things, not just these. Forgiveness, not just apologies. Forgive, Lord. It’s a word that many times we forget. Now I’m a pastor and I’m giving a sermon. No, this is true, many times. Many times … but the priest who is a master and not a father, the priest who beats and not the priest who embraces, forgives and consoles. But there are many. There are many hospital chaplains, prison chaplains, many saints. But these ones aren’t seen. Because holiness is modest, it’s hidden. Instead it’s a little bit of blatant shamelessness, it’s blatant and you see so many organizations of good people and people who aren’t as good and people who … because you give a purse that’s a little big and look at you from the other side like the international powers with three genocides. We Christians – priests, bishops – we have done this. But also we Christians have Teresa of Calcutta and many Teresa of Calcuttas. We have many servants in Africa, many laity, many holy marriages. The wheat and the weeds. And so Jesus says that the Kingdom … we must not be scandalized for being like this. We must pray so that the Lord makes these weeds end and there is more grain. But this is the life of the Church. We can’t put limits. All of us are saints, because all of us have the Holy Spirit. But we are all sinners, me first of all! Alright. I don’t know if I have replied.
Here’s a video of the exchange (courtesy of Ed Pentin), because tone and facial expressions always convey more, in these interviews, than bare transcripts do:
Amidst that super-sized word salad are some key points, among them a reiteration of what Marx stated, and a reinforcement (rather than a corrective clarification) of Francis’ own controversial stance on this issue. Francis asserts that “One can condemn, [homosexual people/behaviors] but not for theological reasons…” Of course, this is absolutely false. Not only can we condemn sodomy, we must if we wish to exercise an authentic pastoral care and concern for souls. It is never an act of love to confirm people in their sin. An understanding the theological implications of sodomy — and in particular, why it is so offensive to God — is an important part of any effective approach to evangelization on this issue.
Going further, Francis insisted that the Church must “ask forgiveness to the gay person who is offended.” Not just to apologize, he made emphatically clear, but to seek pardon.
Forgiveness for what, exactly, Your Holiness? For keeping Genesis 19, Leviticus 18:22-28, and Leviticus 20:13 in the Catholic Bible? Or for that matter, for including in the canon of the New Testament the passages of Romans 1:26–27, 1 Corinthians 6:9–10, Galatians 5:19-21, 1 Timothy 1:9–10, and Jude 1:7? For classing sodomy as one of the four sins that cry out to heaven for vengeance? For consistently preaching that those who engage in sodomy should repent, so that they do not lose their eternal souls? For loving those who suffer from temptations to sodomy enough to call them to conversion?
St. Peter Damian, known for his Book of Gomorrah — an attempt to address widespread sexual perversion among the Catholics of his day — wrote a letter to Pope Nicholas II on the topic in 1059. Damian was unquestionably a man who loved souls and desired their conversion and repentance, but he made no bones about the obligation of those in positions of spiritual leadership as regards such sins. In direct contrast to the question, “Who am I to judge?” — which Francis has now publicly asked twice — St. Peter writes:
Clearly, just as those who punish faults are worthy of blessing, so those who coddle sinners are subject to a curse, as the prophet says: “Cursed be he that withholdeth his sword from blood.” Indeed, he who withholds his sword from blood is he who restrains himself from imposing the punishment of a proper sentence against evildoers. “Those who fail to correct are themselves guilty of the act.” If, therefore, Eli, only because of two sons whom he did not correct with a proper punishment, perished together with them and with such a great multitude of men, of what sentence do we think them to be worthy who preside in the palaces of the Church and in the seats of judgement, and who are silent in the face of the known offenses of depraved men?
The conflict here is undeniable. And only the latter approach is actually compatible with the explicit and longstanding teaching and practice of the Church.
It is worth noting that in an unrelated comment — part of an answer to journalist Edward Pentin’s question about how Brexit will affect Europe — the pope revealed a key to understanding his approach to Church governance. He said:
One recreates continuously. It is this that gives life, the desire to live, and gives fruitfulness.
Isn’t this a perfect description of his entire papacy? No stone left unturned. No doctrine left unmolested. Every novelty found desirable imposed. If you’ve been reaching for your Dramamine ever since March of 2013, you’re not alone. The pace of change has been dizzying, and relentless.
