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Is Pope Francis Opening the Doors of the Church to “Queer Theology”?

Image: Father José Tolentino de Mendonça; Source: Screengrab

By Lupo Glori  

Is Pope Francis opening the doors of the Church to “queer theology”? The question arises spontaneously after learning that the Portuguese priest-poet José Tolentino de Mendonça has been asked to direct the upcoming and now-traditional Lenten retreat which will be given in Ariccia, Italy, to Pope Bergoglio and members of the Roman Curia.  Mendonça is known to be a fan of Sister Maria Teresa Forcades i Vila, a theologian noted for her “queer” positions and who is presently in Italy to promote her book We are all Diverse! In Favor of a Queer Theology (Castelvecchi Editore).

As reported by L’Osservatore Romano, the Lenten retreat scheduled for February 18-23 in Ariccia at the Casa del Divin Maestro will be directed by the priest-poet, Vice Rector of the Catholic University of Lisbon and consultor of the Pontifical Council for Culture, who has chosen “The Praise of Thirst” as the theme of his meditations.

But who is Sr. Teresa Forcades? Forcades is a nun of a cloister near the Benedictine monastery of Montserrat who travels the world to spread the word – the contemporary homosexualist “word” – within the Catholic Church. She spoke in this role on Thursday, February 1, in Reggio Emilia, as part of a series of conferences on “The Theology of Women”, held to promote the acceptance of homosexuality in the Catholic Church. As the “Christian LGBT” website explains, “there are women theologian protagonists who, with their capacity for analysis, succeed in characterizing and giving a specific value to theological thought, in order to offer a new point of view, different, renewing, inclusive, addressing those who feel themselves to be at the ‘margins’ of the Church.”

Interviewed at the margins of her presentation, the Spanish sister emphasized how the rapport between the Church and homosexuality is finally changing thanks to the advent of Pope Francis, who has tried to do what he could through holding the Synod on the Family in order to change the attitude of the Church in the face of homosexuality:

I think that Pope Francis attempted to make a step forward in this sense with the Synod on the Family; he did not succeed in doing it, but it is not the same atmosphere now as it was when there was not Pope Francis. For example, Sr. Jeannine Gramick, who worked in the United States for many years for acceptance not only for being homosexual but also for homosexual activity, for physical homosexual love, has said that from the time Pope Francis arrived she no longer faced the pressure she had endured previously to not do this type of apostolate.

Forcades further specified how in South America and in Oceania, the local Churches are taking important “steps forward” in dialogue with homosexuals, in a much more rapid way than is happening in Europe, admitting, however, that recently, beginning with the arrival of the Argentine Pope, her own experience has been that she is finding that doors are much more open: “My experience up until now has been that I have found more groups and people who support me, who endorse me, and who are close to me.”

Forcades is thus a religious sister who has clearly been “deployed.” She has never made a mystery of her heterodox positions on the matter of sexuality and the “renewal” of the Church, and because of this she has been celebrated and carried in the palm of the hand by the cultural mainstream, which favors a “queer revolution” within the Catholic Church.

On April 19, 2015 in an interview with Corriere della Sera, when asked if she was in favor of gay marriage, she gave this response:

Yes, because sexual identities should not be considered as closed boxes which God wants to be complementary to each other and which must remain forever that way, fixed in separate, defined roles. I live in the world and I see persons of the same sex who love each other, and I ask myself, ‘Why must they be wrong?” They seem happy, they truly love each other. Why can they too not receive a blessing? Why not within the Church? Why shouldn’t we rejoice at the sight of any love, whatever form it takes?’

A few months later, on February 9, 2016, she further clarified her thought on this matter in La Repubblica, responding to the question, “What do you think about civil unions and homosexual marriage, can they be considered as a sacrament, can they function in the eyes of God and of society?” as follows: “A sacrament is the manifestation of the love of God in space and time. Love is always a sacrament of God as long as each person’s freedom is respected.

Possessive love, on the other hand, even if it is between a man and a woman, cannot be sacramental in the deeper sense of the term.” Asked further about her thought about children who are “adopted” by a homosexual family, with two fathers or two mothers, the “queer theologian” explained that she did not see any sort of problem with it: “Yes, absolutely. What children need is a love that is adult, mature, and responsible on the part of the parents, who place their child’s needs before their own and who at the same time know how to set good limits for them to help them to grow. The fact of growing up with two women or two men does not represent any kind of problem.”

It therefore seems inconceivable, unless it is revealing that there is a specific “political agenda” within the Catholic Church, that the Vatican would choose Jose Tolentino de Mendonca as the spiritual director of the Pope’s Lenten Retreat in Ariccia, a priest known for his ties to a personality so “exposed” and discussed as Sr. Teresa Forcades. These ties, based on an evident commonality of thought, are made clear by a book written by the Catalan sister entitled Feminist Theology in History (A Teologia Feminista Na História), in which the priest-poet has dedicated a flattering preface to her work, praising her original ideas, saying that Western Civilization (and the Church) would do well to treasure them:

Perhaps the history of Western civilization would have been different if a symbolic, open, and sensible way of approaching reality had been adopted, instead of the univocal triumphal language that we are familiar with. I repeat: perhaps history would have been different. And it is exactly here that this extraordinary work of the feminist theologian of history Teresa Forcades i Vila, which you are holding in your hand, comes to our assistance.

Tolentino de Mendonça emphasizes how the apostolate of Forcades ought to be taken as a model to “liberate” Christianity from the dogmatic bindings of past and present:

“Teresa Forcades I Vila is an author who, for many reasons, is worth having. (…) Whatever she does, her method is courageously the same: she points out contradictions and seeks for alternative interpretations which support a rupture of meaning and civility. One of the convictions with which this book leaves us is that the future of Christianity greatly depends on the process of “clearing out” of its past and present that we will be able to accomplish. There has been a lot of silencing, too much life that has been submerged, a cultural repression that makes history, in its dominant version, hide what it addresses and move it in other directions. The Gospel of John says that “the Spirit blows where it wills” (John 3:8), but history has not always known that. Now, we need to listen to the same history told in another way, recounted by other voices, by unfamiliar words, starting with other experiences.”

The merit of Sister Forcades, always according to Tolentino de Mendonça, would be that of having placed in evidence the importance of the ethics of relationship free from rigid norms and codifications:

Teresa Forcades I Vila reminds us of the essential thing: that Jesus of Nazareth did not codify laws or lay down rules. Jesus simply lived. That is, he constructed an ethic of relationship; he embodied the poetry of his message in the visibility of his flesh; he displayed his own body as a premise.

What spiritual fruits will the participants of the retreat in Ariccia be able to obtain, given these premises?

Originally published at Corrispondenza Romana. Translated by Giuseppe Pellegrino

229 thoughts on “Is Pope Francis Opening the Doors of the Church to “Queer Theology”?”

    • BXVI got rid of tons of worthless bishops. That got no press. It’s probably why they got rid of him.

      Walsh’s Characters of the Inquisition is excellent, if you really want to know more about it. Quite a shock. Our image of Torquemada would be unrecognizable to anyone in his time who knew him.

  1. It sounds appalling. The speaker invited to give the retreat, sgnals to the rest of the Church ,– hey get on board with the new orientation for the institutional church and make way for any of these gbltq speakers.

    • That has been the tried and true modus operandi for a very long time. Saint Pius X described the modernists with prophetic accuracy, and this was before Alinksy ever came on the scene. Infiltrate, subvert, destroy. Those are the marching orders. These folks are very loyal to the cause, and that is why Catholics fail who refuse to see this, the modernist relies on willful ignorance of the ‘respectable Catholic’ and his refusal to face reality.

      • Well we do have a serious problem. We know we need to be in communion with the Pope. The Pope is the sign of unity. It is very scary to be potentially dependent on some group with no Divinely appointed leader. Well at least we will come to a deeper understanding of how it felt to be a Catholic living in England in the time of Henry Viii and his daughter. There was no Catholic ecclesial leader for those brave Catholic lailty. We could be coming to a time when as in the earliest days in Jerusalem when the Apostles and early Jewish Christian converts continued to go pray in the Temple until finally they were thrown out by the Jews. So the Jews threw out the true Jews!

  2. If this continues (and I believe it is) there will be a rupture and a splitting into many factions of the Church. The next 5 years is going to be very rough.

    • Daniel,

      There is already a massive multiple de facto schism on every doctrinal point you can think of: transubstantion, the Trinity, ecumenism, Catholic social teaching, religious liberty, sexual ethics, the Incarnation and Resurrection. The only question is when will this multiple schism become official. Obviously one massive factor preventing structural splits is our age old enemy: The Love Of Money. As long as the heretics can continue to suckle on the huge unified resources of the Church, they will try to stay inside. It’s horribly cold outside. Look at the more pathetic fragments from earlier splits, such as the Old Catholic Churches. The German heretics can still see the few Old Catholic churches in Germany and know what awaits them if they split.

      • I think that’s just it William, I don’t think there ever will be an ‘official’ schism of any kind. Rather, what we are seeing is the ‘Big Tent’ theology of ‘All are Welcome!’. Rather than the Pure Spotless Bride of Christ, what we’ll have is a religious free-for-all where anyone and everyone can be a part of the “church” and do whatever they want. Of course by then, what will be the point? The only people who won’t be welcome are those who hold to the perennial teaching of the Church.

  3. Those in the Curia should refuse to attend this retreat!
    Those cardinals who will remain silent in the throes of this greatest apostasy, are in a very precarious way.
    I would rather lose my mitre, or my collar, than lose my soul.
    As I have always told my children, ” There is nothing, absolutely nothing worth losing your soul for: not even your flesh and blood.” Seriously now.

  4. Maybe the nun confused the word apostasy with apostolate?
    I actually feel better now that they are flaunting this filth in your face, not pretending anymore.

  5. This has been a long time coming. A long time coming. Back in 1994 I was a sophomore at a Jesuit College. During a discussion in the chaplain’s office he says to me “We’re building a new church. We’re moving on from the past, from the old dogmas. It’s a new era, an exciting time”. He went on an on in the vein for some time. I had no idea what he was talking about at the time, but in retrospect he was letting me in on a secret and hoping I was game.

    Two years later this Jesuit priest was dismissed for having an affair with one of his male students. Of course the local diocese took him in and gave him a parish.

