Image credit: L’Osservatore Romano
I’m at a loss.
I know this isn’t news, but the constant reminders of our Holy Father’s utter disregard for Catholic truth is…well, it’s just disheartening. We told you about Lund and the push for intercommunion — and why that’s not even possible. We addressed the fact that the Church has long since infallibly tackled the errors of Martin Luther. We didn’t bother with his proposal of new beatitudes (no, that’s not satire. I’m not kidding.)
But the thing that really got to me today was this:
The longing for unity, which is clearly strong in the leadership of both sides, also showed itself to highlight commonalities at the expense of real differences such as women’s ordination, abortion rights and human sexuality. When it comes to ethics and morals, Lutherans and Catholics have never been farther apart.
Still, Church and Lutheran leaders gave the day, which included an international ecumenical gathering and a question and answer session with Pope Francis in the evening, effusive praise. Rev. Junge said the historic meeting was a “fantastic encouragement” for dialogue and a “milestone” in the bilateral relationship.
Catholic and Lutherans attending the evening event also appeared to be greatly encouraged by the commemoration.
“It was a very big event and I think it changed something, not only in the Church but in me personally,” said Els, 65, from Sweden. “I found what the Pope said to be most helpful: to convert and not to judge other churches nor my own church.” But asked if she felt drawn to enter the Catholic Church as a result, she emphatically said “no” and that she had to “be faithful to my church.” She told the Register she felt Pope Francis “doesn’t want us to be altogether as Catholics but remain as we are. We have to keep our identity and that’s the only way to become one church because unity is in diversity, and not in difference.”
Jonas, a Swedish non-denominational Christian, said he believed the commemoration was a “sign of Christian unity and hope for the future,” adding it was “very nice” to have the Pope in Sweden.” But like Els, the event did not draw him toward the Catholic Church but rather called him to be a “faithful Christian.”
“May God bless Catholics,” he said.
Father Dominic, a Jesuit living in Stockholm, said the most “fundamental thing was that Catholics and Protestants came together and made this happen.” He advocated more dialogue in order “to learn much more” from each other. The Pope’s visit, he said, “made the faith more accessible, it’s saying you don’t need to be afraid of Catholics.”
Cardinal Koch told reporters in the evening of Oct. 31 it was a “very beautiful” day, one that’s “very late” in coming, but “very important.” It’s a “new beginning of a way to leave conflict in the past and go toward communion in the future,” he said.
But when asked by the Register whether he believed the Catholic Church was the one, true Church to which all Lutherans actually belong, he said “Christ is also present in other churches.”
The Catholic Church is the “universal Church” while the Lutherans have “another structure,” he said, a subject he would like “deepened.”
This theme is so profoundly consistent with Francis/Bergoglio. He has been avoiding actual evangelization — sometimes working actively against it — for as long as anyone can remember. I’ve covered this in some detail in the past. We also know that he dissuaded Tony Palmer from becoming a Catholic when he expressed interest in doing so, and the poor man died outside the Church because he took then-Cardinal Bergoglio’s advice. Lund repeats the same rejection of the Great Commission we’ve been witnessing for years. Just listen to this testimony from two American Protestant leaders who met with Francis in Rome. You need only about 30 seconds to get the jist (the video starts at 6:39; if it doesn’t go there automatically, you’ll want to skip ahead):
My faith, my hope, my trust, is in Jesus Christ and in the promise he gave to His Church. But enough is enough already! There’s not enough time in the day to report on all the ways Rome is now rejecting Christ’s own teaching and mission.
I believe God is letting this happen for a reason, and I believe that this is the time of Our Lady, whose Immaculate Heart will triumph. But my own heart, sinful and small as it is, is heavy.
I again turn today to His Excellency Bishop Athanasius Schneider, who cuts to the heart of the crisis and gives us a cause for hope: Mary is the destroyer of all heresies.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veDViqg3cv8?rel=0
‘Rejoice — Gaude — O Virgin, my Lady, for thou alone has destroyed all heresies in the whole world. Mother of God, intercede for us.’
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/b1074486428a4f8c67484371664e1fc3720ae642003eaa2be93035163dd5f977.jpg
Seeds from our wombs!!
THE
LILY
(“The martyrs were bound, imprisoned, scourged, racked, burnt, rent, butchered – and they multiplied.” St. Augustine)
No burning tearing
Scourging skin
It’s psychological
All within.
No rotting flesh
Or putrid blood
It’s sterile clean
No rancid crud.
For butchered
Tortured bound up skins
Reveals the Truth
Pope Francis sins.
He wants it nice
He wants it hushed
With veins of ice
Good souls are crushed.
The silent cold
Is better yet
Frozen solid
Can’t beget.
For martyred blood
Reveals the Church
Blind souls see Truth
And end their search.
“We can’t have that!”
The Pope, he say,
“So let’s ignore…
They’ll go away.
Enlightened men
Don’t scourge the skin
Enlightened men
Keep blood within.”
But he forgot –
The woman bleeds
And monthly makes
A bed for seeds
Where nice and hushed
They’ll grow to men
And seize the oars
From wrists that bend…
On Peter’s Barque
Where blood still flows
From woman’s womb…
The Lily grows!
A future generation will look at this time as the age of the hireling and the wolf.
Personally, I think future generations will look on this time as the age of insanity.
Even the progressives at Vatican II didn’t go that far in Lumen gentium and its infamous “subsists in” statement.
I must have missed the papal document stating that all non-Catholic “churches” are equivalent structures that enjoy the fullness of Truth and communion with Christ to the same extent as the Church He actually founded during my last perusal of my copy of Denzinger. Oh, wait. No, I didn’t, because it doesn’t exist!
How can people continue to defend this man and then turn around and accuse those of us who see him for what he is of being unfaithful Catholics? Is their conception of Catholicism so predicated upon the Pope always being right, even when he is wrong, that Truth is simply whatever the man in white happens to decide it is on a given day? Francis isn’t even trying to hide this any longer, and yet people still are acting as if this is “no big deal”!
Call me naive, but I thought we were supposed to believe that the following statement is actually true:
“But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema” (Galatians 1:8).
Maybe I have been wrong—no, maybe all of us; maybe the Church herself has been wrong—this entire time. At least, Francis—the man whose only job is to defend and pass on unblemished the Holy Catholic Faith—seems to think that way.
I feel like we are talking to Hilary supporters that refuse to see her as the criminal that she is. For God sakes we can’t sit back and not speak the truth or other people will actually believe this Pope. CM knows he has scandalized us, but we can’t say anything to damage the new Catholics that are new in their faith or some other garbage or if we do we aren’t faithful Catholics ???? Yet no problem bashing Pope Bennidict. I pray everyday for this Pope, but he as you say isn’t afraid to hide what his agenda is. What is a faithful Catholic supposed to do??? If I didn’t believe Jesus was in that tabernacle I would leave. As a revert of 8 years this is really started to worry me. Dear God help us!
I am sure had I heard the truth of the Catholic Church from sources like CM, Catholic.com (Jimmy Aiken) instead of Ann, Steve or Michael Matt, I would still be in my 2nd adulterous “marriage”. It is pure BS that CM doesn’t want to scare or confuse converts. The Truth, even when painful is so very beautiful….just look at the Cross.
