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LifeSite: Catholic Priests “Insisted On” Giving Lutherans Communion

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Last week, I shared a report from Sandro Magister about a Lutheran group in Rome receiving Holy Communion at a Catholic Mass after a meeting with Pope Francis. Some commenters later questioned how accurate the story was. In a followup from LifeSiteNews, we hear a bit more detail about what happened:

A group of Finnish Lutherans were offered Holy Communion by priests at a mass held in St. Peter’s Basilica following a meeting with Pope Francis on January 15, according to a report by the Finnish periodical Kotimaa 24.

Lutheran bishop Samuel Salmi was visiting the Vatican as the head of a delegation that included a youth choir that was to perform there. Salmi says he met privately with Pope Francis.

After the personal audience with the pope, the delegation was present at a celebration of the Catholic mass. According to Salmi, at the time of communion the non-Catholics placed their right hands on their left shoulders, a traditional way of indicating that they were ineligible to receive the Eucharist. However, the celebrating priests insisted on giving them communion.

Salmi told Kotimaa 24 that “I myself accepted it [Holy Communion].” He added that “this was not a coincidence,” and nor was it a coincidence when last year the pope seemed to accept the notion of a Lutheran woman receiving communion with her Catholic husband. The original article, written in Estonian, was translated for LifeSiteNews by Voice of the Family’s Maria Madise.

At that time the pope acknowledged that “explanations and interpretations” of communion may differ between Catholics and Lutherans, but “life is bigger than explanations and interpretations.” He advised the woman to “Talk to the Lord and then go forward.”

“At the root of this there is, without a doubt, the ecumenical attitude of a new Vatican,” Salmi told Kotimaa 24. “The pope was not here at the mass, but his strategic intention is to carry out a mission of love and unity. There are also theological adversaries in the Vatican, for which reason it is difficult to assess how much he can say, but he can permit practical gestures.”

I submit to you that this is a feature, not a bug.

Many of you are already aware of the upcoming joint celebrations of Catholics and Lutherans on the 500th anniversary of the Protestant Reformation — a topic I’ll be covering more here in the coming days. Today, we got word that Pope Francis himself intends to lead a common worship service with Lutherans in a Lutheran cathedral:

Pope Francis will travel to Sweden in October for a joint ecumenical commemoration of the start of the Reformation, together with leaders of the Lutheran World Federation and representatives of other Christian Churches.

The event will take place on October 31st in the southern Swedish city of Lund where the Lutheran World Federation was founded in 1947. While kicking off a year of events to mark the 500th anniversary of the Protestant Reformation, it will also highlight the important ecumenical developments that have taken place during the past 50 years of dialogue between Catholics and Lutherans.

The one-day event will include a common worship service in Lund cathedral based on a Catholic-Lutheran “Common Prayer” liturgical guide, published earlier this month by the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity (PCPCU) and the Lutheran World Federation (LWF).

The commemoration in Lund follows on directly from the publication in 2013 of a joint document entitled ‘From Conflict to Communion’, which focuses on the themes of thanksgiving, repentance and commitment to common witness. While asking for forgiveness for the divisions of past centuries, it  also seeks to showcase the gifts of the Reformation and celebrate the way Catholics and Lutherans around the world work together on issues of common concern.

One of the “gifts of the Reformation” were Martin Luther’s obscene slurs for the pope, and the papacy in general. It’s a fascinatingly self-loathing thing to watch a pope go out of his way to celebrate a man who would have so despised being commemorated by “the Hellish Father in Rome,” as he liked to call the pope.

Sad to say, I don’t think this is the last we’re going to hear about Holy Communion given to Lutherans in the coming months.

101 thoughts on “LifeSite: Catholic Priests “Insisted On” Giving Lutherans Communion”

  1. At a certain point (perhaps now) we need to deal with the fact that the slippery slope of Francis has become a cliff. And he seems hell-bent on leaping.

    Reply
    • He will leap because he thinks he can fly, us sheep who like solid ground will look up for a few moments to see Francis then gaze down the gorge to see a speck of white no more.
      Protestants and their antichrist mentality might get their prophecy fulfilled except with a reversal of roles as his followers and not detractors, Luther and Francis, together again, the lovefest and mutual dislike of the papacy/ Holy Catholic Church should be a time of great celebrating for the pretenders of union with the Holy Catholic Church. Let all embrace the Church of Christ with the goal of catholism and not protestantism, the heresy of corrupt leadership and spirit.