    I had the naive misfortune of joining the “chaplaincy team” my last year there. I was young and fair game for such nonsense–I played guitar ect at the liturgy (shudders) and helped with retreats ect. During a discussion of the committee (I was one of the few Catholics on it, most of the 6-7 students were from mainline protestant ones) the discussion moved to how we must remove God the Father, Son from the prayers. Everyone nodded and agreed, including the Catholic professor and the Jesuit dean. I of course stridently objected saying that you can’t delete the Trinity without abandoning the Faith altogether. I still remember the 57 year old Jesuit Dean, sitting and glaring off into space, red-faced and shaking with rage as I spoke. Some of the women left in tears.

    As a seminarian I was privy to looking behind the Wizard of Oz’s curtain. In private discussions with certain Novus Ordo Bishops, it was clear that they did hot have the Catholic Faith. What shocked me was how cavalier they were about admitting so–but I was being initiated into the “club” so they felt safe enough around me, the careful facade could be dropped.

    When I speak about widespread apostasy, I mean it. People are finally taking this seriously, but it’s much too late.

    Francis is an apostate full stop.

    I know his ilk. I was educated by his confreres, and believe me, they gave me an ‘education’ worth its weight in gold.

    • Matt, you say this occurred in 1994, which was at the height of JPII’s papacy. Your account reinforces what I’ve been saying all along: JPII did more damage to the Church than most people are willing to admit. Nobody can tell me he didn’t know about the kind of thing you’re describing.

      • Definitely Joseph. This apostasy has been widespread certainly in Europe, Australia, North and South American since the 1970’s. There is no way, as a seminarian, I could turn around without bumping into one of these people. JPII had a much broader exposure to the rot than did I, but his approach was to deny, deflect, and protect as he did with Fr. Maciel, Cardinal Law, and God only knows, legions of others.

        • Matt,

          From a British perspective, everything that you say makes perfect sense. The stories about rampant sodomy at the English College in Rome and Allen Hall (aka Alice Hall) in London are legion. My favourite was the wretched rector at the English College who told his seminarians not to call each other by female names. He apparently did not advise them to seek alternative careers in ladies’ hairdressing or fashion design. No wonder vocations to the priesthood are at an all time low. Bad money drives out good. And total doctrinal chaos instantly kills vocations to a celibate priesthood which depends on doctrinal certainty

          • The story gets even more bizarre William, when I graduated seminary in 1999 I had a classmate in my same year. Guess who he was? This was a guy I lived in community with. If you don’t remember “Mr Swirl Face” google him. He was that abominable child abuser hunted internationally and whose case was covered by all the major networks circa 2007! Now I’ve spoken how being a seminary in the Novus Ordo damaged me in spirit, but Deo gratias I made it out better than he. We’re talking serious demonic possession. I believe the seminary and the Novus Ordo at large was a gateway to it.

          • Wow! I googled him as you suggest here. Sickening, a case I had not heard of. For anyone tempted to think yours is somehow an isolated experience, I have a suggestion. Go to the files available online [] and read the actual documents for places as disparate as Manchester,NH, Fort Worth, TX, and Argentina. Nothing like first-hand accounts make a pattern eventually take form in one’s mind. There is nothing — NOTHING! — benign about the sodomite scourge currently being visited on the Catholic Church worldwide. St. Paul warned us about these devils and we’d better listen to him.

          • Thanks, Matt. I had not heard of Mr Swirl Face – I cannot remember if his vile crimes got any coverage in England. He moved to the right country to indulge his crimes. In 2007 I was chased down a street in Bangkok by a pimp waving an illustrated catalogue of his girls. Not a seedy back street – a main street where the America Library is sited.

      • The cult of JPII is too strong for many otherwise “orthodox/conservative” Catholics to overcome. Even if you list all his administrative failings (e.g., making Bergoglio a cardinal), questionable/embarrassing/borderline heretical public activities (Assisi, anyone?), and bizarre papal teachings and writings (Theology of the Body, unprecedented teaching on capital punishment), people will STILL say, “But . . . But . . . But he defeated Communism! But . . . But it would have been so much worse if he wasn’t pope! But . . . But he rescued the Church from the insanity of the ’70s!” Et cetera.

        It’s a problem. A real problem, in that JPII is seen as infallible in all areas of his pontificate and personal life. The blindness prevents people from realizing what I all-too-late came to understand: that there would be no Francis without the papacy of JPII to prepare us to accept novelty as the authentic Will of God.

        • I think that his greatest long term living error was that he saw the devil only in communism, but never has even a doubt about the devil in liberalism promoted and even pushed through the throat of people by so-called democratic regimes. He should knew that devil is very smart, and he plays very cunningly and sophistically his End-Game.
          He made not one, but two camps, so that man thinks that one of his two camps is better than the other and decides for that one as the only good option. But someone who is vicar of Christ should (must!) know, that there is no left or right side which leads us to Christ, but just and only on the exact straight way.
          His second long-term error, which is not less grave than the first one, is his heterodoxy.

          • That’s funny isn’t it because when I’ve listened to people who have had first hand experience with communism and socialism they are acutely aware that the end goal of liberalism is in fact socialism/communism.

          • It is Melanie. It is also another way, which we can say so, – the devils communism has not really died, he will end in the form of social-liberalism. These both ideologies are and were heavily used by Satan as his main tools/weapons against the Church and of course all other people who don’t belongs to the Church. And even those who even works for satan himself. Only thing is, they don’t see that because they are totally deceived. But the Church should and must know that! And the Church knew that certainly very well,… until the false spirit, the so-called smoke of satan has entered deep into the Church, firstly and then still very sneaky and secretly a few decades before IIVC, but then, with IIVC and after it we had to deal with who? With the progressives and modernists, who are the sons of not one kind, but all kind of heresies. That’s why they who are deceived are so much deceived that they can watch but cannot see, and can hear, but cannot understand…

            “And the prophecy of Isaias is fulfilled in them, who saith: By hearing you shall hear, and shall not understand: and seeing you shall see, and shall not perceive.
            For the heart of this people is grown gross, and with their ears they have been dull of hearing, and their eyes they have shut: lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.”
            (Matthew 13,14-15)

        • I overcame it. I have more pity for him than anything.
          But, you are so correct in all you write here.
          We must look at how we got to this point…….. And btw, that Theology of the Body has done more harm than good in my opinion. THAT book is read in so many Catholic High Schools to this day.

          When I first read about this Assisi visit, I just could not imagine this.
          What was he thinking? And……I understand it was under JPll whereby we have this brother and sister living arrangement for divorced people, which I truly believe was promoting deception, and did not foster any possibility for reunion of the married couple.

          • Not only that. When adulterers are allowed to (stay) and live together “as brother and sister”, are they not condemned to be excluded of the gift to be a part of the procreation, what sacrament of Matrimony actually IS?
            Another thing which you maybe still don’t know is this:
   (Take a look on that last sentence)
            And this, which explain not exactly WHAT he was thinking, but you’ll surely be able after reading this, to connect some more very important dots…

          • I used to think sedes were paranoid conspiracy theorists. I am not so sure any longer. God forgive me, and Steve, Jafin, Brian or Fr. RP can remove this if they want, but I don’t know any longer. How can a man like JPII be a saint with all this baggage, and how can Paul VI even be under consideration? Nothing makes sense any longer. The Father of Lies has sown so much confusion, even among traditionalists, that we can’t even agree amongst ourselves on what is real and what is false.

          • I think because I came so late in the game, it never even occurred to me that they were anything even close to paranoid conspiracy theorists and I was shocked that so many people not only didn’t give they’re not crazy theories any consideration but they are passionately told to shut up and get out. Seems unreasonable given the state of affairs.

          • Keep it simple… Christ. He sees it all and knew of this moment as He suffered the Passion and looked down upon the whole world as He hung from the Cross.
            Our Lord wanted one Church. He never gave us a prescription for these moments in the Church, yet He knew they would come.

            I understand how so many have felt abandoned, been betrayed, distrust. I have felt it too.
            And this terrible distrust among different factions of traditionalists, I pray will end.

          • I read somewhere that the worst heretic is one who is 99% orthodox or seems to be. That 1% of heresy spread by such a person does more damage than the heretic who is known to be a heretic. These popes of the last 50 or so years were modernists in different degrees. They approved of what went on at VII. They allowed progressive/modernist ideologies to prosper under their watch. We are where we are because of them. I think it’s like having a grandparent that you loved and then they die. You go to their house afterwards to go through their things and you find items that indicate they weren’t who you thought they were. They deceived you on the outside. It is a very sad circumstance that we are in now. The great majority of Catholics and priests are modernists and progressives. It will be centuries before they can be overcome. It is up to us to keep and nurture Catholic Tradition for the future Catholic generations. Not an easy task but we must carry on with it no matter the costs.

          • I don’t have time to analyze them now, but the reports that popped up in my Twitter feed this morning about the supposed miracles seem dubious at best. My gut tells me this is nothing more than an attempt to canonized the Council itself; hence the rush to canonize every pope that has reigned since 1965.

            Again, I just don’t know what to believe any more.

          • I’ve noticed that under JP2, that many saints were “fast-tracked” on the way to sainthood.

            And if I remember correctly, JP2 cannonized 482 saints during his pontificate.

            In essence, he turned it into a saint factory, and in doing so, I believe that he took away some of the sanctity of the whole process of recognizing individuals worthy of “Sainthood”. Better to be thorough and prudent rather than hasty and foolhardy.

          • I know. Paul VI was a weak pope and that is the very least of what he seems to have been. And the ‘miracles’ are not without questions as to if they really are.

          • It is strange to me that no one in the Vatican seems to remember that the message to Melanie Calvat at LaSalette said that there would be people canonized who were still in purgatory and even some in hell. The relaxed rules for canonization would easily allow that very thing. In the past, time was a factor of proof. If, after 50 or 100 years, the devotion of the common people persisted there was reason to investigate. What I see now is an attempt to bolster the Post Vatican II attitude and teachings by canonizing any and all Popes since. I’m not saying whether they are or are not Saints. I only say there should be much more time before there is even a consideration to investigate. There were Saints in the past canonized sooner but do any of these newer Saints equal Saint Anthony of Padua and others like him?

          • Not condemned, just not approved as prophecy which must be accepted. This is and has always been the attitude of the Church about such things. Many high ranking clergymen prefer to consider them as condemned or in error but a condemnation has never been issued. Even my late uncle, Bishop Herbert Hermes, who did not believe them to the best of my knowledge, would never tell me they were condemned. He had the attitude that in his mind there were some parts which were questionable. We disagreed on other issues also, such as the Ancient Rite of the Roman Mass vs the Novus Ordo Missae.

