Filed under: things you never thought you’d hear a pope say. Ever.
In his weekly Angelus address on Sunday, Pope Francis said that Jesus’ words are sometimes hard to accept, that they “rock our world” and challenge our secular mentality, because he doesn’t offer immediate success but a longer road to true happiness.
Referring to the Sunday gospel reading, where many of Christ’s disciples abandon him after hearing him preach about the “bread of life,” the Pope said that “even the disciples cannot accept the Master’s troubling language.” And so they exclaim: “This is a hard saying. Who can accept it?”
The Pope said that when Jesus speaks of his own flesh as the bread of life, saying he would “give his flesh as food and his blood as drink,” his words “provoked disappointment in the people, and they judged them unworthy of the Messiah.” They wanted Jesus to be a Messiah who would attain immediate success, rather than a Messiah ready to go to the cross to save humanity, and so they deserted him.
The fact is, Francis said, that they understood Jesus’ words perfectly well, but they couldn’t accept them because they “undermined their mentality.”
“The words of Jesus always rock our world,” he said, because they challenge the ways of secular society.
(Source)
Yowza!
In my long haired days i was shown what i was without the bread of life,and found my answer in Jesus words, Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you,
https://youtu.be/bJjW3LXuHzo
Way back in my early twenties,one pet evening near Christmas time as I was putting cows in to the cow shed/byre,I taught to myself for whatever reason,that it would do for me to receive Holy Communion once or twyce a year,come Easter and Christmas time,then in an instant before I had time to think of what I taught, I felt like nothing,emty like a shell like my mind was taking from me,what I was going through hardly lasted a second but felt like an eternity all most unbearable, then as quick as it started it stopped,then after a few more steps it came back again,Before I knew I could call on God in sorrow sin or whatever, Now I felt like I had all my cards played,like I had no claim on God, Then what I was going through stopped,later on I went looking for answers and found them in the following words of Jesus, Truly truly, I say to you,unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood,you have no life in you,
You’ll have to enlighten me, Steve: Why are the pope’s thoughts here something you never expected from a pope? I read this three times and I see nothing at all peculiar.
The headline language. I’ve never seen it used in a non-pop culture context.
But if you’d prefer, he does an entire talk on John 6 while managing never to touch on the transubstantiation or real presence directly in any way.
…because it is a hard teaching?
Because he is preaching “to the whole world” not to Catholic faithful who so desperately need to hear truth. The pablum we get from this pope is only understood in that context.
Would that the Holy Father would focus on preaching to Catholics who are woefully in need of learning the fullness of truth so that they, as is proper, would pass it on.
Pablum from the Holy Father, taken in this context, is precisely what undermines the efforts of those faithful who actually speak the truth in an effort to pass on the Faith.
Charity does begin at home and when the salt loses its savor it is of no use but to be thrown out.
…the peculiar aspect of the Pope’s talk is that he vaults completely over the lesson of this passage. The Disciples rejected the notion of eating Christ’s flesh and blood. That is what rocked their world. As in, “….how the heck does He expect us to eat His Flesh and Blood.” (The Disciples that departed had already followed Him across the sea to hear Him preach. They were obviously in it for the long haul.)
Having a Pope draw back from that perennial hard teaching seems to me a calculated effort to fall short out to fear that the teaching IS hard. And since the Pope’s job is to uphold and defend the fullness of the Faith, it seems very odd.
OK, I see why you were nonplussed now, but I think dbwheeler is right. The pope meant this (remember, it is a translation!) in the sense that we used to say “rock the boat.” And in that sense, Francis is quite correct: Jesus’ does rock the secular boat, or at least he should. I differ with PGMGN below because I don’t think he meant to ”vault completely over the lesson”, tout le contraire. You’re right, he never used the word “transubstantiation”, but I’m not sure most of his listeners would know what he meant if he did. People today are — it’s embarrassing to admit but nonetheless true — far less educated about these important matters than their grandparents or even the people listening directly to Jesus. I can’t really fault Pope Francis for wanting to meet his audience at the (admittedly low) level of their understanding. As a 30 year veteran of teaching high school kids, I know you’ve got to start somewhere.
I disagree. I actually think the case is well-made here, so I won’t try to re-create it.
http://corbiniansbear.blogspot.com/2015/08/pope-provides-protestant-explanation-of.html
I read what the link you sent. Yes, there are many other things the pope could have said and didn’t, but because he didn’t say them in this particular homily doesn’t really prove much….except that he didn’t say them in this particular homily. To deduce from that a lack of belief in the real presence is somewhat of a leap. Look, I don’t think the pope’s approach to non-believers in general will be successful (viz. basically, let me get them into the pews with soft stuff and then unload on them), but I don’t think it’s productive to parse his every syllable to discover possible crypto heresy either.