In another answer — a response to the Turkish government’s displeasure with the pope’s use of the term “genocide” in response to the early 20th-century Ottoman slaughter of 1.5 million Armenians — Francis appears to speak about a recall of the Turkish ambassador from the Vatican several months ago:
“He has the right…” the pope said, “The right to protest, we all have it.”
If he truly believes this, then he should not be troubled by our own protest at his remarks.
His acquiescence to supremacist homosexual ideology is unspeakably damaging to the Church. It especially hurts those who, like Joseph Sciambra, are trying to reach out to and evangelize those still trapped in a lifestyle that is destroying them body and soul. I asked Joseph in my last podcast (go to 48:48 in the timeline to hear the audio) about the impact of the original “Who am I to judge” statement from Pope Francis in the gay world:
Joseph: That certain message is in the gay community at large. Has it converted anybody over to Catholicism thinking that Catholicism’s become liberal? No, absolutely not. No, what it has is fed into a certain narrative, going back, Steve, where I was talking about these sort of toxic parishes, where you have gay affirmative…? It’s fed into that whole narrative. And I see it. Because I see the statements that they put out and I go to their meetings sometimes and their talks, and the narrative that they have is that the Church is changing. That the Church is just gonna reverse itself on all of these issues — gay marriage, all of it — this is what they honestly and earnestly believe. Because — and I’m not, again, I’m not blaming the guys in the pews — but this what they’ve been fed by…and you know what? When I came to the Church I could have moved into that direction, too, I don’t know. But just through the grace of God, and I met a good priest, I didn’t. But, um, you know that’s where it’s become a problem, is in these gay-friendly, gay-affirmative parishes, where all…where those sort of buzz words and things have…have caused a problem.
Steve: Do you think there’s more of that kind of thing happening maybe in more parishes now because people who were a little bit more hidden about it are now feeling more empowered?
Joseph: Oh yes. Oh yes. Because I can tell you that when Cardinal Ratzinger was pope, uh, they hated him. Hate. Hate, Hate, Hate. …it was just…
Steve: (inaudible)
Joseph: yes…it was very palpable. Because he…they’d hate him because he put that whole disorder thing into the, the Church lexicon. And, um, when Francis came in it was a different…you know, whether their new belief in him was founded on, you know, on fact or fiction…but, you know, they believe that the old mean, you know, bigoted pope was out, and, you know, a new, you know, fresh, forward one was in. So. But this is…this has wrought, and my point is this has wrought disunity in the Church.
Steve: Yeah.
Joseph: And it’s very sad, because you have gay men and women who don’t know what to do. And it’s very off-putting. I could tell you, I don’t know if I would have come back to the Church if I, when leaving gay, knew this bizarre, you know, miasma was going on in the Church. Because it’s been very difficult to maneuver, and again, only through the grace of God have I been able to do it. But it’s very off-putting to people on the outside. It’s very difficult to overcome. Because I talk to these people in the gay community, and they don’t particularly like the Catholic Church for several reasons, and one of them is because it’s wildly inconsistent on this issue.
In a Facebook post yesterday, Joseph talked about his outreach at the San Francisco “Gay Pride” event yesterday — the largest such gathering in the world. (Pope Francis made his remarks during “Gay Pride Month,” on the anniversary of the legalization of “same-sex marriage” in the United States.) He spoke again of of the challenge he faced trying to reach people to bring them back into the Church:
[S]orry to say-but Catholicism (as it stands right now on the gay issue) is not particularly attractive – just today, it’s all conflicted and confused; to be honest, I can totally see how I threw myself into gay all those years ago after coming out of the post-conciliar happy Church of the 70s – now, I watch it happening all over again.
Today, I did not hear ONE single gay man who was raised Catholic tell me that he left the Church because the Church was too STRICT – it was because the Church was about as relevant as Madonna’s last few albums. Catholicism – be counter-cultural and you will be noticed.
The more the Church tries to be “pastoral” and “accompany” gay men – the more the Church will accompany gay men right into the gay community – we do not need apologies – we need the Truth and we need strength; after all – we are men.
The message is clear, from St. Peter Damian to men like Joseph Sciambra who have dedicated their lives to trying to save souls in the “gay community”: we cannot simply say nothing, or apologize for what we believe. When faced with any sin — but particularly those that do such grave damage to the soul and create a darkness that is hard to escape from — we must challenge the sinner to abandon the path that they are on, a path to death and destruction, and to embrace Christ’s life-giving love.