          • Dear Sgt. Sorry, you are wrong. Her message was condemned:

            that Melanie wrote her new tract, full of bitter invective against a supposedly faithless clergy. Not contrary to faith and morals in the narrow sense, it received an imprimatur, but in 1880 the Holy Office forbade her to write further tracts. Few copies of the 1879 tract were circulated, and it was published again more widely in 1904. A third printing in 1922, with a new imprimatur, finally resulted in Rome’s placing of the tract on the Index of Prohibited Books in 1923. The decree of the Holy Office reads:



            Feria IV, die 9 maii 1923

            In generali consessu Supremae Sacrae Congregationis S. Officii Emi ac Rmi Domini Cardinales fidei et moribus tutandis praepositi proscripserunt atque damnaverunt opusculum: L’apparition de la trés Sainte Vierge sur la montague de la Salette le samedi septembre 1846.—Simple réimpression du texte intégral publié par Mélanie, etc. Societé Saint-Augustin, Paris-Rome-Bruges, 1922;

            [Acta Apostolicae Sedis (1923) {PDF}, pp. 287-288. See also related decrees of the Holy Office.]

            Note that the condemned 1922 version (damnatur opusculum, “condemned minor work”) is nothing more than a simple reprinting of Melanie’s original text of 1879, so Melanie’s original text is what is being condemned. This judgment naturally supersedes the imprimatur of any local bishop, and as Cardinal Ratzinger has stated, the Index retains its moral force for Catholics, notwithstanding the fact that the list is no longer updated.

            To this day, this condemned tract is widely reprinted (often with thirty-three numbered paragraphs), ironically among the most devout and traditional Catholics. Relying on the authority of the imprimatur and on the status of La Salette as an approved apparition, many well-meaning Catholics have come to believe that this anticlerical diatribe is actually endorsed by the Church. Schismatically-oriented traditionalists find in it vindication of their belief that Rome has in fact lost the faith, as have most of the world’s bishops. Others take seriously the fantastic apocalyptic details concocted by Melanie’s feverish imagination. Sober-minded people may recoil from the booklet’s wild claims, and, mistaking this for the authentic message of La Salette, may come to disbelieve in La Salette, and in Marian apparitions more generally.


          • It is of interest to note that in his homily for his illegal and sacrilegious consecration of Bishops. Msgr. Lefebvre mentioned this putative message of Melanie as part of his justification for what he was doing.

            So a faux message from Mary was cited in defense of the indefensible.

            And folks wonder why trads have such a questionable reputation

          • O, and I should note that me dad was a seminarian at LaSalette back in the day.

            I have his Dom Gaspar Lefebvre Daily Missal which he received from his Mom and Dad on the occasion of his reception into LaSalette on Feb 2, 1935 and also for his February 3, 1935 Birthday,

            Obviously Dad did not complete his Seminary training but his brother, My Uncle. Father Francis, did and he was a LaSalette Priest stationed in New Hamster for scores of years and we used to laugh about this so-called vision.

          • And when I attended Cor Divinum preparatory seminary in the 1950’s this message of Melanie Calvat was still being discussed as having value by priests who were instructing us. That, to me says there is more to the story that should be investigated.

          • 4. False Version of Melanie’s Secret

            Unfortunately, Melanie was not content to let her prophetic legacy remain in the Vatican archives. Although her personal conduct was generally exemplary, she later found it difficult to comply with cloistered life, and was heavily influenced by lurid apocalyptic writings, as well as less than scrupulous advisors who wished to coax the secret out of her.

            Finally, in 1879, she released a greatly expanded version of the secret, including new interpretations of the true secret as well as completely new revelations unmentioned in the 1851 version. All these new embellishments were indiscriminately ascribed to Our Lady of La Salette, resulting in an apocalyptic tract many times longer than the authentic secret submitted to the Pope in 1851. This tract contained prophecies that were either in tension with the Catholic faith, as in its assertion that Rome would apostatize, or, more commonly, proven to be historically false in the course of time.

            This false apocalypse circulated under the title of Apparition of the Blessed Virgin on the Mountain of La Salette, bearing the imprimatur of Bishop Zola of Lecce. The fact that a French tract had to seek the imprimatur of an Italian bishop should arouse our suspicions, and indeed, Melanie had been instructed by her bishop not to publish any prophecies. After joining a convent in 1851, Melanie invented fantastic stories of her miraculous childhood, playing with the child Jesus and leading animals in a religious procession. Her behavior became progressively bizarre, as she had hysterical fits and threatened to bite her superior. She was never allowed to become a sister, and instead was sent off to England in 1855. There she claimed to hear voices and witness miraculous events. Away from her bishop, she began to make apocalyptic prophecies.

            After years of moving from convent to convent, and never progressing beyond the novitiate, Melanie stayed in Castellamare from 1867 onward. When new religious orders were being formed at La Salette in 1878, Melanie claimed she was authorized to provide their rules and habits. This request was denied by the bishop and by the Pope himself in an interview with Melanie.

            It is in reaction to this thorough rejection by the Church hierarchy that Melanie wrote her new tract, full of bitter invective against a supposedly faithless clergy. Not contrary to faith and morals in the narrow sense, it received an imprimatur, but in 1880 the Holy Office forbade her to write further tracts. Few copies of the 1879 tract were circulated, and it was published again more widely in 1904. A third printing in 1922, with a new imprimatur, finally resulted in Rome’s placing of the tract on the Index of Prohibited Books in 1923.


            It is not surprising that an American Seminary would be speculating about condemned works and we do know that we Catholics were warned about many false prophets which were to come…

          • I don’t think there were that many problems in American Seminaries in the 1950’s relating to such subjects. I remember after the death of Pope Pius XII and the election of Pope John XXIII, both of which happened while I was a student at Cor Divinum, when talk of a council began there were serious concerns among the priests. A minority, one from Holland actually, spoke in favor of major changes. The rest calmly stated that the changes being proposed by this one could never happen. These may have been Americans, Italians and Germans but they were very serious and prayerful, at least back then. Only the priest from Holland advocated change.

          • Sgt Pops,

            Thanks so much for helping to cement my suspicions on the timeline of VAT2. No great surprise that the subversive student hailed from Holland – or that a church in Holland is now crammed with the furnishing of countless redundant churches.



            Fascinating footnote from the ordination statistics from England and Wales. A recent extraordinary peak in ordinations for England and Wales occurred in 1965: 213 priests ordained. The typical figure in the 1950s was around 150 per year.

            In 2009 ( probably an all-time disaster): 14 ordained. After 45 years of the glorious fruits of VAT2, the priesthood was being utterly hollowed out. Ordinations never got anywhere near that 1965 peak again.

            Those ordained in that bumper year of 1965 would obviously have started their 6 years in seminary in 1959 and, most likely, made their firm mental commitment to the priesthood before the announcement of VAT2 early in 1959. Your description of the effects on seminarians of merely announcing a Council suggests that merely the suggestion of likely change is enough to hit vocations to a celibate priesthood, which depends on doctrinal certainty.

          • William Murphy
            The subversive wasn’t a student, he was one of our priest instructors. There were many instances of concern in those years. My uncle, a Benedictine, was ordained in 1960 and because of talk about changes in the Mass almost decided against being ordained. He allowed himself to be convinced that there would never be changes that would affect the Mass and was ordained. Later he was sent to Brazil and a few years later was made Bishop of Crystalandia, a territorial prelacy. Sadly, he embraced all the changes and social issues.
            Many people began leaving the Church even in 1964 with the so-called Dialogue Mass saying “How can I pray with all that noise?”

          • Yes and Saint Joan of Arc died an excommunicated heretic and had her ashes thrown into the river, and she was regarded as such for centuries.

          • All I know Might Joe is that her message warned of dirt bags and heretics taking over and wrecking the Church. In that respect she’s was 100% prescient. If there was actual heresy in her writings that warranted condemnation, than I’ll change my view of her today. Contrast her prophecies to those of John XXIII (we are at the cusp of a New Springtime) and John Paul II (we are Crossing the Threshold of Hope) and it becomes apparent who’s prophecies should be condemned.

          • If I’m not mistaken, Matt, it took around 500 years for her canonization even though she was a martyr. You don’t seem to have the problem some others have. I’m sure you have noted that some seem to have nothing but anger when their toes get stepped on but Jesus himself said in the Gospels that the “Bride” (the Church) must go the same way as the “Bridegroom” (Jesus Christ). Since Jesus was condemned to the secular authorities by the True Church of the time, why shouldn’t we expect the same for the Bride? The only difference I see is that the Jewish Church is no longer the True Church. After our Crucifixion the Church will rise again the same as the Bridegroom.

          • Because Saint John Paul was humble and so the Living God exalted Him! Stop being holier and wiser and all knowing than the Beloved….the enemy has prowled through pride and has won victories here!! Let us return to the Light of the Triune Beloved!

          • Boy Padre, I sure got the impression that LB236 was pretty darned humbly submitting that he didn’t know what the heck was going on anymore and that confusion is reigning everywhere in the Beloved Body of Christ. I think accusing him of being holier and wiser and all knowing than the Beloved is a real stretch of credulity. I also think that it’s a cudgel that has beaten down many a curious Catholic over the last 50 years and it seems quite wrong.

          • Being a saint does not mean being infallible. Nor is an infallible pope on faith and morals, impeccable in his daily dealings. Saintliness is not impeccability. It is living heroically for God and giving yourself to Him. St. John Paul II made many mistakes:think altar girls for one. Everyone but Jesus Christ will disappoint. Don’t expect anything else. Worship God alone!

          • I can’t speak for any of the other mods for certain, but I doubt you’ll find any of us having any issue with what you’ve said. Supposedly Paul VI got his “miracle” so we should expect a day to be announced in the coming weeks I’d imagine…

            As for the division… I think we, as traditionalists, focus too much on it. We need to stop.

            As an example, I think I would be considered a very odd traditionalist in that I assist at Mass weekly and sometimes more at an Ordinariate parish. There’s a FSSP parish I was going to for some time… but the lay people were hesitant to not willing to accept my wife and I there. We could go to Mass but simply couldn’t find a way into parish life. At the Ordinariate parish we can. The liturgy is reverent and quite similar to the TLM in most ways, just in Cranmerian English. Teaching is 100% orthodox and traditional (zero fuzzy ecumenism, zero false mercy, 100% truth.) And my family has been accepted as an important part of parish life. The liturgy isn’t in Latin though. Some would argue that doesn’t make me a real traditionalist… if that’s the case I don’t wanna be called a “trad.”

