Around three dozen faithful gathered for Mass this morning in the little church of St. Rita, located in the 15th arrondissement of Paris. The priest, vested in the traditional manner, celebrated ad orientem, assisted by an altar boy in a red cassock and white surplice.
Dominus vobiscum.
It was a scene with which all who attend the traditional Latin Mass are perfectly familiar – except, perhaps, for the fact that most of the parishioners were standing. They were standing because the pews had been removed in order to form a barricade at the entrance to the church. A group of police in riot gear and armed with truncheons and tear gas was outside preparing to storm the building. St. Rita has been slated for demolition since October 2015.
Et cum spiritu tuo.
As the police began ripping the pews away from the entrance, the faithful, arms locked, broke out in song. The priest continued reciting the ancient prayers. The altar boy remained at his side. A second priest led a small group kneeling beside the sanctuary in the recitation of the Rosary. Some of the faithful prepared handkerchiefs for covering their noses in the case that the police decided to put their canisters of tear gas to use.
Oremus.
As the police stormed the church, the faithful quickly retreated to the sanctuary, encircling the steps to the altar, using their bodies to protect the priest and the altar boy, who were still celebrating Holy Mass. One by one, they were forcefully torn away. The priest who had been praying the Rosary was thrown to the floor and dragged from the sanctuary and out of the church. Fr. Guillaume de Tanoüarn, still engrossed in the celebration of the Divine Liturgy, was pulled from the altar by his vestments and forced outside.
Orate fratres.
The dramatic events which unfolded this morning were made particularly shocking by the fact that less than 24 hours have passed since the funeral of Fr. Jacques Hamel, the priest martyred at the altar during Holy Mass by ISIS operatives in Rouen last week.
As with any developing story, verifying competing and partially contradictory claims is difficult. Here’s what we know with relative certainty:
St. Rita was built in the year 1900 under the direction of the Association of Chapels Catholic and Apostolic (L’association des Chapelles Catholiques et Apostoliques). In 1988, it was made available to Dominique Philippe, the self-designated “archbishop” of a so-called “Gallican” community. Something of a showman, Msgr. Philippe regularly made headlines in France and around the world for his holding annual blessings of pets and various animals – ranging from Cocker Spaniels to Camels – in St. Rita. But for all his Barnum & Baily-esque showmanship, Philippe was not able to attract enough financially supportive parishioners, and when the owners signaled that they wanted to sell the property, the Gallican community was unable to raise the funds to purchase it. Thus, in October 2015, they abandoned St. Rita and the building was slated to be demolished and the property converted into a parking lot. It was at this time that Fr. Guillaume de Tanoüarn, ordained in the Society of St. Pius X (SSPX) and co-founder of the Institute of the Good Shepherd (IBP), began offering the traditional Latin Mass to all who desired it.
It is important to note that the IBP, which offers the Tridentine form of the Roman Rite according to the 1962 Roman Missal, is in full communion with the Holy See and is growing rapidly in France: ten years after its founding in 2006, the number of priests in the IBP has grown to more than 30, and the Institute can boast of an equal number of seminarians. It is governed by the same regulations as more familiar Institutes and Fraternities dedicated to the preservation of Tradition, such as the Priestly Fraternity of Saint Peter (FSSP) and the Institute of Christ the King Sovereign Priest (ICKSP). Contrary to some reports, therefore, it appears that the parishioners who were forcibly evicted from St. Rita were not “Gallicans”, but rather Catholics in good standing with the Church.
While the manner in which the eviction took place is disturbing, what is even more worrisome is the way the evicted Catholics are being portrayed in certain sectors of the French media. One article describes the group as being composed of “fundamentalist militants” and St. Rita under the guidance of Fr. de Tanoüarn as offering safe haven to “the cream of the Parisian far-right” and catering to a combination of “traditionalist Catholic splinter groups and far-right pseudo-revolutionaries.” Various accusations are being leveled against the group, such as having strong ties to Action Française (AF), a right-wing political movement which was condemned during the reign of Pius XI in 1926, only to be rehabilitated by Pius XII in 1939. The modern AF is monarchist, anti-Communist, anti-European Union and pro-immigration reform. Given such a program, it should come as no surprise that the AF does, indeed, resonate with the younger generation of traditional Catholics.
https://youtu.be/ziWPsK3nwbk?t=25m23s?rel=0
Immediately after the raid, French Catholics took to various social media platforms to express their outrage, notable on Twitter with the hashtag #SainteRita. Marine Le Pen, leader of the National Front Party, blasted:
Et si l’on faisait des parkings sur l’emplacement des mosquées salafistes plutôt que de détruire nos églises ? #SainteRita MLP
— Marine Le Pen (@MLP_officiel) August 3, 2016
Translated, the tweet reads: “And if they were to build a parking lot on the site of a Salafist mosque instead of destroying one of our churches?”
Local elected representatives, who staged a sit-in protest at the entrance to St. Rita and were physically removed by police, expressed disbelief at the manner in which the eviction was carried out. Philippe Goujon, Deputy Mayor of the 15th arrondissement, stated, “This is a complete shock.” National Assembly Member Fréderic Lefebvre is now calling on the Pope to save the church from demolition.
Many will say that French Catholics are overreacting. That there is no cause for offense, no conspiracy against the Church. It was a legal action. If they wanted to keep the building, they should have come up with the 3 million Euro required to obtain the property. The riot police would have been unnecessary if the faithful had simply followed orders and abandoned the building.
France’s Catholic pedigree runs deep, her title as “eldest daughter of the Church” tied to her strong Christian community dating back to the 2nd century and the conversion of King Clovis marking a major shift in the political fortunes of Christendom 496. After France’s the revolutionary government desecrated Catholic churches and killed priests and religious during the Reign of Terror, French Catholicism was never to be the same, but one imagines that whatever vestiges of cultural Catholicism (or ancestral blood) still exists in memory of Parisians, they might have exercised a bit more restraint. This was not a violent protest; these were not Islamic militants. They were Catholics offering Mass in a Catholic Church.
Taken on its own, this incident would be unsettling enough. With Fr. Hamel’s blood still fresh on the altar of his parish, however, and with Catholics now being compared by their own pope to the bestial fundamentalists of Islam, this rough treatment of our brethren in the faith at the hands of their own countrymen is a staggering blow.
Abbe Souffrant, the Cure of Maumusson (d. 1828), left us this prophecy:
. Paris will be destroyed, so much destroyed that the plow will pass it by…
Chastisement’s a comin’
Hollande, enemy of France is only piling up the judgments hanging over his head.
Paris will be nuked in the coming WW3 with Russia and China.
I trust many Church approved prophecies over your prognostication.
Fatima and Akita are approved by the Church. If you knew any details about Akita, you would know that it was considered a continuation of Fatima. Just watch how it comes to pass, sooner than you think.
P
So watch and see
Nowhere do Fatima and Akita mention Paris. Nowhere does a prophecy say Paris will be destroyed by a nuclear bomb. Several prophecies state that Paris will be destroyed by her citizens by fire and also fire from heaven and a earthquake. Paris is the home of many crimes which is why the prophecies state she will be punished so.
The catacombs will most probably collapse through some kind of man made or God made influence.
ding ding ding ding ding..winner.
Thank you, if it’s an insult that you are offering, bravo!
No insult at all Christopher, I’m saying you got it correct. Per a French mystic Marie Julie Jahenny, this is exactly what they’ll do.and mixed with fire from heaven and a earthquake, you have one flattened so much so that one mystic said “”During this revolution, which will very likely be general and not confined to France, Paris will be destroyed so completely that twenty years afterwards fathers walking over its ruins with their children will be asked by them what kind of a place that was; to whom they will answer ” My children this was a great city which God has destroyed on account of her crimes. ”
If that wouldn’t make you want to get up and out of that city right now, nothing would. I haven’t been there since 2011 and even then I wanted out nearly as soon as I got there.
Thank you Mr Matthews.
Please follow up on this story as more information becomes available. Of course, the US media will ignore it.
Thank you, Mr. Karmel and Mr. Skojec!
Yes, thank you for this reporting. It is important to be informed of such travesties so our eyes can see clearly.
I didn’t expect the Pope Francis’ insipid barbs directed at Catholic “fundamentalists” to bear their inevitable fruit so soon. Things are really moving quickly. I hope I have time to make the Five First Saturdays yet . . .
Evidence of a trail of wreckage from Pope Francis’ ‘Who am I to judge?’
https://www.lifesitenews.com/blogs/evidence-of-a-trail-of-wreckage-from-pope-francis-who-am-i-to-judge
I thank you for your words and the spirit of your comment. As for Pope Bergolio’s “…Insipid barbs…” Insipiddon’t synonyms: include : bland · weak · wishy-washy. I see his remarks as insipid as deliberately threatening, a veiled warning of things to come.
