Browse Our Articles & Podcasts

Approval of Blessings for Homosexual Couples Equivalent to Founding a New Church

Cardinal Reinhard Marx, Archbishop of Munich-Freising, Chairman of the German Bishops’ Conference and Commission of the Bishops’ Conferences of the European Community (ComECE), was well aware that with his “yes” to blessings of homosexual couples, he had crossed a red line.

In contrast to the proposal of Bishop Franz-Josef Bode at the beginning of the year, according to Marx’s view, there should be no general regulation. Rather, it should be checked in the parishes themselves, whether such blessings “in individual cases” may be possible.

But this limitation is a mere tactical window dressing. Cardinal Marx paves the way for any progressivist parish priest to make such blessings without having to justify himself theologically with a document and exposing himself to criticism. Whether different arrangements are made from parish to parish does not change the fact that Cardinal Marx considers (practiced) homosexuality to be harmless, at least under certain conditions.

With this step, Cardinal Marx basically intends to found a new Church. For the following reasons:

  1. Catholic sexual morality clearly states that the sexual act is morally licit only within a validly contracted marriage between a man and a woman. A Catholic is required to agree to this principle, even if he does not comply with it. With the de facto legalization of practiced homosexuality by Cardinal Marx, this principle is cancelled, in general and not only with regard to homosexuality. The binding Catholic sexual morality is being (largely) abolished by Cardinal Marx. Therefore, a Church that follows Cardinal Marx’s instructions would no longer be a Catholic but a new church.
  2. Whether blessings for homosexual couples take place or not should be made at the local level, i.e. in the parishes. But because the admission of these blessings implies a completely new moral theology, different parishes would have different moral theologies. The moral teaching is derived from the Faith. Marx’s acceptance of homosexual blessings leads to a condition where different “Catholic” parishes would follow a different faith and a different morality, which is not possible from the Catholic point of view. The unity of the Church would obviously be destroyed at parish level.
  3. If one goes to the level of the Universal Church, it becomes even more obvious that Marx’s proposal is anti-Catholic. Does he believe that other bishops or bishops’ conferences will follow his suggestion? Probably not. By adopting a new morality, a new faith, and new rites for the blessings, (at least part of) the Catholic Church in Germany would be separated from the ecclesial world community.
  4. Cardinal Marx still owes an explanation as how he wants to make his project attractive to the so-called “mother-tongue” Catholics. These are the Catholics with a migration background, i.e., Poles, Croats, Portuguese, etc. that live in Germany. They are not only more conservative than the average Catholic of German descent, but in many places, specially big cities, they already make up the majority of the faithful.

One can hardly imagine that Cardinal Marx did not think about the above mentioned points in moral-theological and ecclesiological terms.

Most likely, these objections do not bother him because he is already seeking to form a new kind of Church. This was made clear in an interview in early 2015 with the American journal of the Jesuits, America.

In that interview, Cardinal Marx shows understanding for homosexual partnerships, for “wild marriages”, for remarried divorcees, and for the demands to change the doctrine of the sacraments. Already at that time it was obvious that Cardinal Marx sought a comprehensive reform of the Church’s teaching on sexual morality.

In his interview with America, Cardinal Marx even goes much further.

He advocates also a declerization of power at the Roman Curia. Lay people should assume important ministries, even presidencies of councils, congregations (i.e., the Vatican ministries) and other administrative units. Women should be favored as part of these structural reforms. It must finally be recognized that one of the “signs of the times” is the “emancipation of women.” The Church must now accomplish this. (The term “emancipation of women” comes from the conceptual arsenal of left-wing social policy and is based on the ideology of the class struggle.)

These statements make it clear that the Church is not perceived by the liberal reform Catholics primarily as the guardian of the truth, but as a meeting place where all people, no matter what they believe in, gather. This can only work, if the Church adapts herself to the spirit of the times and has borders as open as possible. The boundaries between Catholic and non-Catholic are blurred as much as possible (but not so much that it could jeopardize Church Tax revenues). To achieve this a weakening of the priestly and episcopal ministry is necessary.

In such a Church, truth or fidelity to the Gospels can not be at the center of attention. That is not explicitly stated in the interview, but that is the inevitable consequence. For the truth to be armed against constant attacks, it must be hierarchically constructed on the basis of the Sacrament of Holy Orders.

Should this process of deformation of the Church continue long enough, an informal web of dioceses and parishes would emerge without any definite territorial boundaries, without defined teachings and without defined faith. Pseudo-democratic bodies and charismatic figures would dictate a way of life that wiould replace moral teachings and which is no longer bound to fixed religious truths. The Church would then not look much different from the utopian post-structuralist society of the sixty-eight revolutionaries.

176 thoughts on “Approval of Blessings for Homosexual Couples Equivalent to Founding a New Church”

  1. If Reinhard Marx isn’t a heretic, can there really be heretics any longer, at least in the eyes of the gang now running the Vatican?

  2. Such men do not believe in the concept of objective truth. They may be Catholic in their pay-packet but they are not Catholic in their souls.

    • And without criticism from Rome, doesn’t this in effect make the Catholic Church a new church under Bergoglio? The author, I believe noted that other Bishops wouldn’t follow suit, but I’m not sure why he’d believe that. But even so, isn’t unity in faith a mark of the Catholic Church, that no group of people are excluded from part of the faith? Even if only Cardinal Marx’s area did this, if it is allowed, it changes the whole church.

      • Christianity, i.e. fidelity to the teachings of Christ, is another traditional mark of the Catholic Church, but since our cardinals and pope are letting that go by the wayside, why not abandon unity too?

        • True, the man is pope of a Not One, Not Holy, Not Catholic church. Is it apostolic? I guess. Is it Apostolic still in China, honestly just wondering?