            The point is… we need to stop worrying in our daily lives so much about all the differences and what’s happening in the upper echelons of the church. Yes we need to pay attention and know what’s coming down the pike. But daily we need to focus on the 3 pillars of the spiritual life: prayer (daily devoted meditative prayer of at least 15 minutes), mortification (fasting is the best way, and more than just Ember days and obligatory days, but willingly) and almsgiving (getting outside of ourselves and committing to the works of mercy… recycling does not count FRANCIS!!!) It is in the practice of the spiritual life and building up our parishes as holy people that we will survive. We need to live virtuous lives. That said… more blood will be spilt, and I suspect it will be literal blood in such currently safe places as the United States before the end. So get Holy while it’s “easy.”

          • If Benedict XVI’s resignation was flawed, by misapprehension, coercion, or both, then none of Bergoglio’s canonizations are valid.

            A thesis should not be judged as correct or incorrect based on whether it is emotionally pleasing or displeasing, but only on whether it is true.

          • How can you reunion married couple if husband beats his wife etc..? Unfortunately in some cases there is no possibility for reunion.

          • Every man and woman can change with help of God’s love. But what if someone doesn’t want? Do we really need to thight them with rope? In my opinion it is better for them to live separated.
            I don’t know, that is my opinion..

          • I’m not talking about want to change–Bruno certainly didn’t want to change; St. Paul certainly didn’t want to be blinded on the road to Damascus.

            Do we really need to tie them with a rope? WE don’t do anything. They said their vows in front of God and promised to love, honor and obey all their lives in good or bad, etc.

          • That may be true. But it still does not allow a person to ‘marry’ someone else while their spouse is alive. Separation may occur however.

          • A reunion may indeed be impossible, and the two may need to remain separate for the remainder of their lives.
            But, I ask you to think of this: When two people marry, not only have they taken vows to each other, but are duty bound to get each other to Heaven; for the two have become one.

            When one spouse tragically succumbs to grave sin, and the other must leave the residence for safety, in time, perhaps the spouse in grave sin may wish to change and amend his or her ways, knowing that someone on this earth still had hope for him or for her, ( being the other spouse). But, if the injured spouse, connects to another, all hope may be lost for the offending party.

            This living as brother and sister arrangement, concocted by JP ll, is so riddled with problems because again: one cannot act married, unless one is truly married.

          • With grace there is always the possibility unless we prevent it ourselves. There is an obligation of the married to reunite if it is possible to do so (the sinning party(ies) repent and turn away from their wickedness.) If you’re bound up in another “union” even if not sexually, the possibility is basically gone.

        • Few remember that a letter from Pope John Paul II to AmBishop encouraged them to keep the matter of queer clergy quiet so as to not cause a scandal.. That letter arose in the context of lawyer rummaging through Cardinal Law’s files.

          Or course, there is no connection between that letter and Law splitting for Rome and being assigned a plum parish and escaping jail for his crimes.

        • ….again….Stop judging God and HIS SAINT… not become deadly foolish with temptations and deceits… might as well blame the Living God Himself since He is not stopping but letting the evils come about and continue, after all the Lord can actually do something about all of them…..Wisdom Be Attentive! Saint Paul Miki and Companions, pray for us!

        • The only thing that needs to be said about JPII is this: this man, as the Holy Father, Supreme Pontiff, Vicar of Christ, the Pope kissed the Qu’ran. Who cares if he defeated communism? He rejected Christ in that moment. Before that he rejected the Church at Assisi in favor of religious indifferentism. Maybe he repented before his death (the current establishment and traditional understanding of infallible Magisterium would indicate he did) and I certainly hope he did.

          So JPII defeated communism? Let’s stop and look at Nancy Pelosi, Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders and the Antifa folks and let them know communism is dead. Better yet, let’s go tell the underground bishops and faithful of China there’s nothing left to worry about since communism is gone… oh wait, Bergoglio is all over that already! Oh you just meant the Soviet Union? You mean Ronald Reagan’s nukes and the natural disorder and unrest communism causes had nothing to do with it? Yeah… JPII was a really great pope.

          /sarcasm off

          By all reports it sounds like Karol Wojtyla was a personally holy man. He did seem to love God and cared for Christ, and really cared a lot about people. But objectively speaking John Paul II was a terrible pope.

      • Stop judging God and HIS SAINT… not become deadly foolish with temptations and deceits… might as well blame the Living God Himself since He is not stopping but letting the evils come about and continue, after all the Lord can actually do something about all of them…..Wisdom Be Attentive! Saint Paul Miki and Companions, pray for us!

        • Oh, please, Padre, open your eyes and look around you. Do you think Francis is an anomaly? Do you think that being an officially declared saint absolves John Paul of the responsibility for the current rot pervading the Church? Do you think that a holy, righteous God will ignore what is going on and who is responsible?

          God will judge the late Pope far more harshly than I or anybody else ever could. God is not moved by what ecclesiastical bureaucracies do in His Name. God has His own Character and Integrity, and He has no tolerance for “false shepherds,” especially those who claim to represent the “one true Church” that teaches “the fullness of the Gospel.” Read Jeremiah 23 and Ezekiel 34 and ask yourself whether they could well be describing the current hierarchy.

        • Padre, do you know why God is “letting the evils come about and continue”? First, God designed humanity in His free Image and He will not violate that freedom. Second, I suggest you read about the vision Leo XIII had before he composed his Prayer to St. Michael the Archangel.

          Leo saw Jesus and Satan conversing. Satan told Jesus, “I can destroy the Catholic Church.” Jesus replied, “You can? Then go ahead.” Then Satan said, “I need the time and I need the power.” Jesus asked, “How much time and how much power?” Satan replied, “I need about a century and I need power over those who will give themselves to me.”

          How did Jesus respond? “You have the time. You have the power. Do what you want.”

          The current confusion is God’s judgement on a Church that long ago sacrificed its Petrine patrimony on the altar of wealth, power, secular prestige, political influence, intellectual fashion and institutional arrogance. He will expose those who reject His revelation as fools — and is doing so right now in the case of Francis and his bishops.

        • Saints by whose standards? Since they changed the criteria, removed Devil’s advocate, watered down the miracles ect, can we say it’s the same product as before? If your favorite brand changed their ingredients to something demonstrably inferior, would you keep buying because it was your favorite growing up? In my view the modern canonizations are no more than an Aggiornamento Lifetime Achievement Award. The very Catholic criteria has been messed with. Sorry, but to change the formula is to change the end product and in my view it can no longer be considered infallible.

      • Thank you for saying this. The cancerous agents in the Church were entirely conspicuous throughout JP2’s pontificate, yet none of them, save a few tokens and that after decades of spreading their poison, were ever disciplined. JP2 basically watched and wrote and rallied while the cancer metastasized beyond the point of control.

      • As one who is unhappily learning about the problems of JPII’s papacy, there is one thing I shall always remember: in all of the openly heretical parishes I suffered through for decades, he was the ONLY person I had as support for what I believed and intended to be orthodoxy.

        Without JPII, we would have had Paul VII. Do not forget how bitterly and passionately the liberals hated him.

        And as for his horrible appointments, he was warned about what they were. The problem was that he had personally been framed for sexual immorality by the Polish government (saved only the the drunken agent telling all to the police), and knew that personal destruction by false accusation was standard practice in Communist countries. So he did not believe the warnings until it was too late.

        There is a reason for the papolatry. I remember quite well thinking that I could not trust my priests, could not trust my bishops, could not trust the hierarchy, could not trust theologians, could not trust my local Catholic bookstore, and could not trust almost any of my fellow parishioners. By comparison, the pope was the only person not teaching obvious and outright heresy. There were a multitude of people like me.

        After a few decades of this, yes, papolatry was the result. It was the result of desperation.

        Most of us did not even know that trads existed, and to the extent that we did, saw the huge “Heretics and schismatics, Danger, Keep Out” signs, and intending to be orthodox, inquired no further.

        If I had not run across some great articles online by Hilary White and Ann Barnhardt, who I did not know were trads, I still wouldn’t know anything about it.

        Do not judge as if you stand outside history. If you were blest to know more sooner, thank God for it.

    • What was their rationale for removing God the Father and Son from the prayers? I don’t even understand how they could present such an apostasy from the faith.

      • Inclusive language! Not that they did this during the Novus Ordo liturgy, but behind closed doors the discussion was how this should be done. Patriarchy…..ect….ect….the same thing certain nuns and priests have been openly saying for 40 years.

        • Wow, they are some weird awful religion. SSPX should hold a conclave. These people are really getting away with presenting a totally false belief system as Catholic. It is criminal.

        • I’ve had several experiences like this myself but always assumed it was bad priests. But now, it seems more like they were good priests but of a different religion. I had no idea what was really going on.

        • Matt,

          Another and more sinister reason for deleting the Holy Trinity is that it removes a distinction between Catholicism and Islam. The Muslims refer to us as polytheistic because of the doctrine of the Trinity. Islam is inherently sodomitical and paedophilic, despite the stories about throwing gays off roofs. Thus there are several ways in which our revolutionary clergy are in psychological sympathy with Islam.

          • Yes, I’ve been reading about how Islam is much into sodomy and pedophilia than what was originally believed. ……and we start to ‘connect the dots’ on they ‘why’ of our Churchmen shoving Islam down our throats at every turn.

          • William, very true, they wanted to remove that distinction, but I wonder who in authority was advancing that view?

            JPII Homily, Oct. 13, 1989: “…the followers of Islam who believe in the same good and just God.”

            JPII Homily, Jan. 28, 1990: “… our Muslim brothers and sisters… who worship as we do the one and merciful God.”

            JPII General Audience, May 5, 1999: “Today I would like to repeat what I said to young Muslims some years ago in Casablanca: ‘We believe in the same


            JPII General Audience, May 16, 2001: “… the believers of Islam, to whom we are united by the adoration of the one God.”

          • Thanks for a great list of quotes. It would have been yet more ammunition for the Promoter of the Faith to oppose JP2’s canonisation…..except that JP2 abolished the post of Promoter of the Faith! You cannot canonise huge numbers of people if a tiresome bureaucrat keeps raising valid objections.

            This propaganda that we are all worshipping the same God beggars belief. There is a division among honest Catholics as to whether Muslims are worshipping a different God or merely have a different understanding of the same God. I think it is a distinction without a difference. The Muslim understanding of God is so different that we have little common ground.

            1) Catholic God is Trinitarian. The Muslims thus regard us as polytheists.

            2) Catholic God is faithful in his promises. Muslim God is capricious and can even contradict himself. My favourite example is Allah granting The Prophet permission for extra sex slaves every time Mohammed felt pelvic urges.