      The Church does not need us to run to the hills to the arms of disenfranchised Catholics for one reason or another but to remain steadfast to her doctrines/ her shepherds who will not do the
      Francis Plunge. The Church, I’m sure will be eclipsed by the negatives instead of the positives, times revisited again and again with a strangled hold of emotions. To live in the past too often takes away from the joy of living in the present with Our Lord and Savior who puts his hand to the plow and keeps moving forward. The Church keeps moving forward with the Lord, we will not stop and keep looking back, we will keep our eyes focused on the promise land, the journey is not a road of gold but full of snakes and thorns, heat and mountains, distractions and disturbances, the Lord has no short cuts, we must go through Golgotha and believe.

      Reply
      • Is this the same holy Catholic Church that gave us the inquisition, the burning at the stake of Jacque DeMolet, the murder of infants in St. Louis by there formally pregnant nun mothers, protection of Nazis who were killing Jews, the hiding and protection of child molestor and rapist priests? This is a church in dire need of holiness. Open your eyes! Catholic tradition had nothing to do with “right” and is simply inflexible habit. We finally have a Pope who will steer a holy path. Embrace his holy actions or embrace sin!

        Reply
        • ‘Embrace his holy actions or embrace sin’, give me a break. No man is holy just because he may be Pope. We are to follow Jesus Christ. The Pope is in service of Jesus Christ, and it is not the Church of any Pope.

          Reply
        • The Holy Catholic Church is recognize by her children who the Lord has placed in her care. We are feed with the best of food and taught without error. We hold fast to our Catholic faith and give thanks for the gift Our Lord gave us, go play in another sandbox.

          .

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        • What was wrong about the Holy Office of the Inquisition? I keep forgetting… The “murder of infants by their nun mothers” is protestant drivel and completely unsubstantiated. As to harboring fascists, the Church very correctly did in a number of cases; as did the greatest Catholic leader not just of the 20th century but for several previous: Francisco Franco Bahamonde (Ora pro nobis). The protection of almost entirely concilliar era faggot priests is true. Had there been the Inquisition you deplore, such filth would have been burnt at the stake, not hidden and their victims paid for their silence. As to “we” have a “holy pope” I think you have the same misguided heretical notion Bergoglio does, that prots are part of the church considering people with your mentality certainly are not.

          Catholicam vel mors! Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus.

          Reply
        • That’s a lot of non sequiturs to pack into one paragraph, Stephen.

          P.S. You might ask exactly who it was that gave signal appointments to well known priest-molester protectors such as Godfried Daneels and Juan Barros, and who continues to defend the appointments publicly against protests.

          Reply
        • Yes, Stephen Wood, the kind of acts conformed to the taste of their age instead of the will of God, as those now allowed or enforced by YOUR favorite priests: hiding and protection of child molestor and rapist priests. Happy supporters of abortion , sodomy, divorce; friendly with the tyrants, they ignore the Christians killed around the globe, lest they lose the claque from the progressive media. Etc. etc.
          Embrace your trendy sin, brother.

          Reply
  2. Is this the end of the world? Since when is a heresiarch who drags countless millions of souls to hell with him a cause for commemoration? By the Vicar of Christ no less? Is he even really the Vicar of Christ? It’s not for me to judge, but to pray for him until this mess is sorted out by a future council or Pope.

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  3. As a former Lutheran, may I offer a humble request? Both here and on sites such as Rorate Caeli, much has been made about Luther’s personal writings (against the Jews, the popes of the day, etc). The reality is that focusing on the man’s personal writings is not actually engaging Lutheranism. Lutheranism is not and never has been defined by Martin Luther’s personal writings (or ramblings as the case may be). Instead, Lutheranism as a theological framework is defined by clearly delineated confessional documents contained in the Book of Concord. Please let the Book of Concord be the springboard for critiquing Lutheranism and not Luther himself.

    Reply
    • How do you separate the two? Is not the “Book of Concord” a direct result of what Luther did and write? Tradition, if you will. I’m being quite serious here…as I do not know. I mean really…the name is Lutheran no matter that he professed to not want it to be called that.

      Reply
      • Luther said a lot about a lot of things…much of which unfortunately got written down. But he wasn’t the only person driving the whole Lutheran Reformation thing. Was he an instigator and the most prominent player? Totally. But he wasn’t alone…Melancthon, Bucer, and a host of others were there prominently in the first generation. And then you have a whole second generation (basically Lutheran scholasticism) headed by Martin Chemnitz and others. So Luther and Lutheran are not necessarily the same thing.