    • TR22 alludes to an important consideration here below my post. Normally, it would be nothing but idle curiosity to ask about a man’s sexual inclinations. But if Vatican regulars, for example, suddenly started pushing to remove arson from the list of serious sins, it might be prudent to inquire if any of them are pyromaniacs. Isn’t it equally prudent to investigate the possibility that prelates now pushing to enshrine sodomy in a list of virtues might themselves be sodomites?

      • This is the issue no one will discuss openly. I think it is fair and just to start asking these men if they are homosexual. If they say yes then demand they leave the clergy. If they say no then private investigators need to follow them for a time .

        • Queerer than a stack of 3 dollar bills.

          Your last sentence is something I think we should build on. I fronted the issue to several some time ago. Yes, Cupich needs a tail on him, etc.

        • In fact, TR, this may be seen as an act of charity towards the many Catholics these villains are leading astray. But fidelity to the truth has to be our motive, not exposure for the sake of public ridicule. We have to make the case that a closet sodomite should no more be in charge of “explaining” the 6th Commandment than a kleptomaniac should manage a diocese’s museum collection of sacred vessels.

          • Oh Yes. This is not about being salacious or detraction. This is about sunlight. The faithful have a right not to be oppressed by error and evil ideology.

            Would you want your kids having a pedophile for a teacher? Or a Nazi?

        • I know too many virtuous homosexuals (check out Eve Tushnet’s writings) to make a blanket statement. Everything depends on whether they are chaste. And whether they agree with, accept, and preach the Church’s teaching that their orientation is, in fact, an objective disorder, a cross that they must bear and offer up the suffering. It’s like recovering alcoholics. If someone knows she is alcoholic and goes to AA and stays away from bars and other places where she might be tempted to drink, and stays sober, then I am not going to condemn her for being an alcoholic. We only have a problem if she actually drinks.

      • There can be absolutely no other reason. To feign disinterested compassion for ‘homosexual persons’ is sheer hypocrisy of the vilest kind. I suppose it’s somewhat akin to accusations of “hate speech”. And I’ve come to understand that a large percentage of those known by such labels as “homosexual activists” – aka homofascists), are sociopathic at minimum, and in probably not a few cases, psychopathic. This is evidenced by the profound, unrelenting hatred they direct towards, and their determination to utterly destroy anyone who, for whatever reason is slow to capitulate to the homosexualist juggernaut. But the reality is that, no one can persistently indulge in such vile perversions without losing all sense of self-worth. But rather than confront this truth and attempt to deal with it, they transfer the loathing they feel for themselves to others, and then claim to be the innocent victims of it. With these obviously sodomite clergy, including one who has been rewarded with a post in Vatican communications, homosexuality is their sole preoccupation – their one obsession. They are engaged in futile and ultimately self-destructive attempts to soothe their inner disorder and turmoil by desperately trying to get the whole Church to give it the O.K; to “get on board with it.” They really want us all to “accompany” them – on the road to perdition. They are very, very sick people indeed. Spiritually terminally ill.

        • Yours is an admirably concise and complete reply, Stewart. I infer from it that you are someone with academic expertise in either psychology or medicine. Regardless, morally your observations are spot on.

          • Yes, you and Stewart are right. I was caught up for several years in a reputedly orthodox parish run by a habited order. They talked orthodoxy from the ambo but privately bragged about disobedience and other things. Eventually they showed their teeth, ganging up on me and threatening me as gay men so often do to women. The malignant narcissist pastor sent me threatening letters which got him transferred after I sent one of them to the bishop. Meanwhile, the order has a juggernaut of a PR machine run by the laity who insist everything is just perfect because the Masses are said prettily, confessions are heard for hours every day, the altar rail is in use, etc., therefore it must have been my fault. No mention of why the parish lost 25% of their members and 30% of their giving in 6 years. The worst part of this may be that this parish is a destination parish for supposedly orthodox CCD classes so there are several hundred children who are being indoctrinated into God knows what.

          • ” threatening letters which got him transferred”

            Got him transferred so he could apply his trade elsewhere…

          • He is in another diocese, in a job where he is mainly working with young men in his order. And now that I know the truth it makes some earlier incidents there more clear, such as when a priest related an anecdote about how he and some others ganged up on a woman at a religious conference, ridiculing her faith and the joke they played on her was to slyly call her by an old-fashioned name for an effeminate homosexual. It’s a feature of gay men that they joke about others being gay who manifestly are not.

          • Consider, GG, that you should perhaps reveal the identity of this habited order so that others can be forewarned. Some reading these posts may even be contributing money to the order simply because they don’t know the truth that you present here. Perhaps we’ve all been too quiet for too long; perhaps we’ve misinterpreted warnings about gossiping and slandering others. After all, if you notice your neighbor is buying a lot of fertilizer for his 1/2 acre lot, that he has many visitors with long beards and mostly unpronounceable names, and that he has a rented U-Haul truck in the driveway, it’s hardly unjust to drop a dime and call the local constabulary.

          • I dare not say because of the threats. A lot is at stake for people who are using the Church as a smokescreen so they can live together in a priory. I believe I could have a fatal accident by going too public. I have talked to numerous parishioners and they are unconcerned as long as the priests are not raping children or shunning and slandering them. I asked very pointedly how is it not a near occasion of sin for them to be living together if this would be a scandal if lay people did this. We are being required to assume that they would be somehow encouraging each other in their chastity. This is supported by the same rigid system of favoritism that we see in the Vatican.

          • So, I gather from what you write, that the group in question is made up of authentic sodomite thugs. Your initial statement that this organization also runs a lay group reminded me of Regnum Christi, a cliquish and secretive lay group that used to be hooked up with the Legion of Christ, back in the good ole’ days of the arch criminal Macial Maciel (I have a very orthodox relative at a parish where Regnum C were once strong, and she really didn’t like them). Maybe it still exists, but we were led to believe the Vatican had reformed the Legion after Maciel, its founder, was exposed for the monstrous fraud he always was. Also, I don’t know if Legionnaires ever lived in priories, only that, even after the reform, there have been confirmed instances of sinful activity in the highest echelons of its ranks. It should never have been “reformed”; it should have been disbanded.