I have never heard Michael Voris or Jimmy Aikens defend divorce and remarriage. I have heard CM talk against communion for the Divorced and Remarried. The only thing is they place the blames on the likes of Kasper. You can disagree with their choice to not mention when the Popes says something off. They don’t see the benefit to pointing at Pope Francis when the issue is addressed (I know others do).
I heard Jimmy akin say that a divorced Catholic who remarried might be able to recieve.
Yes, I believe he wrote it too, in one of his 11 things you need to know….
Goodness. I hope that he handles it well. His knowledge is pretty amazing. He’s in that position of having received much.
Knowledge without Faith is worthless. I have heard Jimmy Akin give advice on Catholic Answers that was directly opposed to Catholic teaching – on missing Mass on Sundays if you were going camping with a friend – he said this to a little boy who called up, urged on by his faithless parents. Akin said it was more important for the boy to spend quality time with his friend and family than to worship God Himself.
So respect for Jimmy Akin’s knowledge only goes so far. Another modernist convert to Catholicism who can’t seem to leave Protestantism behind.
Interesting. The errors seem to be pastoral in nature. I’ve always been impressed with his knowledge of the cannon law, documents like girm and others. But there are a few areas where he’s seemingly deferring in a Papolatry way to him who must not be named.
We can never separate dogma and discipline from the pastoral. What does it mean, in new-church to be pastoral? It seems to mean being sympathetic to sinners. Period. But the true Pastor points out the sin, and teaches the truth – in a calm, kind, pastoral way – and by the way, aside from pointing out the sin, a true Pastor shows how to stop the sin, how to obtain forgiveness, and shows how God’s Grace strengthens the sinner when temptation strikes. None of this separates the so-called pastoral from the Truth.
Priests used to be taught Psychology and Philosophy along with Theology both doctrinal and moral. There is a human Psychology that shows what man is – how he thinks (the intellect), what he does (the will), and why he does not do what he ought (concupiscence). But we can’t leave it there. There are practical human ways to get out of the mess of sin. Teaching them is truly pastoral and merciful.
This reminds me of cs Lewis discussion about how ethics are universally understood as a mark of how one ought to act – but tends not to. As to the shepherd’s role, it obviously cannot be to console a flock as it wanders over a cliff’s edge but rather to reign them back. The man who cheers sheep to their doom is not a Shepherd but a butcher. It certainly cannot be rightly called pastoral.
He should be called on it.
CM was very good (my once go-to site) while there was a somewhat conservative pope (i.e. Benedict) as there was no serious need to point fingers at the pontiff and instead you can focus on all the other things. But with Francis their compass began to spin out of control (that’s what universal diabolical disorientation does) and for me the final straw was their attack on those who hold the uncompromised traditional position. With Francis at the helm there can be no room for “ultra” traditionalists. Meaning if you hold onto Catholic teaching and truth to the letter and don’t accept modern errors of the “spirit” then you got to go. Now they’re too proud to back down on their position and have lost many subscribers as a result (myself being one). Even if they correct their position its too late. I don’t need them anymore because in the meantime I have found more trustworthy sources.
Ditto. I discontinued my premium membership as well. And, for icing on the cake, was banned from posting all because I did write justified criticism of Francis.
I find it interesting that, after banning countless people (us included) for stating the obvious about this pontiff, CM no longer even bothers to report on what is happening in the Vatican. If one clicks on their “Vatican” tab on their banner, one is redirected to their “F.B.I.” page instead. They haven’t even posted a story related to the Vatican—at least according to how they categorize them—since July.
It’s Voris’s website, and he can do whatever he wants. But I find his “see no evil” approach wholly disingenuous, especially after how he spent the past two years acting as if he was the only credible source for news regarding the Synods and other Vatican activity. If he wants to turn his site into an election HQ forum, that’s his business. But as far as journalistic credibility, he’s completely lost it as far as I am concerned.
Agreed.
Ditto and ditto for me, about two years ago. Up to a couple of months ago I was receiving pro forma messages by email asking me to come back. I told them I had been banned and my reasoned and true-to-the-Faith comments deleted and that I thought they ought to close down. A reply from Simon Rafe said I would be reinstituted if I wanted to make only polite and reasoned comments (don’t believe for a moment that my comments wouldn’t be deleted again, and me banned again), and that there were new moderators with a new policy!
For whatever reason MV refuses to state the obvious.
I’m a revert too. Look at the end discussion in John 6. That is the right answer.
I don’t know what you mean. John 6 in the Bible?
It’s the Gospel of St. John, chapter 6:
http://www.drbo.org/chapter/50006.htm
They defend him because they have no knowledge of the Church and if they know scripture, feel that it’s some kind of “living document” that can be divorced from the intention of the author – or that the author might evolve to change His mind.
Protestantism, unlike Eastern Orthodoxy, is not a Church. It does not have apostolic succession, and therefore the Sacrament of Orders. It is called an “eccelsial community”, meaning that it has similarites to the Church, but not a Church.
For the answer, meditate on the denial of Christ by Peter. Peter denied Christ just as He was entering His Passion, the biggest crisis point. Can you imagine that effect? ‘nope don’t know ‘im, He’s a fraud, don’t know whatcha’ talikin’ about’. And Peter denies WITH AN OATH!!
The whole point of this crisis is that the Pope IS the Pope, and this crisis is foreshadowed many times in Scripture.
This is the plan. Hang on to Mary, pray that Rosary.
I think a big problem is that men are so emasculated (including myself) that he can get away with this stuff. In the middle ages they would have handled a man like Francis physically.
Indeed. We need to become warriors.
At the time of St. Catherine of Sienna, he would have received some letters which would express with respect the errors he is falling into. Then there was St. Bernard. Would he keep quiet about all that is going on? Of course not. We need saints like these.
There are simply no excuses. It is an outright abandonment. And… AND… we really need to come face to face with this fact… the only… the ONLY ONLY WAY it could be possible for our Pope and Bishops to behave in this way and to say this thing… HAS… to be because they themselves have fallen into Apostasy. Right from the TOP. Otherwise such actions make no sense. They’d be absurd!
Can these men and our Pope Really… I mean REALLY… believe in the True Presence? Can they REALLY believe in Papal infallibility?
That or… and this is where diabolical disorientation comes in…. Do they actually imagine they can exercise, as Hillary Clinton and politicians of similar ilk do? That they can have a Public and a Private Position on the Catholic Faith?
Does this make any more sense than a Public Pope and a Private Pope? Of which… guess what?! We have in front of our very eyes? The Public one says what the world likes, and the private one locks himself away and somehow they don’t feel in contradiction living with each other?
Is not this visible sign an act of Providence, highlighting the utter absurdity of this whole ordeal? Having our cake and eating it too? Can the blood of St. Januarius half liquefy?
Can the Eucharist be both bread and have Jesus’s presence on stand-by like the Lutherans profess to believe in rather than as Catholics teach… be TRULY TRANSFORMED IN ITS ENTIRE SPECIES???
Can we not just divorce and remarry?
Is it just me picking up on this ‘dualist’ neo-Arian-like heresy? Are we now in Orwell’s Church where yes and no shake hands in public and call themselves unity?
Dear Steve, Rejoice – today is the day of All of Our Lord’s Saints! They are surrounding you; they are guarding you! Live with them more deeply and your suffering will be a joyful sharing in Our Lord’s Cross. The world doesn’t want the Cross, and many in the Church never hear about it because the Modernists hold up plastic resurrected Jesus figures. But it is the friends of the Cross who will share in the victory of Our Lady’s Immaculate Heart. It has to be this way! God in His Providence has ordained it all. Go back to Fr. Garrigou-Lagrange’s book on Providence. It feeds the soul. Now is being given by Providence – all of it (even the madness in the Church) so that the tomorrow’s saints may have the steps they need in order to get to Heaven. Crazy popes, bishops, priests, and laity? It is all from God! Thank God for it all.