The Cardinals must take responsibility for electing this person as a Pope. Surely they must have had some inkling of his dangerous erratic character. His treacherous anti Catholic insensitive,indifferent comments on the death of Abbe Hamel rather than being insipid were a powerful message making it clear where his sympathies lie and clearly it is not with Catholics or the Catholic Church.
I haven’t seen anything anti-Catholic from him. The only objectionable comments he’s made have been over the Falkland Islands.
One priest is slain at the altar while another is forcibly dragged from the altar, both while offering the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.
When did we slip back into the third century?
This is more like the late 18th century.
Happened through out the 20th century in Mexico and spain
and Russia
And Ukraine!!!
True- but in France, this feels like the Reign of Terror.
He was breaking the law Render unto Caesars that which is Caesars the Roman Catholic Church could have paid legally for that church a thousand times over and not missed a penny of the money they chose not to.
The Church is Gods. Caesar is taking it away so that he can park his car on it, just as the pagans destroyed the Temple. Twice!
But you’re right about one thing! The situation the Church finds itself in is also a result of unfaithful men within her, just as there were unfaithful men in Israel and Judah which led to the Exile, and the destruction of Jerusalem.
The Church has no lawful right to commandeer property on the grounds that it is God’s. The owner of the property has a lawful right to exert control thereof. Had the church wished to use the building in perpetuity, they needed only to acquire the building from the willing seller. This they did not do. They thereby forfeited all right to protest the closure and redevelopment of the church.
But, DID the so-called owner in fact have a “lawful right” to the property, considering that all Church property was STOLEN by the revolutionaries during the French Revolution?
This church was built after the 1900s secular revolution. It has nothing to do with the Napoleonic Revolution. I too – despite having little time for religion – regret the destruction of Napoleon’s revolution. The demolition of Cluny Abbey was one of the greatest cultural catastrophes of human history. The same cannot be said of this insignificant 20th century edifice. Indeed, even a medieval church can conceivably be declared redundant and demolished entirely lawfully (however disastrous this would be) – unless you regard the rule of law itself as unlawful because of the history behind the law.
What about the genocide of Le Vendee? The French Revolution was a total disaster and logicaly led to the reign of terror and Napoleon, the frist of the series of dictators, followed by Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot and the rest them. I don’t see what the French have to celebrate about their revolution.
I don’t disagree with you. While in some ways it advanced the cause of science and rationality, in others it was a cultural, historical disaster, and an utter failure for democracy. However, it is not relevant to the case of this 20th-century edifice.
Caesar still needs to show some respect and should’ve waited for the Mass to conclude. If Caesar has forgotten this then on his head shall be what comes.
Evicting people from a building is a rather complicated matter and it seems that these police officers were extremely agressive.
I doubt he needed to be dragged out of Mass
When we abandoned our God. We have chosen Barabbas instead of Jesus and we don’t even notice it. We need Christ so much that we don’t even think about Him anymore. We have forgot what is the Holy sacrifice of the Mass. We have abandoned Him, we have betrayed Him. Oh please Lord, forgive us, have mercy on us.
They’re not Catholic. They’re in full–and very public–schism, and not part of the Church at all. And as you can see from the article, they were trespassing, too. This has absolutely nothing to do with the Catholic Church.
I haven’t checked if this order is in full communion with the Church, but watching this, it just does not at all look like a “peaceful” Catholic Mass. They ripped out pews to blockade a door, they’re wearing protest clothing, and face mask, in a Church they don’t have legal right to… If they are in communion, the Pope needs to squash this kind of misguided Catholicism. I am all for the FSSP, Institute of Christ the King (is my regular parish), but this is nonsense.
Idiotic statement by an ignorant fool. That is a Catholic sanctuary, there is no secular law that can supersede. You talk about “protest clothing and a face mask”, honey, the very priest who can this day forgive your sins and bring you the body, blood, soul, and divinity of our Lord is being dragged off the altar by a full battle rattle swat team.
This combox is chock full of supposed Catholics who have no clue about the rights of the God but will prattle on all day about secular “rights and laws”. How ever will you manage when the next Holy Roman Emperor uproots every republic and replaces with an absolute Catholic monarchy?
At least read the article before commenting the are in full communion
Were you sick the day they taught reading and comprehension in school?
“It is important to note that the IBP, which offers the Tridentine form of the Roman Rite according to the 1962 Roman Missal, is in full communion with the Holy See and is growing rapidly in France: ten years after its founding in 2006,”
Despicable.
I wonder if any man among the Paris police force had the courage to disobey orders to treat these loyal sons and daughters of the Church like animals. Because apparently, when the state owns Church property, there is nothing it can or cannot do on whatever whim the bureaucracy desires at a given moment.
But, hey! This would never happen here. This would never happen here. Just keep telling yourself that.
Just keep telling yourself that . . .
I believe it was Joseph, Cardinal Bernardin (obit 1996, R+I+P) that said his successor would be persecuted, and HIS successor would be killed.
I think that was Cardinal George.
“I expect to die in bed, my successor will die in prison and his successor will die a martyr in the public square. His successor will pick up the shards of a ruined society and slowly help rebuild civilization, as the church has done so often in human history.” @ncregister.com
I doubt Archbishop Cupich will die in prison. In fact, I bet he would be one of the first to jump in bed with the state.
The fact that, when he was Bishop in Spokane, he refused to do anything constructive to attempt end the practice of offering tubal ligations and artificial birth control in Spokane’s Sacred Heart Medical Center tells me all I need to know
That was Cardinal George’s assessment, not mine. I don’t imagine he knew the name of his successor at the time he said that.
Yes exactly, and I would go further to say that some are jumping into bed with the UN and their agenda is diabolical.
The United States of America is a secular federation, enshrined in the original Constitution. Therefore, religious interference in the practice of women’s reproductive rights is unlawful and unconstitutional – as the prelates are very much aware. A politically militant church is one which is doomed to lose the support of the public.
On the contrary, Mr. Harrold, an honest examination of history demonstrates that your secularism has only been imposed–mostly by the Courts–for perhaps the last 60 or 70 years. Prior to the mid-50’s, We the People behaved as though religious principles would be expected to be a part of daily life.
I think prelates are very much aware of your attitudes, which is why they rarely exercise their rights as citizens the way they should. If we were half as militant as you contend, we would be routinely out of the streets, praying on our knees. We would be demanding an end to the bullying and bigotry imposed by militant secularists. We would be insistent that the Constitution be honored as written, not as re-interpreted by those who despise religious principles.
It’s in your Constitution – the church and state are wholly separate, and Congress is forbidden from making laws for religious reasons. Even in this country, which still has an official church, secularism has been in force throughout my lifetime and longer. Public displays of religion are far from uncommon but they form very little part of political process or protest.
Mr. Harrold, like most secularists, you grossly distort the meaning of the First Amendment. Church and State are only legally divorced through the eyes of secular intolerance. If one honestly examines the laws of both the US and UK, we find that most laws of serious import have obvious roots. Various laws that forbid actions like murder, theft, libel, public nudity, also those laws which address family relationships, these came from Christian influence, not from secular intent.
If public displays of religion have become more uncommon in both nations, such a state of affairs comes about in no small part because of secular intolerance and bullying, often aided by judicial activism, not because the populace of either nation freely chose to abandon faith.
Ironically, the same secular interests who demand that “religion” be forbidden from the public square, do themselves insist that we all practice their accepted form of religion, that secularism you mentioned.
I do hope that our Supreme Court will see fit to overturn this abuse of the Constitution while I am still living.
Laws forbidding all of the above long predate the emergence of Abrahamic religion, and are often to be found in countries with no tradition of Abrahamic faith. Secularism is not religion – it is merely opposition to the undue influence of religion on law. If the Catholic Church still ruled, we wouldn’t have made such great progress with women’s rights, feminism, LGBTQ rights, racial equality etc. Now, according to numerous reliable polls, the overwhelming majority of Catholic worshippers feel that the Vatican, not governments, are out of touch with daily reality over such matters as reproductive rights, contraception, marriage equality etc.
How very factually accurate and how terribly deceiving!
If laws forbade various behaviors before Judaism and Catholicism, I notice that our nations’ laws do not stem from Druidic, Celtic, Mongol, Confuican, Buddhist, or even tribal beliefs. Instead, honest historical analysis demonstrates that morals in the West came from Catholicism or the various Protest (Protestant) derivatives.
“Secularism is not religion – it is merely opposition to the undue influence of religion on law.”
That’s true, in a sense: Secularism can be understood as a rebellion against faith-based morals. Mostly this constitutes an excuse to justify fighting against legitimate authority.
“If the Catholic Church still ruled… … marriage equality, etc”
Ah, yes, now we get to the meat of it, don’t we? I do think it very telling that most of the rebellion against religious influence comes from revolt against those “evil” clergy and laity who would challenge us to govern our passions or treat others as human beings.
