Sidebar
Browse Our Articles & Podcasts

Vatican Issues Statement Contradicting Cardinal Zen

A new statement from the Holy See Press Office today indicates that despite assertions to the contrary from an outspoken Chinese cardinal, Pope Francis is fully aware and approves of recent diplomatic steps taken by the Vatican to appease the Chinese government.

Yesterday, we reported that Cardinal Joseph Zen, Bishop-Emeritus of Hong Kong, had released a statement explaining recent events in Sino-Vatican relations from his own perspective — including his recent meeting with the pope on January 12th. Of that meeting, Cardinal Zen recounted:

[T]he conversation lasted about half an hour. I was rather disorderly in my talking, but I think I succeeded to convey to the Holy Father the worries of his faithful children in China.

The most important question I put to the Holy Father (which was also in the letter) was whether he had had time “to look into the matter” (as he promised Archbishop Savio Hon). In spite of the danger of being accused of breach of confidentiality, I decide to tell you what His Holiness said: “Yes, I told them (his collaborators in the Holy See) not to create another Mindszenty case”! I was there in the presence of the Holy Father representing my suffering brothers in China. His words should be rightly understood as of consolation and encouragement more for them than for me.

I think it was most meaningful and appropriate for the Holy Father to make this historical reference to Card. Josef Mindszenty, one of the heroes of our faith. (Card. Josef Mindszenty was the Archbishop of Budapest, Cardinal Primate of Hungary under Communist persecution. He suffered much in several years in prison. During the short-lived revolution of 1956, he was freed from prison by the insurgents and, before the Red Army crashed the revolution, took refuge in the American Embassy. Under the pressure of the Government he was ordered by the Holy See to leave his country and immediately a successor was named to the likings of the Communist Government).

With this revelation, I hope I have satisfied the legitimate “right to know” of the media and of my brothers in China.

In a clarifying note at the bottom of his statement, Zen re-iterated, however, that despite the “consolation and encouragement” he found in the pope’s words, the Vatican’s demand to replace certain legitimate Chinese bishops with government-appointed ones is a serious problem:

So, do I think that the Vatican is selling out the Catholic Church in China? Yes, definitely, if they go in the direction which is obvious from all what they are doing in recent years and months.

The impression of his overall assessment is that the compromises between the Vatican and Beijing — compromises Zen opposes — are the fault of Vatican diplomats, and not the pope.

Immediately after his statement began making the rounds, Crux, an American Catholic news outlet funded by the Knights of Columbus and seen by many as a virtual propaganda arm of the pope’s agenda of “reform,” ran a piece with the headline: “Cardinal Zen attacks Vatican efforts to rehabilitate government-appointed Chinese bishops“.

Such a bold headline — which almost instantly generated outrage from Catholics concerned for the plight of the faithful in China — was perhaps the first indication of how the Vatican viewed Zen’s statement.

Today’s statement from the Holy See was a less direct slap in the face of Cardinal Zen — but a slap nonetheless:

With reference to widespread news on a presumed difference of thought and action between the Holy Father and his collaborators in the Roman Curia on issues relating to China, I am able to state the following:

“The Pope is in constant contact with his collaborators, in particular in the Secretariat of State, on Chinese issues, and is informed by them faithfully and in detail on the situation of the Catholic Church in China and on the steps in the dialogue in progress between the Holy See and the People’s Republic of China, which he follows with special attention. It is therefore surprising and regrettable that the contrary is affirmed by people in the Church, thus fostering confusion and controversy”.

In other words, Don’t listen to the meddling old Chinese cardinal who is worried about his people who are simply trying to live their faith without communist interference. The pope is on board with the current Vatican Ostpolitik, and fully approves. 

Catholics, take note.

179 thoughts on “Vatican Issues Statement Contradicting Cardinal Zen”

  1. Jesus is always Victorious, satan loses – why are so many playing in the losers kingdom for the loser of all losers? The Lord does not wish the death of the sinner but that they repent and live….may we all enter into the Marriage Feast of Glory one day! Mary, Help of Christians, promptly to come to our rescue!!!

    Reply
    • Perhaps. Or perhaps Zen was very smart. Perhaps he has forced the Pope to declare himself publicly so that he must personally own the repercussions and not be able to hide behind “diplomats.”

      Reply
    • Cardinal Zen has most definitely not been “duped”. He is playing a very difficult hand in the face of papal treachery.

      Reply
      • I mean no disrespect to the good Cardinal who has suffered greatly for the Faith. My commentary is directed at the one whose words are again unclear and obfuscating.

        Reply
        • For “obfuscating and unclear” I think we infer evasive and devious. But Cardinal Zen himself has said that the sell-out of the underground Catholic Church in China has been underway for “months and years” and his most recent statement indicates that he sees the sell-out becoming more manifestly obvious.

          Reply
  2. I believe Cardinal Zen’s account.

    I also believe Francis lied to his face deliberately.

    The PR geniuses at the Vatican have now clarified where Francis stands and his full responsibility for this heretical betrayal with a kiss, wheras Zen was trying to save his face.

    Thanks boys!

    Reply
    • Technically speaking, Pope Francis didn’t lie to Cardinal Zen. He never said, to this day, that he’s fully behind this. Imho, the Vatican is sending Cardinal Zen a clear message: don’t bother the Holy Father any more on this issue.

      Reply
  3. http://www.catholicculture.org/commentary/the-city-gates.cfm?id=1552

    The Vatican ‘clarification’ on China talks only makes things worse
    By Phil Lawler (bio – articles – email) | Jan 30, 2018

    In its statement on the controversy surrounding talks between the Holy See and Beijing, the Vatican has affirmed what was never in question, while leaving the key question unanswered—at best.