This mess seems more Satanic than Godlike. Why would an All Merciful God plunge His people into the depths of darkness where countless souls will perish? It appears this battle is the culmination of Satan’s Revolt against God which has never been fully resolved but will be soon.
Jesus gave Satan 100 years to destroy His Church. That ends in 2017. Francis is the fruit of the great apostasy.
Pope Leo XIII was said to have overheard a conversation between Satan & God but that could never be proved, although it does seem in keeping with what has since happened. Nevertheless, one has to ask why would God permit a fallen angel to have such power over His creation? Why did he not annihilate him & the other fallen angels at the time for their refusal to accept God’s dominion over them & His entire creation? Why did He create Satan in the first instance when He knew the trouble he would cause. The CC has given no reasonable explanation for this or the many similar questions surrounding Adam & Eve & Original Sin. Why would an All Perfect, Powerful & Merciful God create something that was not perfect from the beginning with the full knowledge that those souls who would form His Mystical Body would be imperilled & a huge proportion overcome by Satanic venom – what could be His motive?
only God is perfect
Yes & He made another perfect being by His Will – Our Blessed Lady, His Mother, Daughter & Spouse. Why then was He content with an imperfect world peopled by imperfect beings whom we are told form His Mystical Body? It’s a mystery that no-one to date has a satisfactory answer for.
God IS perfect by nature; Our Lady is perfect because God preserved Her from original sin and She cooperated with His will all Her life.
To answer your questions you need only to look at the Book of Job where God again granted power to the devil to destroy and take away everything from Job.
Both God and the Devil are each trying to make a point. The Devil wants to prove that man is unworthy and undeserving of God’s love. Deprive man of his comforts and he will abandon God. Job and other faithful patriarchs and saints proved the devil wrong. The devil hates man and especially hates the Incarnation. This is why he would not serve. Job’s faithfulness to God despite not knowing the reasons for everything God does and permits demonstrated that man indeed has the capacity for faithfulness towards God and that Christ’s redemption was worth it even for just one of these. And thus God restored everything to Job.
If you wish to challenge and accuse God, Ana Milan of not doing what you want, to you He will give the same answers He did to Job – Where were you Ana when He created the Angels and the world? And why do you think that you as a human creature are proud enough to imagine that you can grasp the eternal plan of God and what all His motives are? Who are you to judge God, Ana?
God also answers your questions by demonstrating as the Church teaches that He can draw out something greater through evil. As we praise God at Easter – Oh! Happy Fault! Oh NECESSARY Sin of Adam! That gave us SO GREAT a Redeemer!
Were it not for the Fall, there would be no Cross, nor would mankind know the extent of God’s redeeming Love. Were if not for what God permitted thee Devil to do to Job, Job would never have known how faithful and worthy and humble a man he was and history would never have recorded his example for our own lives. Even in our own lives do we not take note of those occasions where we might fall into tragedy, only to later discover that a tragedy can lead to something wonderful and good? Does not as Jesus says, a seed planted into the ground must die in order to sprout and produce a great tree?
Plus you are forgetting about Free Will Ana. God did create us and even Satan and the fallen angels perfectly and good. But God wanted to be loved freely and thus it is logically necessary that His creatures have the capacity to reject Him. Otherwise you may as well be a robot Ana. Free Will means the possibility that God’s created rational creatures can reject Him, in rejecting Him, reject His Law, and thus bring themselves and others to ruin. But Man was not punished for Satan’s rebellion. Man was punished for his own rebellion, and that too for listening to Satan when God had already instructed Man as to what was what.
We have inherited our problems because we refused to listen to God and listened to the Devil and ate from the forbidden tree. Likewise France too inherited its problems because it refused to listen to God and the King refused to consecrate her to the Sacred Heart of Jesus. And now likewise we too refused to listen and the Popes have not consecrated Russia to Mary’s Immaculate Heart.
Do not blame nor judge God, Ana Milan. Instead in this tragedy see how God can perfect you. Offer your sufferings up for your expiation of punishments due to sin. Let this time as with Job be a time for you to be forced to learn about the faith in such a way as you wouldn’t have done were such times and desperation not upon you.
Have faith. This time is your hour of testing.
I’m not judging or blaming God but the history of Mankind was known to God before he made the Universe. My question was (is) why did He go ahead & create an imperfect world when He Himself is perfect? Perfection being content with imperfection just doesn’t gel. The only human being he made perfect was Our Lady. Satan’s rebellion was known to God before He created him but yet He did. Also, of course, Judas, Pilot, Apostasy of present day Popes & Hierarchies, yet He seemed content to give them souls & permit their wrongdoings even if they ended up in Hell (which PF doesn’t believe in). It is an extraordinary situation to have to believe that He also permitted Satan 100 years to demolish His Church.
The CC had rejected Adam & Eve by the fifties & put the blame for the Fall on Lucifer’s fight with God rejecting His dominion of Heaven & the Universe in his pride thinking he was as good if not greater than God, although he knew God had created him & the other angels. There are two differing accounts of Adam & Eve in the Old Testament with Adam having two wives – Eve being the second – & one saying that Original Sin was introduced when Cain was supposed to have had intercourse with his mother Eve. It is also said that Satan hates Our Lady & knew that God was going to create Her, much against his wishes.
Geneticists who have traced the human gnome are insistent that the world’s population goes back well before Adam & Eve as two people who came into existence only six thousand years ago could not possibly produce our present population. The US army did, however, find the Garden of Eden GARDEN OF EDEN FOUND! @weeklyworldnews in Bagdad & their investigations prove interesting but not conclusive because of the vision of a lady begging them to stop their examination of the apple which she took from them & attached it to the tree before disappearing. We still have a long way to go before more detailed answers can be given but shouldn’t have closed minds. Creation & Evolution must both be involved with Our Creator at its core but He is not yet ready to disclose His hand.
Ana let me help you here –
God did indeed have knowledge that the World He created good would fall. Yes there would be creatures like Satan and many humans who would become evil.
BUT – He also saw so many who would be good! It is for these who love God whom God also loves which is why God went through with it. The many fallen away do NOT take away from the glory of the Saints! The Virgin Mary – the pinnacle of Creation – would not have existed otherwise, and the reason she is so glorious and so necessary a created being is PRECISELY because of what Eve did! No Eve, no Fall means no Mary and no Redemption. Mary is great precisely because she in contrast to Eve succeeded! She succeeded precisely because she also had Eve’s example in hindsight and wisely learned from Eve’s mistake.
Do you know how stories are written even in classical literature and even modern day story-telling from books to films and videogames? It’s called ‘The Hero’s Journey.’ The main protagonist in a story could very well live an idyllic life free from problems. But that doesn’t make for a compelling narrative. Instead the author would bring tragedy into his life, forcing him to change. This character can then either roll over in despair and die or turn to evil himself, or he can overcome his situation and become the ‘hero’ of the plot. And that makes for a compelling story, and we are all naturally drawn to this structure. The same is true for what God is doing, and for all of us individually. The Devil may have thrown a wrench into the completed good world God created. But instead, God uses this as an opportunity to make us even better than before. You are either going to answer that call, or you won’t. As someone who has gone through severe episodes of depression, I could easily sit here and wonder why God did those things to me, but now in hindsight I can look back and see the times he’s made me stronger and those times in my life when my mistakes and sufferings teach me lessons that have helped me avoid greater problems in the future. That is what growing up is.