We must never apologize for that. To do so is a betrayal of the Great Commission.
I dunno Steve, Ann is looking more right every day that goes by.
And what does she do when B16 is dead and Francis is still alive? Will she become a Sedevacantist or accept Francis as a valid Pope?
Well, she accepts Benedict XVI as pope and he was partially responsible for the heretical document on Catholic-Lutheran Justification, so, she really is constrained to go back farther in time if she is to be intellectually coherent
What was wrong with JDJ?
Ann’s assertion isn’t based on Bergoglio’s heresies or errors. It’s based on his election. On that basis, there’s nothing intellectually incoherent about accepting Benedict’s papacy and not Bergoglio’s.
But the question about what she does when Benedict XVI dies is an interesting one.
Dear Dusty. Ok, thanks for the correction. IANS was, once again, too glib and hasty
It just gets worse by the DAY. Seriously, I question myself: ‘Does this man really not KNOW the Catholic faith that he calls his own?’
If only we could blame it on ignorance. Sadly, it is appearing much darker than that.
Apologize for what? For not affirming a group of people who insist on defining themselves by their sin, who blatantly flaunt their sin and demand we deem it “good?” The mind boggles! I’m also tired of the mantra, “we’re ALL sinners… we can’t judge” Yes, we are- the difference is, Catholics with healthy consciences actually feel sorrow for their sins, confess, repent, and vow to sin no more. Those practicing homosexuality want the Church to conform to their desires instead of dying to themselves and resisting temptation in the effort to live a chaste life. Something that is required of heterosexuals too, don’t you know! Again, the difference is, homosexuals feel their particular brand of fornication is so special, they deserve a pass. Not just a pass, but a celebration! I’m so weary of this, of people who cannot grasp basic Catholic teaching, but suddenly become finger-wagging theologians when someone disagrees with them.
Not to make light of the spiritual filth that these people wallow in, but on a PHYSICAL level ALONE they are abusing their bodies. The average life expectancy for an ‘active’ homosexual is shortened by about 30 years. Average expectancy is early 50’s, I don’t have the links (several) off hand but I can dig them up if need be. Very unhealthy people.
I was thinking today… the government wants to micromanage every bit of food we put into our mouths for our own good- but celebrate anything and everything “gay!”
A very shocking thing: I’m a nurse, and I have been offered seminars on how not to be offended when lesbians want to smoke a lot. WHAT?! Is that not the cardinal sin of the century? I MUST nag other smokers about their ‘horrible’ habit. I’m supposed to be ‘therapeutic’ to lesbians about smoking, but not about a lifestyle that brings certain early death. Is there any thought to this process?
“Isn’t this a perfect description of his entire papacy? ….. No doctrine left unmolested.” A masterful description.
If you speak Truth out of care for souls, you are to blame for Islamic Jihad and marginalizing “gays”.
If you speak Truth out of care for souls, you need to apologize and beg forgiveness.
If you speak Truth out of care for souls, you are the weeds.
“The culture has changed, thanks be to God.”
https://nonvenipacem.com/2016/06/27/pope-francis-blames-christians-for-islamic-jihad/
The Church can never conform its teaching to the whims of anyone. People who are truly seeking God want Truth and when they hear it, they will turn their sheepish heads and listen. When we hear someone speak the Truth, we get rattled and become angry because deep down in our little souls we want the Truth, but that means we must forsake our sin. The saddest and most damaging part about Papa Francisco’s papacy is that he is – wittingly or unwittingly – conjuring up the fear within many that the Church is a bunch of hokum; that She isn’t True and that the whole Catholic thing has just been one big lie. The next step is to doubt the reality of the Incarnate God and veracity of His Words, Passion and Resurrection. Next stop is a lawless world and despair.
Yikes!! What a rambling. One could hardly understand half of what Francis was attempting to say. Francis….”.if a man is gay and has good will as you say, and is seeking God,” ( in other words if he is truly sincere ) then he will take the path of Joseph Sciambra. But this is not what the gay community wants. They want to continue in their sin and be told that all is well. I think you KNOW that. Why are you are abandoning your papal responsibilities in denying the truth?
St. Peter Damian please come to our aid. St. Cyril of Alexandria help us.
Francis…you say…. carry on…all is well. If you live together as a couple and are not married… carry on….all is well….it is sacramental. You give so many I the world permission to sin. Woe to you .