    The January 30 statement from the Vatican press office is brief enough to be quoted in full:

    The Pope is in constant contact with his collaborators, in particular in the Secretariat of State, on Chinese issues, and is informed by them faithfully and in detail on the situation of the Catholic Church in China and on the steps in the dialogue in progress between the Holy See and the People’s Republic of China, which he follows with special attention. It is therefore surprising and regrettable that the contrary is affirmed by people in the Church, thus fostering confusion and controversy.

    This statement appears, of course, in the wake of an impassioned plea from Cardinal Joseph Zen, who has repeatedly warned that Vatican negotiators do not recognize the dangers of appeasing Beijing. Cardinal Zen did not charge that the Holy Father was failing to listen to his advisers in the Secretariat of State. Quite the contrary. The Chinese cardinal worried aloud that the Pope might only listen to the Vatican negotiating team, and would not hear the anguished voices of loyal Catholics in China. So the emphatic statement that the Pope is listening to his negotiators is not likely to reassure Cardinal Zen and those who share his concerns.

    And actually it’s worse than that. In his public statement, Cardinal Zen made a point of sparing the Holy Father from direct criticism; he suggested that the Pope himself was not aware of talks about removing faithful Chinese bishops and replacing them with government-backed prelates. If there was any point on which the cardinal claimed a rift between the Pope and his advisers, it was here: Cardinal Zen said that the Pope was not responsible for that plan. Now, by saying that the Pope is completely in tune with his collaborators, the Vatican is giving the impression that the Holy Father did fully approve the plan.

    If that is the true meaning of the Vatican statement, it is likely only to inflame the controversy. If that is not the intent, it has perpetuated the confusion.

    Reply
    • I remember back when it was all but impossible for subscribers to post anything critical of Pope Francis over at Catholicculture.org; even the mildest criticisms of this disastrous papacy were censored (i.e. not posted) by Jeff Mirus. Now things have degenerated to such a level in the Church that even house writers like Phil Lawler here are forced to speak the truth. I guess that’s progress.

      Reply
  4. Cardinal Zen just has to do what he has always done..be faithful.. He is a hero of our faith..the Pope and his henchmen…good luck to that group..its a long way down!!!!!

    Reply
  5. “The impression of his overall assessment is that the compromises between the Vatican and Beijing — compromises Zen opposes — are the fault of Vatican diplomats, and not the pope.” But, it turns out, that’s not the case at all; the pope was and is well aware of how the Vatican is stabbing faithful Chinese Catholics in the back. Let’s look at the positive angle here. It saves us from wasting any effort to revise our impression of Pope Francis.

    Reply
    • However, it will be verrrrrrrrrrrrry innnnnnterrrrrrrressssssssstink to see how the spin doctors in the Apologetics-Industrial Complex (Shea, Fisher, Longenecker, Akin, Madrid, Keating, Staples, et al) will spin this.

      Reply
      • Bet you PF is “Reaching out to rehabilitate” the Communist prelates and “reunite” a “damaged” Church. All in the name of ‘tenderness’ and ‘Mercy’. And Cardinal Zen is trying to stop him out of rigidity and uncharitableness. I’m with Hilary White on this ‘Tenderness’ thing. She says every time he says it she gets the same feeling as when you find something soft and unidentified in the dish water. Makes my skin crawl.

        Reply
      • Maybe they’ll adopt the tactic of Democrat Party lickspittles in our American media have honed of late, viz. simply ignore all the news they don’t wish to report.

        Reply
          • That’s because he really, really, really, really, really, really, really hates Republicans and would be Democrat if the abortion issue would not cause him to lose support even among mainstream Catholics fully embued with the spirit of Vatican II…

            He really tipped his hand during the 2016 election, though

          • I didn’t see it as much then, I guess or wasn’t as plugged into the Catholic “blogosphere” to notice. I think it’s worse cuz he really is disgusted by Trump. Granted, I had serious issues with him as well (to the point of not voting for him) but I could never, ever conscience voting the acolyte of the Molech worshipping death cult known as Planned Parenthood, whose name is Hilary Clinton.

      • Longenecker, and to a lesser extent Madrid, are starting to wake up.

        Shea on the other hand continues his descent to becoming even more of histrionic @$$hat than he already was… :-/

        Reply
    • SJ Green, faithful Christians in communion with Rome in the Middle East have been on their own since the days of JPII, who abandoned them for the sake of ecumenical dialogue with Islam. Why should anything be different with this Pope?

      https://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/fetzen-fliegen/item/3687-the-catholic-church-s-attitude-of-dhimmitude-toward-islam

      When are Catholics going to start re-evaluating JPII’s papacy, canonization or no canonization?

      Reply
      • I share your concerns completely. But I had been told at the time of his canonization (I don’t recall the source) that it was bestowed upon him for his personal holiness and not as commentary or reward for his stewardship of the Church. I believe that canonizations are an infallible action of the Magisterium, so that’s what I hold on to. His almost 30 years as Pope is pock-marked with all sorts of apparent asininity.

        Reply
      • A canonization by a valid pope is infallible. By a valid pope. That is an issue which some question, and which will eventually be evaluated.

        All actions by invalid popes are null and void.

        However, if an invalid pope consecrates a bishop, who in turn ordains priests, the bishops are valid, since the hypothetically invalid pope would be a valid bishop himself, and thus able to validly, although illicitly, consecrate other bishops. Since these bishops would be valid, their ordinations of priests would be valid as well.

        So JPII’s canonization is only in question if it ultimately determined that Bergoglio was not a valid pope. In such a case, all of his canonizations would be null and void. A future valid pope would have to start the canonization process from the beginning.