If you know your Scripture and you learn the lessons of Job and you read the Revelation to St. John and you look at the fact that God did not even spare His Only Son from suffering and temptation, then it is easy to see why God permits the Devil to attempt to destroy the Church for 100 years. For one thing to prove that despite all the time allotted to the Devil, the Devil will still ultimately fail. Secondly, because the lessons we learn now, will aid future generations just as previous crises the Church lived through which were even worse for the early Christians. Lastly, just as such times made the Christians back then holier through their trials, we too are now being given trials to persevere through so that we can win a greater reward at the end of it. I know I have sinned so much, therefore if God sends suffering my way now so that I can avoid greater suffering in Purgatory, then with faith I must accept it. Given we have been given numerous prophecies about this time we are living through, we know that God therefore has something great in mind when all is said and done.
Finally I must warn you to be careful of apocryphal works claiming Adam had other wives such as Lilith. This is not part of accepted Scripture and is nowhere in the Bible. And in fact to imagine Eve was his second wife is heresy because Inerrant Scripture and the Church teach us that the first man and woman was Adam and Eve. There were no other humans. It is infallible Dogma established by Pope Pius XII in Humani Generis that ALL HUMANITY is descended from Adam and Eve, to believe otherwise is the heresy of polygeneris.
As well I warn you against scientists claims of evolution which have no scientific basis whatsoever. Also you are factually incorrect about Adam and Eve not being able to mathematically produce the number of human descendants we see today. First it’s more accurately a result of Noah and his sons and their wives who were on board the Ark that are responsible for the human race today. And yes if you look up Creationist resources like the Kolbe Center or even Protestant organizations like Answers in Genesis, this line of argumentation you are using has been refuted long ago. Please look it up as it’ll be too detailed for me to explain here.
But all in all, it is Sacred Scripture and the Tradition of the Church and her Fathers and infallible Papal teachings and Councils that teach you the correct version of Creation. Evolution, more accurately macro-evolution and Darwinian ideas have no Truth to them, and cannot even explain their mechanisms through any actual empirical scientific means. The Scientific Consensus today cannot even disprove the Church that the Earth goes around the Sun. The best it attempts to argue is that Relativity makes the question meaningless, and one can therefore only rely on philosophical criteria to test it’s models, and even that is under ever increasing scrutiny especially with the CMB background radiation showing structures aligned with the Earth/Sun Ecliptic. For more on that look up a documentary ‘The Principle’ & ‘Journey to the Center of the Universe’ as well as the work of Robert Sungenis – ‘Galileo Was Wrong. The Church was Right.’
I wouldn’t put stock in what the U.S. Army supposedly found either, because the Garden of Eden was destroyed in the Flood of Noah and the continents have also been shifted. Nor do we even know what precisely the ‘fruit’ of the Tree of Knowledge or of Life was even except that they were unique and set apart from the rest of the Garden, so it’s doubtful those were Apples. The popular idea of the fruit being an apple only comes from the creative decisions made by artists.
So it seems you have a lot to learn and must put more trust in the Book of Genesis to understand that God had already long explained why the situation oft he world is the way it is and why Mankind had inherited this fallen world and why and how God has used this to His and our advantage. Everything He has done is fair. Because one man – Adam – could ruin the world for all of us – means – that one man -the new ‘Adam’ – Christ – can redeem the world and all of us as well. If you can become one of those people, then it matters not what becomes of the Devil or those who go to Hell. They go there, not for any unfair reasons – but they are there PRIMARILY – because they WANT TO BE THERE. That’s the dirty truth. Pride is the only reason they are there, not that they are sinful, for if it were just a matter of sin, they could have begged God for Mercy humbly and entered Purgatory. But the obstinate sin of pride or despair and unwillingness to accept God’s Mercy and Justice means they have nowhere to go, but away from God whom they hate or reject.
Know this – even if it were just for one human – the Virgin Mary – God would allow the rest of humanity to go to Hell if they chose to. So much would’ve been His love for her. But this love is also extend3ed to all of us. God conceived us in his mind, and what he saw and still sees in all of us is that same good potential He created us with and for Himself. So much was His love for us. We were already conceived and God wanted to let us be born. The Devil however, wanted God to abort us! Do you realize Ana, that by arguing that because the human situation seems so dire to your eyes that God probably should not have bothered, that you are essentially saying the EXACT same thing that Planned Parenthood and Abortionists do? They evaluate the worth of a child and determine that due to some imperfect circumstance, that the child should be killed and prevented from being??? Think VERY CAREFULLY about that! Who are you Ana to say God should not have created us and deprive others of existing? You do not speak for me! And neither should you look down on yourself either! You are here Ana because God loved you and wanted you to be here! Flawed and imperfect as you are, you are loved, and God sees good in you that He intends to perfect and draw out and He will do so even if it means refining you like a sword in the fire, through hammering and suffering! Accept this! Let yourself be in His craftsman’s hands and let Him perfect you!
Remember this when all the world around you seems so dark! Conform yourself to God’s will and trust Him, and your heroic journey to Heaven will be assured! Do not worry that you may not possess all the answers, wisdom and knowledge now over our present situation. Do what you know you must. Let those God has placed into positions of such importance deal with it. That is their duty, not yours. Otherwise God would have you there already. See to your state in life and perform those duties to your very end!
If God created all good and noting bad we wouldn’t have had the Fall in the first instance. Evil cannot come from perfection as demonstrated by Our Lady & the good angels. God is the Creator as well as the Redeemer. If all was good in the beginning then nothing evil could ever have come about. My original question was in this connection – not about the whys & wherefores afterwards.
Yes, everything was good when God completed the Creation and rested on the 7th Day. But you must understand that ‘Good’ also meant mankind’s capacity for Free Will. It worked precisely as God intended it to. That man and the Angel could choose to love Him or not. This meant God intentionally allowed us to decide whether or not we accepted His rule over us. Of course rejecting His rule means we naturally want to be our own God and this being impossible means we can fall into ruin forever.
You are mixing up ‘Good’ and ‘Perfection.’ The animal kingdom was good as was nature before the Fall. Placed under man’s domain, when man rebelled it became corrupted. Naturally because God had to withdraw Himself because man rejected Him. this was the change. And when change occurs that is the existence of time. In Time a person like you and me can be good or bad depending on the state we are in at any given moment. We currently do not exist in eternity, but in time and therefore the capacity to become that which is good still exists and free will is still operative.
Our Lady and the Good Angels are ‘Good’ but they are not ‘perfect.’ Even they are dependent on the grace of God, apart from which they can do nothing. It is grace that maintains them in ‘Good’ and they are ‘perfect’ only in so much as they fulfill what they were created to be. Even now their free will is operative, it doesn’t disappear given they are in Heaven. So hypothetically, they can still freely choose to rebel and fall, but we believe by faith that thanks to Christ’s sacrifice and the extent to our purification and redemption in light of the Fall that in experiencing and witnessing the fallen state that this will never occur. In this matter God has extracted an even greater more powerful good from the experience of evil, not from the evil itself, but from the lesson.
