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Cardinal Brandmüller on How the Dubia Should be Answered

In a new 30 December interview with Armin Schwibach, the Rome Correspondent of the Austrian Catholic website Kath.net, German Cardinal Walter Brandmüller — one of the signatories of the dubia concerning Pope Francis’ document Amoris Laetitia — has again repeated the five questions of the dubia that were submitted to the pope over a year ago and proceeds to explain how, and implicitly why, they must be answered in accordance with the moral teaching of the Catholic Church.

The German prelate sums up the five dubia as follows:

1.) Can a person who is bound by an existing sacramental bond and who now lives with a new partner in a marital relationship (AL, no 305; footnote 351) receive, in certain cases, “absolution and Communion”?

2.) Are there absolute moral commandments, respectively, interdicts, which are binding without exception and under all circumstances (such as the killing of an innocent person)?

3.) Is it still true that someone who lives continuously in the state of adultery finds himself, objectively, in the state of grave sin?

4.) Are there situations in life which mitigate the moral responsibility to such an extent that an immoral act (here: adultery) can thereby be morally excused, or even justified?

5.) Can a personal decision of conscience permit exceptions from the absolute interdiction of intrinsically immoral acts?

Brandmüller then proceeds to explain how these five questions should be answered in light of the Church’s moral teaching:

As you see, these [five] questions are pertaining to the foundations of the Faith and of the [Church’s] moral teaching. According to those [foundations], the questions 1, 4, and 5 should be clearly answered with “No,” and the questions 2 and 3 with “Yes.”

The astute observer might notice that the answers to the summarized dubia proposed by Brandmüller are somewhat different than those commonly circulating in the English-speaking world, which are often phrased as “No, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes”. This discrepancy, however, is merely a matter of formulation. To avoid confusion, a brief explanation seems appropriate. Whereas, for example, in our own analysis of the five dubia the moral question was phrased such that it had to be answered in the affirmative on points 4 & 5, Brandmüller posits the same basic questions in such a way that they must be answered in the negative; i.e, “5. Does the Church’s teaching that an appeal to conscience cannot overcome absolute moral norms still hold true?” vs. “5. Can a personal decision of conscience permit exceptions from the absolute interdiction of intrinsically immoral acts?” The answer in the first case would be “yes,” the answer in the second would be “no,” but the same moral principle is being stated in both cases.

It is not the first time in recent months that Cardinal Brandmüller has spoken out on this issue. In October of 2017, he made strong remarks concerning those who claim that there might be exceptions with regard to adulterers and their possible access to the sacraments:

[H]e who claims that one may enter a new relationship while one’s own lawful wife is still alive is excommunicated because this is an erroneous teaching, a heresy. Whoever does make such a claim [is excommunicated]. […] Thus, if someone thinks he can contradict the defined Dogma of a General Council [e.g., Council of Trent], then that is indeed quite vehement. Exactly that is what one calls heresy – and that means exclusion from the Church – because one has left the common foundation of Faith. [emphasis added]

In the new interview, Schwibach also touches upon the matter of the recent praise of Martin Luther as it has been expressed by different prelates in Rome. For Cardinal Brandmüller, Martin Luther — while starting out with some reasonable concerns and criticisms — wound up not wanting to reform the Church, but to change her. However, “the Church of Jesus Christ can and shall always become ‘different’, that is to say, more perfect.” In quoting a Protestant Church historian, Franz Lau,  Brandmüller shows that Luther wanted a “radical revolt.” Luther intended specifically – as expressed in his own text addressed “To the Nobility of the German Nation” – to tear down three walls. As the German cardinals explains:

For him [Luther], the first wall was the priesthood based on the holy ordination; the second was the Magisterium of the Church based on the Mission given by Jesus Christ; the third was the existence of the papacy. That these three ‘walls’ have a firm biblical foundation, did not interest the angry Augustinian monk. Now that he has torn down all these three walls, Luther sees that the whole edifice of the papal Church has collapsed. To state that this total destruction is a “work of the Holy Ghost” is a thoroughly bizarre claim which can only be explained with the plain and simple ignorance of historical texts and facts – an ignorance which is more than astonishing for a bishop. [emphasis added]

A specific reference is being made here to Bishop Nunzio Galantino who had recently made such an erroneous statement about and praise for Martin Luther in October of 2017. (Galantino has been the Secretary-General of the Italian Bishops’ Conference since December of 2013.)

Beside this debate concerning the role of Martin Luther, Cardinal Brandmüller also discusses the current claim that man may chose his sexual orientation and may change it if desired. The prelate calls such an attitude a “nearly perverse revolt against the order of creation, against the nature of man as willed and created by God.” He adds: “To act against it [created nature] means the self-destruction of man. It would be a deceptive downplaying.” Brandmüller continues, saying:

It is indeed highly worrisome that the ideological confusion goes so far that one thinks one can carry subjectivism to extremes. That would then be the “No” to one’s own createdness and to the Creator. Man on the throne of God! A grotesque, absurd, and apocalyptic idea.

When discussing the question as to whether the Church should approach with an indulgent attitude those who are at her peripheries, leaving and allowing them to remain in the state they find themselves to be in, Cardinal Brandmüller makes it clear that “Jesus Christ Himself did not preach: ‘stay where you are’; rather, He said: ‘Convert and believe in the Gospels!’” The German cardinal, a Church historian and former President of the Pontifical Committee for Historical Sciences, then criticizes the Church’s current lack of missionary zeal to help these people when he says:

That one exhausts oneself with struggles within the Catholic Church, rather than being concerned about the eternal salvation of the many [outside], shows a shocking lack of spiritual vitality of the Catholics in our days.

Leaving the readers with some encouraging words, the cardinal adds: “The Lord was and is still in the boat, even if He seems to be sleeping.”

167 thoughts on “Cardinal Brandmüller on How the Dubia Should be Answered”

  1. Dear Mr’s Hickson, It’s a joy to see you back on 1P5.

    I’m sure that I’m not speaking for myself when saying that we hope that 2018 is a good year for you and your family and that you all remain in our prayers!

    Reply
    • Thank you very much for your kind welcome, Christopher! We still do need your prayers! It is still a hill we, as a little family, and especially my husband, need to climb.

      Reply
      • I pray your faith is strengthened and confirmed through this hill and that each of you reach the top in total awe of our beloved God and His Mercies.

        Reply
  2. I join Christopher in happiness for your return Mrs Hickson. Cardinal Brandmueller in German intellectual fashion cuts to the quick when required, rather than elaborate interminably. Intrinsic evil means total opposition to the goodness of God, and to the creation of a natural order that reflects the Eternal Law (Aquinas). Sexual preference outside our biological composition is “perverse revolt against the order of creation”, an order willed by God. It is diabolical to the extreme called by Aquinas an “abomination”. My conviction as a youth was if ever Homosexuality were to be universal it would be a sign of End Times. Members Church Hierarchy have embraced it. The revelation of Jesus of Nazareth true God and true Man is the Father’s spoken Word for the salvation of Mankind. He defined what is intrinsic evil regarding remarriage and adultery. Conjugal relation in marriage is Man’s most intimate human act of love, that reflects in the inseparable bond between a man and a woman the purity, loyalty, commitment of love that is the interior nature of divine love itself. We are blessed for having Cardinal Brandmueller. We are cursed with the current aberrant Hierarchy because of our unfortunate collective sins, infidelity that has allowed Satan free reign to seduce and pillage souls. God we are assured has permitted this. God we are assured will save us, and save many of the misled by our unity with Cardinal Brandmueller, the Bishops of Kazakhstan in our witness to Jesus of Nazareth.

    Reply
    • Dear Father Morello, thank you so much for your kindness, lucid comments, and prayers for my husband and our little family! It means so much.

      Reply
      • How is Dr. Robert Hickson? The entire 1P5 family has been praying for him as well as you and your children. You are truly blessed in having such a wonderful gentleman for a husband.

        Mnohaya I blahaya lita!
        Many and blessed years!

        Reply
        • Dear Margaret, thank you so much for your prayers! My husband is slowly recovering. It will take some time, as you might know, to “reconcile” all the different medications and to handle their side effects! Besides that, Robert is home and takes time to rest (inasmuch as our lively children allow him to!). We are hopeful that his heart will recover fully, but that will only show in a few months. Thus, we appreciate your continued prayers! You all have been so kind to us. We will never forget 1P5’s response in our time of need! May God reward you all abundantly!

          Reply
          • Please give our best to Dr. Robert. He’s a true soldier of Christ but fighting on the battlefield of suffering. The Church needs his prayers and sufferings in union with Christ for all our clergy, especially Cardinals Burke and Brandenmuller.

    • What if that sexual preference is not willed by the person but is just present? Is that still active “perverse revolt”?

      Reply
      • If actually not willed no. There are instances of hormonal imbalance, at times influences at an early age prior to rational competency. A good source for questions is the 1975 Declaration on Certain Questions Concerning Sexual Ethics, Sacred Congregation Doctrine Faith called Persona Humana. In any instance abstention is required and certainly treatment.

        Reply
        • How does one get treatment when there’s no treatment to remove SSA?

          How does one even will sexual orientation? No one with SSA decides they want SSA.

          Reply
          • The evidence indicates most same sex behavior is not a natural, inborn driven practice. Attraction to same sex can be and is usually acquired and treatable. Read what I recommended and make inquiry with your Diocese. I cannot assist beyond that except prayer.