        Reply
        • nobody is down on Lutherans – it is the division of Christian churches we decry. If the sacred Presence in the Eucharist is denied then there is no Catholic Church. Luther was an ass – sorry – but that’s a minor point.

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      • Yes…in the Smalcald Articles. Which, interestingly enough, were prepared in expectation that there would be an ecumenical council held in Mantua to which the Lutheran territories would be invited. That council never materialized since his most Catholic majesty Charles V was too busy fighting a protracted war with his most Catholic majesty Francis I (allied with his most un-Catholic majesty Suleiman the Magnificent) and Mantua was in the cross hairs. Bear in mind that there was also a string of less than salutary officeholders of the throne of Peter in the decades leading up to and during the Reformation who by their inaction, ineptitude, or ignorance did little to check the growing Protestant crisis in its infancy.

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        • You are right however because popes were weak and slow to nip protestantism in the bud certainly does not excuse Francis clasping them to his bosom and telling us we are all the same in Christ’s eyes. Different times, different people, different everything.

          Francis is leading us to One World Religion, and that religion won’t be Catholic. Oddly enough it won’t be Lutheran either – all sects and cults will be swept away. God help us.

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  4. Read the words of luther and see what he thought of the pope and the Catholic Church. Nothing to celebrate. Also, Lutherans are all over the map as far as ‘beliefs’ go: from approving sodomy and abortion to whatever. There is not much in common with such as those. And they do not live sacramental lives nor believe in the Real Presence…

    Reply
    • With all due respect, that last sentence is simply incorrect. Authentic Lutheranism passionately confesses the Real Presence and baptismal regeneration.

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      • I think the Lutherans believe the Host represents the Real Body….I don’t think they believe It IS the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity…..pretty big difference.

        Reply
        • “Of the Supper of the Lord they [the parishes in Lutheran territories] teach that the Body and Blood of Christ are truly present, and are distributed to those who eat in the Supper of the Lord; and they reject those that teach otherwise.”
          “De coena Domini docent, quod corpus et sanguis Christi vere adsint et distribuantur vescentibus in coena Domini; et improbant secus docentes.”
          -Augsburg Confession, Article X

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          • None of this makes any difference. They may ‘believe’ the bread and wine are the Body and Blood…but their ministers cannot make that happen. There is no transubstantiation – none – they believe in a fantasy – even if what they believe makes them sound soooooo close to us….they are in as much error as the pagans.

        • The difference between the beliefs of faithful Lutherans and Catholic teaching is the difference between TRANsubstantiation and CONsubstantiation.

          As far as the belief in the pews, we know the percentage of Catholics who believe in the Real Presence is pretty low, so we may actually have heresy in common to “celebrate”.

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          • Consubstantiation is not a Lutheran term even if some Lutherans might use it. It doesn’t even make linguistic sense. Lutherans teach that the true Body and Blood are present with the bread and wine. Even as Catholics we cannot cling to transubstantiation as the only philosophical explanation of the mode of presence. Byzantine Catholics don’t.

          • What you have described as the Lutheran belief is undeniably consubstantiation, regardless of whether Lutherans use the term widely or not. The Catholic faith is that bread and wine are no longer present, period. Transubstantiation is de fide.

          • I disagree. The polls regarding the real presence are very flawed, at least the ones I’ve seen. Even a lot of other otherwise-heretical “Catholics” believe in the real presence. I’ve never met a professed Catholic who denies it.

      • rtc – May I ask how the Lutheran minister convects this most august Sacrament when Martin Luther threw out the sacrament of Holy Orders? Where is the priesthood?

        Reply
        • Aye…there’s the rub. The Lutheran Confessions make clear that no one may preach or administer the sacraments unless they are “rite vocatus”…properly called. That means (depending on the Lutheran body you’re dealing with) “ordained.” Some early Lutherans (like Melancthon) were willing to call ordination a sacrament…but they didn’t win out. The history of the doctrine of ordained ministry in Lutheranism is fascinating and a reason why I’m no longer one. But at the end of the day they have steadfastly maintained (overall) that ordained clergy are a mandate from Christ himself.