          • The lay people involved are just regular parishioners though some happen to be third order. Some of these, the little old lady contingent, have no idea what is going on, they just love the cachet of the all male sanctuary, altar rail, communion kneeling, orthodox preaching, confessions scheduled daily, as it was before the great change. Heaven, they think. Though not so behind the veneer. It’s an old order. They celebrated an anniversary in the last few years and I pointedly asked whether their founder would have approved of all this.

            I’m signing off now, sorry. This is all very upsetting and I need to look forward. God bless you. I wish we could have tea.

          • Same here, GG. I am sure we could swap some interesting war stories. I assume your comment about FSSP comes from an abundance of caution rather than personal experience. I’ve never heard of even a breath of scandal associated with them. (I think I can now guess the group you have in mind.)

          • I only have spoken with a worker at the FSSP seminary. No place is immune. But the scandal only results when something becomes public. I am beginning to wonder if having the closeted ones is okay as long as they do behave themselves, we know they have always been in the Church, doing what they are supposed to do. I think the problem occurs when they are in a group as in a priory and then they act like fifth grade girls.

            Augustine wrote about this, I was told by a historian and teacher of patristics. I don’t believe an order with gay Masters in its past can possibly have improved.

            I’m really signing off and will go pray the stations of the Cross. I like Fr. Hardon’s one.

          • Isn’t that why we have anonymous cover names here on Disqus threads? How would anyone know it was you? We do not even know your location (unless you revealed it on some other thread). Sad to say, there are probably many parishes where what you describe could be going on. I’m doubtful about anyone’s ability to trace your comments back to your real-life identity.

        • And this raises the question, how did he advance to such a powerful position if your argument is true? Not a problem, because in all likelihood, in our present ecclesiastical “concrete situation”, sexual deviancy would be the surest passport to career advancement, i.e. he’d be vulnerable to blackmail.

          • This, reputedly, is at the heart of the problem. Bergoglio cunningly surrounds himself with those who are not without ability in various regards, but who are, nonetheless, heavily compromised. This, naturally, makes them “reliable”. According to the late Archbishop Lefebvre (RIP), the ecclesiastical Freemasons operate in precisely the same manner. They talent spot, flatter their targets with their observations re-their exceptional capabilities, and generously offer them assistance with their progress ‘up the ladder’. After a certain amount of upward mobility, the Masons reveal the truth as to whom these dupes owe their success. By this time, it’s too late. They either stick with the plan, or they’re effectively finished.

          • Oh my word! It’s a universal practice. Sadly our current “Vicar of Christ” reads from the same playbook. But did not Our Lady tell us, through Fr. Stefano Gobbi and others, that (Ecclesiastical) Freemasonry would reach even to the highest levels in the Church. Now, I am not attempting to suggest that Jorge Mario Bergoglio is card carrying member of the Lodge. Since it is a secret society, it’s members don’t publicize the fact. But is a widely acknowledged fact that the Freemasons of Argentina and Italy rejoiced when he was maneuvered into the “top spot” and have heaped praise upon him on a few other occasions since then.

        • “They are engaged in futile and ultimately self-destructive attempts to soothe their inner disorder and turmoil by desperately trying to get the whole Church to give it the O.K; to “get on board with it.” ”

          Spot-on. I have always thought this is the dynamic that’s going on with so many pro-abortion activists. I’ve thought it ever since about 30 years ago, when I saw a TV interview with Kate Michelman, long-time president of NARAL. She talked about how, years before, she was a divorced mother of several children who got pregnant out of wedlock and got an abortion. As I looked into her eyes, I could see the pain and the guilt. And I realized that she was spending her whole life being a full-time activist to try to get the whole culture, a chorus of 300 million voices, to tell her, yes, Kate, what you did is okay, we approve, we’re on board with you. As long as there was even one single person out here objecting to it, causing her deeply suppressed conscience to rise up and trouble her, she felt as if her very life were in danger. And she would do everything in her power to shut that voice of conscience up — and she thought she could do that by shutting all of us up.

          • You are quite correct; it is precisely the same thing. There is a passage in the Old Testament, (in the Book of Numbers, I think), which states: “Let us lie in wait for the virtuous man, since he annoys us and opposes our way of life.” Regardless of how charitable we are ourselves in publicly defending life, be it in the areas of homosexuality, the bizarre phenomenon of transgenderism, abortion etc. they react as though we have held a mirror up to their souls and, however fleetingly, they catch a glimpse of their profound inner disorder, and they react violently; sometimes even physically. But as we all know, all these things become accepted, established and ultimately exalted a because of a demonic agenda for which the media is the mouthpiece. Therefore it’s not merely those unhappy individuals who are personally afflicted by these evils, but increasingly large sections of the public at large who think they command the moral high ground from which they indulge in their nauseating virtue signaling in the most belligerent fashion.

    • Be careful with your words. Luther was a better Catholic than them …. when he *was* a Catholic. Once he left the Church, he helped create the string of heresies that eventually got us to this place.

      • With transgenderism right along behind it — objectively, an even worse phenomenon. People are in denial that every single one of the 16 trillion cells in their body has EITHER two X chromosomes (XX), OR two Y chromosomes (XY). And no amount of hormone shots, body mutilations or weird pronouns can change that. If you are male, every cell in your body screams it. If you are female, every cell in your body screams it. The idea that you can change your gender just by wishing/declaring it so is as ludicrous — and as dangerous — as insisting that the whole world agree with you that 2 and 2 really do make 5.

        And here is something that really, really bugs me: The clergy, in their silence, keep acting as if John Paul II’s Theology of the Body doesn’t even exist. How could something so huge — and so desperately needed, more so with every passing day! — be so completely ignored?