            3) Catholic God has a Son who came to Earth. This is an unacceptable to Islam, whose God is remote from human understanding.

        • The Episcopal Diocese Of Washington has reportedly voted recently to stop using “Gendered pronouns” to refer to God and reformulate all of their prayers with “gender neutral” language. Obviously not catholic, but worth noting I think.

    • Thank you for just laying it out. I think this is fair to conscientious Catholic laity, many of whom are asking themselves where they will end up as the newest orientations coming out of Rome, filter down to local parish communities and teaching apostolates (aka blessing ssms). Matt, It wont be any consolation to hear that a highly regarded straightshooter theologian Monsignor Joseph Clifford Fenton who I think assisted Ottaviani at V2, kept a diary about trips to Rome from the later 40’s through V2, which is readable online. I just read extracts the other day. In 1962 he says he is horrified at the vast numbers of Liberals attending V2.He also realised BY THEN that “there was nothing more I can do here”. In particular he is horrified about the new definition of the Church (the new ecclesiology). That meant a new definition of what it means to be Catholic. And it was obvious right then the ecumenical project had moved into full gear.

    • Matt,

      Thanks for a great inside story about how the recipe for NuChurch was perfected decades ago. I love the bent Jesuit who was quickly transferred to a regular parish. I guess that parents at that parish were not warned about keeping their sons at least 500 yards away from him?

    • Thank you for this. Your experiences shed even more light on the rot that has invaded the Church. And at this point, I don’t think I’m exaggerating when I say that the rot has pretty much permeated the Church. And you are ever so correct…….it’s “much too late”. We are kind of like sitting ducks at this point. Divine intervention is the only way out of this. Total dependence on God and on His precious Mother for guidance.

    • Undoubtedly every word you write is true. All you have to do is get a toe in the theological academy, religious life or the clerical caste and the masks are off and you see what is transpiring in living color. Been there.
      The apostasy is on the cellular level. A laity devoid of catechesis for almost sixty years is unable to recognize the nefarious when it is spoken by a dog collar. Our parish has three young men in formation — one monastic, two diocesan. Daily I worry about what is being transmitted to these deeply faithful and wonderful young men.
      My Irish grandfather could say back in 1960 “they will turn us into protestants.” He could say this while not being particularly devout he did know his catechism and his generation had observed the clergy class developing airs in an attempt to remain relevant — long before “the” council.
      There has been a dog and pony show going on to keep the faithful happy for sixty years. What is going on backstage is horrifying. Mine this site which exposes the culture in place at the home of the “liturgical movement” in America. No good fruit from a rotten tree.

    • Thank you for your insights here based on personal experience. Elsewhere here at 1P5 I have advocated a campaign to expose the sodomites in Roman collars (and habits) behind this attempt to drown St. Paul in a sea of lies.

    • Matt …

      I don’t know anything about your personal background / experience within the seminary, so please pardon me if I inquire of you whether you eventually wound up leaving the seminary or putting your aspirations to become a priest on hold (due to these “behind the Wizard of Oz’s curtain” experiences)?

      Thank you for your time.

      • My aspiration were dashed, but providentially so. I was married by the time I really found the true Catholic Faith. Looking back, I was too damaged by my Novus Ordo upbringing to have made a good priest. Had I found Tradition in my youth, that would have been another story, but we can’t re-write our destinies.

    • Yeah, that ‘new church’ that is not Christ’s Church but one of countless so called protestant communities that may or may not even be Christian. Heretics are in danger of eternal fire so we must pray for their conversion.

    • “We’re building a new church. We’re moving on from the past, from the old dogmas. It’s a new era, an exciting time”.
      Maybe I am naive or something but I really really don’t understand. If these people want something new and exciting why don’t they just go and make something new and exciting….somewhere else? Why do they want to change our Church and deprive us of everything we believe in? The Church is The Church. And lots of us love Her just the way She was. By the time they have finished mutilating the Church nobody benefits anything. What use is a mutilated Church to them (who don’t believe anyway…otherwise they wouldn’t want to change Her) or to us, who loved Her as She was? Surely, if you don’t like something, go elsewhere? If you think God/Jesus/The Bible/The Catechism are wrong about the natural law….well who wants to be part of something where God is wrong?? And do they really think that by mere humans trying to wangle things to suit them it actually changes anything? God will not be mocked.

      • Because they are not interesting in building only destroying. They have no faith to build anything on. Remember their mission is to 1. infiltrate 2. subvert 3. destroy

    • You are doubtless aware that the initials “SJ” also stand for a somewhat vulgar term for a homosexual. I used to naively believe that the likes of James Martin were a relative minority. Nowadays, I fear that it could be applicable to a conservative 70-80% of the Jesuit Order.

    • Wow! This is an eye opener. So it’s true PF has a very good chance of not believing that Our Lord is God and was just a social reformer who was crucified.

  6. This is what happens when you have a church that is obsessed with ecumenism and accompaniment instead of trying to combat heresy. In the past 50 years, being pastoral has taken on a whole new meaning, from the welfare of eternal souls to appeasing the world and justifying the unnatural and sinful.

    • This also is what happens when you have a religious institution steeped in centuries of institutional arrogance, an institution that demands blind deference from laity and lower clergy, an institution that reflects more of medieval culture than God’s Word, Christ Himself.

      • The institution was founded at Christ’s command. The arrogance is the person who goes off on his own and decides he can interpret the Bible himself.

          • You do what the Apostle John did: you stay by Christ. Jesus Christ was betrayed by one apostle; abandoned by ten; one denied him thrice and then abandoned him and one, ONE, stayed by him all the way to the end.

            The Church is the Bride of Christ. Not the priests, not the buildings. Stayed confessed; keep receiving the Eucharist (which can be validly confected even if the priest was in the sacristy right before mass doing something unthinkable) and stick with the Church.

            Going off into the wilderness or becoming schismatic is the wrong choice.

          • Your thinking has two major problems: First, you say the priests aren’t the Bride of Christ but those same priests, when promoted to bishops and archbishops, become the backbone of the institution you say Christ created. If the priests aren’t the Bride of Christ as regular priests, then they certainly aren’t as bishops or archbishops because they never lose their priestly identity. They are alter Christi for life!

            Second, when you say that Christ founded His Church on the one who denied Him, then you’re saying that the Church is founded on the shifting sand of human behavior. That’s exactly the kind of thinking that got us John Paul II’s arbitrary revisionism on capital punishment becoming de facto doctrine.

            Christ did not lie. He cannot lie. However, theologians can create self-serving interpretations to justify their positions and the positions of an entrenched ecclesiastical
            elite that cares nothing about anybody under its authority except its sycophants.

            The Church is founded on Christ’s claims of divinity, His death and resurrection. Period.

            One can stay by Christ without pledging loyalty to corrupt prelates who are morally and spiritually bankrupt. They certainly aren’t standing by Him. Why should I or anybody else who takes his faith seriously?

            Christ did not die and rise again so that corrupt clergy, theologians, bureaucrats and their sycophants can take His name in vain and guide people into perfidious stupidity. He died and rose to pay the ultimate price for sin as the only perfect atonement that would satisfy a righteous God’s justified anger against sin. Christ died and rose to make it possible for all who believe Their claims not only to avoid eternal condemnation but to become adopted sons and daughters of the Most High! That’s what St. Paul wrote in his Epistle to the Romans.

            As far as interpreting the Bible for oneself goes, do you really think corrupt prelates who are more interested in intellectual fashion than divine revelation can interpret for anybody? The things of the Spirit can only be discerned by those who have the Spirit. That’s true for Catholics, Protestants, Eastern Orthodox, liberals, conservatives, Traditionalists, Pentecostals, you name it.

            The Triune God cares only about one thing: Loyalty and fidelity to Him through His Son. Nothing. Else. Matters. — certainly not such designations as “Catholic,” “Protestant,” “Orthodox,” etc.

            If you want schism, look to Rome. Look to the local chanceries and the universities. They created it. They will pay for it, big time.

    • Saving souls is way too ‘passe’ for these perverts. They’re not interested in saving souls in the least. I see some of these people as real live demons.

  7. I love the evil sister’s stuff about “relationships free from rigid norms and codifications”. Surely this is what every paedo in history has wanted? No wonder she has so many supporters among the clergy. Any parents queuing up to send their children to a Religious Education teacher free of rigid norms?

    My cynical reaction on seeing the title is why are the clergy seeking gay theology when they have the practice perfected? I suppose it is like that wonderful graffiti in Northern Ireland during The Troubles: “Your solution sounds great in practice, but how will it work in theory?” The revolutionaries are never content with seizing power. They want a theoretical underpinning to justify the righteousness of their power.

  8. On this question:
    “What do you think about civil unions and homosexual marriage, can they be considered as a sacrament, can they function in the eyes of God and of society?”
    to give this as answer:
    “A sacrament is the manifestation of the love of God in space and time. Love is always a sacrament of God as long as each person’s freedom is respected.”
    Is nothing else than demonic talk. Poor, poor, deceived soul(s)!
    Since when is love and then not just ‘love’, but very LOVE of God, conditioned by respecting of each person’s freedom?
    And speaking about freedom,… Freedom to do WHAT? To offend God? Freedom to rebel against God?
    Really?! Can any man with respecting such behavior and acts which are ensued by person’s own freedom, expect any good, let alone God’s love ‘as a sacrament’? NO! Nobody can expect, and even less ask for that. With misusing of man’s personal freedom, in such obvious sinfully way, one can only expect a wrath of God.
    When people use their personal freedom properly to speak, act and live according the wish and law of our God the Lord, only then we can hope and even expect to be blessed with the true love of God.
    To say: “You should respect each person’s freedom” is nothing more than seductive talk. Because that says nothing, but it always hides the real intention, which is,- “You must respect all the fruits, even the worst and evil ones, which could be, and are as product of personal freedom of each man on earth!”
    Of course we respect and must respect the freedom of each of us, which is given to us from God Himself, – but we must never respect any evil word, act, and certainly not an evil and godless lifestyle which and when such are the results of someone’s personal freedom.
    To use personal freedom for choosing evil, can never be rewarded by any kind of love! Let alone the love from our Lord, in the form of Holy sacrament.
    So then, – V R S N S M V – S M Q L I V B !

    • The Bible always speaks of “Love AND Truth” together. Love, in order to be real and not just a passing emotion, must be tethered to truth. Apart from truth, love becomes a pretext for everything and ultimately is a descent into the void.