          • The Catechism states that the cause of SSA is unknown. Never does it mention treatment, nor the requirement for treatment to be a faithful Catholic — celibacy and chastity, yes. Someone with SSA can have fruitful heterosexual marriage, but that’s not a “cure” for SSA.

            The intrinsic disorderliness is not the issue.

            Is it pastoral for priests to advocate for “treatment” when there’s no evidence that there’s a conversion to heterosexual orientation?

            Whatever St. Paul’s thorn was, Jesus did not remove it. Why should those of us with SSA seek unverified “treatment” when the Church only requires a life of chastity with God’s grace? It will only lead to spiritual suffering when the SSA remains and the person feels it’s due to personal fault that the burden is not removed. Many Protestants with SSA simply turned to active homosexual lifestyle when they tried to turn straight and “treatments” didn’t work.

          • True Paul’s thorn may have been what you suggest. That is not the issue. You don’t find the references I recommended in the Catechism. Parishioners have received treatment and done well. It’s possible however the predilection cannot be treated. The way to know whether such a predilection is not treatable is to make a professional enquiry. Whatever the source of your condition is refrain from sexual activity. That moral tenet applies to all of us depending on our status. Sexual activity is licit only in a ratified marriage. Read Persona Humana which addresses what you’re addressing. If you dispute what I say or advise you are completely free to do so. Again my prayers are with you.

          • What exactly do you mean by treatment? Chastity/celibacy, sure. The definition of SSA is attraction, which is predilection to attraction to the same gender. I think there’s definitely a language barrier when discussing these issues. SSA can be treated, but predilection may not be completely treatable? Something’s amiss.

            The main point that we all seem to agree on is: celibacy/chastity.

            The only confusing part is the definition of SSA itself and what is meant by properly treating the condition.

            Perhaps I read too much into the statement when she said “necessity”. Perhaps she meant greatly encouraged.

            +++ Barbara, if you’re reading this, I apologize for being curt and rude. But behind it, I see the words and actions of….certain ecclesial leaders…who exploit the claim of gays being “marginalized” to support things like LGBT Mass and blessings of same-sex “couples”. Marginalization can be explicit; it can also be indirect in saying that gays are different “kind” of sinners, unclean by intrinsic nature.

            We have to be in at this together, regardless of what kind of sins we commit or are prone to commit. The liberals love to use the word “inclusive”. Well, who is more inclusive than the Catholic Church?

            We cannot let the other side claim that the Church “marginalizes” and “excludes” gays and lesbians in any way shape or form. Yes, gays and lesbians have a different burden to bear. But it is one of many that humanity faces.

          • I am sick of this whole argument.

            You have SSA. So what. I have anger that tempts me to beat the shit out of perverts that cry about their SSA. And worse, I’m attracted to good looking women even besides my wife!

            You are acting like the stereotypical homo. “Oh, I’m so special”.

            No, you are not. You are in possession of a grave and evil inclination.

            Welcome to the club. The club of humanity.

            You have been given sound advice. Follow it. Stop pretending you don’t “get it”.

            You are no different than me or anyone else.

            Want your cure?

            DON’T COMMIT SODOMY.
            REMAIN CELIBATE.
            DEFEND THE FAITH.
            STUDY THE WORD.
            DO GOOD WORKS; GIVE TO THE POOR.
            STOP SPEAKING ABOUT YOURSELF AS A SPECIAL CASE.

            FOLLOW CHRIST.

            NONE of those things require you to do something impossible.

            As for what you FEEL inside, tough, like me you just have to fight that demon.

            LIKE EVERY MAN JACK AMONG US HAS TO FIGHT DEMONS.

            And there is where regular confession and receipt of the Sacraments in a state of grace comes into play.

            Really, it is high time we treat SSA just like every other damn case of concupiscence and call it the simple perversion it is. Start telling yourself you hate it. Just like I hate the temptations of my life. I don’t deserve any special “compassion” and neither do you.

            As for the CCC, what is with the blither about special treatment for sodomites?

            How come those attracted to little kids don’t get equal billing? What about bank robbers? How about those who like to light cats on fire? What about those who like to shag goats?

            Propane, you have gotten way more special treatment than folks like you have gotten for just about all human history. It’s enough. Now move on and fight the fight and quit acting like a child.

            Good grief, our modern culture is so messed up we really need to pull our heads out and get with it.

          • First of all, you know NOTHING about me. And clearly, you have not read the actual contents of this particular thread and seemingly decided to vent your anger.

            I follow the teachings of the Church in regards to celibacy and chastity.

            I understand you want to vent because of the great moral failures of modern society, and it is true. Social moral values are crumbling (at least in the west).

            +++ Did I advocate for change in Church teachings? No.

            What I pointed out is that the Church does not require TREATMENT for SSA, as implied in this thread. It is a burden with no known cause and no known treatment to reverse back to heterosexual orientation.

            Jesus had compassion and mercy for St. Mary Magdalene. She was clearly in sin. Jesus had compassion for the woman at the well who was living in sin.

            The Catechism does NOT mean mercy and compassion as a means to DENY that homosexual behavior is sin. It is objective evil to engage in extramarital sexual affairs.

            So feel free to re-evaluate your self-righteousness, re-evaluate what the Catechism ACTUALLY says, and try to contemplate what mercy/compassion is and is not.

            And read the thread in its entirety before chiming up with irrelevant diatribe.

          • Not surprised…

            Whining…

            I know what you wrote and that is all I responded to.

            Jesus told the woman caught in adultery to sin no more.

            Good advice.

            St Paul and all the history of the Church and God’s teaching in the Old Law make clear just how evil is the rot that you say plagues you.

            “Go and sin no more”.

            There’s your “treatment”.

            Straight from the mouth of the Master.

          • Please point out where I advocated for living in sin or changing the Church teachings somehow.

            Oh, right. You can’t. Because I didn’t.

            The discussion was about whether treatment is complete reversion to heterosexual orientation and removal of SSA, or just simply living celibately.

            You’ve done nothing to contribute positively to answering that question.

            But you certainly did get riled up to judge someone you don’t know. Does it feel invigorating?

            Perhaps you might want to meditate on how pride and anger slip in unnoticed under the guise of righteous indignation.

          • This post of yours proves my point.

            Man are you infused with guilt or what??

            I never said YOU are trying to change Church teaching.

            I said you “You have been given sound advice. Follow it. Stop pretending you don’t “get it”. Sounds like you are just trolling for an excuse to keep doing what you want to do.”

            Because in repeatedly asking essentially the same question that is exactly what you sound like you are doing.

            Of COURSE I am judging. That in obedience to Christ Himself who says “Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.”

            ALL I have done is “judge” {if you want to call it that…citing the condemnations of sodomy in Scripture and the fix through holy living is hardly “judgment”} from what YOU have provided. This is not “appearances” but stated fact you have provided.

            You say you have “SSA”.

            So WHAT?

            It’s nothing special.

            It’s called concupiscence.

            Don’t act on it.

            Don’t make yourself out to be special.

            I gave you a list of sound and solid things to do up north on this thread and others have, too. And still you whine.

            What are you looking for?

            Somebody to tell you it’s OK?

            Follow Jesus and the teachings of the Church.

            And…rivers of living water await you!

          • The issue was that treatment was recommended. Aside from celibacy, what’s the treatment? What is defined as “healing”? Removal of SSA or living celibately or getting married to the opposite sex while SSA still remains?

            It was an ambiguous statement with no support from official Church teachings — other than chastity, there’s no treatment or psychological evaluation necessary (as someone also recommended). If something’s to be recommended, it’s gotta be backed up by some evidence or doctrinal support. Even the word “attraction” caused confusion: is it active will of the mind for lustful purposes or involuntary attraction to the *physical* aspect of someone without a sexual component?

            There’s no complete treatment for concupiscence either. It’s just there as part of fallen human nature.

            Imagine someone telling you that you must be treated to remove the inclination towards lustful thoughts or whatever kind of sin. Is that even possible or expected by the Church? We are expected to resist temptation, not get RID of the temptation or inclination by treatment.

            +++ I asked either for definition of treatment in this particular situation (because it seemed to advocate for something in addition to what the Church officially teaches), or Church teachings that recommend steps XYZ to remove SSA. No one provided either.

          • “There’s no complete treatment for concupiscence either.”

            Yup.

            You got it.

            That’s all that needs to be said but I’ll humor you and go further, and then, bud, I’m done.

            Because you are really sounding obstinate and playing with words and reinforcing what my BS radar has been signalling for some time now.

            1} You have been told over and over the answer to your questions.

            2} What does the Church say? Good grief man, a TON!! Live a chaste life. Seek God. DO things that are good and wholesome and healthy. Physically turn your eyes from evil. Study the doctrines of the faith and follow the teachings of the Church. DON’T do things that lead you to the bad place. Steer clear of ANYTHING that leads you to think, smell, hear or feel evil. Get your head in the Bible and spend your time in good deeds. Go spend some time on the internet and I’m sure you’ll find plenty of encyclicals that more or less say exactly what I’ve tossed at you, here. And while you are doing it, steer clear of the gay porn sites.

            3} PERSIST in righteousness. Yeah, buddy…TIME doing what is good matters. A LOT.

            You are screaming for a quick fix here. Hey, guess what; There isn’t one. There is absolutely no guarantee your tendencies or mine are going to go away, but I can damn sure guarantee you that they will stay and grow if you ignore the advice you have gotten from many here.

            That’s it. Sure, there’s psychological stuff you can play with but make sure you don’t get that advice from a secular guy that you have the hots for or who has the hots for you.