Thus your belief that ‘If all was good in the beginning then nothing evil could ever have come about’ is erroneous. God had set things up in this manner so that He might reverse it and keep all things fair and equal. If one man can doom the world, one man can redeem it. If an evil outcome can come about from a good setting as a result of Free Will, so too can a good outcome come about from an evil setting as a result of Free Will.
The world was made good precisely in that even if it fell it could be redeemed. This is why in Scripture you read that even before the foundations of the world and creation were laid, the Lamb of God was slain in eternity! (Revelation 13:8). So even before God began the act of Creation He had preemptively redeemed it! This has long been known and taught by the Church. Go and look at the Sistine Chapel ceiling and the painting of God’s creation of Adam where He reaches out to him touching his finger and bringing him to life. To the top right you will see also the image of Our Lady and the child Jesus hidden under the arm of God. This is INTENTIONAL. That the world even though it may fall, can and has already a priori been redeemed is precisely what makes it Good, and an even GREATER GOOD because this is a Good that has overcome that which is evil.
If you are saying that God made everything Good instead of Perfect, that would imply He knowingly allowed evil to occur from the beginning of Creation & still begs the question why would He do so? Why did He set things up in this manner? By doing so He knew HIs only begotten Son Jesus would have to pay with His own blood for our sins to give us a chance of redemption, whereas if He made His Creation perfect He wouldn’t have had to. That it was intentional makes it so much harder to understand. There has to be an underlying reason to all of this that has not yet been revealed.
Anyway, thank you for your thoughtful response. We were born in these times for a purpose. God put us here with the purpose of defeating Satan in his last stand fully knowing we would have no assistance from the pope or hierarchy & that surely is a great honour.
Indeed He did know what would occur, and He did so. The simplest way I can put it Ana is that God desired the Saints. He loved them and wanted them to exist and love Him in return which is a reciprocal joy. But the Saints would not exist without the sinners. You couldn’t have Mary without Eve. God’s sacrifice is also not evil. It was good. The circumstances that brought it about were evil, but Christ’s free will sacrifice was never an evil action. But without evil it would never occur. When man choose to eat from the Tree of Wisdom to know Good and Evil that’s precisely what man brought about by such action, the clear distinction between good and evil. But one can only be defined juxtaposed against the other. It sounds paradoxical, but good is never tarnished because of evil. In order for Free Will to exist, both extremes must be made possible. Otherwise Free Will cannot ever exist. God saw the infinite good that could be brought about from the contrast against evil. And God knew the cost. So obviously God in His perfection saw it for what it was worth and acted on it, and who then are we to question it?
God did not create satan. Lucifer made himself that way by misuse of free will through mortal sin. Note that angels cannot commit venial sin.
Which leads to your other question. God respects free will which is necessary for allowing love. Therefore He knew that some creatures would abuse His gift. It’s a sacrifice. Example: if you are married and have children, why do you do that knowing that they will harm you in various ways over the course of your life? Love!
God created everyone & everything. Being God He knows prior to creation how His created will turn out, so if we are supposed to be perfect then He would (in the human mind) necessarily create a perfect being. Some angels were created perfect – as was Our Blessed Lady – others not. Lucifer & his minions were created for a reason. No-one can understand His motive because our intellects aren’t up to the necessary standard. It is better that we realise our inferiority to God rather than give insufficient reasons for His decision to make an imperfect world.
That’s Calvinist thinking. God did not create evil. Rather He created only good things and good beings, some of which include rational beings (vs animals). Some rational creatures chose to become evil with the gift of free will, such as satan. Love is only possible with free will.
Catholics must open their minds to science (which itself is a gift from God). Some of the very best scientists were Catholic monks. The CC was always supportive of science that had at its core Our Creator, i.e. before VII when climate change took precedence.
It has been established that the creation of physical man took place long before Our First Parents who were the first human beings to receive a soul from God which means that God is very much involved in evolution which, of course, Atheists don’t accept but Catholic scientists do. The CC has taught for many decades now that we are not to take the story of Adam & Eve literally as being first of the species but the first to receive a soul promising eternal life with God. It is now accepted that human beings had to evolve to a certain stage in order for a soul to be implanted. It is quite possible that sin was prevalent in the world prior to the creation of Adam & Eve & inherited by them which made them vulnerable to Satan but as Atheistic science is not interested in nor qualified in determining such detail, this is where Catholic science is badly needed to come up with an answer.
A good website for debate of this kind is – thomisticevolution.org.
Evolution should be viewed as a ID tool made by Christ as a means to an end. When that end is completed, evolution will also end.
Since you are into science, then read this revelation given to a priest some decades ago. http://www.genesibiblica.eu/ing.html I call it created quantum evolution. Very interesting and long at 180 pages.
Sin did exist before the creation of the world, those fallen angels. Only rational creatures can sin, so animals before Adam and Eve did not sin. Animals never sin now either.
You have been infected with the false philosophy of Modernism which questions or denies both the perennial teachings of the Catholic Church on creation, the inerrancy of Sacred Scripture, and has bought into the false theory of both scientific evolution and “evolution of man.”
God did not create evil. He gave the angels and man free will and when they reject God, that is what is evil.
Go back to or please learn the teachings of the Church prior to Vatican II as they are the Truth revealed by God, through Christ and the Holy Ghost.
Free will. Creation is an outflowing of the love inherent in the Trinity, and as such reflects that love in that it must be freely given. For love to be free, there has to be a choice to NOT love. When God created man “in His own image”, it doesn’t mean we physically look like God, but we have that same consciousness, and free will. Without that it would appear that paradise was ideal without suffering, but in fact we would simply be a planet of robot slaves. Without love.
This even extends to human relationships. I didn’t court my wife by kidnapping her and locking her in a shipping container, to protect her from all harm. That’s also not the way God “rolls”.
That’s why I am certain that Hell must exist, and it isn’t empty. There must be a place for those who chose, through their own will, to be separated from God. Evil (and Hell) are not positive creations themselves, but the absence of the good that God intended.
Poets and philosophers and theologians (including those in the Catholic Church) have pondered this throughout the ages, and usually conclude that having the possibility of the good is worth the momentary suffering of this world. To be a little trite about it, “no pain, no gain” does not just apply to physical exercise.
Despite PF’s insistence that Hell doesn’t exist, as Catholics we are obliged to believe that it does. Our Blessed Lady showed Hell to the three children in Fatima & all the souls descending by the second into it. Other saints have witnessed Hell & their descriptions are horrifying, yet according to PF that is piffle & continues to fraternise with those who believe likewise. He clearly doesn’t get the smell of the sheep who are appalled by his actions & only want the return of the Old Rite which sanctified our worship & call sinners to repentance.
However, the existence of Heaven & Hell still does not answer the question which is why did God create evil & well as good. Lucifer came from His hands as well as Michael, Raphael & Gabriel. That’s where the whole Fall started & is only now, IMO, beginning to play out for good. Sodomite Rome is next for the hit if someone in the hierarchy doesn’t stand up & shout out loud for Christ. This is what the sheep demand!
…why did God create evil…? There is so much about our Catholic faith that is sublime, And the church’s teaching on the origin of evil is one of those sublime truths.
Ana, God did not create evil. He can only create good. The origins of evil in the universe is charged to Lucifer, a good Angel, and when out of pride, he wanted to BE LIKE God, he rebelled, now Satan, and took apparently millions of other angels with him to hell to reign there forever. That was all in the spiritual realm, outside of space and time.