….no need to search for crypto heresy. It is a completely valid expectation that the Pope teach Catholic truths. And while the Pope’s talk doesn’t necessarily indicate a lack of belief in the Real Presence, it does indicate a lack of Faith in teaching the truth as it has been handed down. That and a woefully missed opportunity wherein the watered down, skip over was employed.
Let’s amicably disagree. I think you are too harsh here; you think I am too lenient. As I imply above, I fault the pope for what I see as his insouciance in the face of serious problems within the hierarchy, and his way of teaching by example is not mine. But I’ll cut him some slack for not covering all the bases in this homily, even if one of the missed bases is home plate.
It is not a matter of whether we amicably agree to disagree, Johnny. We are not tasked with defending and passing on the Deposit of the Faith. The Holy Father is.
To use Francis’s metaphor, if the Church is indeed a field hospital, then triage is part and parcel of saving the souls entrusted to such. Dismissing those most critical and far reaching wounds and treating them with placebos is no mercy. Unless, of course, an empty placebo is all one has at one’s disposal. The other possibility is that the physician has lost his faith in the true medicine.
And that is precisely why the Holy Father’s actions are so odd and worthy of concern. Would a physician opt for empty talk when he has the resources at his disposal to save a life? Really? That’s the issue, not what you or I think of the Pope. He is a vessel.
” We are not tasked with defending and passing on the Deposit of the Faith.” I don’t mean to be disputatious, but I believe that as laymen we are so tasked. Taken them in the aggregate, I agree that the pope’s actions over the last two years or so are worthy of concern. It’s just that I don’t see this particular incident as necessarily part of the worrisome pattern.
Pope Francis only occasionally hits us with real whoppers. Well, it’s more occasionally than any of his predecessors of recent memory, but still.
As an aggregated collection of teachings, though, his homilies, speeches, and interviews paint a picture of materialism and an all-but-complete eschewal of higher spiritual realities. There’s nothing eschatological in his teaching. He has on several occasions implied that the miracle of the loaves and fishes was not an actual multiplication. He has subverted the greatest commandment in favor of the second, which follows from it. He has more than once opined that Mary had doubts, or was angry, or thought she was lied to.
He talks incessantly about the poor, the environment, the economy, but almost never of the Eucharist, of the sins that beset 21st century man, of devotions, of what we must do to get to heaven.
Bit by bit, he paints a picture of a man who is spiritual but not religious. Kind of a rough spot to be in for a pope.
So maybe, taken on its own, the omission of anything resembling actual Eucharistic language in a discourse on John 6 might be excusable. As part of a whole? It’s downright troubling.
It is downright troubling, Steve, and a clarion call to prayer for the Holy Father who needs our spiritual help.
Thank you again for outlining the behaviors. I know there are those who cannot – or will not – discern between serious, legitimate concern and a perceived personal attack. Those intimations, however, are often only a means of distraction from the seriousness of the situation.
But what discerning simply from the picture that Francis himself paints, he is a man suffering a grave spiritual malady.
Fair enough. In the context of his past actions, both you and PGMGN make a valid point. I want at every turn to give the pope at least the benefit of the doubt, but I truly think the cardinals could have made a better choice two years ago, someone like Cardinal Marc Ouellet, for example.
…I said that we are not tasked with defending and passing on the Faith to the same degree that the Holy Father is bound to do.
That is why when the Holy Father downplays that which is Catholic truth it renders our job nearly impossible for those who would otherwise be taught can and do reference what Francis has said. (…manufacturing invincible ignorance, as if folks today are just too backward to understand the truth when in days gone by Catholics successfully catechized pagan hordes.)
Much like if you as a teacher had a principal or parent pretending that the details of whatever subject you were tasked with teaching were immaterial. Not quite working as a team, that. And not very conducive to upholding the Truth. Not to be disputatious, but I’m sure you get my meaning.
And whereas you may not believe there is a worrisome pattern, what you believe about the situation is not the issue.
Francis’s odd take on the story of the lepers and, more recently, his implying that the miracle of the loaves and fishes was merely due to Christ’s leadership in encouraging folks to share what they had are seriously disturbing and detrimental to upholding that which is Catholic. Also, this venture into being green.
Again, this is no attack against the person of Francis. On the contrary, it is rather a highlighting of what could rightfully called a spiritual attack on the vessel tasked with upholding and defending the fullness of the Deposit of the Faith.