“Who am I to judge”
Vatican 1
Chapter 2. On the permanence of the primacy of blessed Peter in the Roman pontiffs
That which our lord Jesus Christ, the prince of shepherds and great shepherd of the sheep, established in the blessed apostle Peter, for the continual salvation and permanent benefit of the church, must of necessity remain for ever, by Christ’s authority, in the church which, founded as it is upon a rock, will stand firm until the end of time [45] .
For no one can be in doubt, indeed it was known in every age that the holy and most blessed Peter, prince and head of the apostles, the pillar of faith and the foundation of the catholic church, received the keys of the kingdom from our lord Jesus Christ, the saviour and redeemer of the human race, and that to this day and for ever he lives and presides and exercises judgment in his successors the bishops of the holy Roman see, which he founded and consecrated
IANS considers his question a tacit admission he knows he is aught but the putative pope.
O, and it will get worse. Just wait until the indifferent performance awaiting us all in Lund, Sweden in October as Bergoglio celebrates the protestant revolution.
Yep, well……………the torture and death of Our Lord Jesus was no picnic, so why are His true followers expecting less? Pick up your CROSS He tells us……and some may even be nailed to one. I think we need to prepare for real persecution in the not too distant future. We have broken hearts now……….we may even suffer broken bodies to match. I PRAY for the GRACE.
But………..in the end there will be GLORY!!! Such as eyes have never seen or hearts have never felt!!!!
Dear Standstill. Amen.
But, let’s not overlook that Jesus desired the cup pass Him by and He asked those who struck, Him, why?
Seeing as how we are all to imitate Jesus, it is not wrong to ask why the putative shepherd is striking we laymen.
O, and breathes there a genuine trad who has not thought it would be great to be martyred (while at the same time bearing fear in his soul at the prospect) and have the wounds shining in glory all throughout eternity?
IANS is smack dab in a covey of quail who love to grouse.
Dear Steve, FAR worse is his defense of The Heresiarch – described by the then Pope as a Wild Boar and heretically claiming we Catholics and Lutherans have there same doctrine on Justification.
That claim is flat out heresy. Period!!!!
That will take a bit more time. I wanted this one out of the way because it connects directly to Marx, and got the biggest gasps yesterday.
The Lutheran stinker has always been the show-stealer of 2016.
Dear Steve. Sorry IANS jumped the gun and stole a bit of your thunder.
When you do get to it, come out with guns blazing….
No worries. It’d be crazy not to mention it. I put it in parenthesis and moved on with the post, but it deserves discussion.
I’ve done a little background research on the whole Lutheran issue, collected here: http://bit.ly/1BHhhV0
One thing to note: The attempt to introduce the doctrines of Luther into the Church has been going strong – on official channels – since before the end of Vatican II.
IANS,
Good catch. Holy cow, I can’t believe I’m reading this (from the transcript, emphasis added):
I’m with you, IANS. How is this not heresy? Will any bishops or cardinals come out and denounce this? Will any in the media actually report this?
How can a pope—any pope—actually get away with saying this?!
The Papal Preacher, inside saint Peter’s on Good Friday, ambled up to the ambo and them sermonised about how Luther rescued the true faith and how rescued Christian preaching
Ecumenism is the Universal Solvent of Tradition
http://en.radiovaticana.va/news/2016/03/25/cantalamessa_homily_for_good_friday/1218007
The Shadow Church has no substance and it is in rupture with the past and it teaches in opposition to Catholic Dogma and Doctrine and Jorge Bergoglio is the chosen one of these in the conclave because he says what they believe
“How is this not heresy?”
And what does it take? When does the magic line get crossed, and we can finally say that we’re in formal heresy territory?
Or was the line crossed long ago, but no one has the guts to say so?
MORE HERESY:
“I’ve seen a lot of fidelity in these cohabitations, [living in sin] and I am sure that this is a real marriage, they have the grace of a real marriage because of their fidelity.” – Pope Francis
VERSUS
THE BIBLE AND JPII:
“Know you not that the unjust shall not possess the kingdom of God? Do not err: neither fornicators [including monogamous fornicators], nor idolaters, nor adulterers, Nor the effeminate, nor liers with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor railers, nor extortioners, shall possess the kingdom of God.”