Then the devil tempted Adam and Eve, and they are the secondary cause of our fallen condition in the material universe.
Years ago, I was involved on the fringes of the New Age ideas. I would be exposed to ideas of the origin of evil in ways that are nothing more than inflated, self-important egos. E. G. Good cannot exist without evil. We could not recognize one without the other. Primitive people’s developed mythological understanding of good and evil, all originating in their imaginations. The church’s understanding of good and evil comes from genesis – from God, in His Transcendence, revealing himself to us which is profoundly revealed to us through reason, not the unreliable imagination. Of course, it takes the Teaching Church to separate mythological words and images from the true revelation.
It just isn’t possible for the church to know this, if Genesis were not a revelation from God.
There is no violence in Genesis. God created the good universe from the plentitude of His Infinite Abundance. The pagan myths are steeped in violent struggle between good and evil.
We don’t know for certain when it started or when it ends. Please God it IS next year, but we can’t be sure.
I am sure
Dear Ana, Your question touches upon one of the deepest mysteries of the Catholic Faith. It is tied to others, like: Why would the All Merciful God plunge Himself into the depths of sinful a world? Why did God become man? Besides being All Merciful God is also All Just. How these two great attributes are one in Him we cannot fathom. St. Augustine warns us not to try to figure out why Peter is chosen from all eternity to be saved, but Judas is not; why the Good Thief is chosen from all eternity to be saved, but the Bad Thief is not. He warns us not to try and fathom this lest we too should fall. Why Pope Francis and not Pope Saint Pius X in our days? We need to accept what God is giving us.
What we do know is that God permitts evil since He alone can draw good from it. Satan is but a creature – although a very tragic and powerful one – whom God permitts to play a part in bringing the elect to Heaven. Satan is used by God to give those who love God the perfect conditions in which to manifest their love for the Most Blessed Trinity. When evil is permitted it is the arena, so to speak, in which God’s power in His Saints is most beautifully manifested. Think of the martryrs: God permitted the evil that came against them, yet by His grace they showed God’s Goodness to the world. The evil was taken and filled with God’s presence, and so the absence of good was overcome. The is what Divine Mercy does since it is the love which is stronger than any evil that comes against man.
Yes, there is a battle – but the battle is already won. Satan is defeated: the lives of the Saints manifest this. How would the Saints react to a weak pope or even an erroneous pope? They would praise God, remain faithful, and never act against justice. They would not panic, nor give Satan credit for something he did. He cannot conquer unless souls empower him to do so. Satan hates the fact that God permitts evil so that those who love Him may grow into Saints.
The battle, as I’ve said, is won – confidence in Divine Providence is paramount at every stage of the Christian life. The Saints living among us today are not confused about what is going on: they see God’s hand in all things, and they praise Him for allowing them to be placed in the Fire of Purification. Like the souls in Purgatory, their only desire is for God, and they are prepared to suffer whatever it takes to reach Him. Neither ecclesiastical nor political clowns distract them from union with God.
Please God we’ll receive such a grace in these times.
You wrote a very interesting post Robert, I have thought a great deal about Saint Padre Pio recently and what he endured in the sense that he was stopped from giving mass and absolving the faithful of their sins in the confessional. Many stood up for him and he told them off I think he said something like you can’t fight satan with satan.
Dear Christopher,
What wise words from a Saint! Padre Pio remained faithful no matter what God permitted him to suffer. His wisdom with regards to Satan is something we do not hear enough about, and so there is a tendency to hyperinflate Satan’s power and the exercise of it. He is a creature, and the most fallen. The Saints do not underestimate Satan’s power, but they do not make him omnipotent.
Christ the King cannot be dethroned, no matter how much man may reject His divine authority. Satan, it could be said, does not even have a plan but simply rages against God’s creation. He is like a spoilt child. God permitts this in order that His own glory may be resplendent in the victory over sin and death. Christ willed to go to the Cross to give greater glory to God. He freely chose to do so, and gives us the grace to also freely do so.
God’s glory is most beautifully shown to us in the humility that Satan hates so much – and it is in Our Lady’s “fiat” that God’s greatest creature defeats the pride of our enemy. Once more, it is confidence in God’s work that defeats him. Her confidence even at the foot of the Cross is what we are called to imitate.
Dear Robert, Thank you for the generous response.
Imagine for one moment you are a Cardinal and you are at the conclave to elect a new Pope, do you think it is acceptable for me to see you in Vatican city and ask you who or whom you would vote for?
Dear Christopher,
The imagination is a powerful thing! John Lennon comes up with the most ridiculous song devoted to imaging all kinds of nonesense.Thank God I’m not a cardinal – I’d end up voting from myself. That’s how silly my imagination is!!!
With regards to who will be the next pope, or who I’d hope to see there – I’d hope for someone who spends hours each day before the Blessed Sacrament; who speaks and writes very little; who would warn me about the danger of loosing my soul; and who would consecrate the whole world – naming each individual country in the prayer – to the Sacred Heart, and Immaculate Heart of Our Lady. Who that would be, or whether there is a man of such an ilk, I do not know. Whoever God gives to us I will accept and pray for.
At this moment my task is clear – pray for the pope and love him, especially when he is wrong.
Dear Robert,
My response would be that if I was a Cardinal and I was at a conclave it would be unacceptable to solicit who I should vote for from a member of the lay congregation.
Then to brag about using this technique after the conclave as if somehow it is a surprise of the Holy Spirit is beyond belief.
You mentioned humility, the first virtue in your previous post can we agree that humility isn’t the same as nice. The humility of nice is very common in the western world but is actually false humility, if we were supposed to just accept everything and be nice God wouldn’t have provided us with a voice to fight injustice, lies and deception.
Is it a sin to not stand against deception, heresies and lies?
Why? Scripture and history repeatedly show that God’s wrath would be aroused by apostasy and chastise them by destroying the kingdom of the Israelites and send them into exile. He always gathered them again and restored them.
God allowed Satan to test Job and took away everything he had… yet when Job proved faithful, God restored it all and more.
So to with the Church. We’ve seen more than a few chastisements. The whole world groaned to find itself Arian, remember? The Iconoclasts thrived on the throne of the Constantine after the semi-Arians. The East was swallowed by Islam and the west rent by schism. We took the Mass for granted and God took it away. He preserved it, along with Holy Orders and the Sacraments, though, and tested many faithful. Many trads fail and fall into schism discouraged. Be like Job and bear it without blasphemy or falling into sin with the error of the sedes or schismatics. Pray for the Holy Father. He needs it! We need it.
As I have said many times I have no intention of leaving the CC as I do believe in its former teaching that ‘outside the church there is no redemption’. I just feel that we are all on a rollercoaster not of our making. Those that jump off will, I believe, regret it, as Christ has assured us those who persevere to the end will be saved. That is a given!
I can’t ever remember people taking the Old Rite for granted though. In my younger days Catholics were very reverent at Holy Mass & received the Sacraments regularly. It is only since VII that I can see a huge change in the nonchalant way the congregation behaves in church & I put this down to non-catchesis which was wilfully denied to fall in with Protestants, as was the rejection to evangelise. The sins of our Popes & Hierarchies are what we are being chastised so harshly for – the buck stops there. The fact that two have been canonised & one about to be leaves a bad taste in the mouth & many questions about changes to the canonisation process which used to take decades & more before being completed.