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          • If the Lutherans maintain that they have an “ordained” clergy, who am I to argue this point with them? However, there MUST be a priesthood in order to offer a sacrifice. Does the Lutheran church consider their service a sacrifice or simply a meal? Remember how the Jewish priesthood was abolished when they no longer had a Temple in which to offer sacrifice? It was then that they became a rabbinical or only teaching faith without sacrifice. I have always considered this the protestenizing of Judaism.

          • The answer is they consider it neither. The Book of Cooncord rejects the teaching that the Mass is a propotiatory sacrifice but accepts using sacrifice terminology in the sense of thanksgiving. To get to that perspective Melancthon makes some assumptions about the Eastern Rite (which he didn’t really understand). From a Lutheran perspective, during the Divine Service (the classic Lutheran term) one consumes the Sacrifice (noun) but does not sacrifice (verb)…at least not in an atoning way. It is deeper than a meal though since the focus is on the sacred species that is consumed and not on the gathered community. I suspect that the Lutheran reformers would be just as appalled by the proliferation of communion songs that prattle on about wheat as many on this forum.

          • Do you mean the pharisaical rabbis protestantized Catholicism? I’d agree with that, if that’s what you’re saying.

          • I think I may have miscommunicated what I wanted to say. What I meant was that in 70 AD when the Temple was destroyed, there was no longer a need for the Jewish priesthood because there was no longer the place in which to offer sacrifice. However many of the Jews who were still bound to their culture but did not accept Christ as their Messiah, turned to their rabbis to carry on the religious teachings of Judaism. Many of the rabbis were from different schools of thought and so each began to teach that thought, (much like Luther, Calvin and Zwingli did when they broke from the Catholic Church to begin communities of their own). This then was the protestanizing of Judaism. There cannot be a true priesthood without a sacrifice to offer. When the sacrifice is removed it becomes simply a teaching religion. So, no I don’t think that the pharisaical rabbis protestanized Catholicism, but rather the reformers who broke away. They had a right to complain of abuses within the Church but did not have the right to began a community outside of the Church.

          • Ok, thank you. I don’t agree with your statement: “……turned to their rabbis to carry on the religious teachings of Judaism.” The rabbis were already teaching something foreign to the religion of Moses by the time Jesus was born and then began his ministry. That is why He rebuked them on many occasions.
            However, if you are interested in a perspective that you may not have thought about, revisionist history dot org may be of interest to you. Again, thanks for your clarification.

        • Lutherans do not (ideally) define the length of presence and prefer to consume all the body and blood rather than leave any (this is a large point of debate in some circles). And the sacraments are not numbered in any definitive way. The Small Catechism includes instruction in private confession alongside baptism and communion.

          Reply
          • As a former Lutheran of the ELCA, the bread and wine were discarded after church. Also, private confession was never taught, and the general confession during church was perceived adequate.

          • Ones mileage will certainly vary within Lutheranism…much like in Catholicism. In the LCMS circles I moved in, private confession was regularly taught and encouraged and the remaining elements were consumed.

          • Got to take exception to your statement “one’s mileage will certainly vary within Lutheranism…much like in Catholicism.” Catholics are not free to vary their beliefs – at least not and stay faithful Catholics. It appears that there are many flavours of Lutheranism, as is the case in other sects – that is a feature of private interpretation. This is not to say that all Catholics believe the same things – but they are supposed to!

      • Either way they hold heretical beliefs about the Eucharist and many, many other things. It doesn’t matter how far they veer, they’re all outside the one true Church.

        Reply
      • As they have no ordained priests it is irreverent what they believe. They do not live sacramental lives because they have no confession and cannot be in the state of grace after mortal sin. No priests, no confession, no Blessed Sacrament.

        Reply
  5. I am a former Presbyterian and, as such, I subscribed to the “Westminster Confession” which declared the Pope to be antichrist and the Catholic Church to be the Whore of Babylon. I do not know if the Lutheran Book of Concord professed similar beliefs, but we do know that Luther, along with Zwingli, Calvin and Bucer, professed such doctrines.

    As the Pope is now heading out to “celebrate” the launch of this abominable phenomenon known as the “Reformation” can we take it that he is also declaring himself to be antichrist?

    Reply
  6. There is nothing, absolutely nothing for Catholics to celebrate about the Reformation.
    It was a tragedy from start to finish, weakened Chiistendom gravely and brought about untold human suffering in terms of war, death, resulting famine and starvation.
    In so far as there are any “Protestant” ideas they are a survival from Catholicism.
    We Christians have a renewed common enemy, a resurgent Islam, so we must co-operate. But lets not pretend, nothing good came from the Reformation.