            Dude, it ain’t rocket science.

            The best views are often seen at the end of the toughest trails.

          • We BOTH agree on all three bulletpoints.

            =========
            The confusion lay in the original post where it recommended “treatment”. I sought clarification for what is meant by “treatment”, whether he means celibacy is sufficient or a person with SSA needs to seek psychological help to turn straight to be right with God.
            =========

            Did you provide ANYTHING that clarifies what is meant by “treatment”?

            No. You provided a litany of Church teachings that no one disputes in the first place, so is extraneous at this moment.

            DOES A FAITHFUL CATHOLIC WITH SSA NEED TO SEEK OUT TREATMENT, AND IF SO, WHAT DOES THIS ‘TREATMENT’ ENTAIL?

            That was the +++++ONLY++++++ ambiguous point, NOT the Church teaching on celibacy and chastity.

            “You are screaming for a quick fix here.”
            PLEASE POINT OUT WHERE I AM SCREAMING FOR A QUICK FIX. I ADVOCATED FOR CELIBACY AND CHASTITY. PLEASE POINT OUT WHERE I SAID OTHERWISE.

            Don’t put words in my mouth.

            YOU’RE the ONLY one talking about sinful behavior. NO ONE brought up that topic because it was obviously understood that they are forbidden sins.

          • Dear Propane,

            According to our Priest everybody has a poverty and I agree with him. What he means is that everyone has an inclination to a particular sin that is mortal if there is not a desire to change and to ask for forgiveness through the sacrament of confession some of what most people consider venial actually becomes mortal.
            Eating too much.
            Smoking too much.
            Drinking too much.
            temper, lying, pride, jealousy, greed, selfishness etc.

            I hope that this helps you because it has helped me to understand the faith better. So what I’m trying to say is that going to confession has helped but the poverty that I have is always going to be with me, however some of them have disappeared and some new ones appear but we have to keep on confronting our own personal poverty.

          • EXACTLY!!

            Yet somehow the whole sodomy thing has reached specially-privileged class status even in the Church {prolly cuz of a fag-permeated priesthood?}.

            Being fat {gluttony} is riding hard on the heels of the Gay Lobby, so let’s brace ourselves for Extraordinary Sinner status in the next edition of the CCC.

            While those poor chain smokers just get kicked out on the street and can’t even enjoy themselves in a good pub anymore!!

            Oh the injustice of it all!!!

          • Thank you for your words.

            If there’s one thing I learned while discussing on this traditionalist site, it’s that it is so very easy to judge others, not for God’s sake and the offense done to Him, but because this or that, such and such, are contrary to OUR will and understanding and that causes us mental anguish.

            I have done the same to non-believers and Protestants.

            Taste of my own medicine, I suppose.

            Good day, sir.

          • Let me suggest a sense of humor.

            Laugh at yourself.

            I know I do at me, and I’m not laughing with me, but at me.

          • Earlier, IANS observed that sodomites are subversive and your actions here prove the truth of the observation.

            You have subverted the topic here – Refusal of Our Pope and Our Cross to answer the Dubia as he is bound to do so – and you have even IANS, who KNOWS sodomites are subversive, falling for that tactic of subversion.

            This is not a thread about sodomy.

            Adios

          • Dear Propane,

            Have you ever the life story of St. Mary of Egypt? I am going to give the link here:
            St. Mary of Egypt – NEW ADVENT
            http://www.newadvent.org › Catholic Encyclopedia

            I hope you have a chance to read this. After you do read of her, perhaps you can ponder on this from Canticles of Canticles 2: 8-13 ( The love of God for His Church and His Creation)

            8 “The voice of my beloved, behold he cometh leaping upon the
            mountains, skipping over the hills.
            9 My beloved is like a roe, or a young hart. Behold he
            standeth behind our wall, looking through the windows,
            looking through the lattices.
            10 Behold my beloved speaketh to me: Arise, make haste, my
            love, my dove, my beautiful one, and come.
            11 For winter is now past, the rain is over and gone.
            12 The flowers have appeared in our land, the time of pruning
            is come: the voice of the turtle is heard in our land:
            13 The fig tree hath put forth her green figs: the vines in
            flower yield their sweet smell. Arise, my love, my
            beautiful one, and come:”

            Stay with Christ. It is Him you and I are set out to please . May the Sacraments of the Church, His graces bring you peace, the peace only Christ can give.

          • I don’t know why people keep assuming I’m promoting something against the Church.

            For this ENTIRE thread, I’ve maintained the need for celibacy/chastity for those with SSA.

            Maybe people should stop assuming that just because one has SSA, one has some evil plan to destroy the Church or break the moral law.

            The only clarification I wanted in this discussion was what the priest meant by “treatment”, whether it’s celibacy or needing to get rid of the *inclination* as a requirement to be a faithful Catholic. The former is taught by the Church; the latter is not.

            (And yes, I’ve heard of St. Mary of Egypt; hopefully one day the Catholic and Orthodox Churches can unite so we can be more aware of the wonderful saints in both traditions.)

          • Sodomites are subversive. It is part of their disease. They seek to undermine all laws and values of any organization stupid enough to admit them into levels of governance.

            There are seven capital vices, each of which have corresponding virtues that can be practiced to greatly minimise, if not neutralise, the vice.

            Pride, Envy, Anger, Sloth, Greed, Gluttony, Lust (sodomites).

            It is only the sodomite, riven with lust, who routinely undertakes special pleading to mark himself out as a victim.

            There are no collectives of any other category of sinner who badgers others with their vices and seeks a special status.

            And no, IANS is not impressed with the use of any specialized language developed by those who hate the church (psychiatrists) and so it is sodomy and those to weak too remain virtuous, sodomites, as tradition has always referred to them.

            And yes, there are programs that can cure you and reorient you to normal sexual affection/attraction and you could search them out online

          • Christ can give peace, but those that judge my intent and motives as sinister are taking it away.

            One person even said he can’t understand why the Church teaches in the Catechism compassion and mercy for those with SSA. Throws around the word “fag” like it’s nothing.

            He’s ready to rain down fire from heaven on us SSA people, but thank God Christ admonished His disciples and set a better example.

            I’ve learned my lesson. Minimize interaction with self-righteous know-it-all holier-than-thou traditional Catholics.

            It’s for my own peace.

          • Rod, you have vented and many may not like it. But I find relief in your words. I want to have compassion. I truly want the best for my brothers and sisters whoever they are. But like you I want to move on. We all have troubles and I would like someone to have sympathy for me too while I bear my Cross. I have sorrows that bring me to my knees every day. Don’t be discouraged if you are slammed for your rant. You have spoken for me too even if you had to ‘shout’ to do it. And I mean to be charitable here.

          • Bravo, Rod. I’m also very tired of “special” treatment of those people. I’m a single mother. For 18 years I raised my sons all by myself. The world, my mother and, yes, my fallen creature concupiscence were telling me I need, I must! have a man. But God’s grace is enough to conquer all.

          • The other side is your side if you have faith in Christ and the Church He established. Faith includes teaching on sexual morality taught by Christ, and the Apostles known as the Apostolic Tradition. Turn to Christ with faith and eternal life.

          • What have I written that denies faith in Christ and His Church?

            SSA is a burden for some. There is no known cause, but all who deal with it must practice celibacy.

            There is confusion with wording. This always happens with this topic.

            “Homosexuality” meaning sinful lifestyle or SSA?

            You mention “perverse revolt”. Well, does having SSA mean the person is in perverse revolt, or does it take active will to commit sin to be in revolt?

          • I have read Persona Humana as you recommended: there is no mention that treatment is required, as you suggested in the previous post. Unless I misunderstood what you meant by “In any instance abstention is required and certainly treatment”.

            If celibacy is considered treatment, then that would make more sense.

          • Then we must have read different documents. Actually celibacy is the best option for you as it is for many today.

          • I do agree with the Church teaching on celibacy. But treatment implies turning straight — or at least it can be (mis)understood as such in common parlance.

          • Try to do some investigation of your family tree, to see if any of your ancestors were cursed, had dealings with the occult, or committed some crime. You may be suffering from oppression (not possession) by a “family” demon of impurity who is afflicting you through SSA. Do this research; then see if you can consult an exorcist for deliverance prayers. Pray to Our Lady of Sorrows to reveal to you what you need to learn, and to St Michael to keep evil influences from harming you. God bless.

          • Might I suggest you look into Courage? Its website will explain lots of things to you about same-sex attraction, its root causes, treatment, necessity of frequent Confession, daily Mass and Holy Communion where possible, a good traditional priest as Confessor and Director, and a ton of other information you won’t hear ANYWHERE else.

          • People seem to have different definition of “treatment”. Curing cancer is one thing; alleviating the symptoms is another. “Treatment” to resist temptation is one thing; “treatment” to turn heterosexual completely has yet to be shown. The Catechism says the cause the SSA is unknown; psychologists can put forth their theories, but celibacy is required whatever the cause.

          • “Curing cancer is one thing”

            Except it is never truly “cured”. Should you be misfortunate enough to have canver, but fortunate to apprehend it before it is terminal; upon successful completion of treatment; your oncologist will notate his or her files as “N.E.D.” No evidence of disease. He or she will not write E.N.D (evidence no disease).

          • So you prove my point. Terminology and semantics are important.

            What is meant by “treatment” of SSA? No SSA? Marriage to opposite sex? Suppressing inclination while not completely eliminating it? Attraction to the opposite sex? Just living celibately while still having SSA?