        Reply
  6. Judas sold Jesus Christ for 30 pieces of silver, now these new “apostles” (?) are selling the “Bride of Christ” and condemning faithful Chinese Catholics to more and more spiritual pain.

    Reply
      • All of the rest of us might just as well get ready for the same thing. This is especially true if we attend only the old Mass in Latin. We are “out of touch with reality,” you know. I know we are not but it’s not hard to see the attitude from the Vatican. I’m publishing a book of Military Veteran’s poetry which I wrote. Some of it I wrote in Vietnam and some of it since. I’ve been thinking about the possibility of doing the same thing with Catholic religious poetry as a history of our troubled times. I do remember what the Church was like in the past because I was born in 1944.

        Reply
  7. How stupid can the men in the Holy See actually be? Cardinal Zen offers Pope Francis an out from this mess by indicating that it was Parolin et al behind this and Pope Francis had told them to do otherwise. And now the Holy See press office offers up the above imbecility claiming Pope Francis is fully informed and on board with the current betrayal of the Catholic Church in China?

    Stomping on their own toes.

    Reply
        • as tallorder pointed out above, that they’re moving to normalize contraception. I hope this will be the last straw for those who refuse to see what AL, the authentic magisterium, for what it is. Out of it comes Communion for the adulterers, normalization of contraception, and normalization of same sex (in the works). I can’t wait for them to announce the normalization of these abominations as authentic magisterium, then the picture becomes crystal clear.

          Reply
          • I read polling data that reported 98% of Catholic women use contraception. Why would this be the last straw?

          • I’m sure I read that data reported but I’d never be sure of polling data myself. I do happen to see this reflected in the Catholic women that I’ve known so I don’t find it particularly incredible.

          • Yes, this data was probably not collected in the service of good but my point is that there is not going to be an uproar of outrage from Catholics if contraception is normalized. And I don’t really think there will be if same sex “marriages” or “blessings” are either. Many think gay couples are great and are good friends with some, so.. hey normal. And many think that married priests won’t molest their kids, so scratch off that straw too. If they touched Transubstantiation, well..I don’t know how many believe in that either. They’ve been taught that good Protestants and atheists go to Heaven and they don’t believe in it, so what’s the harm? If laity can save the Church it would have to be very few. So, I was hoping for very few Bishops? I don’t know, at this point, what can save Her.

          • The crisis in the Church will end when:

            1) the Third Secret of Fatima is revealed – NOT the Vision in 2000, but the exact words of Our Lady which follow: “In Portugal, the dogma of the Faith will always be preserved…”

            and

            2) the Collegial Consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary by the Holy Father in union with all the bishops of world.

            That’s what God asked for through Our Lady of Fatima on June 13, 1929, and to this day NO pope has done it exactly as God wanted. And when God wants something done, He wants it done HIS way.

          • Today’s leaders in the Church wrongly view such widespread acceptance of the pill as a movement of the sensus fidelium, taking it as a sign from above that the Church must follow the lead of these “faithful”. Everything is upside down in the Church, I feel somewhat like Alice in Wonderland each day as I read the latest developments in the Church.
            May Mother Mary, Destroyer of Heresies, soon defeat this madness!

          • First off, artificial contraception is against Catholic teaching;
            secondly, 98% of people doing it doesn’t make it right. Case in point, 100% of all people sin, doesn’t make it right.

          • Yes. THEN it will becomes cristal clear.
            But I keep wondering myself how on earth it can be possible that Catholics of good faith needs that things go so far before it becomes crystal clear?
            What kind of faithful ones we are in these days? And with this, I mean especially the clergy!
            It seems like most of Catholics these days (last decades) are working on some kind of non-chargible batteries.

          • He is the Holy Father, the Vicar of Christ. Until and unless it becomes crystal clear, we always give him the benefit of the doubt.

          • The thing is that it was long ago (for many), already crystal clear that is everything but Holy, even if the whole world would say that he is. After all his extremely unholy deeds. An completely other thing is that the others, the RESPONSIBLE ones, of the same grandeur, are after five years still not brave enough to declare things which are and must be for most of them already, really totally, – crystal clear.

          • It’s clear to us who visit this site and/or the few others who have their ears to the ground. I’d like to know how many read this site. Do you have a tally, Steve?

          • I agree, Mr. Chow. I used to have a God-son who was recently ordained a priest for the Diocese of Hong Kong. He got to know Cardinal Zen quite well. He told me the cardinal is a LION, and very, very smart. He thought the world of him!

          • I think you missed my point, Tony. Your defense of Bergoglio is untenable. Your remark, “Until and unless it becomes crystal clear, we always give him the benefit of the doubt.” tells me you’ve been asleep for the past four years. That’s how long it has been crystal clear that Bergoglio is a liar, a deceiver a dictator, a Protestant, an enemy of Christ and about a dozen other identities I could ascribe to him. He is in the process of destroying the Catholic Church. He just handed over the faithful Catholics of China to his Communist pals, who will bury them within three months. That is pure treachery.

            Believe me, he has long ago forfeited the benefit of the doubt.

          • Do you know how many people fought, and are still fighting, between what we saw the past few years and Matt 16:18?
            As far as selling out to the Communists, one can still argue that this is only bad policy, not being heretic.
            I suspect many faithful Catholics are keeping silent due to Matt 16:18. One of my fellow catechists, with a MTS, very devout and faithful, still tries very hard to defend the indefensible.

          • The picture has been clear for years, and it might be well to remember Humanae Vitae was opposed by most of the bishops in the world when it was released. You can bet there is more good news on the way. See Tony Chow above.

          • My understanding is that the NNO (New New Ordo) being developed that will be acceptable our “separated (heretical) brethren” is to eliminate the rite of consecration.