– 1 Corinthians 6: 9-10
In Pope John Paul II’s Familiaris Consortio, John Paul II reveals the harm of cohabitation [living in sin]. The different factors leading to situations of cohabitation, he says: “…presents the Church with arduous pastoral problems, by reason of the serious consequences deriving from them, both religious and moral (the loss of the religious sense of marriage seen in the light of the Covenant of God with His people; deprivation of the grace of the sacrament; grave scandal), and also social consequences (the destruction of the concept of the family; the weakening of the sense of fidelity, also towards society; possible psychological damage to the children; the strengthening of selfishness).” (No. 81)
We definitely have something else with Pope Francis.
Haven’t you noticed? Rebutting clerics move very slowly….
It is very simple, the pope has just handed over his flock to persecution. Sound familiar? The chief priests handed the LORD over, and now, the chief priests hand his Body, the Church, over.
True insight!
The PF Catechism:
– I’m OK. You’re OK. Eh?
– Let’s get some pizza
– Never be a comfrobulated gesticulation seeking only to leverage disentered spaces of accompaniment. No! Only forward!
– And don’t be like those guys. They are bad.
– Sorry for _______
– Jesus is sorry for dying on the Cross for your sins. He didn’t mean to point that out. It was more like “Hey, God was trying to trick you”, and maybe Jesus was just a little disappointed in you.
– Hell is full of air-conditioners and neo-freon compressing theologians who doctor the law.
– We are all cousins of God, because the word brother does not appear in the original Jewish textus receptus.
Final meditation: Catholics (not Protestants) should apologize to Jesus, since it was the early Christians who killed Jesus. If you do this, we will accompany each other on your journey on our knees facing the Lord ad orientem. No?
Amen
Oh, man, I’m dying. I’m dead. This is the funniest thing in forever.
There is a little protestant joke in there, for reverts like myself.
Hilarious !
BTW: Pray for the Pope
No, I’m sick of him. I pray for good Cardinals & Bishops who stand for Christ & give the true leadership of their calling e.g. Cardinal Cañizares & Bishop Schneider. Obviously they would be considered cruel, heartless, discriminating.etc. by PF. The others whose wrists were broken at the Synod on the Family for writing ‘that’ letter have been marginalised – something that the Pope wouldn’t do to Sodomites.
Any chance he might be the False Prophet?
You MUST pray for the Pope! We’re all sick of him but his soul is in mortal danger.
All our souls are in mortal danger due to his heresies. One soul against over a billion? We don’t even know for sure PF is a real pope. What about the dual papacy? PB still is wearing his white cassock & living in the Vatican.
Brothers in arms: Unprecedented moment two Popes embrace as Benedict thanks Francis for his ‘mercy-filled’ reign
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3663733/Francis-honors-Benedict-says-retirement-Franciscan.html#ixzz4Ctjz0vWn
The CC leadership is shaming all of us every day as we lurch from one crisis to another. Canon Law must provide an urgent answer. The silence of the CDF is no longer acceptable. Do they really expect us to put up and shut up until both these men die? Praising Luther, Apologising (in all our names) to the LGBT Community, Holy Communion for everyone, not now necessary to confess sin (it apparently no longer exists) & continually sneering at Traditional Catholics has GOT to stop.
I pray several times a day that this man will be removed by God from the Seat of Peter & the Vatican exorcised well before the Lund Commemorations travesty takes place.
Agreed. That’s exactly why we must pray for him.
Yes! Not no!
He needs prayers more than anyone and that is your Catholic duty, Ana! Even if you are (and rightly so) sick of him.
Yes, especially since the God of surprises has opened new possibilities to concrete situations that did not exist where time was greater than space. Until now.
False prophet or not we MUST pray for the Pope.
Jesus said pray for your enemies.
I’m leaving him in God’s hands.
Any chance he might be the False Prophet?
*
If not, definitely a strong candidate. My thinking is he is [cf. https://thewarourtime.com/2016/01/29/the-apocalyptic-beasts/%5D.
Of course! And I’m praying he’s put on a ‘no fly’ list.
and a muzzle put on his mouth.
Of course. For his conversion or removal.
Well, I’m certainly inspired! Not sure to do what… maybe wander a peace labyrinth and think about air quality for the poor….