            Curing of cancer would be elimination of all malignant cells.

            What would be curing of SSA and what steps are to be taken?

            NO ONE has answered this point.

            And frankly I greatly regret getting involved in what turned out to be fruitless endeavor.

          • I’m not sure what your objective is here. Nobody is saying there is a cure. We know people develop a variety of attractions, conditions, fetishes and obsessions and that we have no (clear) cause or cure.

            Sometimes you simply have to live with the condition.

          • This goes back to a post (way above now).

            The priest mentioned treatment for SSA. And that the inclination/attraction is willed in some capacity. Will = Consent to sin. That attraction alone amounts to sin is definitely not what I have been taught, but maybe some things have changed or I’ve been taught wrong. Who knows in this day and age? Maybe there’s nuance to the original post that I missed.

            I just wanted clarification about this alleged “treatment” that Catholics with SSA are supposed to seek out. Or what the final successful outcome of this “treatment” hypothetically even is. If those with SSA *are* supposed to seek treatment to become straight, where’s the evidence that it’s worked or that the Church expressly teaches this?

            Resolution to ambiguity. That’s all I wanted.

            That’s all I asked for. Not suggestions to follow the Church teaching. We ALL agree on that. That’s a given obviously.

            +++ Why do you people assume I have some hidden agenda to malign the Church somehow?

            ALL I wanted was clear distinction and definition of what “treatment” entails and Church documents that advocate for said treatment.

            If treatment = celibacy, that’s fine. We ALL agree with that.

            But if there’s new teaching about treatment for SSA, we should know about it.

          • I had a lesbian employee. After some time I she revealed her father was at least emotionally abusive; and perhaps physically as well. As far as I know, she never sought treatment for those traumas.

            Perhaps if she had sought treatment for her abuse, the frequency or intensity of her SSA might have been reduced, even if it is not completely abated. No doubt, the dissolution of her marriage (to a man) to pursue these attractions created more trauma.

            There is no magic bullet.

          • I have never heard that daily Mass is necessary for salvation of souls. But somehow, it’s implicitly expected of us with SSA but not straight people with whatever their issues are? Subconsciously, are we seen as more wretched than straight people?

            Pride is the greatest sin and the worst enemy of the soul. By the reasoning above, *everyone* should go to daily Mass, nay *has* to go.

            We with SSA don’t need your pity and heavier burdens and expectations not taught even by Holy Church and Her Catechism; that just implies we’re different and separate from you, marginalized.

            Do you know why priests like Fr. Martin (who espouse ideas contrary to Church teaching and tradition) are heard with sympathy? Because the “traditional” side implicitly marginalizes us by subconsciously telling us we’re not like you, that we’re singularly burdened with a different *kind* of temptation.

            There is much talk about disorder, and it is true: SSA is intrinsically disordered. But there are many kinds of disorders, and those that affect everyone else are not talked about with the same vehemence. This can be taken as “us versus you” mentality: YOUR disorder is not like MY disorder.

          • Propane, please excuse me for jumping into this very sensitive conversation and even though I have not read every post, I can hear the pain in your voice.

            I am only jumping in with my personal experience as a way to share a tidbit of my own pain. What I sense is that you believe that God needs to remove the temptation in order for you to feel cured of SSA. Am I correct in that?

            As a woman who was married for 20 years and then abandoned when my husband left for another woman, I can relate to that inner desire to feel wanted and needed by another human. There is a real yearning within us to be yoked with another in an intimate and trusting relationship.

            Yet, what do we do when we find ourselves in a situation we didn’t choose and certainly don’t “enjoy”? I had been sexually active after my divorce, but my own personal relationship with God grew and I became convicted that this was not what God wanted. I had to make a choice.

            I chose to follow God. I begged God to remove the desire for sexual intimacy, but He instead called me to a deeper union with Him. The temptation never ceased, but I learned to avoid those areas where temptation was the greatest and cling more steadfastly to Him. Daily Mass became my habit, not because of any desire to be seen as “holy,” but because of a deeper desire to drown myself in the Graces that He provides through the Eucharist. I knew that without His Grace I would falter, and fail.

            That was over 25 years ago. Temptation still rises up. But I have learned that Satan knows our weaknesses far better than we do and we always have a choice. By His Grace, I have learned that He is my Spouse. He is my Provider. And, above all, He is my Savior.

            Cling to Him, Propane. He may not remove the temptation, but He will provide His Graces in abundance so that you can feel Him through the fog.

          • Thank you GrannyAtlanta for sharing that deeply personal story (online, no less). Lord have mercy on us all

            I think when discussing SSA, there’s a lot that gets lost in people having different definition of “treatment”, “cure”, “homosexuality”. Does it mean having just the orientation or actively living the sinful lifestyle? Does treatment mean living celibately or actually having the thoughts/temptations removed.

            In the discussion above, there was implicit expectation that one must *treat* SSA. That assumes there even *is* treatment to get the attraction removed. But maybe what they meant by treatment is prayer and grace to live chastely.

            Even in 2017, people believe those with SSA can have this removed by treatment. They wrongly assume that there even is a treatment. Maybe maladaptive, sinful behavior can be discouraged and stopped, but the SSA remains.

            The Church does not teach that one must seek treatment.

            The Church does not advocate for treatment for the express purpose of *removing* SSA, and to assume otherwise is placing an undue burden on those who are already psychologically damaged and burdened. It is perfect opportunity for the enemy to exploit with despair, despondence, and hatred.

          • I’m sorry that you are so prickly that you take meaning so literally. I was saying that going to daily Mass is a great help – for any temptation to sin.

            There needs to be some straight talk here (and I see there has been much of it that you don’t care to read). Any sexual activity outside marriage is sinful. Been there, done that, so I KNOW. We all understand you. We all have sometimes terrible temptations to do what we want to do, but can’t because God Himself in His love tells us we can’t. All of life is a struggle against something!

            There are helps. It does no good to keep going on and on about how hard it is. There are worse things than sexual temptation.

            There are thousands and thousands of perfectly healthy young men, virile and strong who really, really like girls – yet they are called to the priesthood and they answer that call. It is harder for you to be chaste than it is for them?

            God will help you. That’s all we can say to you. Give yourself to Him and live moment by moment – you are expected to give up a small part of your life – not all of it.

          • I adhere to Church teachings in this matter, so I don’t know why you think “there has been much of it that you don’t care to read”.

            The issue I had was:

            Someone said those with SSA need to get treatment. That is an ambiguous statement because what is meant by treatment? Living celibately? Getting psychological counseling to turn straight? Getting married? “Need” to get treatment to not be in perverse revolt against God? Does a SSA living celibately have to seek out psychological counseling to be a faithful Catholic?

            Questions with no clarifications.

            Had I known this simple question would snowball into this mess, I NEVER would have stepped foot on this thread.

          • Please answer me this, and I entreat you out of charity: why do you automatically assume I’m promoting a sinful lifestyle?

            There’s nothing I wrote to indicate such.

            But why are people (not you only) telling me I must live chastely as if I’m opposed to that idea in the first place?

            I already know celibacy is the only option. That’s a given.

            I’m genuinely, sincerely curious. Is it an instinctive response? Did I say the Church teaching on sexual morality is wrong or outdated somehow?

          • To say that there is no treatment for SSA is a questionable statement. The point is though that whilst someone may have SSA that in itself is not sinful. What is sinful is willing to commit sexual acts outside of marriage. Heterosexual people have temptations to fornication or adultery. Likewise that is not sinful in itself. What is sinful is willing the acts of fornication and adultery.

          • Treatment implies turning straight — no more SSA. Reducing the tempting thoughts, or resisting the temptation, is not really “treatment” in the common understanding of the word.

            Pain relievers might alleviate pain, but they don’t “cure” the cause of the pain.

          • I was not saying that resisting the temptation can be classed as ‘treatment’. SSA attraction on the other hand may be a psychological thing which may be alterable by treatment.

          • Treatment of many conditions does not mean eradicating the underlying cause; but mitigating the effects. There are a whole host of skin conditions (psoriasis, in particular) where the cause difficult to discern and the treatment involves suppressing the symptoms and avoiding “triggers” to flair ups.

          • Thank you. I wish SOMEONE would have clarified this in relation to SSA. Or at least what they intended to mean.

            Attraction, inclination, behavior, and will are significant criteria when objectively judging a condition, disorder, or sin. Definitions matter.

          • “No one with SSA decides they want SSA.”

            People do not will to have a great many things. We do not excuse theft or make it legitimate means of acquisition and subsequent possession because some people have kleptomania.

          • The wording above seemed to imply that having just the attraction is willful and revolt against God. I was just looking for clarification as to whether that’s what he meant or not.

            I don’t understand the purpose of your reply. No one was implying temptation to steal is itself a sin, but there was implication that homosexual inclination itself (NOT just behavior) is willful sin against God. Apples and oranges.

      • You read Cardinal Brandmueller’s assessment on homosexuality and “perverse revolt” which it is. I’m not declaring you have a predilection for the same sex that you are aware of as a choice. That’s why I recommend psychological study of your predilection. As Catholics we firmly believe that God thru His Word created Mankind and the universe in accord to an order. Ordained by Him as reflective of His Eternal Law. That’s why Brandmueller correctly calls the current dramatic upsurge in deviation from the natural order a perverse rebellion. It’s against God and speaks to independence from God and worship of one’s own’s own conscience. A form of idolatry typified by Lucifer’s rebellion against the Supreme Divine Majesty. As Lucifer paid homage to his own prideful vision of himself as equal to God based on what he alleges was natural. Anything that repudiates the supremacy of God the Author of Life and goodness is perverse. Again turn to Christ with faith and desist from attempting to justify same sex attraction. The human intellect is quite capable of distorting realty.