Secular intentions do appear to be motivated by an interest in rejecting the idea of even the existence of sin, thereby “freeing” everyone from any obligation to restrain themselves.
Oddly, in all of this, we have a serious case of denial: No secularist will admit it, but their actions do come from a belief in a form of a god, that of human reason. Secular interests must always be careful to insist on a particular definition of what is meant by “religion”, the better to be enabled to impose their ideas on society, in opposition to organized faith.
Richard, if you are in the UK Cameron clearly said that the UK is a Christian Country.
The UK still has an established church but is a secular state to all intents and purposes.
Yes John you are right, have you noticed that the word “moral” has been dropped by the powers that be and replaced by the word “values”. Values change “Morals” do not.
Richard, but you are forgetting that the church does not and should not exist for the benefit of public opinion. The church does not exist to be politically militant, it exists to tell the truth and you make your own choice through free will. It really isn’t rocket science.
“Truth” is subjective. The Church has to adapt to modern reality or it is doomed to die. Were Jesus around today, I highly doubt he’d be opposed to contraception as a measure to fight disease and poverty.
Truth is not subjective. If man turns his back on the truth so be it. The church will never die, Jesus is still around as you put it, and disease and poverty have existed since man fell by committing original sin.
None of what you’ve said is objective fact. Even assuming one accepts Christian doctrine, many theologians dispute the concept of original sin. It is scientifically impossible for Genesis or the Adam and Eve story to be factually accurate, for a start. Disease and poverty have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with original sin or any other Christian doctrine – but they have been exacerbated by certain moral directives from the Vatican.
Who was it again that said what is truth? pilate. Some people will not accept truth and it’s up to them.
Pilate was right to ask that question. Nothing in this world is absolute – not even time itself. It has been proven that some parts of the Bible simply cannot be true. That being the case, the entire doctrine of original sin is out the window.
Dear Richard, So under your values so was judas. Our conversations will be finishing soon.
Pilate wasn’t the one who betrayed Christ. He acted according to the law under which he had to work – and, let’s face it, if he’d ignored the crowd and spared Jesus, crucifying Barabbas instead, God’s entire purpose for creating Jesus would have been plunged into the cesspit!
Dear Richard, Pilate did not have to cave in to the crowd, he also did not know what truth is. His wife tried to warn him and he satisfied the will of man rather than God. BTW God never created Jesus! I’m surprised that you are not aware of that, however you think that truth is subjective, in your world if I said that you have a beautiful orange cat as your avatar you would say……………. yep!
Pilate recognised that he himself would be in danger if he didn’t serve the wishes of the public. Unfortunately, said public were a load of barbarous bigots. God never created Jesus? So the whole doctrine about JC being the son of God is out the window? Now, of course, in some relatively mundane physical matters, there is absolute truth – for example, Raphael is most certainly black-and-white. However – is he? Or is that just how human eyesight perceives him? Is that even how the eye sees him, or is it an imposition of the brain? After all, we do know that the eye sees upside-down – it’s the brain which then flips the image the right way up again. But, in matters spiritual and philosophical, there is no absolute objective truth. Every religion in the world insists that it is the one true faith, and that all other claimants to that title are mere pretenders. The idea that just one can have a total monopoly on truth is inconceivable.
Dear Richard,
So Pilate did the wrong thing and caved in. Therefore on your basis that there is no truth, If the public turn up at my house tomorrow and want to kill me because I do not conform to their values so be it! That my friend is how to deal with truth, we live in truth or you die in values (indifference).
Raphael is a “he” bravo I’m surprised that you admitted that, whereas the black and white explanation move into the realms of bs. Don’t be silly about your cat’s colour because we have words that name everything and he is black and white.
I will argue with you against other faiths based on the fact that only Jesus said “I am the way, the truth, and the life. Nobody gets to the Father except through me” it’s your choice to find the truth not mine, and seriously I hope that you do.
In Christ
Christopher.
Not necessarily saying he was right, but the point (from which we have diverged greatly) is that secular civil law must always carry supreme authority over the conflicting wishes of different religious groupings. If it does not, the only alternative is anarchy and devastating sectarian violence. Every single religion is equally convinced of its validity, so don’t try to tell me yours is somehow more valid than any of the others.
Dear Richard, That’s for you to discover, and yes I would be so bold to say that there is one true faith and it’s the church founded by Christ himself.
Seek and you shall find.
You say that. Equally, I could find others equally insistent that Mohammed was the true prophet, or indeed Krishna, etc etc. I find such insistence staggeringly arrogant. The reality is that none of us really knows.
Yes Richard, You choose what you want to believe, just like everyone else can exercise their own free will.
Have a great Sunday.
Dear Richard, Great for you, in the sense you can find others to believe in one thing or the other, but you should grow a pair and accept that what you choose to believe is your own personal choice (free will). You chose agnostic and that’s your choice.
Now to cut a very long story short I looked a various faiths and chose the Roman Catholic Faith, it was only when I asked God to show me the truth that this happened.
This is why I understand converts more than the regular Catholics that perform the actions of going to mass etc whilst being superficial or show offs.
Have a great day and although we do not have a cat, you have a beautiful cat.
Kind regards and in Christ.
Christopher
I totally respect people choosing one faith (better that than being forced into it in early childhood and fed the whole original sin/hellfire bullshít!)… but one must always, even in piety, retain a degree of scepticism and even agnosticism… or else one is doomed to evangelical fundamentalism.
Genitum non factum.
Vade retro Satanis.
There’s nothing Satanic about making an unimpeachable statement of fact.
Yep it was Cardinal George and the time of persecution is coming fast (IMO).
This is not and never was state-owned property. It was built by the church after the 1900s secular revolution. It was sold by the church.
“…this rough treatment of our brethren in the faith at the hands of their own countrymen is a staggering blow.”
Really? French “laïcité” and Islam have their origins in the same father – the devil. Is it a blow to unmask demons by resistance to them? God bless the priest for being a faithful witness to the one thing that truly matters.
As for the secularist and islamist tools – they will all account for their service to Satan, either in this life or the next.
Islam is the same thing as Christianity, moron. Jesus – Isa – is the second-most important prophet in Islam. Mary – Mariam – is likewise venerated. Abraham – Ibrahim – is recognised as the father of all humanity. Most Christians, especially in France, are also secularists, regarding the separation of religion and state as vital to the fairness of the latter and freedom of the former.
Christianity and Islam the same thing? What stone did you crawl out from under, Mustafa?
That Jesus was a mere prophet is a lie of the devil, touted by his servants the muslims. You do not venerate Him, you re-create Him in your own minds and venerate the false concept you have created on the instruction of your false prophet.
The fact that you think that most Christians are secularists would suggest that you don’t have the faintest idea what a Christian is. Read “Quas primas” and you will find out what Christians believe.
I’m not a Muslim. I’m an Anglo-Roman-Catholic agnostic. You should research the origins of all Abrahamic religions. They all have common roots, each developed from the one before. Religious states are easily overturned, history teaches us this: a secular liberal state is a more stable one, and guarantees the freedom of worship all religious folk enjoy. Even in my times of the most pious religiosity, I never felt for one moment the presumption that I was right and that all whose theology differed from mine were wrong. That’s just plain arrogant. Piety must always be tempered with a degree of theistic agnosticism, or it is doomed to fundamentalism.
So in your mind there is no ” Truth”, or shall we say ” objective Truth”.
What is the purpose of your life, as you see it then?
The purpose of my life is to make the best of it I can and see what, if anything, comes next – in the meantime, I live for today.
I disagree. The purpose of life should be to discover the truth and follow it otherwise it wouldn’t have been necessary for Jesus to say I am the way, the truth and the life. Nobody gets to the Father except through me. By the way your cat is beautiful.
Ah, that’s Raphael, named after the beautiful Italianate RC church in Kingston-upon-Thames. Much church doctrine on social issues is based largely on the Old Testament, which was superseded by Jesus’ New Covenant – and, such has been the revolution in society since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution, I cannot help but think it’s time for another New Covenant – and, until Jesus shows up again to give it to us, we must simply accept that what held true 2000 years ago is of limited relevance and applicability to the modern world.
If history shows us that religious states are easily overturned, how do you explain the Catholic Church and the Vatican when Christ’s Church has existed for 2000 years?
Your statement about arrogance conflates the only Church established by Christ with all of the false, man made religions which makes your statement quite ludicrous. Let’s consider the fallacy of your statement by looking at Webster’s definition of arrogant and asking you to reconsider your statement subsequent to answering a couple of questions following Webster’s definition.