    Reply
    • The Protestants also supported the Muslim Ottoman Empire’s attack on the Holy Roman Empire and desired conquest of Rome. They supported infidels over the Catholic political regime and the one true Church.

      Reply
      • Shall we celebrate the 10,000 Protestant sects birthed since the ghastly Reformation. The Body of Christ being torn asunder and the pope says it’s all good.

        Reply
        • We should be very careful what phraseology we use… once a portion of the Body of Christ is torn away it is no longer the Body of Christ. The body of Christ, which is and subsists only in the Catholic Church, can never truly be torn, but remains indivisibly one, as the Creed says.

          Reply
          • Okay- so then we insist that Catholics explicitly compose the Body of Christ and Protestants are without redemption? I believe the reformation was a disaster for Christianity although I do not contend that non-Catholics are necessarily unChristian. There is only one Christian Church and One Body Of Christ IMHO but how do we account for the snake charmers, and the Holy Rollers and the Quakers and the Shakers and the Unitarians and the Mormons and the Christian Scientists and the Lutherans?

          • Yes. Read Mystici Corporis and the Syllabus of errors. “Imperfect communion” (rather ambiguous language) is not ecclesiological communion. Protestantism in no way forms a part of the Church. The only Church is the Catholic Church. If Protestants are sincere and were never exposed to the true Church, and it was not their fault at all, and they have perfect charity and perfect contrition, God will find a way to bring them into the Catholic Church. If no natural way can be found, then the moment right before death God can reveal the Catholic Faith to them “without which it is impossble to please God”, and they can repent of their heresy and thus become Catholic, a true member of the Church before death. As in the infallible decree of the Council of Florence: “It firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that those not living within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart “into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels” [Matt. 25:41], unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock; and that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those remaining in it are the sacraments of the Church of benefit for salvation, and do fastings, almsgiving, and other functions of piety and exercises of Christian service produce eternal reward, and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.”

  7. My initial reaction to reading the news of Pope Francis personally celebrating the Arch-Heresiarch’s anniversary was:

    May God strike him down first!

    Upon further reflection, though … I stick to my initial reaction. May God deliver us from Pope Francis! Kyrie Eleison. Christe Eleison. Kyrie Eleison.

    Reply
    • What could be wrong about praying for someone to have the grace of a holy death? I challenge anyone to debate that ISN’T a good thing to pray for anyone. I pray it for family, friends – I pray it for myself! And, living near a pilgrimage point for the Jubilee Year, I make frequent trips to the site each week praying for a plenary indulgence. Since I can no longer pray for the Francis’ monthly intention for the Church in good conscience before the Lord after this month’s infamous video, I pray that the Lord protects him from evil, converts him from any ill intentions, and grants him the grace of a holy death… as soon as possible.

      Reply
      • Well, if he tinkers on we’ll have to wait for the buzzer to ring with another coming in white.

        White on White, I’m with the guy coming from the clouds not the one going to his throne, mid air collision, pride goeth before a fall, how many keep trying to reach the fountain of divinity by sneeking in pass the way, the truth, and the life, he strikes all down with the sword of his
        mouth, no taking from God yet here comes another thief going to try the great breakin for the umpteenth time,…hmmn maybe this time they believe they have the key that opens and closes so theirs is the picking, the new God of Surprises coming your way soon, just wait for
        the pressers to start rolling and think no more of what was but what will be, Oh! The divinity of it all, the right God is finally understood, the veil lifted, the treasures open to all, come, come, and be filled with the new message and messenger, collision course coming with the Gods of Revelation.

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  8. Are there any writings of saints or others who lived during the times of the bad popes? Is there wisdom they gained that could help us while we have to suffer under this pope?

    Reply
    • There is a vast difference between those times and what we suffer today. There was almost no communication between the hierarchy and the common pew sitter from year to year. The Faith of the people was not touched other than when local conditions got so bad that real strife broke out.

      Now we know the horrors. The ‘news’ about the destruction of our Church comes down the pipe every second. Much harder to fight, and much harder to take. But we must do both. Fight where we can, and take it because God wills Francis and those who follow him to have free will.

      But remember the parable of the weeds and the wheat. The reapers are coming.