    • They are not stomping on their own toes. Their goal is to betray the Church in China to the Communists, and they are proceeding with that.

      Reply
        • Perhaps. But he was under cover at that point. Now, it appears he is starting not to care. A tyrant who does not care about the appearances of magnanimity or benevolence will be a much more brutal one.

          Reply
          • Naturally he doesn’t care. He’s in the drivers seat with lots of cheerleaders inside and outside the Church and there’s little anyone can do to remove him and he is now much closer to fulfilling all his master’s wishes by setting the stage for the main antichrist as well as the beast.

          • Looks to me like he is steadily losing support on many fronts. Only the diehard Francis Fanboys are still singing his praises and even then, they are far more cautious than they once were, for fear of backlash

  8. Catholics, take note.

    Noted. After the apparent schism, the Vatican is going to back secular governments over faithful Catholics. China is a bellwether.
    This is needed, though. We got the pastor we deserve. I know without a doubt that I deserve worse.

    Reply
    • tallorder, I’m sick and tired of Catholics parroting the old line, “we get the bishops we deserve.” This is nothing but Catholic guilt and false humility on steroids! Who in their right mind believes that faithful Christians deserve false shepherds, borderline (at best) apostates, power-hungry clerics and their sycophantic toadies? This is like making the laity responsible for the clergy. Now, you might argue that the clergy, ultimately, come from the laity. But clerical (and clericalist) training stamps out any amount of sincere faith, replacing it with a passion for intellectual novelty and institutional arrogance. That has been SOP for far longer than most Catholics are willing to admit!

      Reply
      • Catholic guilt

        Man, all of this began before I was born. We all contribute. Absolutely, the clergy come from us. There aren’t any clergy farms where their eggs are kept warm until hatch. Our entire culture is pervaded with degeneracy so it’s no surprise that our clergy behave like the general populace.

        Reply
        • tallorder, would you blame the Papal Pornocracy from the eighth to the eleventh centuries on the laity?

          The whole “we get the bishops we deserve” idea is nothing but running interference for the clergy. When do the clergy and hierarchy get to be held accountable for their sin? Or is the idea of blind deference to authority so precious to Catholicism that people are willing to sacrifice common sense and sound judgement to it?

          Reply
          • I would be willing to bet that the general populace in Rome at the time behaved very similar to the way the prelates did. Also, that isn’t a totally fair comparison as we have technology that allows for the spread of the most perverted thing imaginable to reach even the most secluded such as aboriginal peoples. It is very easy for this mess to spread.
            I’m also unsure why you think I’m absolving them for their bullshit. You’re either putting words into my comment or speaking in general as if there is a large body of Catholics out there that are doing so.

          • I’m speaking in general and, perhaps in the process, I’m misinterpreting your words and intent. I do think, however, that too many Catholics blame themselves for mistakes for which they are not responsible. Supporting my assessment of clerical(ist) culture is the fact that when the clerical sex-abuse crisis broke at the turn of this century, many theologically conservative Catholics were trying to get answers and demand accountability, but were stonewalled by bishops. That has to do more with institutional arrogance than a wicked laity — and I say that agreeing with your comments about much of the laity.

          • Yeah, you’re definitely right about the hierarchy. Considering the John Jay College report to the USCCB of 2012 showed that around 81% of the abuse was homosexual in nature, I would say that the problem is largely an institutional homosexual problem. I forget who said it, but they made the point that homosexuals have no allegiances to any organization they are apart of outside of their circle of fellow homosexuals. They’re bound by their perversion and only promote others within it.
            The same could be said about heterosexual ephebophiles and pedophiles.

        • I think that even a few commenters on this very blog can attest to the fact that the clergy that could have come from the laity were very purposefully forced out of seminaries if they weren’t down with sodomy. They didn’t keep their mouths shut either. There have been books written about their testimony, like Goodby Good Men.

          Reply
      • Bad bishops and priests are a chastisement from God that we get as a result of our sins…so yes, we get the ones we deserve.

        Reply
      • There’s a difference between what we individually deserve and what the Institutional Church – as a whole and in different countries – deserves. God is tender and merciful with us as individuals, but not so with countries and regions, or the whole. Whatever was set off in the 1960’s hit the Church globally for the most part. And just as Adam’s sin – which we individuals had nothing to do with – we all pay the consequences. But friends, take heart, we here who lament, all have kept the Faith whereas it seems upward of 80% of others, did not. Pray for all the faithful that we remain just that, and that the others wake up to their loss.

        Reply
      • It is the height of arrogance to assume that one is “a faithful Christian” and deserves better treatment from God. After all, all this is happening with God’s permission.

        Tallorder is right. We deserve this. There are more ‘unfaithful Catholics” than “faithful ones”. We have all sold the Lord for a penny at one time or another.

        Reply
        • Peter, what you fail to understand is that when you and others say, “we get the bishops we deserve,” you are making God into a sadist. Yes, God demands holiness and righteousness. But He is the One who provides that through His Son. God knows who are His adopted sons and daughters. If you don’t believe that, read St. Paul’s Letter to the Romans and stop putting your faith in mindless conventional wisdom.

          Do you think those Catholics who have been faithful deserve these apostates and false shepherds in cassocks and miters? They are an abomination to a holy, righteous God because they take His Name in vain while promoting their garbage! Read Jeremiah 23: 9-40, for starters. God makes a distinction between his faithful and the false shepherds who abuse their authority for their own gratification.

          Reply
          • Peter, what you fail to understand is that when you and others say, “we get the bishops we deserve,” you are making God into a sadist

            Not quite.
            The Israelites were exiled for their sins. What ever awful thing befalls us we deserve them. We deserve all the bad things we get. The Good is always God’s mercy – totally gratuitous.