  9. By now I think we all accept that the Church is to all intents and purposes a gay institution; with gayness being a function of hierarchy. Unlike Catholicism, which is universalist in ethics, gays are supremacist and promote and protect other gays at every opportunity. The gays’ expropriation of Catholic assets began decades ago (Vat II was their coming-out party), and there is now a well-established career path for all types of gays – from out-and-proud big mouths in the media to “in” PPs who are content to go fan dancing on a Saturday night.

    The gays will never voluntarily hand back what they have stolen from the Church, nor will they cease their activities. Needless to list here each act of larceny which include but are not limited to, land and buildings, the benefices, Mass & the liturgy, theology, the Church’s moral authority, Catholics’ sensus fidei and most heinous of all, the innocence of countless Catholic children who were preyed upon.

    It seems as if we must stand by and watch this big gay bulldozer raze the Church, because telling them to stop won’t work.

  10. We need to rethink issues like unjust treatment of homosexuals and racism as two examples. Jesus never discussed these issues. We need to adopt an attitude of accompaniment and mercy. I propose a new theology. One that sees unjust treatment of sodomists as not contrary to the Gospel but simply an act of mercy. We need to make a mess and not be afraid of surprises. My new theology could be called anti-homo theology.

    • Racism is nothing like “unjust treatment of homosexuals.” I hope that was part of your joke, because I for one am so tired of people trying to make them similar. They are not. God made people of different races, He didn’t make them sodomites.

  11. I pray at least one priest has the guts to get up in the middle of this Lenten retreat and defend the truth of Jesus Christ. We can no longer sit quietly in the face of so many grave errors within the Church.

    • They should not attend.
      Just say, ” NO.”

      But, we know they will attend, because they are complicit in sin as well.
      What else is there to think?

  12. Until homosexuality is rooted out of the Church, further destruction will ensue. The French Revolution and Communism
    gave it its legs!
    We all know this, and some here, have witnessed this in their seminaries, like so many May God reward them for they have persevered under the greatest battle!

    God is bringing the pus to the top of the wound…….the diabolical has found a home in Bergoglio. He is an apostate.
    He is evil, and I will say it, even though others cannot. And THAT is the problem sadly, too many priests and cardinals and bishops will NOT recognize the evil intent in this man.
    He must be met head on. ” face to face” by those in authority. Of course this man is promoting ” Queer” and hear this ROD H, ” faggot” theology. lol ( I love ya RodH.)……….And yes, I am a female and am speaking rather crudely, BECAUSE the situation is beyond base, beyond crude in the Church………She is being guided by pure, pure evil.

    Those in the Curia must not attend this so called perverted retreat. It is an abomination.
    Cardinal Burke must speak out directly and state that Francis is WRONG in being complicit to this.
    Forget the damn Dubia for now, there is something right here and now, in the present for these cardinals to directly refute to their ” holy father”.( sarcasm)

  13. The Church is gravely ill since it has failed in its fundamental task of protecting the faith. So yes, Francis is indeed opening the door to “queer theology”. This is a chastisement and we should expect this and all manner of other theological abominations as this pontificate progresses for its appointed duration to its conclusion.

    We caught a glimpse of what was to come in the infamous interim relatio of the 2014 Extraordinary Synod on the Family. Remember this…..??

    Homosexuals have gifts and qualities to offer to the Christian community: are we capable of welcoming these people, guaranteeing to them a fraternal space in our communities? Often they wish to encounter a Church that offers them a welcoming home. Are our communities capable of providing that, accepting and valuing their sexual orientation, without compromising Catholic doctrine on the family and matrimony?

    See HERE for a fuller discussion.

    This was the canary in the mineshaft. This was the harbinger of what was to come and still is to come.

    • “…[G]ifts and qualities to offer the Christian community….” To paraphrase a quote from the last century, when I hear such saccharine talk, I unlatch the safety on my Browning. The memory of a certain former chancellor of my diocese comes to mind. This bully in a Roman collar insulted and maligned good Catholics here for years; anyone who protested the then-frequent machinations at the chancery (back in the days of a bishop who was a former lieutenant to Bernie Law at the Boston Archdiocese) was fair game for this Roman-collared capo. Eventually, he rose in the ranks (what else!?!?) and became the CEO of some Catholic institute where they “treated” wayward priests. But finally reason prevailed and he was arrested by civil authorities unimpressed with phony titles and black suits. He was promptly tried, convicted of embezzlement, and packed off to prison for a few years. Oh, did I mention that his “gift” to our Christian community was to unburden it of $300,000 to lavish on….a boyfriend?

        • The bishop in question, Bernie Law’s former lieutenant, hired this scoundrel and allowed him to range freely over the diocese for years. During his “reign,” the scandals here, perhaps 95% of them anyway, were mainly sodomic in nature, just as the scandals in Boston had been. Had we happened upon your suggested procedure, TR, i.e. a private investigator, we might have discovered the chancellor’s boy toy much earlier, before the embezzler got away with three-hundred grand in contributions from the pews. It couldn’t have been all that difficult, after all. The “boy” in question was a recording “star” well-known in the general pervert “community.” Just writing about this is making my blood boil once again.

      • Johnny,
        I assume this was Monsignor Edward Arsenault of Manchester Diocese? Thanks to Google, you don’t need Sherlock Holmes to work out which sodomite chancellor in New England had his hand in the cookie jar.
        From a British perspective, it confirms our prejudice that USA churches and Catholic organisations have too much money anyway…if this guy could nick $300,000 in the first place. Compared with Father Walter Benz of Pittsburg who stole $1.3 million over 26 years, Monsignor Ed was a bungling amateur. Father Walt was admittedly orthodox – he was shagging a woman.

        • Bingo! Yes, I got to know Ed very well over many nasty e-mails as the catastrophe worked its way across the years. Anyone who wants to get a notion of just what kind of hellish behavior we laymen were confronted with need only consult Bishop Accountability. And the prickly little chancellor’s demise is chronicled by the state’s biggest newspaper, the Manchester Union Leader (a google search reveals the whole sordid story after a few hits). (You can also find there a photo of his yodeling sweetheart.) I don’t know what Ed’s up to these days. The Vatican finally defrocked the bloke after he left prison; better late than never, I guess.

  14. Beginning to suffer affects of vile information overload. A relentless barrage hurled at those of us in the trenches defending the Faith of Our Fathers from the determined legions of Satan disguised as Catholic priests, nuns, bishops, and much higher. Yes I’ve read of homosexual Fr Mendonça who is known to be a fan of homosexual Sister Maria Teresa Forcades i Vila and in collusion with homosexual prophetess Sr. Jeannine Gramick now protected by the Vatican. My response to Lupo Glori is Yes. Once gallant God fearing Christendom now being deftly engineered by Satan’s lieutenants and their Field Marshall into a putrid abominable Queerdom. Satan’s tactic of infiltration into the priesthood decades past is now paying dividends. They’ve wormed their way to the top. Anyone who is gay [not all there as such good persons] will likely defend deviate behavior as natural and in the process dilute, repudiate Apostolic Tradition. And Truth. Homosexuals make the perfect combatants for the Enemy. We can’t let them win and with Christ’s mighty sword we will vanquish them.

    • Hail, Holy Queen, Mother of Mercy, our life, our sweetness and our hope! To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve. To thee do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping in this valley of tears! Turn, then, O most gracious Advocate, thine eyes of mercy toward us, and after this, our exile, show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus. O clement, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary.

      V. Pray for us, O holy Mother of God.
      R. That we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ.

    • Father, history has assisted me in some ways.

      Let’s think back on what it must have been to have lived during two eras; first the Great Western Schism. Chaos! Maybe not for the average peasant, but think what is was like for Bishops and priests. Which Pope IS Pope? I do not think that was easy to decide.

      Second is the Reformation.

      We are experiencing a Second Reformation/Revolt at this time.

      The difference is that then it was fairly clearly defined by geography. Now? The “Lutherans” are everywhere scattered like a virus in the bloodstream.

      All these homosexuals and heretics of all sorts have similarities of goals and teachings, with some differences. As it was during the Reformation; Luther and Calvin, Simons and Zwingli and Cranmer. Variations on a similar theme of rebellion.

      One decent Pope and the German Catholic leaders will be gone for sure, certainly claiming themselves the true Church {Marx has already as you know rejected the notion of German subservience to Rome} tho I’m not sure how much they care about really being the True Church as long as they can negotiate a good solid rank among the religions obtaining Kirchensteuer Euros.

      But in the end, we will lose a huge chunk of land, property and souls. Just as we lost in the Reformation. And they, like the Muslims & Protestants will march on declaring themselves to be the true religion, etc.

      Hang in there and remember, St Peter tried to convince Jesus of a better way out and was called “Satan” for it, so we are just going to have to abide by the Lord’s willingness to suffer, and indeed, suffer along with him.

      God’s blessings on you and thank you for your posts here.

      • “The difference is that then it was fairly clearly defined by geography. Now? The “Lutherans” are everywhere scattered like a virus in the bloodstream.”

        We must keep in mind a fact that the difference between then and now is a way bigger, in the sense that we are now talking about “lutheran-calvinist-montanist-arians-pelagians-etc…” and all other kind of heretics as “All in ONE” (more or less), – and than even on steroids! And this huge amount of evil inside the Church and on the personal level of those who (still!?) are seen and called – prelates and clergy of the RCC, was unavoidable outcome because of the meekness in relation to critical things (who often times just seems to be small, or unimportant things), – meekness, which is actually a weakness, injected from the False Spirit. Moreover, this is an obvious evidence how essential is and must be to listen and always live and act, especially clergy, bishops, cardinal and the popes according the words of our Lord the God Himself. Who says to them (and to us):

        “He that is faithful in that which is least, is faithful also in that which is greater: and he that is unjust in that which is little, is unjust also in that which is greater.
        If then you have not been faithful in the unjust mammon; who will trust you with that which is the true?
        And if you have not been faithful in that which is another’s; who will give you that which is your own?
        No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or he will hold to the one, and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.”
        (Luke 16,10-13)

        • Ivan:

          Yes, I don’t mean to downplay the current crisis. “Lutherans” was a catchall term. and as I mentioned, the enemies of the Church are now not concentrated in any single geographical region, they permeate the Church and must be present in almost every parish.

          I’d add one significant belief set to your list of those making up the Synthesis of All Heresies, pure paganism.

          That lecture where then-Father Ratzinger called Catholics “pagans”, in reference to the vast number of “cultural Catholics” who are just that comes to mind. As I see it, the Catholic Church leadership has CATERED to that group as much or more than any other, dumbing down the high calling of Jesus to the low moaning of Jezebel and that is at the heart of the collapse.