Definition of arrogant. 1 : exaggerating or disposed to exaggerate one’s own worth or importance often by an overbearing manner 2 : showing an offensive attitude of superiority : proceeding from or characterized by arrogance
Question 1.) How does a Catholic who truly lives the Faith, or the Church herself, fit either of Webster’s definitions of arrogant? His One and only, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic Church teaches the humbleness and humility that Christ taught, which is not to be confused with the “doormat” type of humbleness or humility found in the secular world, because Catholics are taught via Scripture and the Traditions passed on to us by Jesus and His Apostles to contend for the Faith. Therefore, we simply state the truth with no intention of offense. Question 2.) Do you perceive that as arrogant and, if so, why?
The Vatican City as an independent city-state has only existed since the 1930s, when Mussolini granted it independence. Prior to that, it was part of the unified Italy of 1862. Before that, it was just one of many warring prince-bishoprics, with no real stability. ALL religions are man-made: the idea that one has any monopoly on divine heredity is absurd and yes, arrogant.
Atheist trolls shouldn’t visit Catholic websites. You have nothing to offer us – your ignorance is profound.
I’m not an atheist. I’m an Anglo-Roman-Catholic agnostic. You should research the origins of all Abrahamic religions. They all have common roots, each developed from the one before.
Agnostic, Humanist, Modernist, Atheist, Infidel – doesn’t matter. They all deny the Triune God who sent His Son to redeem Mankind. He is the only One who taught with the authority of God & to support His teaching allowed Himself to be crucified (for our sins), die & by the power within Him rose on the third day as He had forecast & ascended into Heaven witnessed by His Apostles & disciples & written in the Scriptures. No other prophet, ‘deity’, religious zealot etc. has ever displayed such Truth & personal sacrifice for their followers.
Muhammad was a paedophile, polygamist, murderer who suffered from hallucinations & encouraged his followers they should kill anyone who refused to convert, which is in keeping with the Qur’an which states to ‘go for the neck’. Their heinous deeds of late (quoting Allahu Akbar) are definitely Satanic & cannot be condoned by any human.
It is about time someone spoke the plain truth to Richard Harrold.
Thumbs up Ana – excellent response.
May I suggest Hilaire Belloc’s book The Great Heresies. He devotes an entire chapter to Islam.
Belloc had many outdated ideas – he was a dinosaur in his time. At the same time, Winston Churchill seriously contemplated converting to Islam.
You might want to reconsider Margaret’s suggestion. In the mean time, please provide one of Belloc’s “many outdated ideas” as I am unaware of even one. If someone conveyed, “Wherever the Catholic sun doth shine, there’s always laughter and good red wine. At least I’ve always found it so. Benedicamus Domino!” I would not refer to that person as a dinosaur. Rather, a dinosaur would be more like someone who was a proponent of eugenics finding their silly notions of eugenics crumble while engaging in a World War with another proponent of eugenics, and then still clinging to some of the silly notions of eugenics, which would apply much more to Churchill than Belloc.
Belloc was a creationist, dismissing Darwinian evolution as discredited. He was a most unreliable historian, an unrepentant anti-Semitic imperialist who also considered that Islam had to be controlled and ultimately destroyed by the West, and a ceaseless cheerleader for the European war machine. Not my idea of a moral paragon.
That’s a wonderful book and a very good suggestion.
You’re welcome. ☺ It’s very apropos given the state of the world today.
Si, sacerdote celebrante, violetur ecclesia ante Canonem, dimittatur Missa : si post Canonem, non dimittatur. Si timeatur incursus hostium, vel alluvionis, vel ruina loci ubi celebratur, ante Consecrationem dimittatur Missa ; post Consecrationem vero sacerdos accelerare poterit sumptionem Sacramenti, omissis omnibus aliis.
(If, with the priest celebrating, the church is violated before the Canon, the Mass may be abandoned: if after the Canon, it may not be abandoned. If an attack of enemies, or a flood be feared, or the ruin of the place where it is celebrated, before the Consecration the Mass may be abandoned: but after the Consecration the priest can hasten to the reception of the Sacrament, with everything else omitted.)–De Defectibus, St. Pope Pius V
Paris is as silly as New York. Who ever heard of a 3 million Euro parking lot?
A multi-storey car-park could easily cost that to build. Reinforced concrete, steel girders, deep foundations, expensive unionised labour…
That’s what they wanted for the land under the church- before building the car park.
Market forces dictate that land is often sold for not what it alone is worth, but the potential income the owner forfeits by not developing the land themselves.
Markets are insane.
But I knew that already.
Well, at least they didn’t use bayonets as they did after the 1905 Law on the Separation of the Churches and State, execute the priests by firing squad as they did to Msgr Georges Darboy, Archbishop of Paris, in 1871, or guillotine them as they did to priests and nuns during the Terror. In other words, this is nothing new to the French Republic!
And France is supposedly “eldest daughter of the Church” tied to her strong Christian community dating back to the 2nd century.
The Eldest Daughter is still alive and kicking, however the cum bya and Taize element has spread.
If you are ever in France it’s worth visiting Ile de Madame Many priests were held there before being deported.
In Rochefort which is very close to Ile de Madame the river flowed red with the blood of Priests that had been executed in La Rochelle.
So will Pope Francis step in to make a statement shedding some of that merciful light on what happened to the poor people of this outcast periphery of the Church? Obviously victims of Capitalism?
And in this Year of Mercy also.
RT covered the story for anyone interested.
https://youtu.be/JslpZt1cZSY
Perhaps the priests and worshippers were trespassing by celebrating Mass in a church that has been sold. That does not justify desecrating the Holy Mass with Jesus present on the altar. Why did the police have to make a big production out of it? The Mass would have been over in an hour. People would have left and they could have locked the place up tight.
I thought the same thing. The church in Massachusetts that had a vigil because the Archdiocese wanted to sell it lasted many years, but there was respect for the parishioners by the AD, and the community. They lost it after several appeals, but never did it come to this. Excessive force by police as you stated was totally unnecessary. This is most definitely a travesty. Its almost like taking ones frustration/anger out on your own, rather than be restrained or directed to the actual cause. I would like to know more details, the reaction of the bishops/cardinals, etc. However, if we are to be persecuted then we are all going to face difficult times ahead.
It’s a mass, a mass God neither gave blessing to being created nor did Jesus Christ he said MAKE NOT OF ME A CHURCH, read your bible, and don’t bring pagan rituals to the altars of God the Rosary came from Babylonia.
Looks like we have a Protestant nut here. Care to point out where that quote is in the Bible? Hmmmm? We’re waiting heretic!
And the rosary came from the Mother of God, whom God would have you honour as He does in obedience to the 4th Commandment He gave, and as your Queen with regards to His Divine Kingship! And as Full of Grace as His Angelic Messenger declared!
Go read the Bible, instead of fictitious quotes from your no-name ‘church’ in backwaters no-town USA.
Irrelevant and ignorant comment by Alana. But never useful to call people names I think. I know, I am angry too after reading the article and watching the video elsewhere. But still, better to explain things to people who try to follow God but have never had the treasure of good instruction or none at all 😉
lolwat
My goodness… have you never read a history book? To be deep into history is to cease being Protestant. Ya might try reading the Bible as well. The Last Supper was the first Mass.
The Mass was being offered long before the New Testament was even written ma’am.
This is irrelevant comment. This folks were worshipping! What barbaric behavior by police!
zzzzz Nobody here cares about your bad philosophy and worse religion
Lol that’s really funny the Babylon prayed the bible on beads before Jesus was born. The idea of using beads for prayer is not new buddies use them Muslims have beads orthodox Christians have beads and I would not be surprised if different pagan groups including the Babylonians used beads in prayer. Here is the difference we reflect on key events in the life of Jesus. Which I can grantee the Babylonians did not.
Each of your assertions reveals you to be abysmally ignorant.
Oh boy! The rosary is the meditation of the New Testament using the proclaimation of the Angel Gabriel to the Virgin Mary and the response by St. Elizabeth, also to the Virgin Mary. As for the Bible. It is the property of the Catholic Church and not that of a modern Protestant sect. Read the link it might help. See who decided what was canonical and what was not.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03274a.htm
Hi Gilda.
Thanks for that excellent Newadvent.com link with a very thorough history on New Testament Canon! Good stuff!!!
Kudos on your good defense of the Rosary too.
Why? Because the secular state, reeling under the challenge of islamist violence, chose to make a show of even-handedness. This is political theatre, instigated by islamists and reacting secularists terrified of being accused of anti-islam animus. Catholics are getting it from both sides. Yes, it is demonic.
Absolutely right on!
Except they’re not doing anything about Islam.
This is absolutely outrageous. Even handedness? People attending a Mass can hardly equate with knife wielding Islamists butcheringa frail old French priest.This is a disgusting display of brutality and a slap and spit in the face to French history and justice by the police approved by the French government. You rose up once so now you must do it again.
Vive la (vraie) France !
The worshippers were using the Mass as a protest, having barricaded themselves inside a building which they were not allowed to use.