            As for Catholics who have been faithful, how many are truly faithful? We might thing that we are faithful but we delude ourselves. We deny the Lord several times a day in ways big and small.

            At best, what we do is we TRY to be faithful, but failing to do so often.

            These things are sent to try us and train us in fidelity.

            And already we fail by trying to tell the Lord that He is not doing a good job in allowing all this. For that is what all that whinging amounts to.

        • I disagree. If God would give us what we deserved for our behaviour and sins, than wourld wouldn’t exist from Adam and Eve at the first point! Christ didn’t gave us promise that evil will not prevail IF we don’t make sins. His Passion and Sacrifice would than be thrown in the wind.
          That is not true!
          God promised that good will prevail, and glory and win belongs to Him!
          If He would look sins of people, than Church would literarly never have one saint priest.
          On contrary, God always gives us His Mercy and forgivnes. And he always pulls his people from the mud!

          Reply
          • On contrary, God always gives us His Mercy and forgivnes.

            Indeed. And these bad priests and bishops probably constitute His mercy but we don’t see how yet.

          • I didn’t say that. I am saying that God does not send bad priest and bishops on purpose to His people. God always wishes and gives the best to His children. But we have duty to pray (just like Jesus said) for workers on God’s fields!
            And if we do not pray and feast on that purpose than we are not cooperatig with God.
            We have duty to pray and God will send saints to His people!

  9. Every bit of news on this that comes out just shocks me. All the pussyfooting around the idea of the so-called divorced and remarried, the desire to change practice enough that doctrine has de facto changed… all that, I’m used to and I can deal with. But giving up millions of Chinese Catholics to their persecutors? How can a person who’s even remotely decent do such a thing? He can’t… We have not only an unbeliever, but an evil man somehow occupying the papacy. Lord, grant us the grace to make it through.

    Reply
  10. I think Kiwi in America hit the mark yesterday when he opined that Francis is angling for an invitation from Beijing for an official papal visit. and all the high praise would receive as a result.

    Reply
    • Praise from who? Communists? This is not like Richard Nixon’s visit where some thought a visit would reduce risk of war. This is just a surrender.

      Reply
  11. I think of the great Jesuit Matteo Ricci and his efforts to evangelise China. The Vaticans role there is not too distinguished.

    Reply
  12. “vatican” issues statement, who’s the Vatican? I’m not Vaticanlic, I’m Catholic and these people at the “vatican” don’t speak for me nor do I believe a word they say.

    Reply
  13. I didn’t believe for a minute that Cardinal Zen’s words which cast doubt on PF’s lack of full cognizance were anything but a game of “face”. That is the Chinese way when it comes to saying or doing things which you know may put your elders in a bad light. Cardinal Zen would lose face if he did something which would make the Pope lose face. I cannot imagine what is going through his mind right now after the Vatican press office has effectively said that the Pope is the chief traitor.

    The morons in Rome obviously don’t have a clue what they are dealing with when it comes to the Chinese – either the Chinese government or the Chinese Catholics. Hyperultramontanism died an ugly death in China today.

    Reply
    • Nice insight, one I believe is very likely the complete story. I had forgotten the concept of ‘face’, so important in China.

      Reply
      • As one of my offspring married into a Chinese family it is very difficult for us to forget about “face”!!! 😉 Consider what these actions of the Vatican have done to the face of Chinese bishops – we just think of it as betrayal – for them it is far, far, far, far worse.

        Reply
        • On so many different levels. We need only reflect on the degree of betrayal we here have experienced at the hands of the Argentine has his cohorts in dog collars.
          This is absolutely shameless.
          Heartbreaking.

          Reply
    • Exactly, Cardinal Zen offered the Pope the benefit of doubt for the sake of honor for ones superior (to allow him to save face), which puts Cardinal Zen in an honorable position for honoring his superior.

      Yet, the Vatican chooses to bring shame upon themselves and openly admits that this is all taking place under the watchful eye of Sauron… oops, I mean Francis. Idiots at best…and most probably far, far worse than the best, though still idiots.

      PS: I am not Asian, nor Chinese and I don’t do face in the face of tyranny.

      Reply
      • Idiots, but wily ones. They have made no error – as far as their agenda goes. Communist appointed bishops will bring about, in one way or another, the full control of the Church in China into Communist hands. Not only do the legitimate bishops lose face, but so does every faithful Catholic. As China goes, so will go the rest of the Church – at least that is the plan as I see it.

        Reply
        • Yes, appointing atheistic Communist compliant/controlled Bishops…what could that harm? And the SSPX isn’t recognized but Communist appointed Bishops are…because mercy.

          Reply
  14. Zen now joins the ranks of Burke, Brandmuller, Ejik, the dearly departed Cafarra and Meisner and (surprisingly) O’Malley as “Cardinal who has criticized/questioned/rebuked the Pope about something.” Maybe the dominoes are starting to topple? We can only pray that is the case and that the number of cardinals increases.

    Reply
  15. This reminds me of a quote from “The Dictator Pope”

    Probably the best-known of these is the one of Félix Bottazzi, an employee whom the Archbishop decided one day to dispense with, and he arranged his dismissal without showing his hand33. Once he was out of the Curia, Mr Bottazzi sought an interview with Cardinal Bergoglio, who received him with friendly confusion: “But I knew nothing about it, my son. You surprise me …. What did they sack you for? Who did it?” Mr Bottazzi did not get his job back, but Bergoglio presented him with a new car, and he went away convinced that the Cardinal was a saint, pushed by forces beyond his control and dominated by a circle of malicious subordinates. — Colonna, Marcantonio. The Dictator Pope (Kindle Locations 476-481). Kindle Edition.