          • I know Rod. And I had no even doubt about your good intention. Sometimes is just too much to say everything you wish to say, if you want explain the thing in the best way. Actually rather often, than sometimes. Saying this, and doing it this way we are complementing each other in the good thoughts and with good intentions. 😉

            And yes, there are certainly more, as you say, and for sure the pure-paganism. Which is truly one of the worse “ismes” based on so-called HUMANISM, which is more than anything else used everywhere, even in the encyclicals…
            I mean, really! It is GOD before all, everyone and everything else. Always, all the time and everywhere! If we know and believe that, and if we live our lives accordingly, to that FIRST commandment, only THAN we can be the humans as we should be and as we are created to be. And only THAN we, the humans, can understand and implement the true humanism, which is then, btw. not even needed to be discussed, let alone to make a BIG DEAL of it. Humanism should be for every (hu)man a self-implied matter-of-course.

  15. The Popes have long let the sodomites enter through the rear door into seminaries and they continue to succor them even though they are natural subversives who work diligently to undermine all Doctrine and Praxis that identifies them as perverts of the first order.

    Even the putative hammer of heretics, Bishop Emeritus Ratzinger publicly stated, those who practice homosexuality are “profoundly respected

    The Real Mass will never be restored as normative and the entirety of Tradition will not be taught unless the sodomites are rooted out of the One True HOLY Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church.

    • Mighty Joe,

      From all the evidence around the world, it is too obvious that the sodomites had no problems getting in the front door of the seminary and staying there!

      Leon Podles’ description of trying his vocation is a classic. Another seminarian made an advance at him. Leon left the seminary the same day. The rector was obviously distressed that Leon had made a tiresome fuss by reporting the event, rather than the attempted sodomy. The bent seminarian was kept on at the seminary until he was finally kicked out for spending all his time in gay bars. Leon went on to marry and have six children and write a couple of books.

      If you have the time, I strongly recommend reading his book which you can get for free. It explains in scholarly and depressing detail why we have so few vocations and the wrong kind of men getting ordained.

  16. OnePeterFive should conduct a poll and ask where folks think we’re at:
    1. Just a point in time which may or may not be the end times–we cannot know
    2. The beginning of the end (Gethsemane)
    3. The scourging
    4. The crowning
    5. Carrying the Cross
    6. Crucifixion
    7. Resurrection

    Personally, after meditating on the Sorrowful Mysteries this morning, I think we’re perhaps at the scourging. I’m probably wrong but I think the tearing of the garment and casting lots phase will involve the total breakdown of the physical church and the selling/looting of Her patrimony (art works, buildings, etc.). We’ve seen churches being sold off but we haven’t seen Rome start selling…yet. Of course it could be that the rending of the garment is the tearing apart of the Church which is happening in terms of bishops conferences declaring their own dogmas or “pastoral” practices in contradiction to the Church.

    At other times I think She’s ascending Calvary or that She’s been crucified and is being placed in Mary’s arms.

    Hard to say.

    • I would say either/both 1 & 4. 1….because actually that’s true….we don’t know. 4…partly just subjectively that’s how I feel….as a convert, coming home to The Church was my happiest moment….I thought I had done it right at last and now everything would be good….and now day by day there is just one humiliation following the next…how do I explain to those around me… my love for The Church ….the dream turned sewer….and why I still stand beside Her….sharing in Her humiliation. It is a crown of thorns for all of us. And trying to place that in a time frame context….2 = .pre V II years …waiting…loss of faith…modernists plotting & rising. (V II would be Pilate….judging & condemning 1965 years of Tradition) 3 = the post V II years…4 = now….and then I don’t know what comes next. Just a little playing with ideas. I know nothing.

      • I think you explain by telling them that you are part of the Church founded and instituted by Christ and in the same way He allowed himself to be tortured, humiliated and murdered for mankind, so His Church must pass through her trial as well. The question is whether it is THE trial or just another trial which is (as you said) hard to say and I, too, most certainly know nothing.

    • I’ve meditated on this exact thing, and what I’ve come to think is that perhaps the Church is passing through all of the stages of the Crucifixion more or less at the same time. Or rather I should say, different parts of the Church throughout the world are experiencing different aspects of the Passion. As in, we here in the US are suffering the Agony, having to see the desolation and the martyrdom of our brothers and sisters overseas, watching in slow motion as Her leaders seem determined to drive the nails into her wrists. The Church in the middle-east are suffering the Crucifixion with the high rate of martyrdom, those in Europe are under the scourging of the tyranny of Islam and secular atheism, those in Russia and China are carrying the Cross, etc…

  17. Quite a bit of complaining about JPII here. I want to share a quote from an article from when he was still Cardinal Wojtyla.

    WE are now standing in the face of the greatest historical confrontation
    humanity has gone through. I do not think that wide circles of American
    society or wide circles of the Christian community realize this fully.
    We are now facing the final confrontation between the Church and the
    anti-Church, of the Gospel versus the anti-Gospel.

    “We must be prepared to undergo great trials in the not-too-distant future;
    trials that will require us to be ready to give up even our lives, and a
    total gift of self to Christ and for Christ. Through your prayers and
    mine, it is possible to alleviate this tribulation, but it is no longer
    possible to avert it. . . .How many times has the renewal of the Church
    been brought about in blood! It will not be different this time.”

    – Bicentennial talk given in the United States by the future St. John Paul II, then Cardinal Karol Wojtyla of Kraków, Poland
    He knew and he warned us.

    • Me too. I don’t like that. Pulling out every possible (if it is true) sin from every “post-2VC” pope. I just don’t like it. It seems me not to be christian behaviour.
      First of all, every man have sin. God and Virgin Mary are without sin.
      One truely saint nun told me once: Satan is prosecutor! All day and all night Satan is accusating people in face of God. Holy Spirit is defender. Mary Virgin is apologist.
      That always reminds me when I see or hear accusations.

      God defend us!

      • Your opinion, of course. Yet, he is a saint….I guess you believe that, too, was a bad decision on the part of the Church. I sense anti-papacy in general.

        • Not “anti-papacy”. Just exhaustion from the constant cries of “JPII, we love you!” from so many otherwise rational people, who remain willfully blind to any possible cracks in the “JPII was the greatest pope since St. Peter” narrative.

          • No one is saying he was perfect. No person is. But that doesn’t demean his greatness. Greatest pope of my long lifetime. You can’t see the goodness for all the effort you make looking for the “cracks”.

          • With all respect, the man’s been dead for little more than a decade. Why don’t we take the long view and allow the Church to determine whether he deserves the title of “great” after at least 100 years or so, rather than presumptuously bestowing it upon him ourselves? We all are too close to his era to be objective in that regard; sentiment can all too easily cloud prudent judgment.

          • Like the canonisation cause of JP2, if we had a competent Promoter of the Faith (a post abolished by JP2 to enable mass production of saints), I do not think that Mother Theresa’s cause would have survived five minutes’ scrutiny.

            1) Accepting a huge sum of stolen money from the crook Keating and failing to return it once the crook was exposed.


            2) Maintaining primitive care facilities when her order was in receipt of huge sums of money



            3) Complete religious indifferentism


          • Yes.

            I do personally believe his luster will dull a bit as time progresses, especially as true assessments of Bergoglio’s pontificat also come to be expressed, and the linkage between Bergoglio and JPII come to be seen with more clarity.

            It seems to me that in many ways, Bergoglio glommed on to JPII’s weakest characteristics. Sort of selecting the bad and leaving the good behind. But nevertheless, they are quite similar in some ways, especially as regards other religions and especially Islam, the scourge of the Church and indeed of all mankind.

          • Surely they are similar. They are similar as all post-Vatican II popes, who have all without exception less or more accepted “aggiornamento” politic which was injected by no else than again that False Spirit!
            When you say; “Sort of selecting the bad and leaving the good behind.”, – I would say this must be in quite different way explained, because that way implicates as they really wanted to have and do bad instead the good for the Church of Christ and His people who are entrusted to them. Just maybe the only exception can be made with this very last one, who is very special and highly advanced in his evil works, but the other post-VCII modernist popes we should an must see, I believe, as those who have had good intentions for the Church, BUT because of the satan’s smoke which has become thicker and thicker, and many (already) misled associates, theologians, prelates, friends, advisors and others, they were not in state to do every single (papal) step as good as possible. Saying this, it must be mentioned how they all have been fed by anti-theological garbage written by Chardin, Schillebeeckx, Kung, Jung, Rahner, not to mention the jonger ones as Kasper etc…
            This again is the super obvious evidence how “Every good tree bringeth forth good fruit, and the evil tree bringeth forth evil fruit.”, and how it is more than obvious the necessity to act accordingly the words of our Lord, who says it clearly: “Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit, shall be cut down, and shall be cast into the fire.”
            All this is so easy to understand. The same effect man must have when he eat poisoned food, – he become very sick, and he’ll die if he does not get anti-poison before it’s late.
            With the poisoned books, such writings or even so-called “theological works” is even worse!!
            Because that venom which people are taking from it, cannot be so easily detoxinated from the human brain, if at all can.
            Here, in all of this we have again the obviousness that modernism IS synthesis of all HERESIES!
            And that Church and all their leadership, through all the time, MUST be consciousness of the very fact, the unavoidable truth which is that WE HERE are the CHURCH MILITANT, and should and must be God’s faithfully servants accordingly that FACT.

            Living the Truth, spreading the Truth, preaching the Truth, fighting for the Truth, defending the Truth, and dying for the Truth, with the Truth and in the Truth!

          • What greatness is it that you speak of though? The cracks in the pontificate of John Paul II are by no means microscopic, they’re huge. He promulgated a non-Catholic catechism, he convened the blasphemous and scandalous prayer meeting in Assisi where he broke the first commandment, he has on several occasions celebrated mass with naked or half-naked women, he has hosted indecent acrobatic shows in the Vatican, he has promulgated a new Code of Canon Law with several modernist errors, and I know that accusations have been levied against him because he has supposedly covered up cases of clerical sex abuse. I mean it’s frankly insane when you take a step back and look at his pontificate.

          • Ok, here is the greatness I speak of:

            “He had humility, simplicity, and holiness. Immediately after St. John Paul
            II’s death, priests, bishops and even the next pope, started to give the
            deceased pontiff the title of “John Paul the Great.” It wasn’t me or others like me.

            If you need something more concrete:
            “Among the things that are most commonly cited in praise of John Paul II:

            He provided an extraordinarily large body of orthodox, articulate,
            intellectually rigorous teaching in his encyclicals and other documents.