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  9. This is very depressing. It’s as if we’re joining in the chorus that says “Eucharist Schmucarist”! What’s next, a nice facacta evangelical blend of Christian faiths? I’m not saying we should be at war with these folks but the sweet nectar of Catholicism is turning into some kind of drink with 5% juice. Hawaiian punch anyone??

    Reply
    • Read “Lord of the Worlds” and the whole “joining of Christianity may become clearer. I find it very puzzling that Pope Francis endorses this prophetic novel by Mons. Hugh Benson.

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    • Time has proven him correct….but not quite yet. Our Lady of Fatima has not submitted her response yet….She will…..as promised.

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  10. I see two alternatives here:

    First, Francis is deluded. But such a delusion seems inexplicable as he cannot be unaware that what he is doing is an outrage without precedent in Church history: the celebration of an excommunicated arch-heretic, whose errors were infallibly anathematized by an ecumenical council. This is the equivalent of celebrating the life of Arius.

    Second, Francis is a conscious agent of destruction.

    Anybody have any other ideas?

    Reply
    • This is a mockery of mockery just like his monkey show, his stupid homilies and idiot run synod, he wants to outdo Lucifer as God chief
      enemy, he gets my vote. A lightening bolt, an asteroid, an earthquake(in rome) the week of Benedict’s announcement, maybe someone saying No! Yeah, this has really worked out well two look-a-likes, one shutup catholic and another who can’t keep his mouth shut in destroying and mocking what we hold precious, for pete’s sake Benedict, at least be Cardinal Ratzinger in defending the faith, Pope Emeritus is useless, what did John Paul know, apparently alot.

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    • We are “pastored” by a bunch of old men continuing to endorse the catastrophic trajectory assumed when they were wet-behind-the-ears out of the seminary, supporting at all cost the failed and ruinous “ecumenism” and its attendant notions. As they stand on the doorstep of eternity they leave behind, in reality, a bequest of a three-quarter empty Church constructed of matchsticks, plastic tape and mutilated paper-clips collapsing each time someone takes a breath. Attempts to camouflage this disastrous deconstruction of Roman Catholicism while ignoring its decay under the gaze of the Argentine Jesuit are either the result of caving to deception or bad will. Thank you Mr. Skojec and Mr. Ferrara for persisting in bringing a raking light to this tragedy.

      Reply
      • Yes, but Francis and his cohort think bringing down ‘the old Church’ is a GOOD thing. We simply cannot use our way of thinking and plop it into these heterodox heads – they don’t speak our language, they don’t understand how crucial tradition is, and they believe in evolution for absolutely everything including the One True Faith.

        If you were to sit down with Francis and tell him what you wrote, James, he literally would not understand where you are coming from – it is that simple.

        Reply
        • A thought provoking comment, Barbara, “…he literally would not understand where you are coming from …”
          My experience of heterodox clergy clearly indicates without exception that they do perfectly understand and they have rejected the Magisterium of the Church. An erroneous academic training in the seminary supplanted the catechesis, piety and religious ardor that brought them to the service of Christ and His Church. This “legion,” is armed with the hubris of the “religious” academy, “knowing” themselves to be enlightened and entitled to reconstruct the Church according
          to their own lights. I think of them as rather “transcendental atheists.”
          Because of this many good men left.
          Too many stayed and assumed their clerical role, guaranteed some civil respect and privilege, assured of food, clothing and shelter and only a minimum of secular concerns. If they “fell off the wagon” of suppressed desire once and a while they could get away with it.
          Yes, I believe it is that simple. I hope I am wrong.
          We faithful and engaged laity are viewed by the heterodox clerics, now at the very top of the ladder, as pious, naïve, ignorant groundlings to be coddled with smiles and the bogus mercy of koochy-koo kasperian katholicism. Throw us dogs a bone or two, and shut us up. Some of us will stay, some will leave. Eventually all of us will be dead. Then there will be a much smaller “Kirche,” financially viable given the resources that remain, and the uber-left will have had their way.
          Am I overly pessimistic? I hope so. But I’ve seen far too much, especially in the last three years. In the middle of the night the kitchen light has been switched on. The vermin are swarming all over the place. Over thirty years of Pope Saint John Paul and Pope Benedict did little to clear the pests out. They simply hid.
          We need wait some time more. There are many good priests and religious surviving. We need pray for their perseverance and ours. Eventually The Way, The Truth and The Life will prevail. He has His own design. But our Lord has a different perspective on time than we do. It can feel quite long when waiting for the rescue.