Thankfully, OnePeterFive and other truly Catholic websites concerned with truth and the upholding of Catholic teaching are there to highlight these issues.
Otherwise, there would likely be far less faithful Catholics praying for the Holy Father during this grievous time of crisis wherein it is increasingly apparent that he is in great need of prayer.
“…People today are — it’s embarrassing to admit but nonetheless true — far less educated about these important matters than their grandparents or even the people listening directly to Jesus.”
Johnny, it is precisely because of what you say that it is imperative for the Pope, the one tasked with teaching, to be clear and teach the hard lesson, that is the simple but true lesson, that is difficult to grasp.
The Disciples who left, left because they couldn’t comprehend (that is understand) how it could be that they must eat Christ’s flesh and blood. (That is they had no idea of the concept of the Blessed Sacrament. Today’s Catholics should. And if they don’t, that’s red lights and sirens to explain now, not later.) That is why misdirecting the lesson is not helpful, especially when it comes to the Pope.
As a homeschooling Mom with 23 years experience, I find teaching the truth and backing it up with an explanatory lesson to be best. The why is because, even if it’s hard to understand, the job is to teach – not skip. I find many children delighted at being treated like educated adults instead of having everything broken down as if they were only capable of minuscule understanding.
But I do agree that the soft pedal mode of rounding up folks only to ‘hopefully’ get them to the hard teachings later will not work. Kids and people in generally are smarter than we give them credit for being. And one thing folks don’t like and often recognize a mile away – especially when thoroughly educated – is being patronized.
I don’t see anything either. He doesn’t use ‘rock you ‘ as a pop phrase, but as ‘shaken up’ by what His disciples heard. Pretty tame, really, for this pope.
…or perhaps it was what my first interpretation was when I first read it…I thought it odd to say Jesus’ disciples were disappointed because He wasn’t the Messiah of now when the verses make clear they were really turned off and disgusted because He told them they must eat His flesh and drink His blood to have eternal life. So basically the pope turned this completely on its head and said something rather apropos of nothing and undermined the whole passage.
Let’s Get Rocked.
Def Leppard – Lets Get Rocked (Official Music Video)
Jesus said,”I am the Living Bread, which came down from heaven. If any man eat of this bread, he shall live forever: and the bread that I will give, is my flesh for the life of the world”; “He that eats my flesh, and drinks my blood, has everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed: and my blood is drink indeed. He that eats my flesh, and drinks my blood, abides in me, and I in him”; “He that eats me shall live by me.”
To be fair, the meaning of the Italian (since I speak, read and write it fluently) is not “rock our world”…
“Sempre le parole di Gesù ci mettono in crisi”
What this Pope is saying (reading) is that Jesus’ words scandalize our world because they expose it. Therefore the world finds it difficult to understand and practice them.
The literal translation is, “the words of Jesus put us in crisis.”
Thank you. It’s very odd that Thomas Williams, who has lived in Rome for a while now, would mistranslate this. I wonder if there was some deviation from the prepared text?
You’re welcome. If I correct all the English translations done for decades that are coming from the Vatican, I wouldn’t have time for nothing else. I usually read the texts in Italian or Latin or French or the 3. I glance at the English every now and then especially if I notice a major controversy/mistranslation. I can’t speak for others though.
So what we are seeing is that there is no one in the vast, vast Vatican apparatus that speaks both English and Italian? Are we given the Pope’s words as he speaks them in Italian and left to our own devices? What about Lombardi and Roscia? This is a mess.
Au contraire. Pope Francis does everything in his power to make sure Jesus words do not rock our world or challenge our ways in a secular society. In the above example, Jesus talks about the need to actually eat His flesh and blood. That was the hard saying. At that time His dying on the cross was not perceived by hardly anyone. Pope Francis wishy-washy and confusing interpretation of Catholic doctrine is certainly demanding of no one. Thus Pope Francis has chosen other issues to “rock our world”, like income redistribution and climate change.
Yes. And disturbing is that when modern Catholics get this kind of garbage they have no comparison. Why would the Pope interpret Jesus words in a novel way every single time? Has he not read the traditional interpretations that have stood us in good stead for centuries?
Why would Pope Francis interpret Jesus words in a novel way? Because he doesn’t believe what Jesus said or finds they don’t conform to his essentially Protestant faith.
….it is the continuation of ‘manufactured’ invincible ignorance wherein Catholics are robbed of the Faith within the very bosom of Holy Mother Church. The new evangelization is all about spreading Pilate’s gospel of, “..what is Truth?”
https://youtu.be/sgy_TFeIyiM