  3. The plain truth perfectly articulated.
    But I would venture to offer another point. Rather than merely “…a Church that follows Cardinal Marx’s instructions would no longer be a Catholic but a new church,” I would venture that a Church which declines to rebuke and correct publicly Cardinal Marx’s instructions would no longer be a Catholic but a new church.
    That is where we are unless Pope Francis assumes the responsibility of his office.
    If he were not to do so what does he demonstrate about himself?
    I am afraid we crossed the line on March 13, 2013.
    How do faithful and informed Catholics process our understanding of the papacy after this. This is what the Bergoglians mean when they say the “reforms” are to be irreversible.
    The papacy debased by a pope…what is the papacy after this?

  4. He might be a Cardinal but he sure ain’t Catholic. If he wants to start a new church he should renounce Catholism and get on with it. I’m tired of gettin pulled down by these unfaith Cardinals and Bishops.

  5. Sorry to inform you Cardinal Marx, but neither you nor anyone else can change the words of God to suit this corrupt modern society. Sin cannot be called virtue. The bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Time for many clerics to read Saint Thomas Aquinas. Time to go back and read the Bible in the Clementine Vulgate instead of the watered down versions common today. A loose translation can more easily be misconstrued to mean anything you want. I’m sure there’s an older approved German version also.

  6. Serious question. How should the average Novus Ordo pewsitter react to this if it should happen in the US? I live in the Diocese of Savannah, Georgia. If my bishop starts blessing homosexual unions, how should I proceed? The nearest SSPX parish is 150 miles away in Atlanta so not really an option. Let’s assume that all of the local Catholic parishes where I live are on board with the blessing of sodomy.

    Do I:

    a) continue to attend my local parish as if nothing has happened?

    b) continue to attend my local parish but put no money in the collection basket?

    c) forsake my Catholic parish and attend the local Orthodox Church instead since I’ve been told that in cases of extreme necessity a Catholic is permitted to receive the sacraments there?

    d) abandon Church going until the situation improves or an “underground” priest arrives in town?

    It seems to me that we’re rapidly approaching terra incognita for the average pewsitter since nothing remotely like this has happened in my lifetime. A similar situation might arise if my bishop sends around a pastoral letter stating that Humanae vitae has been “updated” and artificial contraception is now permitted in certain situations.

    Where do we go? To whom do we go? Especially like to hear from the clergy who contribute to this blog.

    • Where do we go? To whom do we go?

      I imagine this is what the Israelites questioned when the temple was destroyed and they were led away from their land. After all this, it seems God is going to strip the Church from the world and make it hidden for a time.
      I don’t know. Travel to a priest who still believes; receive the Sacraments once a month if possible. Keep the Sunday holy outside of attending the mass of an apostate. Other than that I’ve no idea.

      • Emigrate.

        I’ve done it for temporal reasons, the spiritual seem no less demanding.

        Thank god I have a good FSSP parish and generally good diocese as well.

    • At this point all bets are off. A chapel in your house must be created and maintained. The condition in the Church is only going to get darker and darker until the Church goes underground (5 years? 10 years? ….). When homo blessings or woman priests come into the Church buildings it is time to leave.

          • That makes sense except I cannot see any diocese that will refuse to do what Rome dictates. Africans, maybe….

          • I agree, but there are better and worse dioceses. A real conflict will occur when a very sound diocese is given a faith-wrecking bishop.

          • Chilling words. My own diocese is lacking a bishop right now. Thank you for the reminder to pray hard for the Holy Spirit’s input into the selection of our new bishop!

          • No it isn’t. In fact, it is gravely sober.

            People move ALL the TIME.

            I have a number of times. For money or for a better place to live. In fact, our entire culture is transient and people relocate constantly for many reasons. Essentially with one exception.

            For their Christian faith.

            Many folks will sit still while their faith and the faith of their children rots right out from inside them.


            Many of our ancestors moved at great expense and at great personal cost for religious reasons. Are financial advancement and better weather now the only legitimate reasons for a relocation of self and family?

            In fact, the parish I attend is chock full of immigrants who came to the region for the parish. It is well known all over the country and we have numerous families who have moved here because they didn’t want to raise their children in the doctrinal and moral chaos they found in Catholic parishes elsewhere. And many struggle for some time to find work and homes.

            Our priorities are all goosed up.

            I praise God for my parish. I have to drive about 1 1/2 hours to get there but I’m blessed I have it at all.

            Sometimes, in fact, historically-speaking, MANY times, people do indeed need to flee to Keep the Faith and to foster the faith in the lives of their children. If it is necessary, it is worth it.

          • Joe:

            I lost my post somehow.

            But in a nutshell, no, not cavalier at all. I’m dead serious. Folks have been moving and migrating for many reasons forever. Better money, better weather, why not for the security of their own salvation and especially for their children?

            They used to, especially to this country.

            MANY people move to our specific region because of our parish. Many! NIdahoCatholic who posted above in this thread is one of them. It’s FSSP and a wonderful example of a vibrant parish under the leadership of solid priests who love the Lord and are true pastors, which means they bring the TRUTH to their parish…even when it hurts. It’s an awesome place.

    • kiwi:

      The North German Catholics had this very issue to deal with circa 1550’s. Valid priests, valid Mass, wholly invalid taught doctrine.

      We are getting there, very close to another exodus of heretics.

      Do your best, and if the thing really goes south, drive a long distance or emigrate to another part of the country where the faith is fully taught and modeled.

      Didn’t you emigrate of NZ to here, once?

      God’s blessings!!

    • To protest by withholding your money from the collection would accomplish nothing, obviously. Who these days, would notice or even if you were to do that, they simply wouldn’t care. Attending Orthodox liturgies would be a legitimate option in cases of dire need, since their sacraments are valid. But It’s not something which most of us could not do without great discomfort. Maybe our next destination is – the catacombs.