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        • Actually Francis is very much like poor Luther. It’s his way or the highway. And I agree with Mr. Dowd – Francis is protestant at heart and thinks what they preach is mercy. Dear God help us!

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    • This could/should be the “So Outrageous” flash point that no sane person or responsible prelate will be able to deny the obvious about PF et al without making a complete fool of themselves and exposing their heterodoxy.

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    • My thought is that the Pope is already a Protestant, a Lutheran, in spirit and, at times, in fact. Most Catholics are also Protestant in everything but name and would gladly welcome Lutherans into the fold. All of this will only add to the Pope’s luster as a man of Mercy and Peace. Folks like ourselves are considered the Pharisees of our day, the rigid, the uncompromising, the outcasts.

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    • The only other idea I have is one that I proposed on another blog after three weeks of this pontificate: he suffers from a mental illness such as bipolar disorder or schizophrenia. At times he appears lucid and cogent. At other times he appears to be incapable of rational thought.

      It could be more mundane than that, though. We know he has impaired lung capacity, and both anoxia and hypoxia can produce symptoms of psychosis. That would also explain his penchant for “losing it” in aeroplanes when air pressure is reduced.

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    • Perhaps there was indeed a portion of the Third Secret of Fatima held back, predicting heresy at the highest level of the Church…

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    • I think he is a “new style” Catholic in some ways. As are a lot of Catholics.

      The organisers of the quincentenary commemoration of the events of 1517 have, it ought to be made clear, avoided talk of a “celebration” – the event in 2017 is not described or thought of as a celebration, but as a commemoration.

      I think this is not a surprising development – the Vatican has practiced pan-religionist indifferentism since 1986, so it is hardly a big step for the Vatican to commemorate an event in Catholic & Protestant history with Protestants. A document on ecumenism in 1993, the “DIRECTORY FOR THE APPLICATION OF PRINCIPLES
      AND NORMS ON ECUMENISM” allowed for extensive sharing of churches, services & so forth between Catholics & non-Catholic Christians: http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/documents/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_25031993_principles-and-norms-on-ecumenism_en.html

      So this commemoration has not come out of the blue – it is the logical result of the Church’s teaching and behaviour since Vatican II. And – as the readers of Michael Davies will have noticed – there is no good in having continuity in doctrine or practice or both, if the continuity is not sound at every single step of the way. For instance:a distorted interpretation of a Papal Encyclical, on which distorted interpretation a distorted practice or doctrine is built, is an example of continuity – but not of continuity in truth and good. The Church’s ecumenical practice has many good and sound and revealed roots – not everything about ecumenism is bad. But the roots are not all good, and the buds and leaves are not all good – so out of something largely good, bad results have come.

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    • And why exactly weren’t those 2 alternatives of yours above applicable to John XXIII, Paul VI, John Paul I, John Paul II, and Benedict XVI? We needn’t list the outrages of Bergoglio’s predecessors, do we? We’re both old enough to remember them, aren’t we?
      Is alternative #2 just the pot calling the kettle black, Mr. Ferrara?

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  11. Are there others anticipating the canonization of Luther by unanimous Bergoglian acclamation? Our ever so progressive theological academics have been ruminating in Luther’s stew of poison at least since theological studies some decades ago. Left wing “theological” deconstructionism by its nature is incapable of relinquishing its disingenuous, passive-aggressive, counter-intuitive rationalizations, turning a sow’s ear into a silk purse. That being said, look forward to Luther’s mega rehabilitation. Pope Bergoglio would surely
    appreciate that as a component of his “legacy.”

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  12. Pope Francis is becoming more delusional, I believe by him going to Sweden to celebrate a heretic, he his causing great scandal by this act and his words at gathering of Lutherans. Is what he his doing something where his brethren clergy should give him the two warnings and to admonish him to return fully to the Faith and repent of these misdoings and if it must go to third warning as is taught by the Church when and if the Pope must step down by teaching clear heresy and then him openly saying to the public what he has done wrong and then the chair of St. Peter is open. Read more on it here http://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/articles/item/1284-can-the-church-depose-an-heretical-pope

    Reply
    • Read the Remnant only if you’re happy to read about all the excuses made for Vatican II and for all popes from Roncalli to the present day.

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  13. I’m lost for words. And, to be expected, more silence from Church Militant, Fr. Z, and others. Do they rigidly adhere to some bizarre neo-Ultramontanist papalotry? Why this tremendous show of cowardice?