People attending Mass or caring about those who do are numerically invisible in secular France. Their views don’t count. The French state is more than pleased to take a swipe at them especially if it can do so while burnishing its tolerance credentials, pleading that it has no particular problem with islam.
It wasn’t the Mass; these people aren’t Catholic. They’re in schism, not part of the Church at all. And they were trespassing. Nothing untoward happened there at all. Read the article.
The schism comes from places you may not wish to fully acknowledge.
No, it doesn’t seem they’re in schism
Hey Ignoramus KOJohnson, did YOU read the article?
“It is important to note that the IBP, which offers the Tridentine form of the Roman Rite according to the 1962 Roman Missal, is in full communion with the Holy See and is growing rapidly in France: ten years after its founding in 2006,”
What part about that don’t you understand?
Absolute blathering nonsense! If the priest is from the SSPX, then realise, that the order is recognised by Rome as NOT schismatic. The pope would hardly grant them the faculty to hear confessions if they were schismatic, would he? Otherwise, what in God’s name are you talking about?
“It is important to note that the IBP, which offers the Tridentine form of the Roman Rite according to the 1962 Roman Missal, is in full communion with the Holy See and is growing rapidly in France: ten years after its founding in 2006, the number of priests in the IBP has grown to more than 30, and the Institute can boast of an equal number of seminarians. It is governed by the same regulations as more familiar Institutes and Fraternities dedicated to the preservation of Tradition, such as the Priestly Fraternity of Saint Peter (FSSP) and the Institute of Christ the King Sovereign Priest (ICKSP). Contrary to some reports, therefore, it appears that the parishioners who were forcibly evicted from St. Rita were not “Gallicans”, but rather Catholics in good standing with the Church”.
Exactly. I’m beyond fed up.
BINGO!
so we don’t only need to watch out for militant Muslims but also militant secular governments huray. pray the rosary we are in dark times
Err… no. The priest and congregation were trespassing in a property which is not theirs. They had the opportunity to acquire it openly and lawfully, but they failed to do so.
Yes because 3 million Eros are easy to come by besides that’s not the point I was trying to make the fact is this is the celebration of the.mass they could have waited for mass to finish they had no need to drag the priest across the floor that way after everyone was out the grabbed an elderly lady and dragged her in a similar manner across the pavement.once mass ended they could have escorted the people out without using violence being these catholics in good standing posed no threat and we’re being non violent the police showed little respect for the Eucharist the mass and the priests and their fellow con patriots and by little I mean none
I do not believe it wise to insist on this as an act of secular government bullying faithful people. If a person can barricade himself inside a church for 40 minutes, he can also find some other excuse for why he must not leave after that time.
If any scandal occurred here, it was to insist on offering Mass as an act of defiance of enforcing just law. Actions such as this do not aid the cause of faith in our daily lives.
The congregation issued no public fundraising appeal. If they couldn’t raise the cash, they couldn’t afford the upkeep or restoration of the building either. The mass was deliberately held as a protest, not as part of the regular schedule. They would doubtless have continued with a Boston-style 24/7 vigil.
Richard, I have noticed you posted this about 15 times and in one post you said you’re not even religious. If you’re not religious why are you posting on a Catholic blog?
I was raised RC and High Church Anglo-Catholic simultaneously, and retain sympathies for the cultural richness of both traditions, and for the Tridentine Latin Mass. I just slipped into agnosticism through my teens, and I think it’s given me a wider, deeper sense of perspective about the Church and religion in general. It can be a tremendous force for good – but when it abuses its power, or breaks into internal politicking, the consequences can be disastrous.
That”s a very candid response, thank you.
Well forget that High Anglican stuff unless you’re just interested for historical purposes.. How can you not see the hand of God, divine providence in so many things?
My father was a Scottish Episcopalian, though he converted to RC a few years ago. I will always love Anglican Choral Matins, Evensong and Sung Eucharist services… the musical tradition is simply stunning. Through Dad I am somewhat distantly related to Herbert Howells, one of my favourite composers, and I live very much in the same part of the world as Howells’ colleague Ralph Vaughan Williams. Both were agnostic BTW. I certainly sometimes see or hear of things for which there is no obvious explanation. We know a huge amount about science, but the most eminent particle physicists put their knowledge of the structure of the universe at no more than 4%… so I am certainly open to all possibilities… but I tend to take the Sir Patrick Moore line: “We just don’t know”.
I would like to see them try this in a mosque
They wouldn’t dare. Catholics are easy fodder. They won’t chop your head off, but Muslims …….
Most Muslims would rather kill themselves than resort to violence against another. ISIS are no more Muslim than the Lord’s Resistance Army are Christian.
What are they then? They claim to be carrying out the orders of Muhammad & their Qur’an allows & encourages their bestial behaviour. You should study the Bible & Ten Commandments of the CC & discern the difference between Christianity & Islam – like chalk & cheese.
The Quran forbids it, I can quote any number of verses – most of them admit to being wholly ignorant of the Quran, joining ISIS for financial reasons instead. Those who do join because they’re radicalised Muslims are cherry-picking bits of the Quran out of historical/geopolitical context, and they’re missing the entire point. Here are a few quotes…
[Quran
7:159] Among the followers of Moses there are those who guide in
accordance with the truth, and the truth renders them righteous.
[Quran
5:46] Subsequent to them, we sent Jesus, the son of Mary, confirming
the previous scripture, the Torah. We gave him the Gospel, containing
guidance and light, and confirming the previous scriptures, the Torah,
and augmenting its guidance and light, and to enlighten the righteous.
[Quran
5:47] The people of the Gospel shall rule in accordance with God’s
revelations therein. Those who do not rule in accordance with God’s
revelations are the wicked.
[Quran 2:62 & 5:69]
Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish, the Christians, and the
converts; anyone who (1) believes in God, and (2) believes in the Last
Day, and (3) leads a righteous life, will receive their recompense from
their Lord. They have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.
[Quran
3:113-114]. They are not all the same; among the followers of the
scripture, there are those who are righteous. They recite God’s
revelations through the night, and they fall prostrate.
[Quran
5:82] You will find that the closest people in friendship to the
believers are those who say, “We are Christian.” This is because they
have priests and monks among them, and they are not arrogant.
I’m sure Asia Bibi would agree with all this (not).
Who is she?
Dear Richard, Tap her name into the interweb and you shall see with your own eyes.
Let me guess, without being bothered to do so, a so-called ex-Muslim turned Islamophobe, who fails to understand the gaping chasm between hardline Salafism and modern liberal Islam?
Thank you for first of all making an assumption and second of all for the insult. I spent many years with so called moderates within the UK ( Surrey University ) and was grateful to visit their home country which in this case was Egypt. They taught me that their attitude is to be like Romans whilst in Rome which in the case was the UK and to show their true colours when they are in their home country ( Death to America ).
Yea, they do kill themselves it’s called a suicide bomb to get plenty of virgins.
That’s not what I was talking about. Most would rather remove themselves from this earth than remove anyone else from it.
Funny that from my experience the objective is to convert everyone. If your children leave or bring dishonour on the family they can be chopped up as well.
None of my Muslim friend or acquaintances could give a damn what I am. Many of them have married outside Islam too, without any stain of dishonour being felt by the family. This is Britain, not Pakistan.
Sorry please remind me………….. How many Sharia courts are there in the UK?
Zero… Sharia has no legal weight, power or authority in this country. Any decisions made within Muslim communities must fall within existing UK law or prosecutions will follow – as they sometimes have.
There is actually 85 sharia courts in the uk.
There is no such thing as a Sharia court in the UK, for the simple reason that we do not have Sharia enshrined in our legal system. Sharia has no weight or authority in any court in this country, and any body attempting to usurp the position of the justice system is in breach of the law.
So if there isn’t any basis in UK law why are the UK’s Police advising people to use one of the 85 Sharia courts in the UK?
Cops tell domestic abuse victims to call local sharia council when they rang for help
Two women were given the same ‘guidance’ by West Yorkshire Police even though the Islamic councils have no basis in UK law.
They aren’t. Where are you getting this information from? The Daily Express? The Daily Mail? The Sun? Britain First? Breitbart? Now, sure, mosques are influential in Muslim communities, that’s so blindingly obvious that only a fool could miss it – and they can provide some guidance to their members – but they have ZERO legal authority. NONE WHATSOEVER. The only courts in this country are those run by the Department of Justice.
“…Catholic splinter groups and far-right [revolutionaries].”
Where do I sign up?
Go to “Fra’ Alessio” on “Ordinis Militaris Catholici”
Fra’ Alexis Bugnolo is trying to create a force to fight this.
And God bless Marine Le Pen if she stays true to the Church!
It’s her Daughter that seems to have a better sense of the fundamentals of France.
The Blues vs The Vendee?
You got it, tho’ most readers will have no idea what you’re talking about!