-” Jesus is sorry for dying on the Cross for your sins. He didn’t mean to
point that out. It was more like “Hey, God was trying to trick you”,
and maybe Jesus was just a little disappointed in you”
You overlooked adding that the Crucifixion was really a homocentric party that got out of control
This Pope is incredibly frustrating to me and my wife, who have only recently discovered the ancient truths of the Church into which we were born. It turns out our own Guarantor hints they are all up for debate. Francis nearly every day deflates our euphoria with a thousand needle pricks.
Luckily, he doesn’t get to decide what Catholicism is any more than the President of the United States gets to repeal gravity.
We do return to that thought for comfort. We must have had a hundred mischievous Popes – though of course now every comment is publicized.
I know, it’s really tough to ignore, but what we TRY to do is practice our TRUE faith and don’t pay any attention to his insane ramblings. He’s NOT proclaiming true Catholicism!
Why doesn’t the pope just make big bonfire and burn the damn catechism in the public square?
I kind of wish he would. I mean, transparency is the key to success in the 21st century.
That’s too obvious. We see the method of diabolical ambiguity since that sells better, as Bishop Forte admitted some weeks ago.
That’s the main event at the Theological Group Grope to take place in Lund on October 31 between Bergoglio and whatever lesbian “bishop” the Lutherans trot out.
This god of surprises loves airplanes for inspirations. Must be the altitude.
Can anyone tell me where Víctor Manuel Fernández might be? Oh that’s right the Bishop of Rome’s ghostwriter extraordinaire is probably re-writing and editing the Catechism for its latest edition. Perhaps an update by 2017? Stay tuned & pray
( lol ) The evil air turbulence ( caused by the climate change ) rattled Hiss Holiness’ brain .
You would think he would be a little afraid…like I dunno maybe a lightening bolt hitting a huge flying object with some of the words being spoken??
I hope they serve peanuts on the flights because its definitely Peanut Gallery time on Airitalia
Like the day Pope Benedict resigned???
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/lightning-bolt-hit-vatican-not-1705156
I plan to buy extras of the CCC before it gets changed.
WYD in Poland is coming up right? If the Pope would be attending (and
riding a plane), perhaps a novena for hopeless cases would be in order.
Pope Francis : ” The culture has changed, thanks be to God .” What a great gift from God ! Hmm…for some reason, I don’t really feel like celebrating. According to our bizarre Pope & his Quantum Catholicism, I am a saint & a sinner. I can be in hell & in Heaven at the same time. WoW ! Now I know why I earn double air miles every time I buy groceries.
Took a tour of other Catholic sites to see what they had to say. Not much as yet, and the little that is there is journalistic whistling past the graveyard. Disheartening.
I think they ignore as much as possible, for the sake of ……..you know…………UNITY.
Why am I not surprised?
Here is a quote from one (shall remain anon.) “Another papal trip, another in-flight interview, another crop of sensational headlines. But what Pope Francis said– while provocative enough!– is not quite what the headlines suggest. Please read our coverage for a balanced perspective.”
Well, I read the coverage and it didn’t make me feel a damned bit more assured (it dealt only with his comments concerning homosexuality). I still found there the gratuitous papal assumption of untoward conduct on the part of Christians towards homosexuals, and the stricture to apologize for said assumed untoward conduct.
I’ve noticed this kind of grating attitude in US liberals for decades. Neither they (nor the pope evidently) seem to grasp how sanctimonious (no pun int) and rebarbative it is. When they condemn, for example, White racism, you just know that the subliminal message is it’s something THEY would never dream of indulging, but you….?
The Catholic Thing has been spot on on this topic, Francis Fatigue, as well as the panel on EWTN. I have to say I’ve been pleasantly surprised with EWTN; months ago I didn’t think they would talk about it so openly.
Happy to hear it. Unfortunately, I don’t have television. It’s past time Catholics discussed this seriously among themselves. Why should honest talk about a pope (or bishop) be hushed as if we were dealing with venereal disease in the family?
Here’s the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8_VBW0a6ow
TCT article, Francis Fatigue: https://www.thecatholicthing.org/2016/06/27/francis-fatigue/
These aren’t traditional Catholic outlets, and yet even they think the statements are problematic.
Thanks, DD, for sending these along. Very interesting and informative. I especially like the video. Interesting that Fr Murray listened to the tape of the papal speech in Italian and discovered the papal news agency LIED (only proper word) when it said Francis didn’t call priests “animals.” Shades of the Clintons!