        Reply
        • When did I try to justify same-sex attraction? Did I advocate for the Church to allow sinful behavior? I have always been faithful to the Church teachings on this matter.

          I recognize that SSA exists and not actively willed. We are to practice celibacy, as the cause is not important. None of that goes against Church teaching.

          Behavior is willed. Attraction is not.

          Reply
          • Actually it’s the opposite. Attraction is part of willing if it is an inclination, An appetite [a scholastic term denoting natural desire or attraction] is by nature good, and ordered to a good end. It’s only when we subvert a natural desire or attraction toward an inappropriate end such as expressing sexual desire with a minor. This unfortunate deviate desire has become more frequent as has the deviation of natural sexual desire. It is an aberrant act of the will. Your “natural attraction” toward same sex is most often a prolonged practice of deviating a natural attraction. Sexual desire has multiple forms of deviation from a due end. Masturbation, sex with minors, sex with same sex persons.

          • Fr Peter Morello says: “Your “natural attraction” toward same sex is most often a prolonged practice of deviating a natural attraction”.

            You are far more biting, scathing and RIGHT in your grace and eloquence than I will ever be in my clubfistedness.

            I have many times told my precious kids and precious wife when they are really mad at me “Just imagine what a bast__d I’d be if I didn’t spend all that time at Mass and with my head in the Bible”! I have a LONG way to go!!

            I’d be a piece of {insert Anglo-Saxon term} here.

            That is a true story.

            This Gas Burner fellow is well on his way to sainthood if he simply applies what he is learning here from you.

            Me, too.

          • Good example Rod. We need to be with Christ daily, otherwise our tendency because of our fallen nature our faults become habitual.

          • Actively engaging the mind for lustful purposes takes will and is a sin. Involuntary attraction (not sexual attraction – which we have defined for now as active lustful thoughts) does not take active will. Someone can be attracted by the beauty of the same or opposite gender without sexual component.

            I have a feeling due to the nature of the internet and the fact that there are ambiguously defined terms with moral consequences, furthering this discussion would be pointless and just go around in circles.

            I will just stick to the official Church teaching: celibacy, and that there is no sin unless one actively wills and participates in mental or physical acts contrary to moral law.

            Good day, Father. Hope you are away from the blizzard.

          • “I will just stick to the official Church teaching: celibacy, and that there is no sin unless one actively wills and participates in mental or physical acts contrary to moral law.”

            There you go.

            Taken a while, but sounds like now you are getting it.

            {……and keep at it…you never know…you might take a shine to a girl some day and then watch out for real trouble!!!}

          • Your comments indicate sincerity in questioning and search for a solution, which Granny from Atlanta touched upon. Perhaps a woman’s intuitive ability and sensitivity that most men lack. You showed kindness and commitment to Christ opting for a celibate life. Be assured God will bless you abundantly. For if we show concern for others during our pain retaining faith in Christ we are doing all that God asks of us. The Apostle John in similar reference said Be confident in Christ’s peace no matter what our conscience may charge us with. Because God is greater than our hearts (1 Jn 3, 21).

          • Thank you Father for your words here.

            We are not only what we ” do”, but what we think and desire.
            And if one sees him or herself with this type of disordered attraction, and is only concerned with celibacy, is that truly what God wants for us? It is as if I had a horrible desire to mutilate animals, but did not, yet remained with that desire……should I be content? Of couse not.

            “Attraction is part of willing if it is an inclination.” Wise words spoken out of charity.

            So many do not want to hear this necessary truth. Again, many thanks.

    • Outstanding, Father Morello! A powerful statement against the perversion that has dominated the secular culture and the hierarchy of the Catholic Church. If that is, indeed, a sign of the end times, bring it on. I’ve had enough of it.

      Reply
  3. This article is a bit of a nothingburger. Francis is not going to answer the dubia……..ev-ah! That’s perfectly clear, now.

    We’ve moved on and are now at the stage of waiting for the correction (and waiting…..and waiting…..) and attempting to understand what might happen after it is issued and Francis ignores it (as he will).

    Reply
    • Please try not to be so negative! This is a new year. 2018 might very well bring the turn. Who knows? We know God will turn it around at some point. And whom He finally chooses to use as His instrument is yet to be seen. I find the fact that two Italian Archbishops have signed the Schneider document highly encouraging. Each of us hopefully plays his or her own little role in God’s plan of salvation.

      Reply
      • So good to see your articles here Maike. Please know I continue to pray for your husband, you and the family.
        I never knew your husband was involved at that little gem of school in Front Royal, Va. Our family had the pleasure to visit with one of our children. Wouldn’t it be wonderful to live on that very campus? Wouldn’t it be wonderful if the whole world was Christendom? Well, for now, Christendom reigns in our hearts and Heaven on earth is found at Mass. May the Lord watch over Mr. Hickson and each day, bring him renewed strength.
        Prayers continue.

        Thought: I was wondering today, out of the blue, why did our Lord wait so long to reveal Himself?
        Perhaps, He was waiting for everything to be in place, from His chosen apostles, His Mother’s preparation
        for His Agony, for hearts and minds to be ready?! Our Lord is preparing something, I do not know what
        exactly, but He is. And so here we are…….waiting, perhaps each of us being pruned to withstand
        and stay firm. ‘Things’ must be set in order, as our Lord has planned from the beginning.

        Thank you for all you have contributed here at OnePeterFive. BTW……I listened to an audio of Dr. Hickson’s, shared
        by a poster here. Remarkable, truly remarkable.

        Reply
        • cs, I echo your sentiments to Maike about her husband. I’ve continued to pray and hope he is once again home with his family. Any updates would be GREATLY appreciated, Maike!

          cs, as with you, I feel convinced that God is waiting in order to strengthen all of us in our own Faith. An easy Faith is one where things always go pretty much as you’ve planned. Only through trials is a true, deep and abiding Faith formed. God is taking each one of us through our own personal course in Redemption. He is asking each one of us to sharpen our skills and dig deep, pressing into Him as never before.

          In this way, we can be ready to lead others when things get even worse. Mary has predicted that things WILL get worse. We can see the evolution of events before our very eyes. So quickly at times as to take our breath away. God is preparing us and we best be about the business of shoring up our Faith, lamps lit, for when we will be asked to gather others and lead them safely to Him.

          Reply
          • Well GrannyAtlanta, I am no saint on patience regarding this moment in our Church History.
            But, I am working on it or shall I say, God is working on me?
            And yet, this will sound wishy washy, but I believe it is vital and necessary for the laity to speak up, not stay silent and urge our good and healthy prelates onward to not be silent as well.

            What is God’s will and how does a holy cardinal or for that matter, a Catholic layperson know how and when our Lord wants us to respond: Truth and Peace. We know the Truth, but each cardinal must be at peace, only the Peace our Lord can give, with the decision to move forward in the correction.
            It is with the peace of Christ that will hold them and us steady, never conceding in what is not True, not of God.
            I believe Father Thomas Weinandy was given the grace to speak the Truth and found great peace, regardless of any consequences.

            The Formal Correction is necessary. For without it, there is no Truth nor Peace. How can the Church continue to live a lie and allow one deception after the other. Maybe I am simplistic here, but
            one must always respond in the Truth. And yet, God waits patiently. But, I do believe His waiting may be
            more as a result of the unresponsiveness of the hierarchy. Our free will is permitted by His permissive will.
            I pray that this lengthy lapse in issuing the Formal Correction is more of God’s business and not that of cardinals who are not responding to God’s grace to move ahead.

          • cs, we are all a work in progress and Lord knows I’ve still got a ways to go. I believe God is using people and those He has been using have not left Him or abandoned their posts. They’re just awaiting further instruction.

            One thing which makes me wonder about any perceived “delay” is the reality of what a Formal Correction would lead to. There’s been no shortage of ink debating the strong possibility of a true schism.

            At this point in time — I believe — there are so few lay people who have been following any of this. We are pretty much a rare breed and I would guess that probably no more than 25% of the Catholic population are even aware of AL, never mind the fallout due to it. Most think it’s wonderful. A breath of fresh air.

            Too many people believe Pope Francis is wonderful and have no clue that he is taking us is into heresy. Many believe it’s high time the Church threw off her old baggage and moved into the era of Enlightenment.

            (I actually was invited to a New Year’s pot-luck dinner with some friends and it was held at a woman’s house who I’d not met before. She teaches in a Catholic high school — Latin, no less. She had PF statues, refrigerator magnets and a huge book on her coffee table which showed off her admiration for him. Luckily, the conversation never veered towards PF as I fear it might have ended up being a very ugly night! I dipped my toe in the water by asking if anyone had seen photos of the Vatican Nativity scene and got blank stares. I decided to back away slowly….)

            Under those conditions, a schism would very well put the Church into a cataclysmic spin which would render the Remnant very, very small indeed. (Didn’t even Pope Benedict mention the fact that there would be a much smaller Remnant Church?) While we talk Schism as though it would be a good thing, very few of us are ready for the emotional, financial and even physical fallout such an event would bring.

            We…..you and me….need to gird our loins and prepare for such an event. We need to be able to shine a Light for those who will be devastated and won’t know where to turn. Because we see the storm clouds brewing, we need to prepare our hearts and our souls to be strong and at peace so that we can help bring others to a true understanding of what the Catholic Church has always stood for and be able to help rebuild from the ground up.