    Reply
  16. I, a faithful catholic has lost the trust of any news coming from the Vatican! I totally believe in Cardinal Zen’s poignant statement.

    Reply
  17. How old is Cdl. Zen? Is he a papabile?
    A man who would fly directly to the Vatican without an appointment and stand in line to wait for an audience with a Pope he disagrees with, on behalf of people whose well-being he cares for–well, that is man with a confident, steadfast faith. How refreshing.

    Reply
  18. Why would anyone expect anything else from a pontificate stuck in the counterintuitive mode? It
    is the masque utilized by the duplicitous and mendacious in order to render a kind of credence to their antics. If the groundlings don’t understand the man it renders him as being of superior
    insight.
    Welcome to life of the Church in the West.
    The Chinese have endured horrors at the hands of secular maniacal atheists for the love of Jesus
    Christ horror which none of us can imagine. Now they can look forward to enduring the same at the hands of the same in ecclesiastical vesture.
    Let no one forget, the current Superior General of the Society of Jesus, Arturo Sosa, is an unapologetic Marxist, elected to his office in October 2016 with the participation and approbation of the third world Jesuit pope.

    Reply
    • Did you read this interview from Cardinal Parolin, containing this zinger, “Expressions such as power, betrayal, resistance, surrender, confrontation, failure, compromise, should make room for others, such as service, dialogue, mercy, forgiveness, reconciliation, collaboration, communion.”? http://voxcantor.blogspot.com/2018/01/c-ardinal-parolin-was-interviewed-on.html I can’t express the anger I feel right now that these men are passing themselves off as the Church. Are these guys and Clinton and Obamas handed daily crib sheets? It’s like they’re all singing different lines from the same song and it’s a bad, impure evil song, that we shouldn’t have to listen to.

      Reply
  19. We live in a disturbing time. Pope Francis seems to be leading the Church into schism. We are witnessing a return to Pope Paul’s failed ostpolitik policies. This is a betrayal of Chinese Catholics who have suffered for generations under a communist regime.

    Since Vatican II the Church has been overcome by modernism. Before Vatican II popes talked about the faith, sin and the need for penance in order to save one’s soul. Today the Pope speaks of Ecumenism. He writes amoris laetitia and with a single footnote throws the whole Church into confusion. He seems to be encouraging opening the priesthood to marriage and possibly females. He persecutes Tradition. If Pope Pius X and Pope Francis were to have a conversation it would be amazing to believe that both are both popes of the one and same Catholic Church.

    Reply
    • Your last sentence actually must put men into thinking about the answer on this one million dollar question; – How can that be true!?
      That for example, one very devoted Catholic true Vicar of Christ, the pope Pius X., – and one, who is to the bone more than anything else an anti-catholic, Jorge, they both can be seen as true popes of the SAME Catholic Church of our Lord Jesus Christ?

      Reply
      • It can’t be true, Ivan. I’m not crazy and I know with every fiber of my being that it can’t be true. Margaret refers to the Fatima vision but this vision speaks of a Pope and a Pope is Catholic, maybe bad or weak but Catholic. We have to hope for our Pope and Bishops to all be converted to Catholicism before we can hope they release a secret or consecrate Russia; this is no small hurdle. They’ve had more Catechism than any Aztecs or pagans in the world ever had, if they’re still not Catholic how are we supposed to convert anti Catholics that ARE the Magisterium? It doesn’t make any sense.

        Reply
        • Indeed Melanie.
          “…if they’re still not Catholic how are we supposed to convert anti Catholics…”
          That’s the BIGGEST real issue that we have. And then, when they are not Catholics (any more, and some of them for a very long time already), they don’t belongs to the Mystical Body, the Christ’s Church anymore! If they don’t belongs, and are NOT the part of His Mystical Body, what they are then? The ENEMIES, the anti-Catholics, who are then per definition also the anti-christ’s. Ipso facto?! ‘Officially excommunicated’?! Of course not. But who really cares.
          If Jesus Christ is my Lord and my God, and I can assure everybody that HE IS, then anyone who is against Him, who speaks, writes, acts and even thinks against my Lord and His Holy Catholic Church, – is my enemy too!

          Speaking about conversion of enemies of the Church,… yes, we can and should keep praying for their conversion. As I do that every day praying Rosary for, among other, that intention too. But I think we should not expect, every of them can or will be converted. Just look for a while behind us, how many heretical theologians and certainly clergy ended their lives here, as the best ‘examples’ of the Catholic Faith? Even as the saints, even as ‘the great ones’.
          The truth is that many of the enemies will end their lives here suddenly, without converting,… which is a fact that must make us conscious about the situation in which we are and which is going to be much worse.
          Those, who are (were) responsible for rejecting the God’s help through His and our Mother Mary, the Lady of Fatima, many of them are already gone from here to stand up before the Almighty Judge… The other, responsible ones, who are still living their earthly lives here and now, and who are (not)doing the same as those who already died, – how do you see they conversion happen? And more important question is – why our Lord would do that to them and to us? Because they and we deserves such divine mercy? But, it was already given to us, let say one hundred years ago, and we (they) MUST do (have done) their part of that work, to get a chance to be converted and all other benefits after that.
          And we (they) still, even anno 2018, just DON’T want to do that.
          How then to expect any conversion of all those deceived, sinister, and many by devil himself possessed evil man?
          Until they do what they must do, what they already must have done, they will suffer, they must suffer. And we must suffer too, because we all are partly responsible for this bad bad bad situation with our personal behavior, which always have also a social consequences, among other things and surely our own sins which we all do and did before, – all that make a huge (negative) impact, not only for us as persons, but certainly impact on the society in which we live (and sins collectively)

          BTW. Every anti-catholic, anti-christ who makes clearly that he hates Christ and His Church and actively undermine Church and Her teaching, making in that way a very great danger for many souls, simply deserve to hear,- ANATHEMA SIT!
          Do we remember how did Jesus for less say to Peter then; – “Begone satan!”
          PS. It doesn’t matter that they don’t even believe in satan anymore.