      • Yes, it possibly does. The annual income of an important English diocese has dropped by over 20% per annum over the last four years for which accounts are available. It has called a diocesan synod to address the drop in lay membership/participation, which is perhaps reflected in the falling income figures. The official reason for the synod is apparently to capture a collective ‘vision’ for the future. What it really needs is a truth and reconciliation commission before there is any hope of moving forward. The drop in income just happened to coincide with the culmination of a pastoral renewal program with a theologically illiterate title, which reminds me of this Marxist twaddle: I am not suggesting a direct cause and effect for the fall in revenue, merely an interesting correlation.

        • Church in CT USA declined from 325 thousand weekly church goers in 1997 to ONE hundred twenty five thousand in 2016 to 122 thousand in 2017. Less than a hundred thousand left in five yrs or so here in CT.. upcoming …. . You think Bergoglio Francis and amoris latita crowd ,with Lutheran statues and stamps in the Vatican apostates would learn from the collapsing main line former protestant dying Parishes under Tutu and Spong of Anglican Episcopal dying Western churches.

          • Hard to say. The culture in general is becoming less and less church-going. Hard to say which is the chicken and which is the egg. But certainly the Church in many places is missing the “feel” of the sacramental — what Chesterton or Newman (sorry, can’t remember which) called the “sacramental vision” or what I’ve also heard called the “Incarnational worldview” — i.e., a real belief in, and sense of, the sacred and supernatural. Miracle is real. If, day after day and week after week, you are in a predominantly materialistic (non-sacral) milieu, a milieu that chokes and strangles the sense of the supernatural, you can lose the capacity to believe in the divine — and of course that would include the miracle that is the Eucharist!

        • It’s an interesting case that you cite, and demonstrates that some impact can be made through a concerted team effort. However, no amount of this is going to purge the diocese of the sodomite detritus that compels people to resort to such measures. And it is impossible to believe that the diocese has not been made fully aware of the reason for dwindling attendances and income. Their “synod” is surely nothing more than a means to sidestep the real issues and carry on pretending. It reeks of hypocrisy.

    • When I am travelling and have to go to a Mass in a different church to fulfil my obligation, if it is a church in which heresy is openly preached and/or liturgical abuses are practised, then I will not put money in the plate and neither will I receive Holy Communion. I will also endeavour to challenge the priest on any falsehoods he has taught e.g. “Of course these days we don’t really believe that the bread is the Body of Christ – its only a spiritual presence.” was the shocker I heard a few months ago.

      When I encounter situations like that, even if I have been to Confession earlier that day, I generally find that I am not in a suitable spiritual state to receive Holy Communion and to do so would thus be an occasion of sin.

    • Simply pray the rosary and get to a theologically orthodox catholic mass when you can and go to confession when you can to a sound priest. I would be really loathe to attend a mass where such heresies abounded. Perhaps take a spiritual communion while connecting online to a live traditional mass. Unchartered waters…

        • I attend Byzantine (Ruthenian) Catholic Church a couple of times a month. I would attend more but it’s over an hour away. If my NO parish gets bad I will attend there exclusively. There are no TLM in my area.

        • The Ukrainian Catholic liturgy is beautiful! I miss certain prayers from the Roman Mass, but there are other prayers in the Ukrainian that the Roman doesn’t have. Both have their beauties. But I think there is probably not as much heresy afoot among the Ukrainian clergy! I don’t know for sure, would have to research it further. Maybe someone here can speak to that.

      • I would be loathe to miss Mass on Sunday, no matter how flawed the offering of that Mass might be. As long as its valid, Mass is Mass. Don’t slip into Donatism.

    • You can still assist at the Lil’ Licit Liturgy and keep the Faith.

      I have done if for over forty years

      As Saint Vincent of Lerins taught ,such things as you describe is the way God tests us to see if we love Him.

      It makes no sense at all to try and escape into schism or sedevacantism for Jesus established only His Church. Period.

      There is never justification for a schism or an excuse to flee the field of battle into sedevacanstim

      • RIGHT ON.

        WE who hold the faith CANNOT, MUST NOT leave.

        Remain solid. The heretics will convert or leave. History has demonstrated it over and over.

    • I say support with your money formations in the Church that are clearly orthodox (FSSP, Benedictines of Mary, Queen of Apostles, etc.) and insistently beg that the proper formations send priests to your area. Deny all organizations like USCCB any funding of any kind. Pray the entire Rosary daily. Also support sites like 1P5 to the best of your financial ability. Find like-minded friends in your NO parish and form a “cell” that meets periodically for chat and that communicates regularly by e-mail (a “support group” if you will). Form your own conscience with books by (real) men like Fulton Sheen, Fr. Rutler, Cardinal Sarah, John Newman, Ronald Knox, etc. They are all readily available online now.

    • You live in the diocese of Savannah? Where? That’s the diocese in which I was confirmed and married and the one in which my parents still reside. The Cathedral in Savannah offers a Traditional Latin Mass as does St. Joseph’s in Macon (probably most traditional church in the diocese).

      I would totally see the Bishop-Emeritus being on board with “blessing” homosexual unions. I used to think the current Bishop was more orthodox, but he’s really not and has been recently connected to groups that include the infamous Fr. Bryan Massengale.

      • Yep. I don’t trust Hartmayer.

        I’m in Augusta. The former pastor of St. Joseph’s, Macon was my former pastor here at Most Holy Trinity in Augusta, Fr. Alan McDonald. A good priest. He was recently shipped out by Hartmayer and is now in some rural parish in south Georgia. I suspect but could be wrong, that this was a result of Fr. McDonald’s devotion to the traditional liturgy.