Bravo Ana, You hit the bull’s eye. We are baptised in the faith of the one holy catholic and apostolic church. We are not part of a Christian Federation, we should neither pander nor apologise for the sufferings of our brethren before us suffered under the luther cult or church of england and the last prophet was Saint John the Baptist. May those attempting to destroy the faith from outside or within be converted.
God is putting his people to the test – he gave us free will to follow him or NOT.
Will we follow Jesus Christ or Jorge Bergoglio,
Walter Kasper, et al?
Definitely not PF et al. I am not having a spiritual blackout but merely trying to make sense of present day prophesies & those to come, as we seem to be very close to Our Lady’s Triumph to be followed after some years of peace by the End Times.
I feel a sense of frustration when PF makes blatant departures from Catholic doctrine on several issues (the Lutheran issue, homosexuality, communion to the divorced and remarried, etc. etc.) and I try to bring this to the attention of Catholics who I know are strong in their faith, but also blind in following an errant pope. Their response is : Oh there are many who want to undermine the pope and the Church. We must not listen to fear mongering.
He is such a humble man.
I guess Satan is doing a good job of deceiving the sheep. This is my main lament – that good people refuse to stand up against the evil in our midst.
I agree with your perception that all this emanates from Satan – that is why I question why he was ever made in the first place, although I accept there must be some good reason it is still baffling to the ordinary Catholic & most probably our leadership as well.
PF’s insistence on accompanying people in sin together with his blatant preference for schismatics, heretics & pagans while continually admonishing his own flock for adhering to the teaching of Christ is paramount to saying he doesn’t believe in God & that Christ would have re-written the Ten Commandments long ago in order to keep up to a changing society. As we mortals know this is piffle & that is why he has no respect from catechised Catholics.
Those Catholics who consider PF the best thing since sliced bread comprise mainly of post VII un-catechised who lack the responsibility they need to take at this time in our history. While this lack of catechesis is not their fault (it was done deliberately to suit the false ecumenical agenda) it is up to each one to educate themselves by reading the pre VII Catholic Doctrine, Church History, Apologetics, lives of the saints etc. which can now be got from the internet, so little excuse for ignorance.
You are right, but I fear that many Catholics will go with the flow, too scared to rock the boat. However, God is in control and he is watching! We just need to be faithful.
Exactly. We are not empowered to do anything more.
CP, it makes us sad to see so many with hands over their eyes, and fingers stuck into their ears. This is what free will IS. Our Father knows – He gave them the ears and eyes and the hands and fingers. So those who do not see and hear do so because they want what the Pope and the world tell them they can have – with no consequences.
In effect they are CHOOSING to believe the lies. It makes me cry to see so many following the false prophets and wolves in bishops clothing. But nothing, nothing, nothing will change people from seeking the easy, comfortable, pleasurable road – other than a direct hit of Actual Grace. That’s what we ask Our Lady to distribute through her hands – the grace to see and hear. Rosaries!
Dear Barbara, it’s a blessing and grace to be able to see the reality. Yes it is depressing and frustrating and a lonely existence, however God never abandons anyone that seeks his help. I do not know if you know this but when Saint Bernadette of Lourdes was asked what scares you the most her response was bad Catholics. The situation in France at the time that Saint Bernadette was terrible the country was at war and many were worried about the country being invaded.
You’re right Barbara – the power of prayer is powerful. When I see how the US election is playing out, with radical pro-abortion Hillary and “Catholic” heretic Podesta being exposed, I know that God is in control. We need to do our part in exposing the rot in the Church and supporting those courageous clergy who are standing up for godly values in the public square. I just pray that Americans will get out and vote for Trump – while P. Francis has been ominously silent, many bishops and priests have boldly spoken up. God bless them.
Time for the Triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary? Fine. But where’s the footnote citing Charlie Johnston’s “Last Right Step” blog?
This *is* the time of Our Lady, and Her Immaculate Heart will triumph. At this point we just have to cling to God, do our duty, and help others as much as we can.
Our Priest says time and time again, if the Roman Catholic faith was not 100% the truth he would not be a Catholic. In other words he chose the true faith or God chose him and he would not be anything other than a Roman Catholic even if there were an alternative which was 90% true (Which there isn’t).
Good summary Steve. Same old stuff. Heresy lives! Pope pontificates. Lutherans and most Catholics celebrate “new understanding”. Angel weep. We pray. We wait. We pray. “The LORD gave and the LORD has taken away. Blessed be the name of the LORD.”
Job 1:21
These two “Catholics” obviously do not know the dogma that there is NO SALVATION outside the Catholic Church!
Bishop Schneider is spot on!
Although “elements” of the Catholic Church reside within the Protestant churches, the heresies which reside far outweigh any talk of “unity”, “preaching Christ”, and continue the schism.
This in NOT what Jesus taught and passed on to His Apostles.
The bottom line up front: The Council of Trent took care of all of this centuries ago. Additionally, it is NOT Catholics who need to cross the bridge to our “separated brethren” (as VII documents call them). Rather, it is they who must renounce their heretical beliefs and the apostasy that Protestantism keeps alive.
That Francis is even in Sweden for this “commemoration” is SCANDALOUS in and of itself. Rather, Francis should have went ONLY to admonish our “separated brethren” in the fashion of St. Paul to return to the one, true Faith.
Post VII ecumenism is rolling right along…
We, as Catholics, can NEVER compromise our infallible teachings- not even Francis. Yet that is what he is doing in Modernist fashion.
Al, the whole notion of “scandal” went out the window along with Thomism. “Admonishing” is such a scholastic, rigid term, don’t you know? And shame on you for referencing a pre-Vatican II council to support your position. We just don’t do that these days in Happy Church!, don’t you know?
Perhaps it is you who need to be admonished for your hardness of heart.
(sarcasm off)
I believe God is letting this happen for a reason……These questions I’m asking are not meant to be sarcastic: But do you think that at some point PF is going to exclaim?? – “I was just kidding!!” Or that “God is letting this happen…” means that God is having Francis pretend to be evil?? How many outrages will it take for you to stop calling this man “Holy Father”? Do you mean you say that because the “office” is holy, since it is?
I went for so long hung up on my fear that maybe I just don’t understand him, or the media twists everything he says, or that it’s just not possible for a “Pope”, any pope, to do what he does. It was inconceivable. To accept the truth that stared me in the face meant that I was cutting myself off from Christ and His church. But I can no longer deny realty, this man does not have the Catholic faith in His soul. In the “external forum” he is an apostate
The closest analogy I can think of is that Francis is like an abusive father who comes home from work thoroughly inebriated after his stop at the local watering hole, sees that his son has left his toys in the hall, blows up thoroughly out of proportion to the point of striking the child, then has the audacity to say to his terrified, helpless son, “See what you made me do!”
I have never seen anyone in any leadership position (save, perhaps, for Barack Obama) who projects his resentment, bitterness, and sense of being wronged upon others as often as Francis. Never.
I’d like to follow your analogy to see if it holds up to scrutiny.
The irresponsible father who gets drunk and psychogically/physically abuses his son – Is it possible to compare him to PF. They both “project” their “…resentment bitterness and sense of being wronged…” So far your analysis has been psychological.
If this guy is a baptized Catholic and his marriage is valid, what can he be accused of? His irresponsibility, drunkenness and betrayal of his son’s love are mortal sins, enough to condemn him to hell if he dies unrepentant.