          Reply
          • Not relevant to the issue.

            Or rather, proves the point. Bergoglio has NOT ever tried to “legitimate his own conduct dogmatically”. He has pretty much done it every way BUT “dogmatically”.

            He has put both front wheels over the cliff, to be sure, but has yet to stand on the accelerator.

          • Bull. You can believe that if you have to but I know that’s not true and there is no way that you can convince me by outlining the hierarchy of authority of Papal decrees so, we’ll just disagree completely. And the only thing that is irrelevant is Bergoglio’s conduct. I am totally uninterested in whether he is a dictator, a jerk, a big fat meany, a liar, a fag. I am interested in his “bullarium,” which is clear to any mental defective not Catholic or even Protestant, or even Pagan; it defies reason and natural law.

          • I have no idea what you are saying here.

            Name a proclamation of infallible dogma proclaimed by Bergie.

            There isn’t one.

            That’s part of the problem if you will, with the dogma of infallibility. It is a limitation, but only of extremes. It really says nothing about what a Pope can do in his everyday speech, reflections, lower level writings, selection of bishops, etc.

            I would submit that even at this late date the Church hasn’t truly worked out what “teaching” is.

            Was Bergie “teaching” when he misquoted Jesus in EG 161? An argument could be made that anything he does is “teaching” of a sort, but I we don’t go that or we’d have a LOT of problems with many more Popes than Bergoglio.

          • Rod, if you have no idea what I’m saying, I’m not sure why you bothered to respond. I know exactly what you’re saying. You have a novel belief in the Papacy as a mere figurehead that seems to have organically and logically developed as a response to a Papacy that is clearly not Catholic in it’s teaching role on any level. I understand the urge to jettison the dogma of infallibility and the Petrine Office to save every other dogma but I’m not prepared to jettison one piece of my faith in response to a guy, who is clearly not Catholic, pretending to not only be a Catholic but to be the Vicar of Christ on Earth. I’m going to keep it simple and call it for what it is, the man is not who he claims to be. I know, love and serve God and I will recognize a Catholic Pope when we have one and I’m fully prepared to die a Catholic even if we never get one in my lifetime.

          • You have no idea what you are talking about. I hold no such position.

            You just described your sedevacantism in detail, at the same time trying to make the case that you are Catholic. Good luck with that.

          • Well, I’m in good company as you just said the poor persecuted Chinese Catholics are likely not living according to the teaching of the Church. I don’t know who you think you are making assumptions that they wouldn’t be celibate under the religious persecution of an evil communist regime. I would make no such assumption. You are not my judge and “Good luck with that,” is not very charitable. I thought it was kind of mean.

          • Good grief. You blather out a groundless accusation about me and whine about that? In spite of the fact that I edited it because I myself thought it sounded hard?

            My inquiry above is serious, about a serious issue.

            Judging?

            Do you even read what you type?

        • Here’s one who should be beatified & canonized:

          Prayer for the Beatification of Confessor Patriarch Josyf Slipyj

          Most Holy Trinity, glory and honour to You for the graces bestowed upon the Pastor of the Ukrainian Catholic Church, the Servant of God Josyf Slipyj, and for giving us a shining example of unshakeable faith and heroic perseverance of a defender of Your persecuted Church and an authentic witness of the Crucified Christ, throughout 18 years of severe hardship in Siberia.

          Through his merits and intercession, grant us the strength to follow Christ on His Way of the Cross and help us obtain the grace, which we most need and for which we ask….(name it). May this received grace lead to the elevation on the altar of the Blessed your good, strong and faithful son of Your Church. For to You belongs all glory, honour, adoration, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, Amen.

          Reply
          • Some thirty five years ago, a priest at the Ukrainian Catholic parish I attend, Fr. Paul Babiak, was ordained by Patriarch Josyf Slipyj. Yes, let him and Archbishop Szczeptiskyj, Slipyj’s predecessor, be canonized instead of Paul VI. These names are “Greek” to most readers of this blog, I suspect, but we know who they are. Vichnaya Pamyat.

          • Cardinal Zen is following in the footsteps of these worthy prelates who led our Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church when it was underground.

            May Their Beatitudes intercede for Cardinal Zen and our suffering Catholic Chinese brethren!

  20. Time to declare a SCHISM.in.the faith Luther statues and stamps.in.the Vatican and now this .I.hate to call a sitting Pope Bergoglio Francis a two face liar but if the shoe fits wear it…

    Reply
    • Not the first time I’ve read someone call for a declaration of schism. Who would make such a statement, and what direct impact would it have on the daily lives of us poor blind pew sitters? Certainly the USCCB would stay within the Popes Court, and presumably bulk of their Bishops/diocesan priests. What exactly would such a declaration accomplish?

      Reply
      • Need for.Pope bennedict and majority of red hat Cardinals to do this. Pointing out apostasies of Martin’s Amer. Mgz and Vatican attempt to.make dogma out.of human precepts , Laudato so etc……. Call apostates like Luther statue and stamps Sellout of Rc church in red China etc. at the Vatican for what it is schism period

        Reply
  21. Zen checkmated the Francis, here. By stating that Francis wasn’t fully aware of what his henchmen were doing in China, he very deftly conjured up a win-win situation. Either the Vatican denies Zen’s claim by stating clearly that Francis is completely on board with the treachery (which is what happened), thereby revealing Francis’ role in the betrayal of Underground Catholics, or the Vatican agrees with Zen, thereby portraying Francis as an incompetent boob who’s not on top of his job.