            I believe that God is giving all of us time to prepare, as what’s ahead is not going to be easy or pretty. WE will need to be the ones to help pick up the pieces.

          • Thank you for your thoughtful response.
            The suffering we shall have to endure should a formal correction take place, along with the after math which is unknown. however, will not be compared to the suffering so many will endure for eternity as they continue to live their lives believing in their ” personal conscience” as a guide.

            The Church has a responsibility to defend the faith, that is all I know.
            Bergoglio is not to be reckon with easily. He is strong and willful, very much a thug like his earlier days as a bouncer. Personally, I doubt very much your Catholic school teacher you write of is ” in the dark” about him.
            We have all seen his photo ops embracing homosexual couple during his tour in USa.
            We have all heard his words, ” Who I am to judge?”
            Catholics know and revel in Bergoglio’s revolution to fixed in stone now. Few are truly ignorant.

            Who do I pity? The children, the youth, the young families who are striving to be faithful, the faithful priests who
            are under such a regine as this. We cannot fear the consequences of the Truth.

          • cs, I am an old lady at this point and have 10 grandchildren who need to know what is coming down the road. We are living in the times predicted in the Bible and need to be ready to become outcasts.

            (2 Timothy 4:2-5) “..preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths. But you, be sober in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.”

          • Dear Granny, I can assure you that here in France we are already outcasts by following the proven method of being or living our lives as Catholics. Mass, Prayer, confession and adoration.

          • I bet, Christopher! I can distinctly remember visiting Rome in the Jubilee year and being crestfallen at the very few people who attended Mass there. Only a small handful and not one was younger than retirement age.

            What I am talking about, though, is more direct. A complete rejection of the Sacraments as outdated and foolish. I can see a time when the belief in the Real Presence will be universally dismissed as nonsense. Where the tabernacles will be completely gone.

            Because of the simultaneous (and I believe diabolical) undermining of all things moral in our world, there will be a time when any attempt to worship God in a truly Catholic way will be outlawed. Outright outlawed. To practice our faith will mean we’d have to meet secretly.

            That’s just my opinion. I hope that the Lord doesn’t allow this, but the signs are surely pointing in that direction.

          • Dear Granny, We were fortunate to have one of the tabernacles placed back in the centre of one of our churches here, but we have three churches and one of them still has the tabernacle on the left (which is very French) The reason provided for not moving the final tabernacle is that it’s too big and the locals would kick up a fuss. Going back to your previous observation about the faith, yes you are correct. Here in our parish confession is offered 3 times per week but the confessionals remain empty, however the lines for communion are full! It’s a sad state of affairs.

          • “….no more than 25% of the Catholic population are even aware of AL ……”. Methinks thou dost flatter them! 25% is wildly optimistic.

          • Most of the Catholic population very well understands this pontificate and his agenda.
            They may not know the name of which it is promoted, such as AL.

            The Church cannot be held hostage much longer, for those who are ignorant, for I truly doubt they are.
            I have seen and heard too much, to believe otherwise.

          • “Most of the Catholic population very well understands this pontificate and his agenda.”

            I think you are dead wrong on this. Most of the Catholic population has grown up with the understanding that the Pope is always right — guided by the Holy Spirit and therefore “infallible.” We’ve seen enough discussions here and elsewhere on the true nature of “infallibility” but most Catholics are busy raising their families and have no clue what is going on. They just hear all the good things about this pontificate and how Francis is concerned for the poor and downtrodden and swallow it hook, line and sinker. The mainstream media and even some sound Catholic news services have done their absolute best to present Francis in a positive light — even when his own words distort the truth.

            I believe this is all due to the same thing — we have been conditioned to believe the Pope is grounded in the Holy Spirit and whatever he utters therefore lines up with the Church’s teachings. I was raised in the Church when a common phrase was “Pray, pay and OBEY!” There was no such thing as questioning the Pope. To do so was considered flirting with apostasy.

            That phrase was presuppositioned on the belief that the Pope WAS following the teachings of the Church. Now that we have a Pope who is hell-bent on changing Doctrine through footnotes and in quick sound bites to reporters on plane rides, we are in a different boat. It’s extremely difficult to get people who have always been trained to follow the Pope to NOT follow the Pope.

            No. I don’t believe that the majority of Catholics have even a clue what is going on behind the scenes in the Church. They are blindly following the Pope…..just as they were taught to do by their own parents and grandparents.

          • Seriously? I have heard it from the mouths of ” nuns” of their hatred for Pope Benedict XVl.
            Follow the Pope you say? Right. How many went against Pope Paul Vl regarding contraception.
            Where was that, ” sense of following ” the pope there?

            Perhaps a few do subscribe to papal idolatry, but the vast majority of Catholics today, in the pews, basically
            ” want what they want” , and no one seems to be telling them any different.

            Maybe most Catholics do not understand all that is going on in the Church, but oh do they love
            the ” freedom” this pope not only imparts but justifies. If Pope Benedict XVi had been able to
            rule in his pontificate as he wanted……he would have been the most hated pope of the century.

            Catholics do not truly love their popes……they use them…..they love THEMSELVES.

          • cs, you are painting with a very wide brush here. I, too, know of many who cling to VII as their permission slip to choose to “follow their conscience” in all things catholic. I long ago learned that trying to reason with them was futile and, luckily, they tend to swarm certain parishes which have priests that cater to their whims. Many of us have learned where THEY are and move over to parishes where the priests have a holy reverence for the Mass and expect the same from their congregation.

            No, I’m talking about Catholics who follow the teachings of the Church. Typically they have large families, they attend Mass at least once a week, go to confession monthly as well as adoration regularly. They were brought up in the Church and never left.

            They aren’t tied in to the newest scandal in the Vatican. They’re pretty much oblivious to it because, outside of the few places like 1P5, there is no discussion of it. As a matter of fact, many CATHOLIC venues openly declare that the Pope has been misquoted and is misunderstood and hasn’t done anything wrong. He is just EMPHASIZING the Church’s perennial teachings in a more “compassionate” way. That’s what they’ve been told and that’s what they believe. I honestly have heard people — good Catholic people — try to distinguish Francis from Benedict and JPII by saying that JPII brought us “Faith,” Benedict brought us “Hope” and now Francis is bringing us full circle with “Charity.”

            They don’t have the time (or patience) to delve into the innuendo and peel back the layers of double-speak. THEY are the ones I fear for. They BELIEVE they are following the Church’s teachings and the Pope CAN’T make a mistake. That’s what they’ve been taught and they have plenty of sources which continue to push that its just us fringe folk who are causing all the trouble here.

            When the roof comes crashing down on them, THEY are the ones who will be looking for guidance. They are the ones we need to be taking by the hand and leading to the Light. They’ve been following what they have been taught to believe — the Pope can’t be in error and he ISN’T in error.

          • I hear you Granny. You are referring to those who are faithful to the Church, and devoted to their families, not having time to notice the comings and goings of all we know and read about. They just assume all is fine and that Francis is just another pope that represents Christ on earth, etc.
            You are so right! I see what you are saying here.

            I know a good few of these who are devout Catholics, full of charity and love for Christ and the teachings of the Church. They have an ” inkling” of the chaos Francis is causing, but not to the extent of what we
            know and see coming. And when the wall comes crashing down and the realization of this pope’s agenda may cause them anger, despair, a sense of betrayal. Yes, we shall have to be strong enough to provide
            perseverance not just for ourselves, but for them…..to stay in the Church, to keep the faith.

            Thank you GrannyAtlanta. Your grandchildren are blessed to have you, btw.

          • Yes! Yes! Yes! Thank you! THESE are the people we need to be praying for and preparing to pick up off the ground when they collapse in despair! They are good people with good hearts who just can’t see what we see, and even if they see a shadow on the horizon, they can’t quite seem to put their finger on what it means.

            AND, my own children and grandchildren fall squarely into that camp! One is even involved in Church ministry and rolls his eyes at me. I trust God, though.

          • C.I.N.O, do not truly love their popes……they use them…..they love THEMSELVES.

            Slight correction, I hope it is taken well. It is meant both well and honestly.

            For the record, I am old fashioned. But not a Traditionalist. Born in 1954, I was too young to remember Pius XII, or, honestly John XXIII. Was clueless until years later about Paul VI. Loved JPII, initially but my life radically changed with an unwanted, opposed divorce.
            Now I do not like any of the Popes since Pius XII. Seen way too much corruption throughout the hierarchy and the clergy…. Were it not for my mother and the Ursulines who taught me….I would be nothing, likely an Atheist.

            I am one of the few who has defended our marriage twice, successfully both times. So, there are a few clerics I respect, to some extent. But very, very few.

          • Thanks for the correction.

            You would find a few priests up here where we attend church. who would be very humbled by your faithfulness.
            They are wonderful and humble priests, who offer the TLM.

            Were it not for many, many people in my life, I don’t know what would have become of me.

          • I can only assume that you are fortunate to know a rather different Catholic population to the one I know. But you are certainly correct in that inevitably more and more ordinary Catholics will get the message that “something’s rotten in the state of the Vatican.” It is floating in the atmosphere, and they must surely begin to inhale it soon.

          • This talk of schism cam be misleading. What will actually happen is that those who are already in revolt against the Catholic Faith (which are many so-called Catholics these days) will be formalized in their heresy/schism/apostasy when Francis leads them into the abyss.