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  14. This has me worried. I know, I know there has been a steady stream of heterodoxy from this papacy but this? I think this is serious because this hits people where they live – in the pews, both Catholic and Lutheran. This is day-to-day stuff, not speculative theology – this can’t be ‘come back from…’

    Wasn’t it said shortly after Francis was elected that “give him 5 years and he’ll reform the Church?” And something like “Francis will make such changes that can’t be removed after he is gone?”

    I know in my intellect that God knows all that happens, and that He allows it all, but my heart sinks and I wonder what will become of those souls who are deceived by this pope.

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  15. Within each of us is the desire for unity, for oneness, ultimately with God. It is the end for which we were created. This flows down into a desire for unity among all. Divisions within family, societies, nations are tearing this world apart. The reason for this division is pride, our desire to be like God outside of His Plan for us and this results in sin. Jesus Christ, the Son of God, took on the Flesh becoming in Incarnate to pay for our wretched sins and open us up to Divine Life – to become like Him, one in the Father. He gave us His Real Presence in the Eucharist – Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity to provide real food so as to strengthen us and prepare us for eternal life. He also gave us Peter and apostolic succession to shepherd the faithful, to preach the Good News, forgive sins and to feed us with the Eucharist. The Pope, the bishops and all of the clergy have been assigned a sacred duty – to keep the faithful safe, to give them the Truth. Martin Luther broke away from the Church founded by Jesus Christ, taking many with him and then denied many of the teachings of the Church. Was he right in doing this? Most would agree that the “Reformation” has been a disaster. Christianity is a mass of splinters and shards of glass. There’s a new brand of it popping up everyday. Catholic means universal, one, for all. We Catholics believe in this one, universal, apostolic Church. Pope Francis IS trying to make the Church one again, doing it his way: by giving the people what they want – mercy without conversion. Holiness without discipline. Truth without pain. Jesus without the Real Presence. I have no doubt that our Father in Heaven greatly desires this dialogue and ultimate unity – but at that sake of His Son? What kind of unity is it if its foundation is based upon untruths? It is like contraception within a marriage. The couple may have intercourse, but the full unitive power of the act is denied and therefore the marriage is basically a sham, sterile and cold. What then? What then?

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  16. I came to the Church from the Lutheran faith {after a long trek} and what I find utterly horrifying is the fact that this Pope hasn’t even selected a Lutheran group to “dialogue” with that adheres to a modicum of moral decency, rather, they stand for and support sexual immorality in general and sodomy specifically. So here we have a Pope who stands shoulder to shoulder with a bunch of “Lutherans” who had the Arch-heretic Luther himself met them, would in all likelihood have had them bound and gibbetted!

    Has the leadership of the Church really stopped this low?

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  17. I believe that we are approaching the tipping point which will lead to the temporal (and temporary) corporate and physical destruction of the Church on the public scene. If these manifold events are not the harbinger for the return of Christ, then the Church may publicly and visibly be approaching crumbling into ruins with the inevitable coming fall of the West..

    So, we will have to be faithful and be the remnant amongst the ruined walls and temple of Catholicism. The Lord will be victorious. He will triumph and raise the Church again. I’m thinking a lot these days of the mission of Ezra and Nehemiah bringing back the exiles into Jerusalem and Israel after the 40 years of exile of the Kingdom of Judah into Babylon and, then, Persia. The first reading in the Novus Ordo this past week was from Nehemiah, so it’s on my mind.

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  18. Neither of the parties to the “commemoration” would be very enthusiastic about the actual historical Luther. What is being celebrated is something that came out of Lutheranism but is distinct from it – liberal Protestantism – in the context of the fact that liberal Protestantism and modernism are essentially the same thing.

    The modernists are trying to use “ecumenism” as a way to advance their agenda within the Church – saying that “reconcillation” can only be achieved by conforming the Church to the false doctrines of liberal Protestantism/modernism….

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  19. Luther rejected the Catholic doctrine on the Eucharist and invented the strange notion of “impanation” or “consubstantiation”. Now, this is not in accordance with what Jesus said in the Last Supper and it is far removed from what the Fathers of the Church universally held. Now they consensus of the Fathers is a solid criterion for sure Catholic doctrine, and Luthers position is incompatible with it. They used the word “metamorphosis” or transformation. Luther’s consubstantiation is absurd, as it would imply that the bread remains. No doubt St. Teresa of Avila was right when she called Lutheranism “that wretched sect”.

    Reply

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