Stuffy First Things is beginning to see the light – I think Reno always has. And there’s Ross Douthat at the New York Times of all places. Actually I’ve run into a lot of articles and comments that lead me to believe that the Francis fan club outside the subscription list of America, NCR and Commonweal is shrinking pretty fast among Catholics. Or maybe I just want to think so.
Recently, I took a transatlantic flight. Do you want to know what I did? I watched two movies, prayed through the Office at different points of the flight, prayed a Rosary or two, listened to music, took a nap, and ate whatever they threw in front of me.
You know why?
Because I have “the smell of the sheep.” That is what most normal people do on a flight.
Can’t someone just start mixing some NyQuil into a drink, hand it to him, and pop Despicable Me or something into the DVD player on the next flight?
Sigh……………I vote for duck tape.
duck tapeduct tape*
Use edit to correct and I will delete this.
My dear ‘trying hard to be ex-homosexual’ friend told me many times before he died of AIDS, that these liberal do-gooders did them no favours when they left them in their sin. He said the clergy should speak out as often and as much as they can. He died in the Church, by the grace of God and the prayers of Our Lady.
Thank the dear Lord there are some that see the light before death. A real answer to prayer, no thanks to a good majority of our prelates, and unfortunately that includes the successor of Peter himself! Hard to even believe at times, but impossible to deny. Lord HAVE MERCY!!
Oh and see my post below on the life expectancy of active homosexuals……it’s not ONLY aids that they die from. Rectal cancers and other maladies.
He had AIDS, alcoholism and over the counter drug addiction. Bi-polar depression and peripheral neuropathy, too. He was a cheerful young man when I first met him. Please pray for the repose of his soul.
The Devil is having a field day. God help us…..pray, everyone, as you have never prayed before.
So God should apologize to the people of Sodom?
I think the Sodomites should apologize to God!
I’m hoping for him to mandate all homosexual priest predators to beg forgiveness from every parent they have ever betrayed when molesting their altar boy sons (or daughters). If we’re going to start having apologies, how about we start with THAT?
IN THE EAST
THERE
IS NO DAWN
In the east there is no dawn,
In the present dark clouds spawn.
The highest is the lowest pawn,
In the east there is no dawn.
In the east they feast on prawn,
Where have all the Princes gone?
Sipping Mate… Martha’s lawn,
In the east they feast on prawn.
In the east there is no brawn,
Over the delicate they do fawn,
Simple families they’ve pranced on,
In the east there is no brawn.
In the east there is no dawn,
In the present dark clouds spawn.
Gainst our enemy’s dripping chiffon
Weapons of words must now be drawn!
I will point out yet again that the pope fails to complete his thoughts/comments and it is becoming apparent that it is intentional. For whose benefit, and for what purpose I will leave for others to decide.
However, are we as Christians suppose to deny people the right of life, living, in which employment, housing, healthcare, etc., are withheld from homosexuals because of what they do or who they are? I would say no, the dignity of each person regardless of state of sin is entitled to each of these. Lest there is a slippery slope in the opposite direction where no one could claim these necessities for themselves as we all fail and come up short.
Alternatively, the pope leaves out any discussion on the fact that the church does not recognize SSM, and sex before marriage regardless of orientation is considered a no no. Even self gratification is considered sinful. The mainline stand is sex only after marriage and for procreation or open to procreation. So what is he saying? What does he want? I don’t see catholic goon squads going after people causing harm and grief. What is he asking of us?
This pope with every encyclical, or whatever is stated officially, never speaks with a sense of how things should look, be implemented. He speaks great platitudes, but never gives examples as to what he means exactly. Is this to give hope to those with his words and yet placates those who hold to dogma/doctrine? He most definitely speaks out of both sides of his mouth which is a large issue and should not been a characteristic of a pope.
One thing for certain, I am not going to loose sleep over what he says, nor rejoice when there is something I find right since I do not truly know what he is speaking about, or what his vision really is regarding issues. Until he attempts to change something in the definite then I will pay attention and weigh what he has done.
As I have been saying, Pope Francis’ *remark* (theological parsing) on his plane ride home from Krakow (only days hence) will be a zinger. One to grind through the Google/Facebook news trending analytics)..
His words (however they falls from his loose cuffs) will be ever linked to the image of nearly a million Catholic youth assembled at his feet; that will only grind the calibrating wheels of Google & Facebook to assure the world that the Catholic Church has trended into the revolutionary age. Those young folks will be sent forth – in contrast to the old, tired one of John Pal II – as the “Pope Francis faithful”.