          • I see that as a grand wish and far from the reality that seems to be presenting itself. It is not as though a formal schism will bring to light the real culprits. The reality is that the Pope himself — the one who everyone is supposed to follow, and most do….blindly — is the one who is tickling the heartstrings of the people with heresy. What he says sounds Oh so lovely and compassionate. But that is exactly how Satan works.

            Those of us who are on the fringe — so to speak — who see the real danger and call it out loudly, will be rejected as the heretics. We are the ones who will be forced to go underground and practice our Faith in small communities. The parishes will be closed to us as we will be considered malcontents who are trying to cause trouble.

            I see Bergolio as pushing our beloved Church into the very abyss which was foretold — a One World Church.

            It is for this reason that I believe the Lord is waiting. Waiting for more people to wake up and see the Truth of what is happening. I have no doubt that the Lord has a Plan to save as many of His Sheep as possible.

            And I trust Him to bring it about in His timing. My job is to lean into HIM and no others. To learn how to LISTEN to Him as best I can by not telling HIm what I think He should do, but asking Him what He wants ME to do. Every day. Every blessed day!

            We will be victorious in the heavenly realm, but will be vilified in the earthly one. Buckle up. Train as many as you can to hunker down and learn how to hear God in the midst of the ravenous wolves. It’s gonna be a bumpy ride.

          • We are the remnant, Granny and your action plan should be Priority One for us; what will we do? Where will we worship? Who will we follow? The clock is ticking.

          • winslow, we must always remember that the “who” we are to follow is God, not man. Man will always let us down, but God is faithful. I bid you adieu as this will be my last afternoon visiting 1P5.

      • This simple admonition to trust and adopt a more positive disposition is as heartening as any of your far more comprehensive contributions.
        God reward you.

        Reply
      • Oh, c’mon, Maike.

        Seriously, here we have a Cardinal saying some Catholic things.

        Earthshaking!!

        What is more noteworthy is that this Cardinal promised to do something that he hasn’t done yet.

        I’d say folks have been pretty patient hanging on his every word, waiting for him to do what he promised to do. Or need we parse his words or Burke’s and do a revision of the “promise to correct” in good prelate fashion?

        And now the grave approaches him at what may very well be faster than the speed of sound. Just like it did for his two other deceased compatriots who hit the dirt before the words could hit the press.

        IMO, publicly {for we do not know what has been done in private}, the 3 Kazakh Bishops have left this poor old fellow and his friend Burke in the dust.

        They have issued a very clear statement which in no uncertain terms describes the Pope’s positions as “alien” to the faith and more, they go on to chide and condemn priests who support those heretical positions.

        It’s about time. Hopefully it is just a start.

        Maybe it will encourage this guy to get with it.

        I admit, I am a convert, but now I understand why so many cradle Catholics are utterly exhausted with the soft-handed effeminacy and gutlessness of the Catholic prelature.

        Reply
    • Dear Kiwi,

      Saint Padre Pio would say that discouragement is a sin however, we are human and our humanity is naturually impatient.

      In my view it was neccessary for AL to rear it’s ugly head in order to bring out into the open the practises that have happened in our faith for a good 30 years within the western world.

      Now that it’s out in the open the push back is mainstream and the truth will prevail, the only issue is how long do we have to wait for the truths to be restored.

      Reply
    • I don’t think there was any prophecy in that statement. I think he was just expressing hatred for the papacy, and the particular pope at his time (Leo X). That’s my view, anyway. If he was trying to prophesy then I think he would have clearly said “One day in the future….” or something like that.

      Reply
  4. This morn I read this Irish Times editorial by Patsy McGarry. It never would’ve been published 50 or even 10years ago.
    Zealots on both sides prepare for battle over Eighth Amendment
    Anti-abortion and pro-choice activists will create a bear pit ahead of referendum by P. McGarry

    “All abhor abortion, but only the Catholic Church is as absolute in its opposition. That too is deserving of respect and understanding. It would be intolerable to expect someone who sincerely believes a human person is present from conception to agree with abortion at any time.
    This may require a stretch of empathetic imagination on the part of those who do not hold such a belief, but it is proper that it be attempted. It applies otherwise, also. Such imagination should be extended to those who have genuine difficulty in accepting that a human person exists from conception or for much of a pregnancy.
    Both sets of believers should be open to the friendly arguments of the other in an attempt to understand the opposite view, and without wanting to just beat it down.
    Irreconcilable differences
    Where differences are irreconcilable they should be accepted with the holders moving on, each respecting the integrity of the other. Because it is possible for both positions to be held with integrity, whatever the furious may claim.
    People of faith, who can be either anti-abortion or pro-choice, should leave the outcome to the electorate and the mercy of God. Non-believers should accept that honestly-held differences may be irreconcilable and leave the outcome to the electorate.
    As Archbishop Jackson put it in his Christmas Day sermon: “In all things, it is important in a democracy that respectful discourse continue to be developed and enriched; it takes all parties to do this intentionally in a world of increasingly self-generated communications.”
    It was important, he said, “that individuals be furnished with sufficient objective information to make decisions and that, while lobbyists inevitably will seek to influence the thought pattern of voters, the voters themselves create and sustain the freedom to decide without undue influence.”
    Amid all the unpleasant hue and cry over coming months let us not forget that it is in the silence of the polling booth voters will decide. So be it.”
    Patsy McGarry is Religious Affairs Correspondent for Irish Times
    ================================================
    I’m reading another editorial in the Irish Times.
    2/3 of Ireland’s Catholics don’t believe in the real Presence
    of Christ in Holy Communion. Just over a quarter believe it is transformed (26 per cent).
    Who’s responsible for this ? Bishop Diarmuid Martin and Pope Francis. Period.
    ‘Why did the atheist go to Mass?
    Apologising, thinking, shaking a stranger’s hand. Good things happen in church’ written by Times writer Joe Humphreys opened my eyes.
    .
    The Holy Father better start addressing this non belief in the Real Presence and he better speak up for the unborn. NOW.
    When it comes to the church’s teachings, many Catholics do not subscribe to key tenets such as transubstantiation. Almost two-thirds (62 per cent) believe the blessing of bread and wine during Mass only represents the body and blood of Christ. Vatican ll has done real damage to Eire’s faith in God. There is more to the upcoming World Mtg. of Families and Synod for Youth than we think. Is this Amoris Laetitia and ‘GAY MARRIAGE’ thing going to be promoted at WORLD YOUTH DAY as well?

    Reply
    • Archbishop Carlo Vigano, the former papal nuncio to the United States, and Archbishop Emeritus Luigi Negri – added their signatures, according to the website Corrispodenza Romana have joined the three Kazakhstan bishops – Tomash Peta, Archbishop of Saint Mary in Astana, Jan Pawel Lenga, Archbishop-Bishop of Karaganda, and Athanasius Schneider, Auxiliary Bishop of Saint Mary in Astana –in reaffirming the Church’s traditional teaching on Communion for the divorced and remarried.

      Reply
    • Thanks for this informative update. I’ve visited Ireland several times for several weeks at at time. One doesn’t have to be there long to sense the evaporation of the Faith. It is no longer what it was when my ancestors left the place in the 19th century. They instilled a ferric religious belief in their progeny that resisted both soft and hard persecution for two generations.

      Reply
    • People of faith, who can be either anti-abortion or pro-choice, should leave the outcome to the electorate and the mercy of God. ?? How can one be a person of faith and pro-abortion? ?

      Reply
    • The McGarry article is pure poison. It’s just that kind of treacley reasoning that destroys the faith of believers not too strong in their faith and not well educated. It’s no wonder the Irish have lost their faith.

      Reply
  5. I think the so called “good guys” are really the problem. What do I mean? Conservatives and traditionalists in the Church both laity and clerics by acting as if the Vatican II revolution and anything related to it has any legitimacy at all props up the revolution and prolongs the crisis. The Vatican II revolution is a 100% fraud. That fraud is now out in the open dancing around like Mick Jagger. Conservatives and traditionalists are debating about the accessories of the revolution. The revolution can not be baptized. Well intended Cardinals like Burke and Brandmüller are part of the problem. Why? They think the revolution can be baptized. These men want to return to the good old days of Mother Angelicaism and St John Paul the greatism. What do I mean? Under Mother Angelicaism all one had to do was believe in the Eucharist and be pro family and pro life. All Cardinals like Burke and Brandmüller want is a return to that phase of the revolution with the Latin Mass sprinkled on top. Men like Bishop Athanasius Schneider think the revolution can be clarified it can not. The declaration of Archbishop Lefebvre in 1974 was and is the only way to deal with the crisis. The revolution can not be baptized.

    Reply
    • What is worse a formal schism, or the loss of uncountable souls in this intentional confusion(at best) or this outright rejection of the Gospel/teaching of Jesus(quite likely)?

      My answer, it is time for a formal schism.

      Reply
      • A formal schism is worse. Not only will a formal schism will lose a lot more souls in the long run, it is also a grave offense against almighty God.

        Reply
        • And Jorge Bergoglio isn’t a grave offense against almighty God?

          I doubt the consequence of a formal schism will lose more souls. But, that is my guess.

          I stick with the formal schism. ASAP.

          Reply
          • Just so. Those seeking a formal schism remind me of Lord Halifax (see The Darkest Hour if you’re unfamiliar with the man) in 1940 England. Not content with 10 years and more of bad defense policies and several instances of abject groveling before the Austrian under Chamberlain, Halifax was eager to submit to Hitler’s terms in a “peace settlement” crafted under the guidance of Mussolini! Both today’s formal schism fans and England’s negotiated peace crowd give fresh meaning to the phrase about jumping from the frying pan into the fire.