And the French police won’t even clear the block streets in Muslim areas during their prayer time. Get ready for the catacombs.
Streets are public places. The city must have given permission for Muslim prayers to be held there, as well as various protest and rallies, etc.
Whereas this particular church seems to be a private property and the owner apparently wants it back to sell to a developer of parking lots. Unlike Catholic churches, this particular church is a Gallican church, neither owned nor administered by the Archdiocese of Paris.
Still, the police could have waited until Mass was over instead of forcefully evicting the priest and congregation.
How much you wrongly assume
You’re clueless, you haven’t seen any of the stories about them praying in the streets and illegally blocking fraffic? This has been going on for years now, google a few things, read a few things.
Where do we send the money to pay for the Church? Please do more in depth reporting about how to save them and punish this desecration.
Gotta make room for all those mosques.
What do you mean by “being compared by their own pope to the bestial fundamentalists of Islam?” Are you saying Pope Francis compared these Catholics to Muslims?? Or is that a typo and meant to read “compared by their own people…” Please tell me it’s the latter.
See here: https://onepeterfive.wpengine.com/the-root-cause-of-islamic-violence/
Well you know what the pope says about fundamentalism……….. dangerous……… so sad
Did the local Bishop have a hand in this?
That is a wise question.
Mr. Skojec, you should be ashamed. This is recklessly dishonest reporting. While the headline portrays this an act of aggression against Catholics, the content makes plain otherwise. If local official were appalled by the actions of police, I should hope they were equally appalled by the refusal of citizens to abide by just laws.
We cannot expect people to take Catholics seriously if we declare that we are not subject to paying the bills.
I’m not the least bit ashamed. A priest was pulled from the altar during Mass in a show of needless aggression. It may well be the subject of debate whether or not this was an appropriate form of protest. But in the minds of civilized people, there is no debate over whether this was the appropriate way to deal with such a protest.
You and other SHOULD be ashamed, Mr. Skojec. It seems quite clear that the police had arrived to evict the congregation because of unpaid bills. Those in the church appear to have begun Mass mostly as an excuse for why they could not be moved, not because they had a legitimate need to seek the Lord’s intercession. You can’t justly insist on offering Mass wherever or whenever you wish merely to impede someone else from enforcing legitimate law.
If you’re worried about people being civilized, bear in mind that the police did not have much choice. The congregation appears to have manipulated this situation as a means to make themselves look innocent victims of aggressive officers.
I do not believe we have just evidence to support that claim.
Still not ashamed. The police could have waited. But please, continue to defend their actions. I’m sure your case is very persuasive.
“The police could have waited.”
Waited..for what?
Should they have waited for Mass to end?
Given the behavior of people in Boston a few years ago, I would expect the congregants to resist the police after Mass just as much as during. We would see an article about the congregation being marched out, possibly in cuffs. I do not believe you or others would be a lick less scandalized.
Your views mostly persuade me that you believe Catholics to be above the law. If that’s the case, …we are in serious trouble!
Yes. That’s exactly what they should have done.
Common sense dictates that one may not demand the right to celebrate Mass as a means of demonizing an opponent.
If the police acted scandalously to you, the priest and congregation acted all the more scandalously. You may not use the offering of Mass as an excuse to knowingly and intentionally defy an otherwise just law.
12 Police vans of SWAT teams??? Really? That is a bit over the top.
“Around three dozen faithful gathered for Mass…”
“They were standing because the pews had been removed in order to form a barricade at the entrance to the church. ”
That sounds like a crowd getting ready for a nasty fight, Ms. Sedivy.
When I recognize how a general secularizing of the West has caused many to become quite suspicious of religion, then recognize how Islamic extremist behavior has fed that suspicion, this seems less out of place than otherwise. Fairly or not, the Parisian police may have anticipated a need to drag close to 50 violent people out of the church, many of kicking and screaming all the way.
In that light, 12 SWAT teams would be right on par.
As someone who has participated in force on force exercises with SWAT teams both here in the US and internationally, I find it impossible to reconcile the use of SWAT in this instance. SWAT teams are primarily trained for higher threat environments and certainly not normally used to clear out squatters from a building.
One may criticize the actions of the Priest – who seemingly was reaching out to the peripheries as a ‘chaplain’ to the Gallicans – reconciling them to the Catholic Church in the process.
If you know anything about the Gallicans, they used an unreformed version of the 1570 Missal, so it would be quite normal for a ‘traditionalist’ institute to be able to be a way to reconcile them.
Now, as I am sure you are aware, the absolute vast majority of Catholic Churches in France are owned by the State, and NOT the Church. Catholics really don’t have a right to them at all, unless the state grants it to them. In this case, the Church WAS privately owned. But, the status is functionally the same.
In policing operations, deescalation is usually the principal that is used to avoid violence. For instance, the police never clear the Muslims from the streets, even when they shut down all the traffic during prayers. Additionally, the state has not cleared them out of the five historically Catholic Churches they illegally occupy.
Waiting 40 minutes and then doing the same thing would have no differential effect – thusly securing the property rights of the owner.
DITTO- from a retired police officer!
When people have chosen to barricade themselves into a building, Unanimous, that’s usually not an indication that they intend to surrender quietly. If I were in charge of those police, I likely would consider that the situation will most likely be ugly no matter what I do, so I may as well get on with it.
As far as deescalation goes, bear in mind that I have read complaints about how France is beginning to approach a simmering boil; Muslims refuse to abide by laws, while police refuse to enforce them. While violence has not broken out (yet), the situation has not been precisely congenial. I would say that several dozen people in a church pose a far smaller threat to the wider community than do 200 or more already in the street.
There was no real need to deescalate in this case. There would be really bad press given to the police no matter what they did, so they may as well act, let the wagging tongues wag, and get on with life.
Do you know what SWAT even means? Special Weapons and Tactics. This was assinine.
If you have any experience with policing, special weapons, TTPs or sniping, I would like to know. What planet are you from?
T’would seem they had a need for special weapons and tactics. They only broke down the doors, forced the pews aside, and removed people. If the SWAT teams had done as SWAT teams might be required to do, they might have simply shot many of the crowd until the rest began to disperse. They did not. It would seem to me the police exercised considerable restraint.
They should never have been utilized, you fool. A twenty year beat cop and 3 rookies could have handled this. This was overkill, and your position is entirely untenable.
Looks like you’re both right. Using the Mass as a protest, in this case, is beyond the pale. But stopping it once its begun was overkill.
Still, I agree with Mr. Flaherty- your headline while factual, was hardly the whole truth. It seems, from what we know now that you could have just as easily have written ‘Illegal squatters barricade church, use Mass to thwart police”.
Might have been wiser to follow the story for a few more days to see what new information emerged.
‘Those fundamentalist sourpuss rosary counters had it coming to them’, Pope Francis
What a shame. And what’s really saddening is the Pope comparing Catholics to Islamic fundamentalis terrorists!
Well, there are Catholic terrorists, especially in India and Central Africa. This lot in Paris weren’t terrorists but were certainly fundamentalists who refused to recognise they had no lawful right to use the building.
Name them please?
The Lord’s Resistance Army, led by Joseph Kony, pray the rosary before murdering Muslims and enslaving child soldiers. There are dissident IRA groups in Ireland, and there are groups in India like the National Liberation Front of Tripura, the Nationalist Socialist Council of Nagaland and the Manmasi National Christian Army (although some of these appear to be non-denominational or linked to Southern Baptist churches in the USA), and there were/are Maronite Christian terrorists in Lebanon, who were very active and murderous in the long, bloody civil war there. A white supremacist group called Christian Identity, active throughout the English-speaking world, carried out a string of bombings in Soweto, South Africa in 2002, although they only managed to kill one person. There’s also the Army of God in the USA, which seems to think murdering doctors, rather than distributing contraceptives, is the way to stop abortion.
Don’t forget the Christero war.
I wouldn’t call that terrorism per se… it was arguably a legitimate war, whatever horrific things were done as part of it… even I as a secularist and agnostic back the Catholic side. Even when faced with a politically active/militant religious movement, there can be no excuse for religious persecution.
Exactly the Christero Wars was a plant to see how you would respond and you admit that their cause was justified.
Can’t see any Catholic’s in the various protestant organisations that you named. You could argue that the IRA were Catholic but in reality they acted outside of the truth of the Catholic faith. However and that’s a big however why is it that recently the North of Ireland are now interested in reunifying with the rest of Ireland?
The LRA at least are Catholic – not sure about the Indian lot – some appear to be non-denom, some Baptist. The Christero case is difficult – there’s no doubt the RC church was fighting for some frighteningly right-wing political causes, and so I can understand the antipathy some left-wing politicians felt to the Church – but brutal repression isn’t the way to go about it, and if anything plays right into the RC right-wingers’ hands. In Northern Ireland, the Catholics largely want to become part of Eire, while the Protestants prefer to remain in the UK. However, Brexit has led to a rise in support for Irish reunification. When the EU disintegrates completely, however, it’s anybody’s guess what will happen.