    Nice move, your Eminence.

    Reply
    • Very true. And he framed his assertion in a most respectful way, as befits a Christian. He gave him every chance to repent or clarify, while boldly presenting the truth of the disaster besetting his flock for the faithful to judge and respond accordingly.

      This cannot be ignored. Time for Church Princes to rise up in defense of the apostolic line. Doctrine is falling. Now the Apostles themselves are falling. Time to act; respectfully, but boldly. Thanks to Cardinal Zen, there is no excuse to ignore this and remain comfortably ignorant and inactive. The Church is visibly crumbling.

      Reply
  22. The Government of China wants no organisation in mainland China owing allegiance to “foreign influence”, in this case, the Pope in Rome. The CPCA was created to establish state control over Catholicism in mainland China. It was established in 1957 by the People’s Republic of China’s Religious Affairs Bureau to supervise mainland China’s Catholics. Agents of the Association are not ordained priests and some are not Christian, yet they control and take decisions concerning the appointment of bishops.

    This body is not recognized by the Vatican. The CPCA, for example, prevents the Catholic bishops in China from speaking out publicly against laws that gravely contravene Catholic moral teaching, such as those enforcing abortion and artificial contraception. Nonetheless, for years the Holy See distinguishes between the “Church in China” and the “CPCA” as such, and since the 1980s has recognized nearly all CPCA-appointed bishops as legitimate and in full communion with the Catholic Church, albeit on an individual basis.

    The Church continues to seek a permanent settlement. The Holy See does not consider that the “Church in China” – distinct from the CPCA – to be schismatic or that it approves of abortion and artificial contraception and has continued to consider most episcopal ordinations in China valid.

    The bishops who conferred episcopal ordination on candidates chosen in the manner laid down by the CPCA, without a mandate from the Holy See, were automatically excommunicated. However, not all of them are considered to be still in schism since, beginning in the early 1980s, many have declared their full communion with the Pope. Some bishops who refused to accept CPCA control consecrated other bishops, so that there are cases of two “parallel hierarchies” among Catholics in China, the one partly in schism, the other in full communion with Rome, referred to as the “official” Church and the “underground” one.

    So, quite a mess.

    Now what should Rome do? Issue the Chinese equivalent of “Regnans in Excelsis”, declaring the Beijing government illegitimate and releasing all its subjects from any allegiance to it? Should the Church excommunicate all Catholics who don’t resist? Or, simply refuse to cooperate, thereby effectively making all Catholics either “enemies of the State” or handing them over fully to the control of the CPCA?

    Reply
  23. I have a question I hope somebody can answer.

    In China, how do Catholic married couples function?

    Are they all effectively celibate?

    Or do they simply get pregnant and then accept forcible abortion or infanticide as a matter of course? Or do they all practice contraception?

    I’ve wondered about this for a long time.

    Reply
    • there is no one standard answer. first off, China now allows 2 children, officially. And for the longest time, depending on your location geographically, this rule is either enforced, semi-enforced, or can be flexible upon bribes. I remember when the 1 child policy was still in place, a super rich family flaunted, on prime time TV, that they gave birth to the 9th child (or 10th, can’t remember now), and each has his/her own nanny, taking care of them 24/7. Some places allow you to have more children, but only the 1st one has privileges. and you have other places that enforced 1 child policy to the letter.

      Reply
      • Thanks.

        But basically, tho, whether it is 1 or 2 or a few more here and there, the situation is that Catholics are very likely not living according to the teaching of the Church, unless they are virtually celibate.

        I’m curious if the Church has ever issued any specific guidance to Chinese Catholics?

        Reply
  24. I’ve been thinking about this issue for a few days. I just watched The World Over with Raymond Arroyo which dedicated a segment to this issue.

    As clearly as I can state it, here is what I know. The Catholic Church is the true Church and is the Church of Jesus Christ. Communism is a diabolical system of belief originated by the workings of Satan. How can the Church, with the apparent approval of Pope Francis ask faithful shepherds who have endured persecution and suffering to simply step aside and abandon their flock to false shepherds of the so named “Patriotic” church?

    The shepherds of the “patriotic” church owe their allegiance to the communist Chinese government first and foremost. Communism is of Satan. Thus “patriotic” bishops serve Satan. How can a Shepherd who truly loves and serves Jesus Christ and who loves his flock abandon them to shepherds who are sworn to Satan?

    How can Pope Francis ask these faithful shepherds to step down when the communist Chinese government has recently abducted some of the underground bishops, imprisoned and tortured them for periods of time?

    The Vatican seeks a unified Church in China but by submitting it to the authority of “patriotic” bishops who does this United Church serve? Certainly not Christ but clearly Satan.

    We must offer prayer and sacrifices for our Chinese brothers and sisters who have been abandoned to the wolves. This turn of events is sad and evil.

    Reply
    • This one in style at least we can’t blame Bergoglio for entirely.

      As repulsive as it is, let’s not forget past concordats that included unsavory limitations to Church outreach. Indeed, the Pope himself has limited his own power in the agreement the Vatican has with Italy!!

      Compromise is ALWAYS at the core of temporal power and the Church has subjected herself to such restrictions in the past.

      This is no defense of the current direction of the Vatican as it appears with the Chicoms, but it does put it into perspective.

      If you still have some enamel left to grind off, google Reichskonkordat and the Lateran Treaty. That’s get you well down past the nerve…

      Reply

Leave a Comment

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

Popular on OnePeterFive

Share to...