At this point your analogy breaks down because his particular sins are not spiritual, even though all sins are spiritual since they offend God. But he has not attacked or denied or ridiculed his Catholic faith. He still has the true faith in His soul. However, his sins have separated him from God’s love.
Suppose he now starts to publically proclaim that there is no need to go to mass, that the mass is not a true sacrifice(meaning a bloodless representation of Calvary). He neglects his wife, and shacks up with a woman he met in a bar. Claims that the church has no missionary obligations. Dialogue is the way to go. He says the church should apologize to gays. And he is just getting warmed up.
Would you still think of him exclusively as an irresponsible abusive husband and father? Or are you now obliged to seriously consider if this man is a heretic or even an apostate?
The best example is St Peter cursing and taking the name of the Lord in vain, denying Christ while our Blessed Lord stands in shackles nearby.
The Pope is denying Christ.
First time here but have heard of this website before. I will preface by admitting I am not Catholic but I have to say I am very troubled by Francis’ words and actions.
I also have a question- would any of you would be opposed to a reunification with the Eastern Orthodox?
The heresies of the eastern schismatics (E.S.) have set me implacably against any reunification until they are repented of by the E.S.
Opposed? NO, we would be thrilled beyond compare for the Eastern Orthodox to come back home to the Catholic Church. This is what Jesus prayed for – “that they all be one, as You and I are One”. However, as in the case with Protestants, they have to be told in no uncertain terms that the qualifier for coming back is to acknowledge that they have LEFT the ONE TRUE CHURCH. After that acknowledgement all will be well.
Franciscus seems to think of his own self as a Holy See Special Snowflake
Francis does not promote Catholic Truth but rather freemasonry lies.
Jorge has a very large ego. He rejects the Sacred Scriptures, the collective wisdom of the Fathers, Tradition and orthodox teachings. He is full of himself!
It should be obvious to anyone with half a Catholic brain by now Francis is an ill formed, intellectually mediocre, half wit who bought into the zeitgeist of change for change sake back in the 60’s. He thinks his generation is the most important that ever lived, he reminds of an obnoxious 10 year old insisting on having it his way no matter what anyone thinks or says. He basks in his ego driven celebrity and has brought the Papacy to the level of a carnival barker show- I have now run out of patience or charity for this assclown and will not listen to another word he says. If my local Bishop doesn’t take sides against the ecumenical atrocity he’s spewing I’ll stop giving him money and find a Pius the Xth church which I have avoided to this point.
Part of the Devil’s plan is to get us fighting with each other over Truth, and also to drive us out of the Church. I agree that attending Mass with the Pius X group may be the only sane solution for those who are desperate and cannot find a good Mass. If you can find another alternative like the FSSP or an Indult Mass that would be good too. I don’t think running away from evil is a bad option. Guard your peace. Guard the Faith of yourself and your family. Flee from those who upset you and cause anger to well up in your heart.
I wonder if it’s a temptation to stay in an obviously bad parish. It is good to go each Sunday and grind your teeth in disgust and anger? I only wonder.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/cfb5951155d6b3dcfde63aa88eae7c188d6bbeaf6d43b55f8b7c126abfb0e16c.jpg
This is tragic beyond words. How many priests and nuns gave their very lives to bring the message of Jesus Christ and HIS CHURCH to pagans and barbarians? Did they give their lives for nothing? Were they guilty of sin? This is diabolical disorientation and we must pray many Rosaries for the conversion for this sad old apostate Francis so that Our Lady will save HIM from Hell.
I pray for Francis conversion everyday! The heretical bishops that he put into key positions will really mess up the Church for many decades. Yes, the rosary will help us. We live in such a terrible time though.
These hierarchs have all lost their capacity to reason in a logical manner. They treat “unity” as though it were an absolute good, whereas in reality it can only be a relative good. There can never be unity between truth and falsehood, between goodness and sin, between the Body of Christ and Belial. True unity can only exist where there is common faith in the Truth. It can never exist where there is simultaneous faith in Truth and faith in error.
It seems that the modernist path of ecumenism is to eliminate Truth so that all are united in error. The abandonment of the Great Commission began with the abandonment of Truth. There was little point in asking Koch whether he believed in the “One, true Church” when he has given no evidence of understanding the word “true” in the first place.
She [one of the protestant leader] told the Register she felt Pope Francis “doesn’t want us to be altogether as Catholics but remain as we are. We have to keep our identity and that’s the only way to become one church because unity is in diversity, and not in difference.”
How can there be unity when there are errors in the teachings of the Protestant sects?
How can there be unity when the errors lead people into GRAVE SINS? There are Lutherans who are pro-abortion and pro-contraception. THIS IS ALL A SHAM!!!!!
IS FRANCIS PUSHING A ONE WORLD RELIGION THROUGH PHONY ECUMENISM?
Yes!
When Pope Francis was in Georgia (the Russian Georgia, not the U.S. Georgia), he emphatically ordered Catholic seminarians “NOT to proselytize the Russian Orthodox”(who don’t believe in the primacy of the Pope, the Immaculate Conception, the sinlessless of Mary, among other heresies), and that “It is a GRAVE SIN AGAINST ECUMENISM TO PROSELYTIZE”.
So Ecumenism is a new Bergoglio dogma, against which the Pope accuses faithful Catholics of Mortal Sin should they “go into the whole world”… and preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
I too, am disheartened and confused. And quite frankly, angry!
There is nothing to be confused about. Once you realize that Francis is a Freemason then everything he is doing is part of the plan to implement the indifferentism, a heresy, promoted by that evil group. The smoke of satan has entered the Church.
Cf. Pope St. John Paul II and Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI on the matter: https://disqus.com/home/discussion/onepeterfive/remembering_the_sacrilege_of_assisi_i_thirty_years_later/#comment-2983261568
Had the people not been dumbed down first, Bergoglio would accomplish none of his unity in error. The Jesuit who despises doctrines as divisive, and who consistently undermined Church teaching back in Argentina, knows at this point, that the vast majority of the people want lies, not truth. They need truth, but want lies. Satan has been working on this outcome for a long time. Bergoglio is his perfect tool. He is an intellectually and morally bankrupt fool who thinks himself wise, a saviour of the world.
We should be like empty vessels ready to be filled with the Holy Spirit, to do His will. Bergoglio is filled with Marxism and social justice and sexual revolution. He is filled with globalism and pantheism. There is no room in his mind and heart for the Holy Spirit. He can no longer hear Him. It is impossible, an absurd idea, that some pro-abortionist climate alarmist or an Italian bicycle pump baby-killer would have answers that God does not have. Bergoglio has made these wicked souls into a god of surprises,
It is at times frightening, other times it seems surreal. It is a great tragedy, a hard to overestimate offence against reason, virtue, and most importantly – the Creator.
Bishop Schneider cannot be demoted as he is only Auxiliary, and obviously will never be promoted to any diocese while PF is alive. He is too rigid, hypocriical and lacking in mercy!!!
In my more charitable moments, I have pity for Pope Francis. How is it that he could go against Our Lord and His Church as he has done? He may be suffering from a disorientation, thinking that he’s doing the right thing. But for whom? Somewhere along the line, he became convinced that the Truths of the Catholic Faith are just fiction. Pray for his conversion. And proclaim the Truth.
How can he claim to be Catholic?
http://www.cfnews.org/page88/files/095b64d8209865c85db0ece1ade48127-626.html