          • I won’t leave but at this point I sure wouldn’t whine much if the heretics decided to go set up another so-called “True Church” someplace else along with all the other so-called “True Churches”.

            The mission & message of the actual Church would be one whale of a lot better for it.

            Says I. Possibly worth just exactly what you paid for it.

          • But the heretics will take countless uncatechised Catholics with them who would not otherwise die outside the Church.
            If only the heretics would just themselves leave, well that won’t happen. They hate the Faith after all.

          • Don’t try to play God here. The heretics have already left. Have you followed them? Do you think Rod has?

            The heretics are ‘The Bergoglio Catholic Church’ and once everyone recognizes and accepts that — and starts calling it that — things will become clearer.

          • No, Rod, it’s exactly what I envision. If there is a schism I would encourage the SSPX to pick up the baton and run with it. I’d follow them in a heartbeat.

          • That makes no sense. I schism implies a true Church and Bergoglio’s gang. Your choice who to follow will decide whether you die outside the Church.

        • As far as I’m concerned, a schism has become virtually inevitable.
          Francis won’t recant from his nonsense… The Cardinals are not willing to make him step down…
          It’s a near (?) apocalyptic scenario… The tale of the dragon is already snatching a great portion of the faithfuls to their doom… :'(

          Reply
        • I think the failure to press the issue is far more offensive to God than the current cowardice infecting our Cardinals and bishops. The Church is already in schism. Anyone who can’t see that has his eyes tight shut.

          Reply
    • The issue is complicated.

      The Church {until now} has been willing to suffer great loss in the defense of truth. Witness the loss of the Protestant regions which could have been potentially “saved” if the Pope had acquiesced to some of their demands. It is an interesting thought as to which and how many would have been necessary to appease the Protestants. But the Church did not. Indeed, in the case of Henry VIII possibly all that would have been needed was an annulment, something we have now seen become routine!

      But today the problem is different.

      Whereas then, the Pope was the one holding the faith, today, the Pope is the one motioning for its demolition.

      I suspect that the Dubia Cardinals fear their correction might initiate a movement of “Traditionalists” to set up an alternative Church, leaving the buildings and the Vatican behind, since all of that is pretty firmly in the control of the Pope and his heretical allies.

      So they wait.

      Admittedly, this course of action is repulsive, disgusting even, as it is the method the effeminate leadership has used for decades. Who came out and resisted Peter to his face when Peter started to foster religious indifferentism in the Church? Lefebvre? And look what happened to him.

      In many ways, the Burkes and the Brandmuellers have only themselves to thank for the mess the Church is in, for they have NOT stood against the constant drift of the leadership toward communism, religious indifferentism and Freemasonry we have seen occur for many years.

      Sadly, I believe it is very possible that Pope St John Paul II just MIGHT have responded favorably to a concerted effort by bishops to “correct” him on the issue of other religions, but now? Now we have a monster who has witnessed the rank and pathetic indifference and weakness of Catholic bishops and knows them so intimately that he knows just how ineffective and effeminate they are, how unmanly, how gutless, how queer so many are.

      And so he pushes them.

      I believe Burke’s and Brandmuellers refusal to correct if that is the choice they have made indicates their membership in the faction of effeminates. To have actually followed through with their promise would be to have broken free of that stinking noose. They may still yet, but in the meantime, actual men, men who are admittedly extremely few, but men just the same, men of God like Schneider and Lenga and Pavel will do the heavy lifting that is the actual job of the Cardinals.

      Burke and Brandmueller are selling God short in my opinion. They are living in a secular desert of disbelief. To “settle for the lesser evil” is to spit in the face of every Catholic man who in the secular world must make hard moral and ethical decisions in his work and family lives. They have given up their leadership.

      The Catholic Church is chock full of Eli’s, leaders who do not discipline their inferiors. We have seen it for many decades now and the rot has come to full fruit.

      Burke, Muller, Brandmueller, get out of the way. Let men of God stand up and speak. Have the common decencty as men if you can even muster that, and admit you are pathetic, weak, effeminacte and point to those like the real men of the peripheries who can lead the Church thru the desert.

      Go back to Egypt, Burke. Go back to Egypt, Brandmueller.

      you have done far worse in making a promise you will not keep than if you had made none at all. you ought to hang your heads in wretched shame, wear burlap over your fancy vestments.

      Or better yet, trust God, do your jobs and follow through with your promise.

      And don;’ think it ends there. Getting to the border of the Promised Land is only the start. The War to clear out Canaan only begins once the Jordan is crossed.

      Lead, follow, or get out of the way.

      But don’t stand there making promises you can’t keep.

      Reply
      • Gee, Rod. Why not say what you think?

        It’s about time someone took the gloves off. This message of yours tells me I have acted on too much respect for the weaklings you chastise. I will repent.

        You said, “I believe it is very possible that Pope St John Paul II just MIGHT have responded favorably to a concerted effort by bishops to “correct” him on the issue of other religions.”

        A very sage observation. I never thought of it, but I’m sure you’re right. His self-flogging now appears to be a symptom of a recognition of his failure to uphold the Faith.

        Reply
  6. Borderline sacrilegious discipline regarding Communion is nothing new. Where were you guys in 1983 when John Paul II authorized schismatics and heretics to receive the Sacraments (without converting) in the Code of Canon Law?

    If anything what Francis is doing is less sacrilegious – at least the “divorced and remarried” in question are Catholics and inside the Church.

    Reply
    • That is the reason the Church is headed for schism, or rather, as Bishop Schneider and others have said, already has schism within it.

      I personally don’t think it is much different than what went on for 30 or 40 years before the Lutherans split.

      Wait for a moderately Catholic Pope and watch what happens.

      Reply
    • Let’s not confuse two issues:
      – whether someone in a state of objective mortal sin can receive the Holy Eucharist
      – whether an Orthodox not in a state of mortal can receive the Holy Eucharist in the Catholic Church.
      The first instance is a direct attack upon Almighty God, whereby Christ is brought into a soul with no sanctifying grace.
      The second one is not, any more than an Orthodox receiving the Holy Eucharist in his own Church is an attack on God. However this instance is still a wound to the Unity of the Church.
      So what Francis is proposing is indeed sacrilegious in the highest degree.

      Reply
      • “Orthodox not in a state of mortal sin” – lol spoken like a true JP2-era “conservative” Catholic. I thought this was a trad site, not a neoCath site.

        All Orthodox who refuse to be subjected to the Roman Pontiff are guilty of the objective mortal sin of schism. Check out Unam Sanctum or even Lumen Gentium if you don’t believe me. The degree to which each person is personally culpable (so whether or not it’s an actual mortal sin) is known only to God alone, but schism is an objective mortal sin.

        Likewise, adultery (“divorce and remarriage”) is an objective mortal sin, but due to each person’s individual circumstances, it may not be an actual mortal sin for each person. It must be 1) grave matter 2) committed with full knowledge of the gravity of the action and 3) done with deliberate and complete consent.

        I oppose communion for both these groups of people. My point is that where were neoCaths like Burke and Brandmüller 35 years ago? At least the latter group profess the same faith – the former group are outside the Church!

        Reply
        • “I oppose communion for both these groups of people. My point is that where were neoCaths like Burke and Brandmüller 35 years ago? At least the latter group profess the same faith – the former group are outside the Church!”

          Bingo.

          This is my problem with the glorification of these men now at the twilight of their careers.

          I’ll go one further.

          Which one has declared war on the sodomites within the clergy? Which one moved to have priest abusers handed over directly and immediately to the civil authorities for rigorous punishment? Which one is known for naming the heretics among the prelature and directly and aggressively attacking them for their heresies? How many excommunications have these men been involved with?

          See, in every single family, a strong hand is needed to lead and correct or the kids run amok and turnout to be losers, and detriments to society. They get as big or bigger than dad and they threaten him and he has zero effect on making decent people of them. The sign of a healthy family is NOT that there is no obvious exercise of discipline {as if no one is ever doing anything wrong} but rather, that there is constant and ongoing discipline in the appropriate fashion, hopefully over small things so it doesn’t need to be exercised over bigger issues.

          What does this analogy have to do with the Church? Because among actual, real people, and large numbers of them, there is always some number that are breaking the rules and getting out of hand.

          I personally believe we are led overall by bad fathers, by deadbeat dads, by weak, effeminate types who really don’t know HOW to be good fathers. And among their kids, it shows. I’ve discussed this with priests who have told me straight up they are formed to be what I guess I’d call passive and avoiding of all conflict.

          Well, around the ranch, we consider it the best practice to get a halter on the foal in the first week of its birth. Sure, 3 year olds can be broke, but it’s way easier to get them accustomed to whats “right and wrong” early on. Less broken ribs that way…

          And so it goes in the life of the Church.

          Prelates have sat around avoiding the disciplining of their charges till their charges are big, strong and unruly, and now they are all sorts of fussy about how to get the saddle on.

          OK by me if Burke and Brandmueller die in their beds, forgotten. I just am glad to see we have a few actual men who are willing to take up the Sword of the Word in defense of the faith. They, too, might be late to the party, but at least they are showing some eagerness to dance.

          Reply
  7. I just read the story of Jesus calming the storm at sea today, and felt especially drawn to meditate on the image of Jesus asleep in the boat and its applicability to our times. Now, I read this!

    On a related note, Cardinal Brandmuller is my new favorite German prelate

    Reply

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