How many months will be it until Queer Theory finds its way into an revised Franciscan Catholic Catechism?
Too bad Krakow will be known as epic center and ground zero of *that* tweet.
______________________________________
Dear “John Paul II Faithful”,
What are you doing about it?
Sincerely, yours truly,
Little Ol’ Cadavera
There is already a French group titled BCCW which wants to modify the CCC regarding sodomy.
*
What an orthodox Catholic trying to be faithful to his LORD and his Church through the intercession of the Friends of God, the saints, like Pope St. John Paul II the Great is doing about it: Bishops: Be Brave before Pope Francis as Paul before Peter | Online Petitions
Arlington Diocese likes:
Ultimately, what happens when one “accepts” the ideas of the perverse is the complete renunciation of Christ our King. That is what satan wants all of us to do. That is what the “mark of the beast” is all about. To renounce what we truly are, above the beasts, and becoming, even if vicariously like unto the beasts.
“The more the Church tries to be “pastoral” and “accompany” gay men – the more the Church will accompany gay men right into the gay community – we do not need apologies – we need the Truth and we need strength; after all – we are men”.
Bullseye!
Literally the worst pope ever. There were other popes who were incredibly immoral in their personal conduct, but no pope has ever put so many souls in danger.
Yes! He has no filter, and no ‘off’ button!
Approval of sin (sodomy) and heresy (Luther and his “doctrine”). And the Catholic world is mostly asleep. I listened to a podcast of Fr. Larry Richards today and he blasted people for criticising the Pope last week. That would be regarding the mostly invalid marriages and cohabitation is marriage commentary. How blind can people be? Even Fr Murray and Robert Royal on Raymond Arroyo’s World Over said that such comments are serious problems. Pray pray pray and learn your faith so that you can tell lies from the truth. This ratcheting up of problems reminds me of these Emmerich prophecies:
April 12, 1820: “I had another vision of the great tribulation. It seems to me that a concession was demanded from the clergy which could not be granted. I saw many older priests, especially one, who wept bitterly. A few younger ones were also weeping. But others, and the lukewarm among them, readily did what was demanded. It was as if people were splitting into two camps…”
“March 22, 1820: I saw very clearly the errors the aberrations an the countless sins of men. I saw the folly and the wickedness of their actions, against all truth and all reason. Priests were among them, and I gladly endured my suffering so that they may return to a better mind.”
There is a saying that Truth does not hurt unless it OUGHT to.
If homosexuals are offended then it is because they no longer hold to the truth. Should we sacrifice the truth so that we may not give offence.
If something that is un-offensive gives offense, should we not look to the particular state of mind of the one offended and explain why it is not offensive to say what we say.
Should we validate sin and error just so no homosexual heart may be sent in to a flutter?
Steve
Not sure if I agree with your take on the “word salad.” I read through it very carefully and finally decided that it was not possible to decypher. Look, the Pope is an old man. I doubt any of us is in top form on an airplane – even if it’s a very cushy one. But, and I try to be generous, has anyone else on this forum considered the possibility that the Pope isn’t always completely in town upstairs? I know Jesuits are famous for intelligence, but when I look through my growing Francis archive I’m not altogether sure that the constant confusion left for Lombardi to clean up is always premeditated. His solidarity toward the Euro progressives that want Mother Church to follow the road the Anglicans paved into oblivion are genuine and profoundly sad. But I wonder if the guy isn’t a bit of a loon.
Yes, we must love the sinner but hate the sin. Pope Francis appears ti have a problem with this.
…like that “Marxist Cardinal” said (laughs)…
Ths is not just a simple joke. It reveals a lot!
It seems that card. Marx realy is a Marxist as he continuously fights for the right of supressed gay proletariat against dominating catholic bourgeoisie. Some of the main definitions:
alienation of labor = gay are alienated in catholic moral
social revolution = sexual revolution
production organized directly for use = do wath ever you want-when ever you want-with enyone
common ownership = sexuality is no longer a matter of marriage (regular of course)
Karl Marx wanted to create heaven on earth and failed – so will the present marxists
I think it is becoming more and more obvious. The sedes. are right!
Why are no Catholic outlets talking about the most disturbing thing he said?-Martin Luther did not err on justification?