The LRA were not Catholic they were the Holy Spirit movement. So your original argument has been defeated.
Err – LRA most certainly are Catholic. HSM had its own militia, the Holy Spirit Mobile Force.
Richard, Again you may want to do some research on this as it seems you are incorrect. Here’s a snippet of some information to disprove you.
During the Christmas of 2008, the LRA massacred at least 143 people and abducted 180 at a concert celebration sponsored by the Catholic Church in Faradje in the Democratic Republic of Congo,[36] and struck several other communities in the near-simultaneous attacks: 75 people were murdered in a church near Dungu,
Yes – and you know why? Because the churches in question had spoken up against their reign of divisive terror. They also subscribe to a particularly austere version of Catholicism which regards music, education and cultural pursuits as sinful.
Dear Richard, Really are you a member? I think that you are wrong and you will not admit that your flavour of whatever you choose to believe doesn’t match the reality.
If you actually got information on this issue from the aid and security agencies which have to deal with the consequences of the atrocities committed by these groups, rather than basing your views on blind prejudice, you’d accept that terrorism exists in all religions equally, none being entirely innocent (although I have yet to hear of an act of Anglican terrorism in living memory).
Well go and be an Anglican. Alternatively Henry the 8th did a great job of killing those that refused to accept his manipulation of the true faith.
Henry was a murderous tyrant who set this country back 250 years in social, industrial and economic development, and I’ve no wish to be part of the CofE either – for a start, the 39 Articles are a load of guff. Besides, as I said, these days I’m agnostic.
It’s just a building. Becoming overly attached to a structure is not a balanced outlook. Unless it has some inordinate historical signifance – and even then many old structures are taken down for lack of funding to support them – there is no reason to keep it open.
In NYC we had a couple of parishes that took a long time to close because the few remaining parishioners refused to leave. I loved my childhood church but the Catholics moved out and left it behind. it was sold many times until no faith community could take it on. I think it’s been empty for a long time.
48 hour rule, everyone. Let’s see what this looks like in a day or so…
so what, they were trespassing. I thought that you Catholics respected private property? if they wanted to hold their services there, they should have paid for it.
Could be possible that this is a complot so the traditionalis feel scare?
I didn’t see any women wearing veils, and it is very strange,because generally at traditionnal latin Mass women wear it. Also some guys were with their hats.
I don’t know, but it look like somethinh prepare.
I woul like to have more information.
This priest was trespassing privete property.
“Thus, in October 2015, they abandoned St. Rita and the building was slated to be demolished and the property converted into a parking lot. It was at this time that Fr. Guillaume de Tanoüarn, ordained in the Society of St. Pius X (SSPX) and co-founder of the Institute of the Good Shepherd (IBP), began offering the traditional Latin Mass to all who desired it.”
It seems to me that the good father was trespassing on private property. I’m not saying that the way the police handled it was the proper way to do so, but perhaps the priest and others who were trespassing had finally forced the hand. As you put it, the story is still developing, we don’t know all of the facts.
Yes, this has happened in the twentieth century and in many countries around the world so fellow Catholic’s, its going to happen here too, be prepared and be in the state of grace. We’ve had it too easy here for quite some time and most people of faith have not appreciated what we had and at some point, holy mother church will have to go underground……
Bottom line for me is there was no excuse for not waiting until Mass was over to escort the clergy out. Terrible optics for France.
Or they were making a point that Catholics are not welcome.
The Satanic Verses are being proved correct each day that Europe looks the other way.
Will the first daughter ever wake again?
could they not have waited until Holy Mass was overin around Half an hour?
funny how they can apprehend Catholics but some how the muslims get away with every atrocity and the police are caught unawares
Considering the mass was held as a protest against eviction, the priest and worshippers would likely have attempted to maintain an indefinite vigil, as in the case in Boston.
that may be but they wouldn’t have Mass all day
If this is not the property of the Church, and if the owner of the property did not give permission for the Church to use the property, then why are Catholic priests expecting to be able to trespass and keep the owner from demolishing a building that is not owned by the Church? Am I misunderstanding the situation? Why are we even in the building if we do not own it and do not have the owner’s permission to use it? That seems to be the ultimate in disobedience.
This was a privately owned church, built after the 1905 concordat. Almost all of the Churches in France are actually owned by the State.
Thanks for the clarifying information. It appears as though none of the Catholics should have been using the private property without consent of the private owner. Unfortunately, given the history of socialist governments, the timing and method of removal is expected… or perhaps France has a more polite form of socialism that would render different expectations.
Western democratic socialism is nothing like Leninist Communism. The two are very largely unrelated, save that both are loosely based on Marx’s treatises. The Mass appears not to have been a regularly scheduled one but rather one which was held as part of a spontaneous protest against eviction.
Not sure why you’re making the Communism comparison in reply to my comment as I didn’t mention Communism. The story is, no doubt, much more involved than the article and video reveal and, since I don’t know details of the history, any further comments from me would be mere speculation.
“Unfortunately, given the history of socialist governments, the timing and method of removal is expected” – the only ‘socialist’ governments to have been actively anti-religious are those of the Communist persuasion. Democratic socialism is neutral on the subject of religion.
Your thought of Democratic Socialism being neutral on religion will be considered as I learn more about it. The information I presently have leads me to believe Democratic Socialism is simply Socialism trying to make itself sound better by placing a nice sounding word before it and is essentially the same as plain ol’ Socialism and Communism because such notions are flawed with the utopian fallacy that fails to acknowledge the fallen nature of man. Thanks for your input. I’ll keep my mind open with my guard up to filter out the myths floating around about Socialism, especially since history tells me that Socialism is an idea that typically leads to evils like forced abortion and other atrocities associated with Communism that ultimately end in genocide. Take care and God bless.
Socialism and Communism are two totally different things, diametrically opposite interpretations of Marxist theory, with the former also drawing extensively on the English labour movement. Democratic socialism is what has enabled the working class to prosper in the West.
Ok everyone is ignoring the fact that this Church was CLOSED. They were there illegally, celebrating a “Mass” that was neither approved nor valid.
It was a valid Mass. The Priest has valid orders and is in communion with the local Bishop and under the jurisdiction of the PCED.
A mass celebrated unlawfully by trespass on private property…
The right of private property stands in scale to the proportion of other rights. In particular, it can be suspended in the service of a greater right. This is straight Rerum Novarum.
A parking lot vs. Worship of the Divine Creator…..
Or are you just a sick secular legal positivist?
It doesn’t matter. The building is owned lawfully by a private owner who gave the congregation every opportunity to buy it. One religious group’s wishes cannot overrule civil law.
It actually does matter, and you seemingly have absolutely no background in the social encyclicals. You are a legal positivist. Sick.
Papal encyclicals carry no legal weight whatsoever. The idea that one tiny religious group’s desires should trump the rule of law is absurd.
A canonical mass offered in a storage unit is a valid Mass. Before we had a place for TLM, there was a TLM offered in a storage unit for those who wanted the Mass of the Ages. Yep.
Obviously Islamic terrorists were behind this desecration, who else would behave this way?
Err – the priest and worshippers were trespassing on private property. Therefore, the police acted entirely lawfully.
Don’t freak out everybody. The Western media is covering this:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/08/03/images-of-a-priest-being-dragged-from-a-condemned-st-rita-church-anger-the-french-right/
There is more to this story. While it is VERY sinful for the eviction to take place during Holy Mass, this was actually a protest that was going on. It wasn;t a regulalry scheduled mass. Who’s willing to bet it was especially timed to have it being said right when they were being asked to leave.
The tennants Gallicans no longer owned the church building and it had been slated for destruction for over a year.
Church buildings close all the time in the big cities of the west. It happens all the time in the States….just look at Boston.
There is clearly more to this story. Why hasn’t the local Bishop made space for the TLM somewhere close by? or maybe he did? Did anyone research this?
This whole thing is being politicised in France. Smells wrotten – on both sides.
I suspect it is equally sinful to use the Mass as an excuse to conduct an act of defiance of justified law enforcement. If there’s a scandal here, it is that the priest and congregation used Mass as a means to demonize local police.
I concur. That’s basically what I was getting at.
GEORGE SOROS ADMITS HE IS BEHIND MUSLIM INVASION OF EUROPE = DR. EVIL = http://donegrandee.charmingphotostream.me/0256c6da69d06a = EUROPE NEEDS TO RECLAIM IT’S CHRISTIAN HERITAGE.
“In 1988, it was made available to Dominique Philippe, the self-designated “archbishop” of a so-called “Gallican” community.”
My question is: Who owns the church building? If it were to be demolished with the owners’ approval,, have the congregation been previously told to vacate the place? Could this be a case of trespassing?