        • That’s depressing. I think I meet him the one time my wife and I attended Mass at St. Joseph’s. I just check on the Diocesan website and it looks like he’s now in Richmond Hill, which I am not sure I would describe as rural. I’ll pray that when the liberal Monsignor at my parent’s parish finally retires McDonald gets his gig.

          I personally know the priest who was the parochial vicar at St. Joseph’s and I know that he learned how to offer the Traditional Latin Mass before he left. I wonder if his transfer to St. Mary’s on the Hill was also connected to that. Move the priests who can offer the Latin Mass out of one of the few churches in the diocese where there is a high altar. I went to the ordination of the priest who is now the pastor at St. Joseph’s. He seemed solidly orthodox but in a post-Vatican II kinda way.

          • Yeah, we had managed to start a monthly Latin Mass in Augusta a couple of years ago, around 2015. It was usually offered by Fr. Dan Firmin who is from Augusta but is now the Vicar General of the diocese and resides in Savannah. From memory, we managed about 3 or 4 Masses in successive months. Attendance was good and we were starting to get some momentum. Then it stopped. Suddenly. No explanation. Nothing. It has never restarted and I doubt it ever will while we have Hartmayer.

            Then something interesting happened. About 6 months ago, the organizers of the Augusta Latin Mass sent me an email saying that the monthly Latin Mass would be restarting……but across the Savannah River in North Augusta which is in a completely different diocese; the Diocese of Charleston. This Mass is still going and is offered by a young, recently ordained priest. So we’re back in business and there is now a Latin Mass available once per month for the citizens of Augusta but we must cross the border into South Carolina to attend.

            This strengthens my suspicions that Hartmayer is a bad actor in this drama and was responsible for knifing the Augusta Latin Mass.

          • That wouldn’t surprise me. Though I am fairly certainly Fr. Firmin still offers Latin Mass in the Cathedral. I’ll have to check.

    • ‘Twas indeed, as you rightly say, Reinhardt Marx. Well, when we, as individuals, or as a body, separate ourselves from Rome, we are no longer Roman Catholic anyway. We have excommunicated ourselves. But I do seriously wonder if the likes of Marx have ever been faithful, conscientious Catholics. One thing about him though: his family name is hardly unfitting. I wonder if there’s a family relationship?

        • If I may be permitted to borrow from the erstwhile tennis “Superbrat”; “Surely you’re not serious! You CANNOT be serious! But I see that you are, indeed, deadly serious. I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised by anything the likes of Marx and his ilk do. Thanks for telling me. God bless.

    • “We are not a subsidiary of Rome” the heretic said on one occasion. Then when Bergoglio came out on his side in the heretical Synods on Adultery, it was “Thank God for the Pope”.

      • No, but increasingly as these men remain in the Church doing the damage they do, WE are looking more and more like a subsidiary of Canterbury.

    • What might he call his new Church? The Bavarian Congregation of Sodom might work – it should attract enough of Munich’s demimonde to fund a few churches via church tax.

      • He will call it the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church and many will follow him. Heretics always claim theirs is the true Church.

        And many follow them.

      • Perhaps. Mind you, didn’t Francis say he wanted a “synodal church” where each Conference would have its own rules etc.,? Marx will become Patriarch of the Teutonic Rite, and will involve priestesses, homosexual “marriages” and all sorts. He will no doubt incorporate a heavy Lutheran flavour and the Heresiarch Luther will be added to his national calendar as a Saint. That’s if he isn’t beaten by Rome!

  7. Earlier today I read – truly seriously, with considered thought and prayer – Fr. Z’s piece on the effort by some (many) to “queer” the Church. No surprise, it was a delicious (and thoughtful) take down of Frl James Martin (S.J., of course).

    His observation did go on a righteous warpath (necessarily so) against those of us who’ve been quite nasty towards Fr. Martin on his Twitter account. Been there. Senn that. Did that (?) . . well . .

    Fr. Z’s caution against not knowing the difference between warring against the wrong and being downright nasty towards wrongdoers was well-spoken, and ought to be well-received. Especially knowing – as some of us here too well do know – that suffering the agonies of homosexual inclination can be a lifelong crippler. Homosexuality is life’s great thwart this side of Eden.

    I get all of that. I do. Yet, the prohibition against nastiness is not an absolute one. It can’t be.

    Be charitable (in Truth) towards homosexual sufferers. Yes, do. Acknowledge the grace which is specialized in them, operative in their struggle towards victory. Offered up as a testimony (a sign) of the Holy Spirit working out the Mind of Christ in them for the good of all.

    Any victory over homosexulity – however appantly small – is an intercessory prayer for the Kingdom to Come.

    But when (Catholic) sufferers of homosexuality toss off the covering cloak of grace to be trampled upon –
    ground into the mud for the brickmakers of the Catholic Church of Queer – then off with the gloves.There comes a time to rope in Fr. Martin and Cardinal Marx on the bloody side of the pen for a bareknuckes fight!

    • SJs are not the only ones. There are other orders with members who are required to be deeply closeted, and they can be much more vicious because more is at stake for them. Look for the orders that seem too good to be true.

  8. Time for Pope Benedict and majority of red hat Cardinals to declare a SCHISM in.the faith. Such apostasies promoted by Germany , Austria ,low countries bishops , Vatican and unholy Jesuits etc..

    • At this point, I would not care if they had to wheel Papa Benedict into the papal apartments on life support. At least we would have a real pope.

      • I confess, I see little actual difference between the two.

        One GAVE us the other and has done NOTHING to rein in or chastise the product of his decision. Indeed, the opposite, he has supported him.

        The crisis predates Bergoglio: Bergoglio has merely exposed it in all its raw suppurating grandeur.

  9. I am almost to the point of going to one Mass (for my Sunday obligation) and holding up a protest sign at another to protest Pope Francis’ heretical “Amoris Laetitia,” the evil betrayal of Cardinal Zen/Chinese Catholic Church and now, THIS! You know, folks, ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. I am surprised no one has organized a protest at outside of St. Peter’s at a papal address, but I am emotionally already there!!