            He helped reestablish stability in many Catholic circles during the
            turbulence following Vatican II. (There is generally a period of
            turbulence following each ecumenical council as its directives are

            3. He promulgated the 1983 Code of Canon Law (for the Western rite) and the 1990 Code of Canons for the Eastern Churches
            (for the Eastern rites), the latter being the first time that the
            Eastern Catholic churches have had a complete code of canon law.

            4. He promulgated the Catechism of the Catholic Church, the first catechism of its kind since the Roman Catechism in the 1500s.

            5. He personally helped bring about the fall of Communism and the destruction of the Iron Curtain.

            He served as a staunch pro-life, pro-family advocate–among other
            ways, by standing up to attempts made at the Beijing Women’s Conference
            and the Cairo Population Conference (both by the United Nations) to
            force anti-family, anti-child policies on the nations of the world.

            7. He was a remarkably holy and a man of deep prayer who sets a great example for others.”

            I will not be swayed from my love for him, as I don’t expect to change your mind.

          • Thank you for proving my point from further down the thread by responding exactly the way I predicted. These are the same arguments everyone uses while conveniently overlooking or minimizing the problem aread.

          • Only God is Great. I doubt that JP ll would want to be referred to as great.

            He projected many charitable things for the world, I agree, as he understood all too well, the effects of war and violence. And JP ll understood the evil of Communism and helped bring about its end in Poland. Most especially, I have been affected by his sacrificial love and works on that……and his many actions spoke to that.
            JP ll’s devotion to the Blessed Mother was beautiful as well.

            But……as pope……as any pope……he must be about defending the faith and
            striking away those who wish to ” water down” the faith, or change a ‘few things’.
            His seemingly promotion of ecumenicalism is of a major concern for me personally.
            I believe female altar girls came from his pontificate as well. ( mistake)
            World Youth Days were more of grand appearances, but have shown to offer little substance, and again diminished the Sacrifice of the Mass. ( not his intent).
            And of course, sexual abuse by priests flourished under his pontificate, and I must hold him accountable for that.

            But what I will hold on to, is that JP ll did not want to harm the Church, but set out to
            become a bit too much with the world, hoping to ” reel the people” in with
            love, goodness, charity, etc. Somehow, along the way……..his witness to hope, seemed to focus less on the Church and more on mankind?

            He was a man. A man who wanted to be holy, who wanted to be Christ for the world.
            Yet, I think he downplayed Christ’s Church in that laudable goal, and it has cost the Church.

          • Thanks Ivan. Redemptive suffering was something I believed was in line with our faith, and I have looked upon JP ll favorablr for addressing this?
            Is the article suggesting this was faulty?

          • Dear cs,
            Please, just make some time and read it. I’ve posted this lately several times, and can give you the link, which somehow don’t works properly but lead to the homepage of angeluspress…
            But if you type in search engine this “Pope John Paul II’s Theological Journey to the Prayer Meeting of Religions in Assisi, Part II, Vol. 3” – you’ll get to see the online version immediately.

          • I don’t think you should be swayed from love for him, and his support for life was a very positive thing in light of the absence thereof in the pontificate of Bergoglio.

            I also remember, as a Protestant back in the ’80’s, being impressed that he said something or other in denial of artificial contraception which I found interesting and strangely attractive in the maelstrom of sexual revolution going on all over the world.

            I was also impressed that he was willing to be seen failing in his body as he did. Many things to like about JPII.

            But thinking back on the Kings of Israel, tho, I’d say that, in the spirit of the Chronicles, “he did not remove the high places”.

            And now the “high places” have expanded all over the nation of Israel.

          • None of these things you wrote address the issues that I pointed out. Again if he is so great why did he do all those things I wrote? Do you have an answer to that? Does it even make sense in your mind that a man who is supposedly so holy and so great could be guilty of having done all that?

            Your love for him seems to be completely dogmatic though so I don’t expect to change your mind either. Perhaps you’ll accept the evidence when a future pope condemns him, at least I hope that’ll make you change your mind about him.

          • As a Protestant at the time, he did nothing to directly draw me to the faith. In fact, I steered clear of the Catholic faith partly because of the perception that he promoted universalism and religious indifferentism which I thought in effect were simply Catholic doctrines, reflected as they were/are by many Catholics.

            Funny, since extra ecclesiam nulla salus is a dogma of the faith, a dogma that has been more or less redefined into nonsense by many, partly, dare I say it, with support from actions of Pope John Paul II.

        • Not an opinion. Fact. I liked him. Two of his encyclicals are among my favorites. I valued his intellect and his faith.

          His management was not good for many reasons. He, himself, said he should have disciplined more. This is not anti Papal at all. I value Truth and accuracy, not emotional nonsense.

          The quote you gave is often presented as if he was stating some mystical knowledge, yet I do not think that was his point. It should be presented in context and viewed as such.

          I “sense” Mottramism and and a facile minded attitude.

    • Canonization is NOT an endorsement by the Church of every act and utterance of the canonized. JPII was in some respects a disaster. He appointed boatloads of stinkers to the episcopate, usually without reading the dossiers placed in front of him.

        • It is widely held, even by his admirers, that his episcopal appointments were far too frequently appalling. Even George Weigel admits that.
          If you want proof, Jorge Mario Bergoglio, of whom he was warned by the Superior General of the Jesuits as being unbalanced and unsuitable for the episcopate.
          Now look what we got on our hands.

          • I find your “question” peculiar.
            Can anyone think of a pope who has performed as grievously inadequately, to be kind, than Jorge Mario Bergoglio? Those whose pontificates might be thought wanting because of personal moral weakness did not tinker with doctrine. Those who had a dubious theological position were not obstreperous and they found correction. Those who discerned poorly were often the victims of an inadequate flow of information constrained by the circumstances of the times and political interference.
            None of them balked at the perennial Magisterium of the Church.
            Jorge Mario Bergoglio does.
            John Paul was a fine man, venerable, a saint. But he was a poor ecclesiastical administrator. In regard to his theological perspective he was unduly mindful of the Council and attempted to maintain ecclesial unity which was in great jeopardy in 1978. Reverence for his memory, respect for him as a person, does not preclude honest critique.
            He made big mistakes.
            Benedict made an even bigger one.

      • Let’s note some of the disasters from the JP2 era:

        1. Failure to squash the vile Medjugorje fraud. According to some accounts, JP2 favoured any apparition that was an embarrassment to a Communist government. He also had a huge devotion to Our Lady.
        2. Protection of the Legionaries of Christ and the unspeakable Marcial Maciel. He went so far as to call this monster a sure guide for youth.
        3. Abolishing the Promoter of the Faith, thus opening the way for mass production of saints, including himself.
        4. Promoting relations with fake religions, kissing the Koran, the Assisi debacle – all giving the impression that the Catholic faith was one religion on a par with others.
        5. Non action on paedo crisis until far too late.

    • I agree that he did see or at least have a strong {and accurate} sense of the impending crisis.

      However, curiously and sadly, it was something of a self-fulfilling prophesy in fact, as he directly gave us Bergoglio as a bishop and he promoted a profound sense of religious indifferentism in the Church and among the faithful through Assisi, Koran-kissing, etc.

      He was a complicated individual.

    • If I may put this in even brighter light; the door for implementing sodomy as something ‘different’, but still (somehow) ‘normal’ behavior, was opened a certain time ago, and now with K. Marx it is widely open. The next stage is to fill the NewChurch with them.
      Think here on the ‘change’ which is made at 2358. of CCC.:

  18. Remember when JP II came out against the war? Do you? All the Mottramist neo-cons fell over themselves claiming it was merely a prudential decision on a concrete matter. No need to follow it. Remember when he protected Marciel? Remember when he appointed Borgolio even when he was given evidence he should not?

    Now, I could list more but these few point out that just because a Pope does something does not make every single thing binding, holy, good, or correct. And, rejecting bad decisions does not make one a dissenter or heterodox.

  19. I don’t understand. The Sister is publicly making statements (and money) that are in direct opposition to the teaching of the Catholic Church and yet no rebuke from the Bishops? Do the Clergy have to be specifically asked about a specific item before they will say anything? Astounding this level of apathy within the Church “leaders”.

    • I suspect that many bishops dread more propaganda from the media that they are being homophobic, etc. for persecuting a poor nun for exercising her freedom of speech. They have also been stabbed in the back by Francis and his who-am-I-to-judge and mercy-to-all garbage.

  20. “Perhaps the history of Western civilization would have been different….”

    Yes. It would have devolved into savagery never before seen in human history. We’d all be living in caves and eating each other for dinner.

  21. I can’t even stomach reading this kind of s**t anymore! Our Church, as it was, is rapidly being “aced out,” replaced with this ravenous wolf of a false church. Look how far and how quickly its cancerous message has grown just within the last couple of years — and since the advent of Bergoglio. Just ten years ago I was busily going door-to-door encouraging fallen away Catholics to return to Holy Mother Church as a member of the Legion of Mary, having just re-converted back to my Faith, myself, through the wonderful support and direction of my Spiritual Director, who is gone to the Lord now. Had a lot of doors slammed in my face, but also won a lot of persons who recited the Rosary with us and returned to the Sacraments as a result. My SD, an elderly, traditional priest, even back then was most unhappy with what was happening within the Church, but he always defended her. He never spoke ill of any bishop or fellow priest, but did hint at what was going on. He encouraged us to always keep and defend our Faith for tough times were upon us. We have to keep fighting, keep our voices raised in Truth. God loves all of us, yes; but He’s not going to tolerate the perverting of His Church and its Doctrine. Scream out to the Heavens for Justice. And when it happens, it too will come suddenly and quickly. As for me and my house, I will follow the Lord! Can I get an “Amen?”

  22. “Teresa Forcades I Vila reminds us of the essential thing: that Jesus of Nazareth did not codify laws or lay down rules.”

    In your face LIES, approved & promoted by Bergoglio!

    Jesus: “For from within out of the heart of men proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within, and defile a man.” – Mark 7:21-23

    “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill” (Matthew 5:17).

    “If you love me, keep my commandments.” – John 14:15

  23. It is nothing else but propaganda to push the gay agenda everywhere on everyone,no matter what,.This so called sister should leave the order of nuns and live her life as she desires,she gives nuns a bad name.

  24. Purely demonic! Diabolical Disorientation, just as Our Lady warned, has now taken over the Vatican and has invaded the highest levels of the Church. Pray your Rosaries daily – anything can happen now!


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