And what has the legitimate archbishop of Paris to say on this matter?
Well, somebody wanted to prove a point. It’s not like the priest was saying mass continually 24/7. “They” could have waited between masses, but nooooo, they wanted a show.
The Mass was deliberately timed as a protest against eviction – not the police’s fault.
They should have waited for mass to end and then usher them out of the parish.
The mass would doubtless have been followed by other offices as part of a constant vigil, as in the church in Boston.
The French Revolution revisited. I wonder if the Paris gendarme have considered busting into the local Islamic House of Terror?
Let’s see. There’s a mosque down the street occupying a building whose owners have sold for a municipal parking lot. Jam full every Friday for prayers; yet the “community” has lost all appeals. So the riot police, on a warm Friday eve, storm-troop in an drag the ministering imman out and slam lock the door.
Won’t happen.
Won’t. Not only because the dhimmified ruling set wouldn’t have the wherewithal to trespass their, not so subtle, capitulation to Sharia, but because few Muslim “communities” would ever find themselves in such a fix. Unless leasing from a fellow member, the community rarely rents mosque space. Such worshiping folks buy, they purchase. Funds flood from abroad, into every city and hamlet of the globe, to raise bulwarks for Islamic prayers. Money pours in – mostly from the Saudis – to purchase, to renovate, or simply to build.
So, as was mentioned, where was the Catholic funding flood? Didn’t Peter’s Pence have a few coins to spare.
The Saudis only fund hardline Salafists. Modern liberal normative Islam faces the same everyday struggles as Christianity. Mosques have sometimes closed as congregations have preferred to go to superior facilities elsewhere.
Again, let’s see. The ration of *Salafist* mosques to *normative* mosques (both in terms of locations and membership) is?
And, let me get this straight:
*Modern, liberal* Islam is *normative* to (against) what? Certainly not the origins, the founding texts, the accumulative history of Islam, for the what would need to perform a deep exegesis of those texts, a historical analysis of that timeless, a reconstruction of its founding origins. After all that, what is located but not classical, orthodox, historic Islam – of which Salafist is it present dominant manifestation.
A modern, liberal Islam is a non-starter. For Islam to be liberal and modern it ceases to be. For Islam is function it cannot in accept Western categories (concepts or methodologies); once it does the incorporation (the enfolding of Western ways and thought) it pulls the spring and detonates the dissolution bomb. Classical, orthodox, historic will not permit that to happen without taking all of us down and under.
Salafism, or Wahhabism, only really came into existence in the mid-19th century. A much more liberal and far less austere Sufi Islam was predominant hitherto – and most modern liberal Islam bears a closer relationship to that than to Salafism – although increasingly Sunni Islam has become influenced by Saudi-funded Salafism. Normative Islam, however, has progressed and adapted in much the same way as Christianity (with the exception of hardline Baptists, Methodists and some trad Catholics).
Suggest reading review linked below Review quite good. The book much more. Though the focus is “islamic” Spain the subject pertains. The meme of a historic liberalizing Islam can’t even claim three legs on a stool.
http://gatesofvienna.net/2016/08/the-fairy-tale-of-al-andalus/
““This is a complete shock.” National Assembly Member Fréderic Lefebvre is now calling on the Pope to save the church from demolition.”
Don’t hold your breath, Fred.
This church had dwindling congregations, so the Catholic Church sold it for 3 million euro. The guy who bought it wants to build apartments (not a parking lot). This is a trend across Europe, as mass attendance continues to decline, the local bishops consolidate parishes and sell off empty churches, making a fortune at the same time. Most of the time the churches are listed buildings, so they are converted to offices or houses, instead of demolished. In this case it wasn’t of architectural significance. No one is persecuting these people, and churches nearby are only too glad to see them on a Sunday. Stop pretending they’re victims. The more you exaggerate, the less people are inclined to believe you.
Dear Julia, At first i thought that it was the Mayor who owned Saint Rita’s church, which is common under a french law dating back to 1905. However it seems that the church was owned by the association of Catholic and Apostolic Chapels.
Sorry but your assumption is unfounded. The congregation is not dwindling in any sense where Priests are telling the truth. Liberal Cum Bya parishes are dying but so be it.
Um,–they’re not Catholic. They separated from the Church quite some time ago. Not Catholic at all.
False, They were given canonical status when founded by Archbishop LeFebvre, that has not changed. Please learn before you type ignorance.
Bergoglio is lying when he says that all religions want peace and that there is no war between religions.
That brutal action against this Catholic priest is contrary to the Marxist law that is practiced in France which protects squatters who take over other people’s property they do not own. That is, if the invaders had been Muslims and not this Catholic group trying to prevent the demolition of a Church, they would have respected their rights as squatters the “right of invasion.”
Total and utter rubbish. France is a secular state in which all religions are equal. Had it been a mosque in the same circumstances, the outcome would have been identical.
Did the police decide to show up at Mass time? I think it is more likely that they went inthere to celebrate Mass at the time scheduled tor the building to be closed/demolished/etc. I have no idea if that was how it happened, but it looks like it since the reporters were inside waiting for it… Lots of cammeras inside… I don’t think that is good. Using the Mass like that. The Mass is much more important than the building. They could have had the last Mass earlier. I don’t know what their objective was, what they tryid to gain, but I can’t think of why they would do that.
On the side of the police… Well that was so stupid on their part. Not simply waiting a little for it to be over. Showing no respect and using disproportionate force. Obviously not something they would have done at a Mosque. And all of that is a big problem. I was going crazy watching the video. Wondering if they would come up to the altar and desecrate Jesus in the Eucharist. And thinking, that if I’d been there, and they would’ve done that… Oh man!!!
As much as anything this was a very deliberate statement of contempt by the French state, the police state pitted against a religion. SWAT/riot police employment would never have been considered, had this been a mosque.
It is open warfare on Catholics from both sides…
i really don’t understand any of this… the supposed comments of the Pope, or why a mass was going on in a building to be demolished. . . etc. etc. etc.
The Mass was held as part of a protest against the lawful eviction of these squatters from the building on behalf of its lawful owner.
hmm. I see. well, there must be much background information nonetheless. but one wonders, couldn’t they wait and negotiate? until the mass was over? God trumps the law. moreover, couldn’t priests help to negotiate and find a common ground? you can tell I need details. as well, why would the Pope make such boorish comments. i tell ya, they need me there.
SHAME….SHAME …..SHAME
Do the French people need more proof that the French government and authorities are turning against the native French? Bill Clinton is accused of getting 5.5 million dollars from muslim organization that teaches sharia in the West. Could something similar be happening in France? Do not be afraid when the traitors accuse you of being with the far right but be proud because the far right are the true patriots.
http://www.catholic.com/blog/jimmy-akin/martyrdom-is-more-than-being-killed-for-your-faith
It seems the French state, in this case the French police, have less tolerance towards Christian culture yet seems to tolerate Muslim culture on a much more abiding scale possibly due to a more inclining fear factor of the latter. The French police have known of recent Muslim radicals but do not arrest them or follow them, and we have seen the evil consequences in the deadly attacks in Nice and the recent death of Catholic priest Father Jacques Hamel at the hands of Muslim radicals. Yet the pollice are quick to arrest compliant priests in an abrupt manner; they could have been more gentle at least. Plus, the French police should not have violated their own laws; in this case using teargas in a small enclosed space which is illegal in France as the article points out; whilst the parishioners were obedient and submissive to the their rough apprehension is totally absurd and unnecessary. These police officers were ‘brave’ but among the meek and docile. Would they have dared to interrupt prayer in a Muslim mosque? Certainly a not because they know the current tensions in France are high and recent terrorist attacks certainly have them on guard . In either case, the French police really need to give the French people more protection and be tolerant and respectful to all in an equal degree not just to some due to fear factors and possible repercussions from radicals.
It seems the French state, in this case the French police, have less tolerance towards Christian culture yet seems to tolerate Muslim culture on a much more abiding scale possibly due to a more inclining fear factor of the latter. The French police have known of recent Muslim radicals but do not arrest them or follow them, and we have seen the evil consequences in the deadly attacks in Nice and the recent death of Catholic priest Father Jacques Hamel at the hands of Muslim radicals. Yet the police are quick to arrest compliant priests in an abrupt manner; they could have been more gentle at least. Plus, the French police should not have violated their own laws; in this case using teargas in a small enclosed space which is illegal in France as the article points out; whilst the parishioners were obedient and submissive to the their rough apprehension is totally absurd and unnecessary. These police officers were ‘brave’ but among the meek and docile. Would they have dared to interrupt prayer in a Muslim mosque? Certainly a not because they know the current tensions in France are high and recent terrorist attacks certainly have them on guard . In either case, the French police really need to give the French people more protection and be tolerant and respectful to all in an equal degree not just to some due to fear factors and possible repercussions from radicals.