  10. These “gay blessings” of homosexual unions were being carried out in my church in Pleasanton, California by a deacon authorized by Fr Dan Danielson 20 years ago. You can google the story. After complaint letters to the then bishop failed to elicit a response, 50 parishioners surrounded the church where a lesbian couple blessing was about to take place in front of the tabernacle and, finally, the bishop was FORCED to halt the proceedings. A defiant Fr Danielson told the media he would continue the gay union blessings in private homes, not in church, and this priest went on to be a leading light in Oakland diocese. What Cardinal Marx is doing seems to be from the same playbook – we won’t bless rings… Yeah right… the rings were blessed hidden on the carnations the couple carried. It’s the exact same script and it’s not new. Just brazenly open.

    And BTW I am Novus Ordo and, yes, we do believe in the Eucharist as the source and summit of our faith and yes we do oppose homosexual blessings. I like this website but I tire of all the anti Novus Ordo comments. I love all the popes of my lifetime but I knew this one was a fraud as soon as he said “We talk too much about contraception and abortion….”

    • Mary Arnold, I can only speak for myself but I’ve been a NO Catholic all my life. I used to write my Pastor about crazy things going on and I wrote Fr. Z for advice, he told me to write my Bishop. I asked if I should go to the SSPX, he said no not really. And finally, after a couple yrs of this pope, I decided enough was enough; if he could do the things he’s doing, surely it couldn’t be so wrong if I went to SSPX. I couldn’t possibly have more empathy for Catholics attending a NO Mass but I would say that now is a good time to start exploring your options cause we’re in crazy land.

      • If people are so liturgy interested that they stay home on Sunday and watch a Latin Mass on TV rather than stoop to a NO Mass, then they are not craving the Eucharist; they are not hungering and needing the Bread of Angels. I was at a downtrodden rest home recently where some humble, holy, simple people brought the Bread of Life to poor Catholics in the home – people dying and in distressing disguises. Our priests cannot reach all these poor neglected people but these lay ministers of the Eucharist did and they were totally reverent and loving.

        It made me wonder – was not St Tarcisius a lay carrier of the Eucharist? Do not foresake the Church Melanie even in its forlorn, battered condition. Stay humble – yes some of the liturgies are pretty awful aesthetically (but so was Calvary). I love our good NO priests and I’m sticking with the Church.

        • It’s not merely the liturgy, Mary. It’s the people and culture. I’d rather drive 4 hours to a TLM than take my children to see the neo-protestant spectacle of grandma handing out the Eucharist, irreverent chitchatting right up until the beginning of mass, to the impossibility to pray in peace with all the movement and almost requirement to “participate” by repeating monotonous phrases that seem as if they were picked out of a Sunday School guidebook.
          Sorry, but there’s no way in hell I’m going to take my family to that.

          • I really can’t stand the sight of people receiving communion cafeteria style. Really wants to make me cry. Or the obligatory sign of peace at the most sacred part of the liturgy, when you want to pray with fervour. Or the people in lay clothing called to move around the altar and read the Bible. Or the impossibility of kneeling during consecration because the chairs are so closely spaced together as to make it impossible (common in Belgium).

          • “Or the impossibility of kneeling during consecration because the chairs are so closely spaced together as to make it impossible (common in Belgium).”

            Understandable, cuz, y’know, the churches are so jam packed with converts and large families of devout faithful…

        • I believe St. Tarcisius was an acolyte (which is a minor order) but the inscription by Pope St. Damasus I on his tomb compares him to the protomartyr St. Stephen, so he might have been a deacon.

        • With all respect to you and your good priests, and I hope many other good priests, of whom I know a few, really good and devoted in all aspects that they needs to be, – I must say that you make your point not stronger with saying “Stay humble – yes some of the liturgies are pretty awful aesthetically (but so was Calvary)”.
          Because there are anno 2018 just too many churches with no Catholic liturgy AT ALL. Just to mention the clowns ‘celebreting’ mass, the guitars and drums with the dancers at Altar,… etc… You just CANNOT say that in the way you’ve said. It is a fact that we now have a novus ordo Mass which a faithful Catholic still can and should attend, if there is no other way to attend the Holy Mass of all the times. But the very true is also that there are worldwide many novus ordo masses (without capital M) in the churches of RCC, which have just a little, if anything similar with the Holy Mass.
          Instead giving advice to others to ‘stay humble’ attending, in some cases nothing more than a show, I’ll be free to give you advice and say to you this: If your priest is truly good, (in what I really do not doubt), you should try to give him some advice and to encourage him to begin to learn Latin, and to think at least, in the first time to begin to celebrate the Holy Mass Ad Orientem.
          PS. And please remember that the celebrating of the Holy Traditional Latin Mass, is not just something about aesthetics. Which is btw. aesthetically beautiful, but it is about the proper way of the greatest celebration, and greatest satisfaction which man can give to God.
          With saying this, it is more that logical that celebrating of the Holy Mass in a PROPER way, after 2000 years in which Church were led and inspired by the Holy Spirit, – cannot be less than beautiful in aesthetically sense, too.

          • I really don’t care what language the Mass is in as long as the priest follows the order of Mass without “ad libbing,” and offers it reverently. And he needs to instruct his parishioners about reverence. For example, silence and reverence should be observed inside the sanctuary — including after the Mass has ended, when so many people want to chat; they need to save their chatting for outside the sanctuary. And he needs to instruct his flock about the sign of peace, what it means and the reverent way to offer it. And he needs to talk with the music director and prohibit music whose sing-songy melodies sound more like Sesame Street or Barney the Dinosaur than they do praise of the Lord God Almighty, Creator of the Universe.

          • The problem is, that many faithful people are able to go in the local Church only. And we can say “as long as…” but the problem is really more than huge, because with the inventing of NO rite all the doors were opened to, say, make it changeable as you wish (as priest). It is today even so, that we can say “make-it-your-own” what ever a Holy Mass was, – and certainly should be.
            With the rest of backsliding that we have in the Church anno 2018, caused by modernist destructive changes, it is a wonder above wonder there are any NO priests and parishes who and where the Holy Mass in celebrated in a worthy way.
            And the BIG question is,- for how long even they can proceed it in that way anymore?! Tomorrow, if not yesterday, they have (must) listen to their bishop, and don’t forget the people, who demand from such good and devoted priest to participate actively and even to bless the grave sin, with thanks to a.o., pastoral teaching of Amoris Laetitia and other anti-Catholic crap.
            And what then?
            The NO rite is purposely invented right for these times! And with one very special purpose: to undermine the true TLM rite, and the Catholic Church as whole. Of course not everyone, who was then not against but pro NO, was aware of that. Some responsible clergy at IIVC were just too weak, deceived, blackmailed, or whatever else. But certain people have had a very clear and definite plan with it.

    • WOW. I had no idea. Thank you for sharing this story with us, as profoundly disturbing as it is. Some of us have lived long in a bubble, having no idea this stuff had been going on for so long….
      Let us all keep praying for each other!!

  11. The schism led by German heretics is rapidly approaching.

    After all, you know, they represent the “true Church”, just like Arius, Mohammed, Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, Menno Simons, HVIII, et al did as well…

      • Why are you scared to embrace SSPX or other traditionalist? Or do you want to stick to the House of Horrors out of Christian compassion?

      • It actually would be.

        The whole European affair just reeks of the transition from Catholicism to Lutheranism in the mid-1500’s. Time will settle this out, but in the end, I suspect we lose all of Europe except for very small remnants.

        Maybe including the Vatican. That one is harder to figure out, but as a good bishop has told me: “Just wait for the next conclave”.

        After Bergoglio, conclaves give me the hives, but very possibly there are enough cardinals who tho utterly effete in public might squirrel away enough spiritual and physiological testosterone to actually pull the lever for an actual Catholic.

        Just some musings, but at this point, I’d almost be willing to take Franklin Graham as Pope if he was willing to be fitted for vestments than the garden run “Catholic” Cardinal all of which make me physically ill. Or maybe we need somebody with a modicum of walkin’around smarts about liturgy so a search should be put on for a halfway moral Lutheran Church Missouri Synod pastor since they claim to be “Catholic without the Pope” and it is increasingly unknowable what the Current Occupant claims to be or is.

        Truth is, we are all sort of “Catholic without a (Catholic) Pope these days”…

        😉 🙂

  12. Cardinal Marx has persistently denied a truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith and has thus incurred latae sententiae excommunication.

  13. Will Mrs Merkel ever realise that the Catholic churches are empty and that the huge subsidies the law obliges the states to pay to the german episcopate are undue ?

  14. This is only one maninfestation of Pope Francis’ anti-Catholic teaching in Evangelii Gaudium, para 32. He explains that bishops’ conferences could be sources of doctrinal authority, i.e. instant disintegration of Church into national churches. Don’t say you were not warned. Cardinal Muller pointed out the absurdity of this paragraph back in 2013, but hardly anyone noticed.

    • Watch the stone masons around Vatican City.

      When they erect the scaffolding in front of the Rota offices you know what inscription is going to be chiseled over the doorway…

    • Ohhh buoyo! Karl doesn’t let his prize-winning girth prevent him from getting around, does he? (My guess? The cigar in the first photo is a Montecristo. He likes the vaguely religious name and it comes from Cuba where his beloved comrades are in charge!)

      • Still has a bit of work to do to match the beard of his namesake. Must be low on the testosterone levels there Reinhard.
        That might explain his slow-dance hugfest with the Lutheran heretic in the picture bottom right.

  15. Such apostasies out of the wayward Bergoglio Francis papacy from Schonberg , Roisica ,Radcliff ,cupich, McElroy , McGrath ,of cal.Dolans both coasts and dublin.parish pastor, Tobin nj.,Fagoli ,Farrell sparando ,r Marx ,Paglia plus Martin Amer mgz. . Homosexual apostates running retreats for the pope himself. Apostates homosexual run pontificate of life ,media fronts for the confusion of the Vatican Bergoglio himself . .. . . SCHISM has arrived in the rump cino scarcely Roman or Catholic Church. .

  16. The Greek Orthodox Church is a separate Church, but its sacraments are valid. I suppose that we Catholics here in Germany will one day face a similar situation with the German “Catholic” Church. In the meantime, those of us who still regularly go to confession will continue to seek out confessors who are priests that believe in the traditional teachings of the Church. We will continue to assume that the Masses we attend are valid. And we will continue to pray with our whole heart and our whole soul that God will send us a good and great pope some day, one who will rebuild the Church, as the great and good popes of the past always managed to do, with God’s grace.

    • RE: the picture;

      That fellow third from the left is saying: “Hey, can we get a few of you Bishops to lend your fat carcasses to this side of the Barque? We need your dead weight ballast to right this thing!”

  17. Sodomy and filthy lucre…ever the foul enemies of Christ and His Church, His Bride. “How long, Oh Lord?”
    May God have Mercy upon us…and may Our Lady, Invincible Queen of Heaven, defend us and help us in this very dark and dismal hour.

  18. Time to cleanse the Vatican of the smoke of Satan within.
    This was the plan of Bergoglio all along – to destroy the Catholic Church.
    It was the same agenda as Barack Obama – to destroy the US.
    Communism is spreading fast – people wake up.

  19. God Bless Mr Von Gersdorff! I am generally under the impression that there are no good Catholics left in Germany but after reading this article it gives me hope.


Leave a Comment

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

Popular on OnePeterFive

Share to...